[advocacy-discuss] Barriers to entry (was: The OpenSolaris "Attitude")

[Jim Grisanzio]

S h i v wrote:
> On 9/24/07, Jim Grisanzio <Jim.Grisanzio at sun.com> wrote:
>> S h i v wrote:
>>> Barriers reduce as the disparity in the information seen and access
>>> levels between an external person and a person within sun reduces.
>> I agree. I've experienced this myself (especially since I've moved to
>> Japan) and I tell people this internally all the time. There is still
>> entirely too much information and conversation internal to Sun. Many
>> times the issues are truly confidential and we have to live in two
>> worlds (and that's difficult, by the way) but other times it's just old
>> and familiar behavior. Sure, it's convenient to have hallway
>> conversations and con-calls, but those meetings need to be put on open
>> lists as much as possible.
>>
> 
> No Jim, it is just not convenience. Things are hazy not because of
> overwhelming info but due to lack of it in the open.


hi ...

I agree. :) In some areas I think we are remarkably open, but in others 
I think we have a ways to go. I've said this many times, so I'm not 
saying anything new here. But I think we are agreeing basically.


> And it is just not convenience. 


I meant that it's convenient for the people who may be working in the 
same location, that's all. So, if team members are grouped in the same 
location, they may have the convenience of hallway conversations but 
others in various locations in the community don't have that 
convenience. So, that's why we need to have conversations on open lists 
as much as possible. That's not just true for non-Sun community members 
to have better access to information, but it's also true for Sun 
employees who work in remote locations as well. This is just human nature.


> This is a feeling that is setting in off-late.

It's been a challenge all along, actually. But as I said, we are opening 
up unevenly and in stages, so over time this will normalize. And I think 
the movement of SCM outside will help (though some projects are already 
outside and using the system as Alan noted on indiana-discuss).


> People outside sun seem not to get a proper hang of what Indiana is.


Oh, and you think people inside Sun are any different? :) I'm only half 
kidding here, too. Seriously, Indiana represents a big change for us 
all. Sure, it's basically evolution, not revolution, but it's a big 
evolution nonetheless. Also, Indiana continues and actually elevates 
some of the conversations we've been having from time to time. So, 
naturally, there will be some -- even a lot -- of confusion around it. 
I'm not making any excuses, but I'm just pointing out that confusion is 
normal when a project the size and scope of Indiana emerges.

Also, adding to the confusion, we found out about Indian in the press, 
which was unfortunate. Although the media on Indiana has actually helped 
focus attention on OpenSolaris in a positive way, which I'm thankful 
for, it simply wasn't necessary. We should have talked about it in the 
community first and let the press come to us afterwards. In other words, 
the press should /follow/ a conversation in the community, not the other 
way around. I've spoken and written about this concept many, many times 
on these lists, in my blog, and in internal meetings. Everyone knows my 
feelings on this. A similar thing happened with OpenSolaris itself three 
and four years ago when Sun talked up the project pre-launch very 
aggressively. There was a lot of confusion out there as a result, and I 
would argue that it simply wasn't necessary. People have the best of 
intentions, but I think it's just a matter of changing the patters of 
how we work.


> But, various project teams are magically moving in a very focussed &
> co-ordinated manner to deliver on the decided milestones.
> On example:
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/indiana-discuss/2007-July/001737.html
> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=148611
> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=159334&tstart=0
> 
> Some one had suggested conary packaging system and the person from
> conary system had offered help (Matt Wilson rPath
> site:opensolaris.org), but a packaging system seems to have been
> decided without due diligence or engaging with the person who made the
> offer. (No response whatsoever for the offers!).


Well, I see conversations on the Indiana and install lists and now on 
the packaging list, and there was a bunch on the main OpenSolaris 
discuss list and I've seen Indy conversations on other lists too. I'm 
not that focused on the details of any specific packaging system, but I 
did see on the sys-admin list that this will be discussed at the Summit 
in detail. I can't offer any more than that, I'm sorry. I'm just not 
involved at that level.


> If Indiana is to deliver something of value to the community, that
> would open development, it become a true community distro. The
> technical feature set is secondary.
> I am hoping to see it happen.

Sure, I agree. But Indiana is not delivering "open development" to the 
community. Open Development has been the goal of OpenSolaris for four 
years. Some projects are already there, but the main ON development gate 
still has to move open and other things as well. It took a while for SCM 
to be specified and supported on the site, but we have that now and 
Stephen and the guys did a great job. To me, that was one of the best 
examples of a community project on opensolaris. The internal move has to 
happen first, though. And even if Indiana never happened, we'd still be 
working toward the goal of open development. Indiana will benefit from 
open development, surely, and help drive it forward and also drive it 
into new areas. Which is cool.

Jim
-- 
http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris