From al at logical-approach.com Thu Mar 1 14:38:37 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 16:38:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB March 2007 Election Message-ID: Up to now, there has not been an official announcement of the OGB elections posted to os-discuss and os-announce even though some details of the election have been posted on cab-discuss (and elsewhere). However, I realize that there are many community members who are not subscribed to cab-discuss or who probably don't read the cab-discuss archives on a regular basis. So this email is on behalf of the OGB where we'd like to announce the OGB March 2007 election and provide some basic information. If you have any follow-up questions on this announcement, please post them (preferably) to cab-discuss and we'll do our best to answer them. Currently the OGB is accepting nominations for an OGB seat - there will be 7 OGB seats available and we hope to fill them all. The nomination process is simple: a) Post an email, preferably to cab-discuss, if you wish to nominate someone for the OGB election. Self nomination is OK. b) A current Core Contributor must second your nomination. Currently Stephen Hahn, acting as the Secretary of the OGB, is the keeper of the verified contributor list - which he recently published at: (click on the tab marked "Grants") c) The nominee may accept or decline nomination, up to the deadline defined as "Election Voting Open" on the official election calendar at: The next event in the election process, is the closing of nominations on Monday March 5th at 24:00 hrs Pacific. d) The election is being held per the OpenSolaris Constitution at: Attention Voters: In order to vote in the OGB elections you must be a current Core Contributor. So please check your status as in section b) above. If you don't find yourself listed as a core contributor, you may seek core contributor status via the process outlined in section 7.8 of the Constitution. If you don't fit within the current Community/Project structure because, for example, you contribute to many different projects, you may seek core contributor status by requesting it of the OGB by sending an email with your list of contribution achievements to cab-discuss (please put "Request to be recognized as a core contributor" in the Subject field). After you've verified your member status, please read the instructions at: and get your SSH key registered sooner, rather than later. What's coming up next.... 1) We'll be testing the poll/voting infrastructure, before using it for the OGB elections, with a simple test ballot structured as a poll. We've hoping to use this test/poll to acquire some feedback from the community - so please try and participate. 2) The OGB Constitution has been ratified by Sun, but has yet to be ratified by the community. So do not be surprised when you see a separate ballot item on the OGB election asking you if you wish to ratify the Constitution. We decided to combine ratification of the Constitution with the OGB election on one poll. While this may sound like a contradiction [1] it's simply not an issue. It's common to combine items on a ballot like (silly example) "vote yes to allocate $10m in funding on a Route 70 off ramp at xyz" with another ballot item like "vote yes to build an off ramp at xyz on Route 70". 3) I'm maintaining an OGB election status page at: If you see any errors or omissions, feel free to email me directly. Notes: [1] A community member scratches his/her head and asks: "Hey we've conducting an OGB election under the terms of a Constitution which has not been (community) ratified and we're also ratifying the Constitution at the same time? How can that work?" --- Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From binarycrusader at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 06:27:22 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 06:27:22 PST Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Re: nomination In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <21613444.1172845672118.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> > Eric B wrote: > I'd also like to nominate Shawn Walker. After a brief exchange with Stephen Lau and Glynn Foster: I accept the nomination assuming that I receive a "second", and that my status as a core contributor is recognised. I would like to see more "community folks" step up to this important community role, and I would be hypocritical to not do so myself. -Shawn This message posted from opensolaris.org From dclarke at blastwave.org Fri Mar 2 06:44:28 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:44:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Re: nomination In-Reply-To: <21613444.1172845672118.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <21613444.1172845672118.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <38717.72.39.216.186.1172846668.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> >> Eric B wrote: >> I'd also like to nominate Shawn Walker. > > After a brief exchange with Stephen Lau and Glynn Foster: > > I accept the nomination assuming that I receive a "second", and that my > status as a core contributor is recognised. I would like to see more > "community folks" step up to this important community role, and I would be > hypocritical to not do so myself. I second the nomination. -- Dennis Clarke From garrett at damore.org Fri Mar 2 07:06:49 2007 From: garrett at damore.org (Garrett D'Amore) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:06:49 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] seconds... Message-ID: <45E83D89.4060306@damore.org> Briefly: I want to second the following nominations (which are not indicated as having been seconded yet): James Carlson Stephen Hahn Roland Mainz Ben Rockwood These are people that I am personally aware as having been heavily involved in Solaris, and whom I believe are passionate about it. -- Garrett From al at logical-approach.com Fri Mar 2 07:59:07 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:59:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Re: nomination In-Reply-To: <21613444.1172845672118.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <21613444.1172845672118.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Mar 2007, Shawn Walker wrote: > > Eric B wrote: > > I'd also like to nominate Shawn Walker. > > After a brief exchange with Stephen Lau and Glynn Foster: [... reformatted ...] > I accept the nomination assuming that I receive a "second", and that my You just received a second. > status as a core contributor is recognised. I would like to see more Shawn - I don't believe that there is a requirement to be recognized as a core contributor as a prerequisite to running for an OGB seat. Other OGB members will correct me, if necessary. > "community folks" step up to this important community role, and I would > be hypocritical to not do so myself. Agreed! Good man Shawn for stepping up to the plate! Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From rich.teer at rite-group.com Fri Mar 2 10:23:14 2007 From: rich.teer at rite-group.com (Rich Teer) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:23:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB Nomination Message-ID: Hi all, After much thought and careful consideration, I have decided to nominate myself for the up-coming OGB election. I am a long-term [Open]Solaris advocate, and was among the first dozen or so people to join the OpenSolaris pilot (Jim invited the Solaris Cabal to participate in the pilot sometime in September 2004 IIRC). I'm the author of the Sun Press book, Solaris Systems Programming, and numerous articles about Solaris, a Solaris developer and sys admin, and I was one of two community members elected by the Pilot participants to the inaugral CAB (Al Hopper being the other). I think it would be useful if at least one current CAB/OGB member was on the new board, if only for the sake of continuity. I don't work for Sun (though I did do some consulting for Sun UK a few years ago): I'm an independant consultant, and I've recently launched a new business called My Online Home Inventory. I've also built my own kernel. :-) -- Rich Teer, SCSA, SCNA, SCSECA, OpenSolaris CAB member CEO, My Online Home Inventory Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URLs: http://www.rite-group.com/rich http://www.myonlinehomeinventory.com From james.d.carlson at sun.com Fri Mar 2 10:29:48 2007 From: james.d.carlson at sun.com (James Carlson) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:29:48 -0500 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] OGB Nomination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17896.27932.579244.791296@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Rich Teer writes: > After much thought and careful consideration, I have decided to > nominate myself for the up-coming OGB election. I am a long-term > [Open]Solaris advocate, and was among the first dozen or so people > to join the OpenSolaris pilot (Jim invited the Solaris Cabal to > participate in the pilot sometime in September 2004 IIRC). Seconded. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From dclarke at blastwave.org Fri Mar 2 10:44:40 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:44:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] OGB Nomination In-Reply-To: <17896.27932.579244.791296@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <17896.27932.579244.791296@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <38939.72.39.216.186.1172861080.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > Rich Teer writes: >> After much thought and careful consideration, I have decided to >> nominate myself for the up-coming OGB election. I am a long-term >> [Open]Solaris advocate, and was among the first dozen or so people >> to join the OpenSolaris pilot (Jim invited the Solaris Cabal to >> participate in the pilot sometime in September 2004 IIRC). > > Seconded. > yeah but he is verbose as hell. He could have just said "I'm Rich Teer" and that would have been fine. :-) dc From rich.teer at rite-group.com Fri Mar 2 10:46:05 2007 From: rich.teer at rite-group.com (Rich Teer) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:46:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] OGB Nomination In-Reply-To: <38939.72.39.216.186.1172861080.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> References: <17896.27932.579244.791296@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <38939.72.39.216.186.1172861080.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Mar 2007, Dennis Clarke wrote: > yeah but he is verbose as hell. > > He could have just said "I'm Rich Teer" and that would have been fine. Now *THAT* was funny! LOL! -- Rich Teer, SCSA, SCNA, SCSECA, OpenSolaris CAB member CEO, My Online Home Inventory Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URLs: http://www.rite-group.com/rich http://www.myonlinehomeinventory.com From David.Comay at Sun.COM Fri Mar 2 13:23:56 2007 From: David.Comay at Sun.COM (David.Comay at Sun.COM) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:23:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Nomination Message-ID: I would like to nominate Karyn Ritter for the OpenSolaris Governing Board. I'm a Core Contributor to the Zones Community Group and strongly believe that Karyn would make an excellent representative to the OGB. Karyn was the the OpenSolaris Engineering manager at Sun from the very beginning of the project all the the way up to this past fall. She has an abundance of talent, organizational skills and the ability to look at issues in a level-headed and thoughtful way that I believe would serve the OGB and the community well in the coming term. dsc From dclarke at blastwave.org Fri Mar 2 13:52:32 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:52:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Nomination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39268.72.39.216.186.1172872352.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > I would like to nominate Karyn Ritter for the OpenSolaris Governing > Board. > > I'm a Core Contributor to the Zones Community Group and strongly > believe that Karyn would make an excellent representative to the OGB. > Karyn was the the OpenSolaris Engineering manager at Sun from the very > beginning of the project all the the way up to this past fall. She has > an abundance of talent, organizational skills and the ability to look > at issues in a level-headed and thoughtful way that I believe would > serve the OGB and the community well in the coming term. I strongly support this nomination! -- Dennis Clarke From karynritter at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 15:43:02 2007 From: karynritter at yahoo.com (Karyn Ritter) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 15:43:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Nomination In-Reply-To: <45E89FB7.2040809@sun.com> Message-ID: <594525.50527.qm@web52415.mail.yahoo.com> I accept. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [cab-discuss] Nomination Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:52:32 -0500 (EST) From: Dennis Clarke To: David.Comay at Sun.COM CC: cab-discuss at opensolaris.org References: > I would like to nominate Karyn Ritter for the OpenSolaris Governing> Board.>> I'm a Core Contributor to the Zones Community Group and strongly> believe that Karyn would make an excellent representative to the OGB.> Karyn was the the OpenSolaris Engineering manager at Sun from the very> beginning of the project all the the way up to this past fall. She has> an abundance of talent, organizational skills and the ability to look> at issues in a level-headed and thoughtful way that I believe would> serve the OGB and the community well in the coming term.I strongly support this nomination!-- Dennis Clarke_______________________________________________cab-discuss mailing listcab-discuss at opensolaris.org -- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html From binarycrusader at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 16:22:45 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 11:22:45 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Re: nomination In-Reply-To: References: <21613444.1172845672118.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: On 03/03/07, Al Hopper wrote: > > status as a core contributor is recognised. I would like to see more > > Shawn - I don't believe that there is a requirement to be recognized as a > core contributor as a prerequisite to running for an OGB seat. > > Other OGB members will correct me, if necessary. Ah, I assumed it was, since to vote, you have to have contributor status (from what I can tell). Either way then, I accept the nomination. Thanks! -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From al at logical-approach.com Fri Mar 2 17:05:08 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:05:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Nomination In-Reply-To: <594525.50527.qm@web52415.mail.yahoo.com> References: <594525.50527.qm@web52415.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Mar 2007, Karyn Ritter wrote: > I accept. Hi Karyn, You need a second from a Core Contributor before you can accept the nomination. Best of luck to you... Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Fri Mar 2 17:13:57 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 17:13:57 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Nomination In-Reply-To: References: <594525.50527.qm@web52415.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20070303011356.GA13494@sun.com> On Fri, Mar 02, 2007 at 07:05:08PM -0600, Al Hopper wrote: > Hi Karyn, > > You need a second from a Core Contributor before you can accept the > nomination. Second. -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From David.Comay at Sun.COM Fri Mar 2 17:18:18 2007 From: David.Comay at Sun.COM (David.Comay at Sun.COM) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 17:18:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Nomination In-Reply-To: References: <594525.50527.qm@web52415.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Al, > You need a second from a Core Contributor before you can accept the > nomination. I know that Keith has already provided a second but I believe that Dennis is a core contributor from the PowerPC community. dsc From al at logical-approach.com Fri Mar 2 17:35:16 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:35:16 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Nomination In-Reply-To: References: <594525.50527.qm@web52415.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 David.Comay at Sun.COM wrote: > Al, > > > You need a second from a Core Contributor before you can accept the > > nomination. > > I know that Keith has already provided a second but I believe that > Dennis is a core contributor from the PowerPC community. Yes David - I saw the email from Dennis - but saw no mention of the word "second"[1]. If this is what was intended .... I'm not trying to be a pain (honestly) ... but the process has to be able to withstand a challenge from anyone - including someone that wishes to contest the outcome of the election. No disrespect intended to you, Karyn or Keith (on indeed anyone) and I hope you don't interpret it that way. I'll get the entry updated shortly.... [1] did see the word "support". Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From al at logical-approach.com Fri Mar 2 17:39:07 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:39:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Nomination In-Reply-To: <594525.50527.qm@web52415.mail.yahoo.com> References: <594525.50527.qm@web52415.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Karyn, I listed your email address (on the election status page[1]) as karyn dot ritter at gmail dot com Is this accurate? I ask because this email came from a different address. Let me know if I need to make any corrections/updates to the election status page at: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From webmink at sun.com Sat Mar 3 05:26:41 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 13:26:41 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Re: nomination In-Reply-To: References: <21613444.1172845672118.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <85CF75C5-FFE0-4752-A9ED-F39DD0AA27EE@sun.com> On Mar 2, 2007, at 15:59, Al Hopper wrote: > Shawn - I don't believe that there is a requirement to be > recognized as a > core contributor as a prerequisite to running for an OGB seat. No, in the design of the rules we explicitly intended that this /not/ be a prerequisite so that the OGB could include any outside expert the community regarded as necessary. S. From james.d.carlson at sun.com Sat Mar 3 10:48:50 2007 From: james.d.carlson at sun.com (James Carlson) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 13:48:50 -0500 Subject: [cab-discuss] I decline [was Re: Nominations Accepted?] In-Reply-To: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> Message-ID: <17897.49938.863346.391704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Simon Phipps writes: > I've just scanned the election status page[1] and noted that although > you have each been proposed and seconded for the election to the OGB, > you are not listed as "Accepted". It may just be that your acceptance > (or declining) has been overlooked, but it would be good if you could > reply to this message (please reply to me & to CAB- > Discuss at OpenSolaris.org) with either "I accept" or "I decline" to > make the matter clear. I certainly appreciate the honor of a nomination, and I'm interested in the work of the OGB, but given that the meetings appear to be regularly scheduled at noon PST every Wednesday, and this would often conflict with PSARC meetings, I feel I must decline. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From cyril.plisko at mountall.com Sat Mar 3 11:02:56 2007 From: cyril.plisko at mountall.com (Cyril Plisko) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 21:02:56 +0200 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: nomination In-Reply-To: <45E3584D.2020500@cuddletech.com> References: <45D3A294.9080305@sun.com> <45D3E43B.5040305@tadpole.com> <45E3584D.2020500@cuddletech.com> Message-ID: CAB and others, First of all I'd like to thank Eric Boutilier and Ben Rockwood, who nominated and seconded me. Unfortunately given my current commitments I have to respectfully decline. May be next time. -- Regards, Cyril From Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com Sat Mar 3 11:24:43 2007 From: Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com (Alan DuBoff) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 11:24:43 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Nominations Accepted? In-Reply-To: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> Message-ID: <200703031124.43336.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> On Saturday 03 March 2007 05:17 am, Simon Phipps wrote: > James/Alan/Casper/Alan/Stephen/J?rgen/Richard/Roland/J?rg, > > I've just scanned the election status page[1] and noted that although > you have each been proposed and seconded for the election to the OGB, > you are not listed as "Accepted". It may just be that your acceptance > (or declining) has been overlooked, but it would be good if you could > reply to this message (please reply to me & to CAB- > Discuss at OpenSolaris.org) with either "I accept" or "I decline" to > make the matter clear. > > Nominations close midnight Monday PST (08:00 Tuesday UTC) so you > should reply by return please. > > S. > > [1] http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ I didn't know I was nominated...:-/ Go ahead, toss me in the ring, I'll accept. -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group Advocate of insourcing at Sun - hire people that care about our company! From richlowe at richlowe.net Sat Mar 3 12:34:45 2007 From: richlowe at richlowe.net (Richard Lowe) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 15:34:45 -0500 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Nominations Accepted? In-Reply-To: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> Message-ID: <45E9DBE5.8050300@richlowe.net> Simon Phipps wrote: > I've just scanned the election status page[1] and noted that although > you have each been proposed and seconded for the election to the OGB, > you are not listed as "Accepted". It may just be that your acceptance > (or declining) has been overlooked, but it would be good if you could > reply to this message (please reply to me & to > CAB-Discuss at OpenSolaris.org) with either "I accept" or "I decline" to > make the matter clear. > I respectfully decline, While I want to see the project succeed, I'm not the right person to make it do so on this level. -- Rich From karynritter at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 18:00:30 2007 From: karynritter at yahoo.com (Karyn Ritter) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 18:00:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Nomination In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <844819.55725.qm@web52407.mail.yahoo.com> You're listing the right one. Sending mail from this account was just to work around another problem. - Karyn --- Al Hopper wrote: > > Hi Karyn, > > I listed your email address (on the election status page[1]) as > > karyn dot ritter at gmail dot com > > Is this accurate? I ask because this email came from a different address. > Let me know if I need to make any corrections/updates to the election > status page at: > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ > > Regards, > > Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com > Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT > OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 > OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited From webmink at sun.com Sat Mar 3 05:17:02 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 13:17:02 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Nominations Accepted? Message-ID: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> James/Alan/Casper/Alan/Stephen/J?rgen/Richard/Roland/J?rg, I've just scanned the election status page[1] and noted that although you have each been proposed and seconded for the election to the OGB, you are not listed as "Accepted". It may just be that your acceptance (or declining) has been overlooked, but it would be good if you could reply to this message (please reply to me & to CAB- Discuss at OpenSolaris.org) with either "I accept" or "I decline" to make the matter clear. Nominations close midnight Monday PST (08:00 Tuesday UTC) so you should reply by return please. S. [1] http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Sun Mar 4 12:13:46 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 09:13:46 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] I decline [was Re: Nominations Accepted?] In-Reply-To: <17897.49938.863346.391704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> <17897.49938.863346.391704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <45EB287A.1010006@sun.com> Hey, James Carlson wrote: > Simon Phipps writes: >> I've just scanned the election status page[1] and noted that although >> you have each been proposed and seconded for the election to the OGB, >> you are not listed as "Accepted". It may just be that your acceptance >> (or declining) has been overlooked, but it would be good if you could >> reply to this message (please reply to me & to CAB- >> Discuss at OpenSolaris.org) with either "I accept" or "I decline" to >> make the matter clear. > > I certainly appreciate the honor of a nomination, and I'm interested > in the work of the OGB, but given that the meetings appear to be > regularly scheduled at noon PST every Wednesday, and this would often > conflict with PSARC meetings, I feel I must decline. I don't think you can make that assumption. Just because there was a suitable time for the previous OGB doesn't necessarily mean that it will suit the upcoming board. I would also assume that the new board will come to a consensus of when to have meetings that suits everyone. Glynn From James.McPherson at Sun.COM Sun Mar 4 13:04:55 2007 From: James.McPherson at Sun.COM (James C. McPherson) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:04:55 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] I decline [was Re: Nominations Accepted?] In-Reply-To: <45EB287A.1010006@sun.com> References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> <17897.49938.863346.391704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <45EB287A.1010006@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EB3477.7050305@Sun.COM> Glynn Foster wrote: > James Carlson wrote: >> Simon Phipps writes: >>> I've just scanned the election status page[1] and noted that although >>> you have each been proposed and seconded for the election to the OGB, >>> you are not listed as "Accepted". It may just be that your acceptance >>> (or declining) has been overlooked, but it would be good if you could >>> reply to this message (please reply to me & to CAB- >>> Discuss at OpenSolaris.org) with either "I accept" or "I decline" to >>> make the matter clear. >> I certainly appreciate the honor of a nomination, and I'm interested >> in the work of the OGB, but given that the meetings appear to be >> regularly scheduled at noon PST every Wednesday, and this would often >> conflict with PSARC meetings, I feel I must decline. > > I don't think you can make that assumption. Just because there was a suitable > time for the previous OGB doesn't necessarily mean that it will suit the > upcoming board. I would also assume that the new board will come to a consensus > of when to have meetings that suits everyone. Agreed. There are less globally obnoxious times to have meetings scheduled, and the new OGB will need to arrive at its own consensus about what is convenient. The current CAB has members based in the USA, Holland and Germany - a spread of 8 hours. There are candidates for OGB who are in New Zealand, eastern Australia and Singapore. This extends the spread of hours to cover a range of 18 hours. James C. McPherson -- Solaris kernel software engineer Sun Microsystems From Casper.Dik at Sun.COM Sun Mar 4 13:22:20 2007 From: Casper.Dik at Sun.COM (Casper.Dik at Sun.COM) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 22:22:20 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] I decline [was Re: Nominations Accepted?] In-Reply-To: <45EB3477.7050305@Sun.COM> References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> <17897.49938.863346.391704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <45EB287A.1010006@sun.com> <45EB3477.7050305@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <200703042122.l24LMaZe007951@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> >Agreed. There are less globally obnoxious times to have >meetings scheduled, and the new OGB will need to arrive >at its own consensus about what is convenient. > >The current CAB has members based in the USA, Holland >and Germany - a spread of 8 hours. There are candidates >for OGB who are in New Zealand, eastern Australia and >Singapore. This extends the spread of hours to cover a >range of 18 hours. Sure; a new OGB comes with a new meeting slot; the current slot should not keep people from being (re)elected. Also, I would expect OGB meetings to be an exception and not the norm. Casper From al at logical-approach.com Sun Mar 4 13:23:56 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 15:23:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] I decline [was Re: Nominations Accepted?] In-Reply-To: <45EB3477.7050305@Sun.COM> References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> <17897.49938.863346.391704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <45EB287A.1010006@sun.com> <45EB3477.7050305@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, James C. McPherson wrote: > Glynn Foster wrote: > > James Carlson wrote: > >> Simon Phipps writes: > >>> I've just scanned the election status page[1] and noted that although > >>> you have each been proposed and seconded for the election to the OGB, > >>> you are not listed as "Accepted". It may just be that your acceptance > >>> (or declining) has been overlooked, but it would be good if you could > >>> reply to this message (please reply to me & to CAB- > >>> Discuss at OpenSolaris.org) with either "I accept" or "I decline" to > >>> make the matter clear. > >> I certainly appreciate the honor of a nomination, and I'm interested > >> in the work of the OGB, but given that the meetings appear to be > >> regularly scheduled at noon PST every Wednesday, and this would often > >> conflict with PSARC meetings, I feel I must decline. > > > > I don't think you can make that assumption. Just because there was a suitable > > time for the previous OGB doesn't necessarily mean that it will suit the > > upcoming board. I would also assume that the new board will come to a consensus > > of when to have meetings that suits everyone. > > > Agreed. There are less globally obnoxious times to have > meetings scheduled, and the new OGB will need to arrive > at its own consensus about what is convenient. > > The current CAB has members based in the USA, Holland ^^^ Correction: There is no CAB since the Charter was approved on Feb 10th 2006. See ref [1]. At that time, all CAB members became OGB members. [2] And yes - we probably should have dumped the cab-discuss mailing list the same day! > and Germany - a spread of 8 hours. There are candidates > for OGB who are in New Zealand, eastern Australia and > Singapore. This extends the spread of hours to cover a > range of 18 hours. Personally James, I was disappointed to see your response which I'll paraphrase (my intrepretation) as "I can't do the important work of the OGB because their current preferred meeting time co-incides with one of my current meeting obligations". If you honestly consider the work important, a meeting conflict would simply not be a barrier. [1] http://opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/charter/ [2] Hint: see my .signature below Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From James.McPherson at Sun.COM Sun Mar 4 13:30:05 2007 From: James.McPherson at Sun.COM (James C. McPherson) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:30:05 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] I decline [was Re: Nominations Accepted?] In-Reply-To: References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> <17897.49938.863346.391704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <45EB287A.1010006@sun.com> <45EB3477.7050305@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <45EB3A5D.2000107@Sun.COM> Al Hopper wrote: > On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, James C. McPherson wrote: ... >> The current CAB has members based in the USA, Holland > ^^^ > Correction: There is no CAB since the Charter was approved on Feb 10th > 2006. See ref [1]. At that time, all CAB members became OGB members. [2] > And yes - we probably should have dumped the cab-discuss mailing list the > same day! At this hour of the day and pre-coffee ... a minor quibble :-) >> and Germany - a spread of 8 hours. There are candidates >> for OGB who are in New Zealand, eastern Australia and >> Singapore. This extends the spread of hours to cover a >> range of 18 hours. > > Personally James, I was disappointed to see your response which I'll > paraphrase (my intrepretation) as "I can't do the important work of the > OGB because their current preferred meeting time co-incides with one of my > current meeting obligations". If you honestly consider the work > important, a meeting conflict would simply not be a barrier. I do hope you meant James Carlson .... James C. McPherson -- Solaris kernel software engineer Sun Microsystems From al at logical-approach.com Sun Mar 4 13:43:49 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 15:43:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] I decline [was Re: Nominations Accepted?] In-Reply-To: <45EB3A5D.2000107@Sun.COM> References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> <17897.49938.863346.391704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <45EB287A.1010006@sun.com> <45EB3477.7050305@Sun.COM> <45EB3A5D.2000107@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, James C. McPherson wrote: > Al Hopper wrote: > > On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, James C. McPherson wrote: > ... > >> The current CAB has members based in the USA, Holland > > ^^^ > > Correction: There is no CAB since the Charter was approved on Feb 10th > > 2006. See ref [1]. At that time, all CAB members became OGB members. [2] > > And yes - we probably should have dumped the cab-discuss mailing list the > > same day! > > At this hour of the day and pre-coffee ... a minor quibble :-) Not really - a common basic technical error and not one that should be made by someone running for an OGB seat. The most basic required "homework" is to read the Charter and the Constitution. > >> and Germany - a spread of 8 hours. There are candidates > >> for OGB who are in New Zealand, eastern Australia and > >> Singapore. This extends the spread of hours to cover a > >> range of 18 hours. > > > > Personally James, I was disappointed to see your response which I'll > > paraphrase (my intrepretation) as "I can't do the important work of the > > OGB because their current preferred meeting time co-incides with one of my > > current meeting obligations". If you honestly consider the work > > important, a meeting conflict would simply not be a barrier. > > I do hope you meant James Carlson .... Yes - I was referring to James Carlsons declination of the nomination - Sorry James C. McPherson - I should have removed your name from the To: in the outgoing email and spelled out James Carlsons name in full. Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From James.McPherson at Sun.COM Sun Mar 4 13:55:34 2007 From: James.McPherson at Sun.COM (James C. McPherson) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:55:34 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] I decline [was Re: Nominations Accepted?] In-Reply-To: References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> <17897.49938.863346.391704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <45EB287A.1010006@sun.com> <45EB3477.7050305@Sun.COM> <45EB3A5D.2000107@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <45EB4056.70004@Sun.COM> Al Hopper wrote: > On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, James C. McPherson wrote: >> Al Hopper wrote: >>> On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, James C. McPherson wrote: >> ... >>>> The current CAB has members based in the USA, Holland >>> ^^^ >>> Correction: There is no CAB since the Charter was approved on Feb 10th >>> 2006. See ref [1]. At that time, all CAB members became OGB members. [2] >>> And yes - we probably should have dumped the cab-discuss mailing list the >>> same day! >> At this hour of the day and pre-coffee ... a minor quibble :-) > > Not really - a common basic technical error and not one that should be > made by someone running for an OGB seat. The most basic required > "homework" is to read the Charter and the Constitution. A fair point. James C. McPherson -- Solaris kernel software engineer Sun Microsystems From dclarke at blastwave.org Sun Mar 4 19:48:38 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:48:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Nomination In-Reply-To: References: <594525.50527.qm@web52415.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43149.72.39.216.186.1173066518.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 David.Comay at Sun.COM wrote: > >> Al, >> >> > You need a second from a Core Contributor before you can accept the >> > nomination. >> >> I know that Keith has already provided a second but I believe that >> Dennis is a core contributor from the PowerPC community. > > Yes David - I saw the email from Dennis - but saw no mention of the word > "second"[1]. If this is what was intended .... I'm sorry that I was not precise in my usage of terms there. *** I second the nomination for Karyn Ritter. *** I am sincerely impressed by her qualifications and achievements in the world of software engineering. We as a community would do very well to have her voice on the OGB. - Dennis Clarke From David.Comay at Sun.COM Sun Mar 4 20:38:15 2007 From: David.Comay at Sun.COM (David.Comay at Sun.COM) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 20:38:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: nomination In-Reply-To: References: <45D3A294.9080305@sun.com> <45D3E43B.5040305@tadpole.com> Message-ID: > In addition, several other OpenSolaris community members come to mind, who, > to my knowledge, have been very involved, productive, and helpful. > Therefore, I'd like to nominate the following: > Mike Gerdts I second this nomination for the OpenSolaris Governing Board. dsc From dclarke at blastwave.org Sun Mar 4 22:02:21 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 01:02:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Nomination of John J. McLaughlin for OpenSolaris Governing Board Message-ID: <43455.72.39.216.186.1173074541.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I, Dennis Clarke, am a Core Contributor to the PowerPC Community and I strongly believe that John J. McLaughlin would make an excellent addition to the OGB. I first spoke with John in late 2004 while he was researching some software provided by Blastwave. We spoke for quite some time and I then came to realize that this was someone that had been around in the UNIX world forever. I wanted to do some research and then briefly write here what I know about John McLaughlin and after speaking with him he has accepted the idea of working within the OpenSolaris Governing Board. We would be a stronger community if we had someone with John's experience on the OGB. Please let me share what I know here. John has been a UNIX user, developer, administrator and evangelist for 26 years. That is not a typo. That is over two and a half decades. John was a Systems Engineer for Sun in Florida for 15 years from 1987 up to 2002. Back in 1988 he began a newsletter service for Sun customers which was distributed via UUCP. This was before the web browser existed and before the "internet" was a common word. John was first Vice President and then eventually President of the Sun User Group (SUG) at a time when the User Group was "divorced" from Sun in the mid 90's. In 1998, John joined local entrepreneur Dante DeAngelis to create System News, Inc. in Coral Springs, FL. Back then System News provided a newsletter service for Sun Resellers as so few Resellers were producing their own newsletters. In 2002, John accepted the position of CTO and Editor-in-Chief at SNI. He expanded the coverage and evolved the technology from monthly print to weekly, dynamic HTML/PDF/text and Web portal. In 2002, Sun signed a master services agreement with SNI and a number of Sun sales teams started using the "SunFlash" program. John has evolved SNI's offering from a simple newsletter service to an ASP system that provides communications, content, participation (wikis, blogs, forums), calls-to-action, and customer relationship management for sales teams and their management. Starting in 2004, John created a "hub" for people involved with Sun within the http://www.Linkedin.com on-line business networking service. John has nearly ten thousand people connected to his name in one way or another! Most are involved with Sun - Senior Sun Management, employees, ex-Sun employees, Sun Resellers, members of the press or analysts. John has been promoting OpenSolaris in "System News" since early 2005. In early 2006, John became a principle consultant and Sun specialist for Forsythe Solution Group, one of Sun Microsystems' largest Partners. John has taken the lead in forming Open Solaris User Groups in Florida at Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, and Orlando. Previously I asked Jim Grisanzio if he would consider a position on the OGB and I was happy that he accepted. I don't think that Jim Grisanzio will ever build his own kernel and boot and run with it. I do know that I want strong leaders and people with a vast depth of character on the OGB. I don't know if John has built a kernel either. But I know a leader when I see one and I am both happy and proud to nominate John J. McLaughlin to the future OpenSolaris Governing Board. Dennis Clarke Director Blastwave.org http://www.blastwave.org/ ~ ~ ~ "jjm.txt" 62 lines, 3304 characters From webmink at sun.com Mon Mar 5 04:14:52 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 12:14:52 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Last Day for Nominations Message-ID: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> Nominations for the forthcoming election to the OpenSolaris Governing Board close at the end of today, Monday March 5th, Pacific Time. You can see the status of the election at http://www.opensolaris.org/os/ community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ where you will note that a number of candidates still await seconds or acceptance of their nomination. The page is updated during Al Hopper's waking hours, since he is using a file upload rather than collaborative wiki editing due to the complexity of the table, so it may lag slightly. IF YOU EXPECT TO BE A CANDIDATE, PLEASE CHECK THIS PAGE! The following candidates do not appear to have not been seconded by a Core Contributor: Dennis Clarke Ian Collins Jens Elkner Eric Enright Mike Gerdts Rainer Heilke John J. McLaughlin Jeremy Teo If you wish to second these nominations, please write to cab- discuss at opensolaris.org straight away. None of these candidates appear to have accepted their nomination. In addition, neither have: Alan Coopersmith Casper Dik Stephen Hahn Roland Mainz Joerg Schilling Candidates who wish to accept their nomination should write to cab- discuss at opensolaris.org immediately with a message that includes the phrase "I accept" in a suitable context. Candidates who wish to decline their nomination may write to cab- discuss at opensolaris.org with a message that includes the phrase "I decline" in a suitable context. Right now there are twelve candidates who will be in the ballot. Those candidates should prepare a short bio somewhere on the web, plus a statement of their reasons for wanting to be elected, and send the URL of each statement to cab-discuss at opensolaris.org Regards Simon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Casper.Dik at sun.com Mon Mar 5 04:23:42 2007 From: Casper.Dik at sun.com (Casper.Dik at sun.com) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:23:42 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> Message-ID: <200703051223.l25CNwHr006049@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> >None of these candidates appear to have accepted their nomination. In >addition, neither have: > >Alan Coopersmith >Casper Dik >Stephen Hahn >Roland Mainz >Joerg Schilling I hereby accept the nomination. Casper From John.Plocher at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 04:34:41 2007 From: John.Plocher at Sun.COM (John Plocher) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:04:41 +0530 Subject: [cab-discuss] Seconding OGB nominations Message-ID: <45EC0E61.2050805@Sun.Com> I second Dennis Clarke's and Casper Dik's nominations. In addition, if they accept their nominations later today, I also second the nominations for Alan Coopersmith Stephen Hahn Roland Mainz Joerg Schilling -John (ARC Community core member) from India From Darren.Moffat at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 04:36:58 2007 From: Darren.Moffat at Sun.COM (Darren J Moffat) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 12:36:58 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EC0EEA.4010504@Sun.COM> Simon Phipps wrote: > Nominations for the forthcoming election to the OpenSolaris Governing > Board close at the end of today, Monday March 5th, Pacific Time. You > can see the status of the election at > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ where > you will note that a number of candidates still await seconds or > acceptance of their nomination. The page is updated during Al Hopper's > waking hours, since he is using a file upload rather than collaborative > wiki editing due to the complexity of the table, so it may lag slightly. > > IF YOU EXPECT TO BE A CANDIDATE, PLEASE CHECK THIS PAGE! > > The following candidates do not appear to have not been seconded by a > Core Contributor: > > Dennis Clarke Seconded. -- Darren J Moffat From james.d.carlson at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 05:27:27 2007 From: james.d.carlson at Sun.COM (James Carlson) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:27:27 -0500 Subject: I'll reconsider [was Re: [cab-discuss] I decline [was Re: Nominations Accepted?]] In-Reply-To: <45EB3477.7050305@Sun.COM> References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> <17897.49938.863346.391704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <45EB287A.1010006@sun.com> <45EB3477.7050305@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <17900.6847.291328.338116@gargle.gargle.HOWL> James C. McPherson writes: > Agreed. There are less globally obnoxious times to have > meetings scheduled, and the new OGB will need to arrive > at its own consensus about what is convenient. If there's a reasonable chance that it's not going to overlap with PSARC, then I'll reconsider and accept the nomination (if it's not too late to do so). I can certainly bail out of any of my other regularly scheduled meetings, if that's necessary, but not PSARC. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From al at logical-approach.com Mon Mar 5 06:22:36 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:22:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: I'll reconsider [was Re: [cab-discuss] I decline [was Re: Nominations Accepted?]] In-Reply-To: <17900.6847.291328.338116@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> <17897.49938.863346.391704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <45EB287A.1010006@sun.com> <45EB3477.7050305@Sun.COM> <17900.6847.291328.338116@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, James Carlson wrote: > James C. McPherson writes: > > Agreed. There are less globally obnoxious times to have > > meetings scheduled, and the new OGB will need to arrive > > at its own consensus about what is convenient. > > If there's a reasonable chance that it's not going to overlap with > PSARC, then I'll reconsider and accept the nomination (if it's not too > late to do so). > > I can certainly bail out of any of my other regularly scheduled > meetings, if that's necessary, but not PSARC. I'll record this a an "I accept" unless told otherwise. It's either "accept" or "decline" ... there's no concept of conditional acceptance. Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From mb1x at gmx.com Mon Mar 5 06:35:35 2007 From: mb1x at gmx.com (Martin Bochnig) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 06:35:35 PST Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: recognized as a core contributor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <10923920.1173105398287.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> +1 I can confirm each single word from my own (qemu related) experience with Juergen Keil. You could also say "JuergenKeilSolvesIT" [T.M.] If you ever experience a serious kernel-, driver- and/or hardware related problem, go to Juergen Keil. I strongly join Al Hopper's words and support his nomination. Martin This message posted from opensolaris.org From james.d.carlson at sun.com Mon Mar 5 06:41:37 2007 From: james.d.carlson at sun.com (James Carlson) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:41:37 -0500 Subject: I'll reconsider [was Re: [cab-discuss] I decline [was Re: Nominations Accepted?]] In-Reply-To: References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> <17897.49938.863346.391704@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <45EB287A.1010006@sun.com> <45EB3477.7050305@Sun.COM> <17900.6847.291328.338116@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <17900.11297.786585.228462@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Al Hopper writes: > I'll record this a an "I accept" unless told otherwise. > It's either "accept" or "decline" ... there's no concept of conditional > acceptance. OK. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From mb1x at gmx.com Mon Mar 5 06:55:57 2007 From: mb1x at gmx.com (Martin Bochnig) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 06:55:57 PST Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Jim Grisanzio for Governing Board In-Reply-To: <32856.72.39.216.186.1171984955.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: <24233021.1173106768028.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Dennis Clarke once again found a beautiful wording for something, I could not easily have expressed so well (given, that I'm not a native speaker [of English]). I just met Jim Grisanzio on osdevcon2007 here in Berlin. And believe me one thing: Jim is a team player. A team motivator. A coach and true leader. He is gifted in dealing with people. He doesn't work for $$$ per hour. He is working for OpenSolaris! Able and willing to go the extra mile. I would like to see him becoming part/member of cab/ogb, because I like OpenSolaris and want only the best for the project. Martin This message posted from opensolaris.org From mb1x at gmx.com Mon Mar 5 07:53:20 2007 From: mb1x at gmx.com (Martin Bochnig) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:53:20 PST Subject: [cab-discuss] Nominating ... Message-ID: <29951013.1173110087114.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> ... I would like to nominate the following excellent minds for election into the OpenSolaris Governing Board OGB (alphabetic order) Alan Coopersmith Jim Grisanzio Joerg Schilling Juergen Keil Rich Teer Roland Mainz I actually also wanted to vote for Al Hopper, but he has decided not to seek re-election (which IMO is a loss for the project). Partial explanations on _why_ I have decided that way can be found here: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=24583&tstart=0 http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=24839&tstart=0 Marginally different (other context), and yet equally weighted (equivalent) argumentation applies to the other candidates I am proposing above. Martin -- Martin Bochnig http://www.martux.org/RELEASES/x86_and_x64/DVD/ (sparc version is totally obsolete, use not recommended!!) This message posted from opensolaris.org From webmink at sun.com Mon Mar 5 08:07:37 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 16:07:37 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Nominating ... In-Reply-To: <29951013.1173110087114.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <29951013.1173110087114.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: On Mar 5, 2007, at 15:53, Martin Bochnig wrote: > ... > > I would like to nominate the following excellent minds for election > into the OpenSolaris Governing Board OGB > > (alphabetic order) > > Alan Coopersmith > Jim Grisanzio > Joerg Schilling > Juergen Keil > Rich Teer > Roland Mainz All of those people have already been nominated - please see http:// www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ for details. S. From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Mon Mar 5 08:14:03 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:14:03 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EC41CB.3090306@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > None of these candidates appear to have accepted their nomination. In > addition, neither have: > > Alan Coopersmith I accept. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From mb1x at gmx.com Mon Mar 5 08:16:48 2007 From: mb1x at gmx.com (Martin Bochnig) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:16:48 PST Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Nominating ... In-Reply-To: <29951013.1173110087114.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <30291950.1173111469088.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Some helpful reader wrote: > >Hi Martin, > >Those folks have already been nominated. See the status page at: > >http://opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ > Hi! Arghh, ouch. Mmmh. You mean I didn't want to nominate them, but rather wanted to _elect_ them?? How and where?? Sorry, I didn't read all pre-history threads because my systems had been down last week (for almost 8 consecutive days, more or less). Sorry for the confusion and thanks for correcting me, Martin This message posted from opensolaris.org From al at logical-approach.com Mon Mar 5 08:34:30 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:34:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Nominating ... In-Reply-To: <30291950.1173111469088.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <30291950.1173111469088.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Martin Bochnig wrote: > Some helpful reader wrote: > > > > >Hi Martin, > > > >Those folks have already been nominated. See the status page at: > > > >http://opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ > > > > Hi! > > Arghh, ouch. > Mmmh. > > You mean I didn't want to nominate them, but rather wanted to _elect_ them?? > How and where?? > > > Sorry, I didn't read all pre-history threads because my systems had been down last week (for almost 8 consecutive days, more or less). > > Sorry for the confusion and thanks for correcting me, > Martin Martin - here's a copy of last weeks announcement. I'll CC it to cab-discuss also - in case someone else missed it: ----------- Subject: OGB March 2007 Election Up to now, there has not been an official announcement of the OGB elections posted to os-discuss and os-announce even though some details of the election have been posted on cab-discuss (and elsewhere). However, I realize that there are many community members who are not subscribed to cab-discuss or who probably don't read the cab-discuss archives on a regular basis. So this email is on behalf of the OGB where we'd like to announce the OGB March 2007 election and provide some basic information. If you have any follow-up questions on this announcement, please post them (preferably) to cab-discuss and we'll do our best to answer them. Currently the OGB is accepting nominations for an OGB seat - there will be 7 OGB seats available and we hope to fill them all. The nomination process is simple: a) Post an email, preferably to cab-discuss, if you wish to nominate someone for the OGB election. Self nomination is OK. b) A current Core Contributor must second your nomination. Currently Stephen Hahn, acting as the Secretary of the OGB, is the keeper of the verified contributor list - which he recently published at: (click on the tab marked "Grants") c) The nominee may accept or decline nomination, up to the deadline defined as "Election Voting Open" on the official election calendar at: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/#electioncalendar The next event in the election process, is the closing of nominations on Monday March 5th at 24:00 hrs Pacific. d) The election is being held per the OpenSolaris Constitution at: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/governance/ Attention Voters: In order to vote in the OGB elections you must be a current Core Contributor. So please check your status as in section b) above. If you don't find yourself listed as a core contributor, you may seek core contributor status via the process outlined in section 7.8 of the Constitution. If you don't fit within the current Community/Project structure because, for example, you contribute to many different projects, you may seek core contributor status by requesting it of the OGB by sending an email with your list of contribution achievements to cab-discuss (please put "Request to be recognized as a core contributor" in the Subject field). After you've verified your member status, please read the instructions at: and get your SSH key registered sooner, rather than later. What's coming up next.... 1) We'll be testing the poll/voting infrastructure, before using it for the OGB elections, with a simple test ballot structured as a poll. We've hoping to use this test/poll to acquire some feedback from the community - so please try and participate. 2) The OGB Constitution has been ratified by Sun, but has yet to be ratified by the community. So do not be surprised when you see a separate ballot item on the OGB election asking you if you wish to ratify the Constitution. We decided to combine ratification of the Constitution with the OGB election on one poll. While this may sound like a contradiction [1] it's simply not an issue. It's common to combine items on a ballot like (silly example) "vote yes to allocate $10m in funding on a Route 70 off ramp at xyz" with another ballot item like "vote yes to build an off ramp at xyz on Route 70". 3) I'm maintaining an OGB election status page at: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ If you see any errors or omissions, feel free to email me directly. Notes: [1] A community member scratches his/her head and asks: "Hey we've conducting an OGB election under the terms of a Constitution which has not been (community) ratified and we're also ratifying the Constitution at the same time? How can that work?" --- Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From mb1x at gmx.com Mon Mar 5 08:37:38 2007 From: mb1x at gmx.com (Martin Bochnig) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:37:38 PST Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Nominating ... In-Reply-To: <30291950.1173111469088.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <13810296.1173112736108.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> I had been aware of http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/. What I (temporarily) did confuse is "to nominate" versus "to elect". Sorry for my error and the resulting confusion. Thanks for correcting me. Could you please accept my proposed list of names in terms of "to elect" now? Please let me know what else I will have to do. I don't currently have the time to read the whole cab-discuss archive, I'm out in 20 minutes) Thanks. M. (sorry for cross-posting, but as I had cross-posted my initial [wrong] mail, I also feel responsible for posting the correction into the same channels) This message posted from opensolaris.org From holger.s.berger at googlemail.com Mon Mar 5 09:37:58 2007 From: holger.s.berger at googlemail.com (Holger Berger) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 18:37:58 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Nominating Roland Mainz for OGB Message-ID: I would like to nominate Roland Mainz as a candidate for the OGB. Roland has been extremely enthusiastic in pushing Opensolaris development forward with a great heart for students and plain users, he has been enthusiastic in promoting Solaris since years and he did even take on ksh93 when it was considered 'impossible' to convince Sun to introduce ksh93 - but somehow Roland Mainz managed to get ksh93 into Solaris. I believe Roland will make an excellent board member. Holger From mb1x at gmx.com Mon Mar 5 09:35:20 2007 From: mb1x at gmx.com (Martin Bochnig) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 09:35:20 PST Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> Message-ID: <15396851.1173116480254.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> According to ""d) The election is being held per the OpenSolaris Constitution at: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/governance/ Attention Voters: In order to vote in the OGB elections you must be a current Core Contributor. So please check your status at (click on the tab marked "Grants")"" I will be _unable_ to vote, so I am sorry for all the noise. While I am listed as (non-core-)contributor (to the PowerPC community), my main activities (Xorg at sparc, www.martux.org and http://opensolaris.org/os/project/qemu/leaders/) don't seem to count. So I am by no means a "core contributor" - okay. But someone who once did xyz IS ?? (I could name examples, but don't dare to) At least do you now know, whom i _would_ have elected, if asked. Thank you. This message posted from opensolaris.org From Simon.Phipps at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 09:41:40 2007 From: Simon.Phipps at Sun.COM (Simon Phipps) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:41:40 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Nominating Roland Mainz for OGB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Holger. Roland has already been nominated and seconded but has not yet accepted the nomination; he needs to do so today. S. On Mar 5, 2007, at 17:37, Holger Berger wrote: > I would like to nominate Roland Mainz as a candidate for the OGB. > Roland has been extremely enthusiastic in pushing Opensolaris > development forward with a great heart for students and plain users, > he has been enthusiastic in promoting Solaris since years and he did > even take on ksh93 when it was considered 'impossible' to convince Sun > to introduce ksh93 - but somehow Roland Mainz managed to get ksh93 > into Solaris. I believe Roland will make an excellent board member. > > Holger > _______________________________________________ > cab-discuss mailing list > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2494 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rich.teer at rite-group.com Mon Mar 5 09:45:02 2007 From: rich.teer at rite-group.com (Rich Teer) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 09:45:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question Message-ID: Hi all, Simon's recent last-day reminder prompts this question from me: how are we going to handle the situation where someone has been duly nominated and seconded, but has neither declined nor accepted? FWIW, my feelings are that we should take silence as dissent (i.e., a declination). The reason for this is that it is otherwise conceivable that someone might get elected who really is unable (for whatever reason) to do the job, which would be an awkward situation at best. What does everyone else think? -- Rich Teer, SCSA, SCNA, SCSECA, OpenSolaris CAB member CEO, My Online Home Inventory Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URLs: http://www.rite-group.com/rich http://www.myonlinehomeinventory.com From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Mon Mar 5 10:02:32 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 10:02:32 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> Martin Bochnig wrote: > While I am listed as (non-core-)contributor (to the PowerPC community), my main activities (Xorg at sparc, www.martux.org and http://opensolaris.org/os/project/qemu/leaders/) don't seem to count. > So I am by no means a "core contributor" - okay. The system for choosing core contributors is notably flawed in that it only recognizes people working with Communities, not Projects or distros. (For instance, Roland wasn't initially listed because ksh93 is a Project, not a Community, and hasn't been affiliated with any Community groups, yet he's one of the biggest contributors in reality. Similarly, is your qemu project affiliated with any community? If so, ask the leaders of that community why you weren't included.) For Xorg on sparc, I didn't list you because you have not yet contributed anything to the X Community - but I was also very unsure who to list when I generated the list of Core Contributors. I'm sure once we get going on integrating your work into the X Community, you'll count as a Core Contributor for X in the future, but my understanding was Contributor status was supposed to reflect past results, not future plans. For your work on martux though, I think you would easily qualify for one of the "Contributor at Large" spots, by mailing cab-discuss to request such status. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 10:14:21 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 12:14:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> Message-ID: Alan Coopersmith wrote: > > Martin Bochnig wrote: >> ... > ... > > For your work on martux though, I think you would easily qualify for > one of the "Contributor at Large" spots, by mailing cab-discuss to > request such status. +1 From al at logical-approach.com Mon Mar 5 10:14:18 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:14:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Rich Teer wrote: > Hi all, > > Simon's recent last-day reminder prompts this question from me: > how are we going to handle the situation where someone has been > duly nominated and seconded, but has neither declined nor accepted? > > FWIW, my feelings are that we should take silence as dissent (i.e., > a declination). The reason for this is that it is otherwise > conceivable that someone might get elected who really is unable > (for whatever reason) to do the job, which would be an awkward > situation at best. > > What does everyone else think? Actually I think that candidates would be able to Decline nomination right up until the ballot is prepared just before "Election Voting Open" (in the election timetable calendar). If they were not listed as Accepted at that time, they would not appear on the ballot. For example, a candidate might initially accept the nomination, get annoyed at something/someone during the campaigning period and then decline before election voting began. Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Mon Mar 5 10:20:12 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:20:12 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 10:02:32AM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > The system for choosing core contributors is notably flawed in that > it only recognizes people working with Communities, not Projects or > distros. (For instance, Roland wasn't initially listed because This is not a flaw in the process but a flaw in the leadership of the various Communities which should be following more closely the various Projects which are or should be relevant to their areas of interest. > ksh93 is a Project, not a Community, and hasn't been affiliated with > any Community groups, yet he's one of the biggest contributors in That's the defect - I'd like to know why the System Administration Community, to name but one obvious example, has endorsed other projects but not that one (it's their prerogative to make that choice, but it seems as likely as not that it represents ignorance or incompleteness rather than a conscious choice). One would expect that with that recognition of the project itself would come contributor and core contributor status for some or all of the major participants in the project, provided that it is seen to have made significant progress toward integration. > reality. Similarly, is your qemu project affiliated with any > community? If so, ask the leaders of that community why you weren't > included.) Exactly - that's the right place to start, not with the OGB and not with the process itself. If the Community leaders are unresponsive or don't appear to have any sound rationale for denying endorsement, escalation to the OGB may be appropriate. The OGB should never force a Community to endorse a Project; presumably the Communities are the repository of technical knowledge and leadership and are expected to make value judgments about the viability and desirability of ongoing work. But denying endorsement by failing to maintain awareness of relevant projects, because of personality conflicts, or for other reasons not related to a project's technical merit is a problem well within the OGB's mandate to address. Suffice it to say that dealing with Community failure is one of the deeper challenges facing the new OGB. Community leaders are advised to put their houses in order sooner rather than later, and to seek dissolution if adequate leadership cannot be found or a sensible definition of scope cannot be agreed upon. -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Mon Mar 5 10:25:28 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 10:25:28 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EC6098.6090100@sun.com> Keith M Wesolowski wrote: >> reality. Similarly, is your qemu project affiliated with any >> community? If so, ask the leaders of that community why you weren't >> included.) > > Exactly - that's the right place to start, not with the OGB and not > with the process itself. If the Community leaders are unresponsive or > don't appear to have any sound rationale for denying endorsement, > escalation to the OGB may be appropriate. The OGB should never force > a Community to endorse a Project; presumably the Communities are the > repository of technical knowledge and leadership and are expected to > make value judgments about the viability and desirability of ongoing > work. But denying endorsement by failing to maintain awareness of > relevant projects, because of personality conflicts, or for other > reasons not related to a project's technical merit is a problem well > within the OGB's mandate to address. > > Suffice it to say that dealing with Community failure is one of the > deeper challenges facing the new OGB. Community leaders are advised > to put their houses in order sooner rather than later, and to seek > dissolution if adequate leadership cannot be found or a sensible > definition of scope cannot be agreed upon. In this case, I think it's still a follow-on of the poor initial setup of Communities - instead of a Xen community, we should have a Virtualization community with Xen & qemu projects. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From garrett at damore.org Mon Mar 5 10:30:24 2007 From: garrett at damore.org (Garrett D'Amore) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 10:30:24 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC6098.6090100@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC6098.6090100@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EC61C0.4040308@damore.org> I also think this is a good sign that the relationship between Communities and Projects is not well understood by all participants. There are times it hasn't been at all clear to me, at least. Perhaps getting an endorsing community needs to be a prerequisite to setting up a project? -- Garrett Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Keith M Wesolowski wrote: >>> reality. Similarly, is your qemu project affiliated with any >>> community? If so, ask the leaders of that community why you weren't >>> included.) >> >> Exactly - that's the right place to start, not with the OGB and not >> with the process itself. If the Community leaders are unresponsive or >> don't appear to have any sound rationale for denying endorsement, >> escalation to the OGB may be appropriate. The OGB should never force >> a Community to endorse a Project; presumably the Communities are the >> repository of technical knowledge and leadership and are expected to >> make value judgments about the viability and desirability of ongoing >> work. But denying endorsement by failing to maintain awareness of >> relevant projects, because of personality conflicts, or for other >> reasons not related to a project's technical merit is a problem well >> within the OGB's mandate to address. >> >> Suffice it to say that dealing with Community failure is one of the >> deeper challenges facing the new OGB. Community leaders are advised >> to put their houses in order sooner rather than later, and to seek >> dissolution if adequate leadership cannot be found or a sensible >> definition of scope cannot be agreed upon. > > In this case, I think it's still a follow-on of the poor initial setup > of Communities - instead of a Xen community, we should have a > Virtualization > community with Xen & qemu projects. > From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Mon Mar 5 10:33:50 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:33:50 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC6098.6090100@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC6098.6090100@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070305183335.GC9224@sun.com> On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 10:25:28AM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > In this case, I think it's still a follow-on of the poor initial setup > of Communities - instead of a Xen community, we should have a Virtualization > community with Xen & qemu projects. Completely agree. Nothing precludes the formation of such a community today under the existing process, followed immediately by the creation of a QEMU project, endorsement, and grant of Core Contributor status by the Community's new leaders. If such events transpire, I would expect the Xen Community (acting jointly with the new Community) to petition the OGB for coalescence under an agreement specifying the leadership roles and status of contributorship grants and project endorsements under the unified Community. I would also expect that petition to incorporate a request that Xen be reclassified as a Project. It seems more likely than not that the Xen Community would not retain that status following a thorough review by the next OGB, so there is little incentive for anyone to defer cleaning this up. -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From Frank.Hofmann at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 10:40:15 2007 From: Frank.Hofmann at Sun.COM (Frank Hofmann) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 18:40:15 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC6098.6090100@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC6098.6090100@sun.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Alan Coopersmith wrote: [ ... ] > In this case, I think it's still a follow-on of the poor initial setup > of Communities - instead of a Xen community, we should have a Virtualization > community with Xen & qemu projects. And a Zones project. And a BrandZ project. A solaris-vmware forum. Whatever. A first-contact point for people interested in virtualization. A big second frome me for this idea of "umbrella communities", a little bit more hierarchies than the current very flat setup would only do good. Very similar considerations apply to e.g. Filesystems. Why need a ZFS community, a NFS community, and one for UFS ? Why no "generic" umbrella with specific subdivisions as projects ? FrankH. From al at logical-approach.com Mon Mar 5 10:44:52 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:44:52 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <20070305183335.GC9224@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC6098.6090100@sun.com> <20070305183335.GC9224@sun.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Keith M Wesolowski wrote: > On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 10:25:28AM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > > > In this case, I think it's still a follow-on of the poor initial setup > > of Communities - instead of a Xen community, we should have a Virtualization > > community with Xen & qemu projects. > > Completely agree. Nothing precludes the formation of such a community > today under the existing process, followed immediately by the creation > of a QEMU project, endorsement, and grant of Core Contributor status > by the Community's new leaders. If such events transpire, I would > expect the Xen Community (acting jointly with the new Community) to > petition the OGB for coalescence under an agreement specifying the > leadership roles and status of contributorship grants and project > endorsements under the unified Community. I would also expect that > petition to incorporate a request that Xen be reclassified as a > Project. It seems more likely than not that the Xen Community would > not retain that status following a thorough review by the next OGB, so > there is little incentive for anyone to defer cleaning this up. > Keith - I like your "Can Do" attitude. Yes there were mistakes made, yes the OGB could have done better - but my (personal) attitude at the time was to be as inclusive as possible and to err on the side of having little or no barriers to the initial growth of the project. On the other hand, we could have formed a commission, spent a bunch of time hashing out a better Community/Project organizational tree ... and, guess what, after a year it would have needed an overhaul anyway - simply because of changes in technology and the natural evolution of OpenSolaris. Keith has the right attitude and the right solution. Treat it just like any other "bug" and work the *solution* going forward. In the meantime, let's do everything possible, so that potential voters and valuable contributors like Martin (Martux) Bochnig don't feel disenfranchised or poorly treated. Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From Casper.Dik at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 11:01:16 2007 From: Casper.Dik at Sun.COM (Casper.Dik at Sun.COM) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:01:16 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC61C0.4040308@damore.org> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC6098.6090100@sun.com> <45EC61C0.4040308@damore.org> Message-ID: <200703051901.l25J1GWx028456@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> >I also think this is a good sign that the relationship between >Communities and Projects is not well understood by all participants. >There are times it hasn't been at all clear to me, at least. > >Perhaps getting an endorsing community needs to be a prerequisite to >setting up a project? Perhaps our view of the world is too simplistic also; surely there are projects which straddle many boundaries and projects which have sub projects or communities which have special interest groups. We need some form to organize, but it's not easy to see if there is a proper simple model. Casper From sch at eng.sun.com Mon Mar 5 12:04:53 2007 From: sch at eng.sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:04:53 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070305200453.GA15763@eng.sun.com> * Simon Phipps [2007-03-05 04:15]: > None of these candidates appear to have accepted their nomination. In > addition, neither have: > > Stephen Hahn I decline the nomination, although I am very grateful for the suggestion. It seems to me that I would probably fail in attempting to juggle the responsibilities of being Sun's Technical Lead and one of the Community's Board Members. Thanks Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From ian at ianshome.com Mon Mar 5 12:09:06 2007 From: ian at ianshome.com (Ian Collins) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:09:06 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EC78E2.1090601@ianshome.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > Ian Collins I'm flattered, but unfortunately, I am unable to devote the time required, so I'll decline this time. Ian From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 12:55:37 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:55:37 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EC83C9.20305@sun.com> Hi, Keith M Wesolowski wrote: >> reality. Similarly, is your qemu project affiliated with any >> community? If so, ask the leaders of that community why you weren't >> included.) > > Exactly - that's the right place to start, not with the OGB and not > with the process itself. If the Community leaders are unresponsive or > don't appear to have any sound rationale for denying endorsement, > escalation to the OGB may be appropriate. The OGB should never force > a Community to endorse a Project; presumably the Communities are the > repository of technical knowledge and leadership and are expected to > make value judgments about the viability and desirability of ongoing > work. But denying endorsement by failing to maintain awareness of > relevant projects, because of personality conflicts, or for other > reasons not related to a project's technical merit is a problem well > within the OGB's mandate to address. But there's absolutely no consistency with that. There's no guidelines or best practices of how to apply the membership. If one community's interpretation of the process is easier for geting 'Core Contributor' status compared to another community's process, then you're potentially going to get a weighted community. No one wants that, it'll only lead to bitterness among the wider community. While I can appreciate how it on a local level within the various OpenSolaris sub-communities, so that you build up a web of trust when technical issues need to be tackled, I'm still really struggling how it fits with the wider global OpenSolaris community. It's very clear there are a number of groups/individuals/whatever that don't have the same level of interest or approach to detail that you do, Keith, and that worries the crap out of me. Glynn From webmink at sun.com Mon Mar 5 13:37:22 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:37:22 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC83C9.20305@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC83C9.20305@sun.com> Message-ID: On Mar 5, 2007, at 20:55, Glynn Foster wrote: > Hi, > > Keith M Wesolowski wrote: >>> reality. Similarly, is your qemu project affiliated with any >>> community? If so, ask the leaders of that community why you weren't >>> included.) >> >> Exactly - that's the right place to start, not with the OGB and not >> with the process itself. If the Community leaders are >> unresponsive or >> don't appear to have any sound rationale for denying endorsement, >> escalation to the OGB may be appropriate. The OGB should never force >> a Community to endorse a Project; presumably the Communities are the >> repository of technical knowledge and leadership and are expected to >> make value judgments about the viability and desirability of ongoing >> work. But denying endorsement by failing to maintain awareness of >> relevant projects, because of personality conflicts, or for other >> reasons not related to a project's technical merit is a problem well >> within the OGB's mandate to address. > > But there's absolutely no consistency with that. There's no > guidelines or best > practices of how to apply the membership. If one community's > interpretation of > the process is easier for geting 'Core Contributor' status compared > to another > community's process, then you're potentially going to get a > weighted community. > No one wants that, it'll only lead to bitterness among the wider > community. > > While I can appreciate how it on a local level within the various > OpenSolaris > sub-communities, so that you build up a web of trust when technical > issues need > to be tackled, I'm still really struggling how it fits with the > wider global > OpenSolaris community. It's very clear there are a number of > groups/individuals/whatever that don't have the same level of > interest or > approach to detail that you do, Keith, and that worries the crap > out of me. I think the OGB always assumed this would be one of the first areas a new, elected OGB would want to work on. Just because the "membership" mechanism is as it is for this bootstrapping process doesn't mean it is either correct or that it is permanent. It is just there to get us started. S. From webmink at sun.com Mon Mar 5 13:40:19 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:40:19 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 5, 2007, at 17:45, Rich Teer wrote: > FWIW, my feelings are that we should take silence as dissent (i.e., > a declination). +1 From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Mon Mar 5 14:00:14 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 14:00:14 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC83C9.20305@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC83C9.20305@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070305220012.GA19604@sun.com> On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 09:55:37AM +1300, Glynn Foster wrote: > But there's absolutely no consistency with that. There's no > guidelines or best practices of how to apply the membership. If one > community's interpretation of the process is easier for geting 'Core > Contributor' status compared to another community's process, then > you're potentially going to get a weighted community. No one wants > that, it'll only lead to bitterness among the wider community. Yes, that's a valid concern, and in fact I noticed very early on that we had this problem already. As of the last publication, the communities have core contributor representation as follows: 4 academic 1 approach 9 arc 4 brandz 9 cab 9 desktop 5 documentation 4 dtrace 6 fm 5 i18n 2 immigrants 10 install 11 laptop 6 marketing 5 mdb 8 network 3 nfs 48 on 9 performance 4 ppc 5 smf 9 testing 23 tools 105 usergroup 3 x 15 zfs 6 zones That is, almost 1/3 of all core contributors represent the user groups, and another 15% are the ON CRT. Surely, you'd think, user groups aren't the single most important activity we have going, more than twice as important as anything else. In truth, the problem we have today is not that some communities have made it too easy to obtain core contributorship, or even that there is no consistent guideline for awarding it. Simply put, the largest problem is that some communities have done a good job of identifying contributors and others have not. A secondary problem is that some communities (without regard for their relative value) simply don't have very many contributors. In the long run, this suggests that per-Community representation may someday be needed a la the United States Senate. In the short run, it suggests that some communities are poorly organised and led, and those communities will be the ones who are left without a voice, leaving interested parties to petition for replacement or dissolution of those ineffective communities. Until we have a sensible set of communities with clear and effective leadership, I see little reason for the OGB to issue guidelines in an effort to prevent communities from granting core contributorship too easily. That problem will be better addressed after community reorganisation. > While I can appreciate how it on a local level within the various > OpenSolaris sub-communities, so that you build up a web of trust > when technical issues need to be tackled, I'm still really > struggling how it fits with the wider global OpenSolaris Likewise. A lot of this depends on exactly what role the OGB will claim for itself. The proposed Constitution gives vast, dare I say unconscionable, power to the OGB and to my way of thinking relies far too much on the goodness of its members and the vigilance of the electorate to ensure proper use of that power (rather than placing stricter limits on the OGB but giving its members greater independence to act within those limits). The requirement for such widespread and intimate participation in government may well turn out to be a serious handicap in a community in which many or most participants would rather engineer software, especially if such an unbalanced situation arises. That's doubly true given that, so far, the balance of power is firmly against those who "just want to write code." If this situation persists, the OGB may need to consider structural changes to the Constitution, assuming it's ratified. What shape those changes might take would depend on the nature of the imbalance and the rulemaking areas into which the OGB chooses to wade. -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From bmc at eng.sun.com Mon Mar 5 10:28:40 2007 From: bmc at eng.sun.com (Bryan Cantrill) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:28:40 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC6098.6090100@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC6098.6090100@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070305182840.GU12299@eng.sun.com> On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 10:25:28AM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Keith M Wesolowski wrote: > >>reality. Similarly, is your qemu project affiliated with any > >>community? If so, ask the leaders of that community why you weren't > >>included.) > > > >Exactly - that's the right place to start, not with the OGB and not > >with the process itself. If the Community leaders are unresponsive or > >don't appear to have any sound rationale for denying endorsement, > >escalation to the OGB may be appropriate. The OGB should never force > >a Community to endorse a Project; presumably the Communities are the > >repository of technical knowledge and leadership and are expected to > >make value judgments about the viability and desirability of ongoing > >work. But denying endorsement by failing to maintain awareness of > >relevant projects, because of personality conflicts, or for other > >reasons not related to a project's technical merit is a problem well > >within the OGB's mandate to address. > > > >Suffice it to say that dealing with Community failure is one of the > >deeper challenges facing the new OGB. Community leaders are advised > >to put their houses in order sooner rather than later, and to seek > >dissolution if adequate leadership cannot be found or a sensible > >definition of scope cannot be agreed upon. > > In this case, I think it's still a follow-on of the poor initial setup > of Communities - instead of a Xen community, we should have a Virtualization > community with Xen & qemu projects. I can't bring myself to utter "+1" -- a response that I put in the same mental bin as "please remove me from this alias" -- but I agree with Alan's sentiment... - Bryan -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryan Cantrill, Solaris Kernel Development. http://blogs.sun.com/bmc From Casper.Dik at sun.com Sun Mar 4 13:05:35 2007 From: Casper.Dik at sun.com (Casper.Dik at sun.com) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 22:05:35 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Nominations Accepted? In-Reply-To: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> References: <1F681844-7861-4DEA-9B41-0F4BEA3CBB85@sun.com> Message-ID: <200703042105.l24L5o2E007167@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> I accept. (I was wondering whether I should still officially put forward my name; it was a bit of a hectic week even though I was supposed to be off for some emergency R&R) Casper From jk at tools.de Mon Mar 5 02:00:23 2007 From: jk at tools.de (Juergen Keil) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 11:00:23 +0100 (CET) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Nominations Accepted? Message-ID: <200703051000.l25A0NvN007988@imap.tools.intra> I decline From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Mon Mar 5 05:15:51 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:15:51 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Nomination Message-ID: <45ec1807.03cybuquSiK76zpX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> I accept the nomination. J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From mb1x at gmx.com Mon Mar 5 08:41:33 2007 From: mb1x at gmx.com (Martin Bochnig) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:41:33 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Nominating ... In-Reply-To: References: <30291950.1173111469088.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <45EC483D.1050303@gmx.com> Al Hopper wrote: > >Martin - here's a copy of last weeks announcement. I'll CC it to >cab-discuss also - in case someone else missed it: > [...] >--- > >Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com > Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT >OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 > OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 > > Thanks Al, that's it. I will read it and follow the instructions in a hurry. Martin From mb1x at gmx.com Mon Mar 5 10:29:18 2007 From: mb1x at gmx.com (Martin Bochnig) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 19:29:18 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EC617E.7020300@gmx.com> Alan Coopersmith wrote: > For Xorg on sparc, I didn't list you because you have not yet > contributed anything to the X Community - but I was also very > unsure who to list when I generated the list of Core Contributors. > I'm sure once we get going on integrating your work into the X > Community, you'll count as a Core Contributor for X in the future, > but my understanding was Contributor status was supposed to reflect > past results, not future plans. Okay, I indeed didn't publish any diffs (so far). But at least the working binaries (April 2006, as part of marTux_0.1), for the first time ever a functional Xorg for sparc-Solaris ( see http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/x_win/announcements/#2006-04-10_announcing_martux_0_1_livecd_for_sparc ). And I hence _showed_ that a once neglected (or probably forever deferred) project could be turned into reality easily and quickly, with not too much headaches. The required patches were so damn small initially (Xorg 6.9.0), that I didn't even dare to release them as actual "patches", because you might have loughed. My achievement may not be huge porting work in this case, but _that_ I didn't give up in getting things built __plus__(!) properly working. You now _know_, THAT IT IS POSSIBLE to easily bring Xorg to sparc (and even sparcv9 kernels). That's in my eyes not a vague future announcement thing, but a benefit you already have. The full diffs will be released until March31st, including afb and ffb support (based on 7.2.0). Martin From jamesd.wi at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 10:38:30 2007 From: jamesd.wi at gmail.com (James Dickens) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:38:30 -0600 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> Message-ID: Hi [sorry for top posting] I'm not a core contributor, maybe I don't deserve to be. But I think I should be, I haven't submitted any actual code, probably never will, but I do my part in evangalism and helping newbies and advanced users with their problems accross all communities both with my blog and my activities on #opensolaris and #solaris as well as posting to numerous email lists and filing many bug reports. Just thought I would bring it to your attention. James Dickens uadmin.blogspot.com On 3/5/07, Simon Phipps wrote: > > Nominations for the forthcoming election to the OpenSolaris Governing > Board close at the end of today, Monday March 5th, Pacific Time. You can > see the status of the election at > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ where you > will note that a number of candidates still await seconds or acceptance of > their nomination. The page is updated during Al Hopper's waking hours, since > he is using a file upload rather than collaborative wiki editing due to the > complexity of the table, so it may lag slightly. > IF YOU EXPECT TO BE A CANDIDATE, PLEASE CHECK THIS PAGE! > > The following candidates do not appear to have not been seconded by a Core > Contributor: > > Dennis Clarke > Ian Collins > Jens Elkner > Eric Enright > Mike Gerdts > Rainer Heilke > John J. McLaughlin > Jeremy Teo > > If you wish to second these nominations, please write to > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org straight away. > > None of these candidates appear to have accepted their nomination. In > addition, neither have: > > Alan Coopersmith > Casper Dik > Stephen Hahn > Roland Mainz > Joerg Schilling > > Candidates who wish to accept their nomination should write to > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org immediately with a message that includes the > phrase "I accept" in a suitable context. > Candidates who wish to decline their nomination may write to > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org with a message that includes the phrase "I > decline" in a suitable context. > > > Right now there are twelve candidates who will be in the ballot. Those > candidates should prepare a short bio somewhere on the web, plus a statement > of their reasons for wanting to be elected, and send the URL of each > statement to cab-discuss at opensolaris.org > > Regards > > Simon > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mb1x at gmx.com Mon Mar 5 10:50:07 2007 From: mb1x at gmx.com (Martin Bochnig) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 19:50:07 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC617E.7020300@gmx.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <45EC617E.7020300@gmx.com> Message-ID: <45EC665F.4070800@gmx.com> Martin Bochnig wrote: > Alan Coopersmith wrote: > >> For Xorg on sparc, I didn't list you because you have not yet >> contributed anything to the X Community - but I was also very >> unsure who to list when I generated the list of Core Contributors. >> I'm sure once we get going on integrating your work into the X >> Community, you'll count as a Core Contributor for X in the future, >> but my understanding was Contributor status was supposed to reflect >> past results, not future plans. > Situation BEFORE I released my binaries: http://blogs.sun.com/alanc/entry/xorg_for_solaris_sparc Thursday February 16, 2006 Xorg for Solaris SPARC? I got two comments quickly after my last post, and have been asked a few other times lately, so I'll post the answer here as a new entry so it's more visible. The question is ?/So when will we have Xorg on Solaris SPARC?/? The answer unfortunately is simply ?/I don't know/.? The Sun Ray team are working on porting the Sun Ray drivers to Xorg and the SPARC graphics group are porting the XVR-2500 drivers to Xorg. Our group provides assistance as needed, but most of the work is in the hands of those groups, and I don't know their plans for release schedules yet (and it wouldn't be my place to announce for them even if I did). It's being worked on, but that's about all I know or can say right now. [Technorati Tags: Xorg , X11 , Solaris , OpenSolaris ] Posted at 09:29AM Feb 16, 2006 by Alan Coopersmith in Solaris | Comments[5] _________________________________________________________________ ===================================== -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Situation AFTER my various postings to http://opensolaris.org/os/community/x_win/discussions/ : You released Xorg for SPARC by yourself (limited to the wsfb driver) : http://opensolaris.org/os/community/x_win/announcements/ Martin Bochnig From flash at systemnews.com Mon Mar 5 10:52:04 2007 From: flash at systemnews.com (John J. McLaughlin) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:52:04 -0500 Subject: [cab-discuss] I accept Message-ID: <45EC66D4.4020005@systemnews.com> I am happy to accept the nomination to the OpenSolaris Governing Board. -johnj -- John J. McLaughlin, Editor-in-Chief/CTO, System News Inc. http://sun.systemnews.com flash at systemnews.com (954) 234 8990 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnjmclaughlin From unixconsole at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 11:06:23 2007 From: unixconsole at yahoo.com (Octave Orgeron) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 11:06:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> Message-ID: <957872.35314.qm@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, Speaking as the leader of the Systems Administration community, I'd have to say that the endorsement function is a manual process and doesn't change any community processes. It's a totally manual process where you select from a list of projects to endorse. I haven't updated it in a long time and when I last did I just selected a bunch of things that were of interest to what we were doing at the time. All it ends up doing is creating a list with links. It doesn't reflect a formal relationship or anything. As a matter of fact, I don't like where the list ends up on the page:( And have thought about removing the items in the list just because of that. It probably should do something more functional, but it's just a way to link to projects. Octave --- Keith M Wesolowski wrote: > On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 10:02:32AM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > > > The system for choosing core contributors is notably flawed in that > > it only recognizes people working with Communities, not Projects or > > distros. (For instance, Roland wasn't initially listed because > > This is not a flaw in the process but a flaw in the leadership of the > various Communities which should be following more closely the > various > Projects which are or should be relevant to their areas of interest. > > > ksh93 is a Project, not a Community, and hasn't been affiliated > with > > any Community groups, yet he's one of the biggest contributors in > > That's the defect - I'd like to know why the System Administration > Community, to name but one obvious example, has endorsed other > projects but not that one (it's their prerogative to make that > choice, > but it seems as likely as not that it represents ignorance or > incompleteness rather than a conscious choice). One would expect > that > with that recognition of the project itself would come contributor > and > core contributor status for some or all of the major participants in > the project, provided that it is seen to have made significant > progress toward integration. > > > reality. Similarly, is your qemu project affiliated with any > > community? If so, ask the leaders of that community why you > weren't > > included.) > > Exactly - that's the right place to start, not with the OGB and not > with the process itself. If the Community leaders are unresponsive > or > don't appear to have any sound rationale for denying endorsement, > escalation to the OGB may be appropriate. The OGB should never force > a Community to endorse a Project; presumably the Communities are the > repository of technical knowledge and leadership and are expected to > make value judgments about the viability and desirability of ongoing > work. But denying endorsement by failing to maintain awareness of > relevant projects, because of personality conflicts, or for other > reasons not related to a project's technical merit is a problem well > within the OGB's mandate to address. > > Suffice it to say that dealing with Community failure is one of the > deeper challenges facing the new OGB. Community leaders are advised > to put their houses in order sooner rather than later, and to seek > dissolution if adequate leadership cannot be found or a sensible > definition of scope cannot be agreed upon. > > -- > Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" > FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris.org > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Octave J. Orgeron Solaris Systems Engineer http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/sysadmin/ http://unixconsole.blogspot.com unixconsole at yahoo.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ____________________________________________________________________________________ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 From unixconsole at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 11:09:28 2007 From: unixconsole at yahoo.com (Octave Orgeron) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 11:09:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC6098.6090100@sun.com> Message-ID: <408309.37738.qm@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree that communities/projects should be organized better. Octave --- Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Keith M Wesolowski wrote: > >> reality. Similarly, is your qemu project affiliated with any > >> community? If so, ask the leaders of that community why you > weren't > >> included.) > > > > Exactly - that's the right place to start, not with the OGB and not > > with the process itself. If the Community leaders are unresponsive > or > > don't appear to have any sound rationale for denying endorsement, > > escalation to the OGB may be appropriate. The OGB should never > force > > a Community to endorse a Project; presumably the Communities are > the > > repository of technical knowledge and leadership and are expected > to > > make value judgments about the viability and desirability of > ongoing > > work. But denying endorsement by failing to maintain awareness of > > relevant projects, because of personality conflicts, or for other > > reasons not related to a project's technical merit is a problem > well > > within the OGB's mandate to address. > > > > Suffice it to say that dealing with Community failure is one of the > > deeper challenges facing the new OGB. Community leaders are > advised > > to put their houses in order sooner rather than later, and to seek > > dissolution if adequate leadership cannot be found or a sensible > > definition of scope cannot be agreed upon. > > In this case, I think it's still a follow-on of the poor initial > setup > of Communities - instead of a Xen community, we should have a > Virtualization > community with Xen & qemu projects. > > -- > -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com > Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris.org > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Octave J. Orgeron Solaris Systems Engineer http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/sysadmin/ http://unixconsole.blogspot.com unixconsole at yahoo.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ____________________________________________________________________________________ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html From mb1x at gmx.com Mon Mar 5 11:30:58 2007 From: mb1x at gmx.com (Martin Bochnig) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:30:58 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EC6FF2.5000804@gmx.com> Alan Coopersmith wrote: > For Xorg on sparc, I didn't list you because you have not yet > contributed anything to the X Community Sounds disappointing. And I did not provide binaries alone (Xorg for sparc including PGX, PGX24, PGX32, PGX64 and XVR-100 drivers), but also source: The Aperture-amd64 patch (with that tricky -mcmodel=kernel). http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=10420&tstart=75 http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=10593&tstart=75 Now in Xorg's (and XFree86's) main branch, placed there by y. : http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=commit;h=6bd4c254396cb0f4e8ae21ff455ebb15cd9f4f10 http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/xserver.git;a=commitdiff;h=6bd4c254396cb0f4e8ae21ff455ebb15cd9f4f10 http://cvsweb.xfree86.org/cvsweb/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/etc/apSolaris.shar > - but I was also very > unsure who to list when I generated the list of Core Contributors. > I'm sure once we get going on integrating your work into the X > Community, you'll count as a Core Contributor for X in the future, > but my understanding was Contributor status was supposed to reflect > past results, not future plans. > > For your work on martux though, I think you would easily qualify for > one of the "Contributor at Large" spots, by mailing cab-discuss to > request such status. > From mb1x at gmx.com Mon Mar 5 12:23:10 2007 From: mb1x at gmx.com (Martin Bochnig) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 21:23:10 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EC7C2E.4070302@gmx.com> James Dickens wrote: > Hi > > [sorry for top posting] > > I'm not a core contributor, maybe I don't deserve to be. But I think I > should be, I haven't submitted any actual code, probably never will, > but I do my part in evangalism and helping newbies and advanced users > with their problems accross all communities both with my blog and my > activities on #opensolaris and #solaris as well as posting to numerous > email lists and filing many bug reports. Just thought I would bring it > to your attention. > > > James Dickens > uadmin.blogspot.com > +1 James Dickens' Blog http://uadmin.blogspot.com/ is a valuable newsticker. Plus it regulary gets referenced to and/or quoted by various news sites, including ElReg. It therefore brings public interest, hence market value and CASH to OpenSolaris.org. Why should JamesD not be considered a core contributor? And - if not - at least have a right to vote? p.s. The whole thing really begins to disappoint me. Maybe I'm not the only one. And the silence currently smells deadly. ""M."" > > > On 3/5/07, *Simon Phipps* < webmink at sun.com > > wrote: > > Nominations for the forthcoming election to the OpenSolaris > Governing Board close at the end of today, Monday March 5th, > Pacific Time. You can see the status of the election at > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ > where you will note that a number of candidates still await > seconds or acceptance of their nomination. The page is updated > during Al Hopper's waking hours, since he is using a file upload > rather than collaborative wiki editing due to the complexity of > the table, so it may lag slightly. > > IF YOU EXPECT TO BE A CANDIDATE, PLEASE CHECK THIS PAGE! > > The following candidates do not appear to have not been seconded > by a Core Contributor: > > Dennis Clarke > Ian Collins > Jens Elkner > Eric Enright > Mike Gerdts > Rainer Heilke > John J. McLaughlin > Jeremy Teo > > If you wish to second these nominations, please write to > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org > straight away. > > None of these candidates appear to have accepted their nomination. > In addition, neither have: > > Alan Coopersmith > Casper Dik > Stephen Hahn > Roland Mainz > Joerg Schilling > > Candidates who wish to accept their nomination should write to > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org > immediately with a message that includes the phrase "I accept" in > a suitable context. > Candidates who wish to decline their nomination may write to > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org > with a message that includes the phrase "I decline" in a suitable > context. > > > Right now there are twelve candidates who will be in the ballot. > Those candidates should prepare a short bio somewhere on the web, > plus a statement of their reasons for wanting to be elected, and > send the URL of each statement to cab-discuss at opensolaris.org > > > Regards > > Simon > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris.org > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >opensolaris-discuss mailing list >opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris.org > From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Mon Mar 5 13:54:39 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 22:54:39 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> Message-ID: <45ec919f.DdJQLrQT4QRya5U3%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Simon Phipps wrote: > Candidates who wish to accept their nomination should write to cab- > discuss at opensolaris.org immediately with a message that includes the > phrase "I accept" in a suitable context. I did send an "I accept" mail to cab-discuss at opensolaris.org but it seems that is was ignored.... Alan Coopersmith did reply later but is already listed at: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ What is the reason? J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From al at logical-approach.com Mon Mar 5 14:09:05 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 16:09:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45ec919f.DdJQLrQT4QRya5U3%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> <45ec919f.DdJQLrQT4QRya5U3%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Joerg Schilling wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: > > > Candidates who wish to accept their nomination should write to cab- > > discuss at opensolaris.org immediately with a message that includes the > > phrase "I accept" in a suitable context. > > I did send an "I accept" mail to cab-discuss at opensolaris.org > but it seems that is was ignored.... > > Alan Coopersmith did reply later but is already listed at: > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ > > What is the reason? Joerg - I've been watching cab-discuss very carefully and I don't see any email from you to that list. I just looked through the archives at: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=17 and I don't see anything from you there either?? Can you email me a copy of the relevant sendmail logs and I'll ask the folks at sun to trace the message and find out what happened to it. In the meantime, please followup with a single message to cab-discuss and I'll update the status page as soon as I see it. Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From webmink at sun.com Mon Mar 5 14:10:17 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 22:10:17 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45ec919f.DdJQLrQT4QRya5U3%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> <45ec919f.DdJQLrQT4QRya5U3%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <7AC2D5C7-2145-4348-85F0-3F9E83157449@sun.com> On Mar 5, 2007, at 21:54, Joerg Schilling wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: > >> Candidates who wish to accept their nomination should write to cab- >> discuss at opensolaris.org immediately with a message that includes the >> phrase "I accept" in a suitable context. > > I did send an "I accept" mail to cab-discuss at opensolaris.org > but it seems that is was ignored.... > > Alan Coopersmith did reply later but is already listed at: > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ > > What is the reason? > > J?rg Human error, probably. That's why I was asking, we are all fallible. Thanks for confirming. S. From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Mon Mar 5 14:07:48 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 23:07:48 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> <45ec919f.DdJQLrQT4QRya5U3%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <45ec94b4.BWFcmbuK/Lzonr+z%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Al Hopper wrote: > On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Joerg Schilling wrote: > > > Simon Phipps wrote: > > > > > Candidates who wish to accept their nomination should write to cab- > > > discuss at opensolaris.org immediately with a message that includes the > > > phrase "I accept" in a suitable context. > > > > I did send an "I accept" mail to cab-discuss at opensolaris.org > > but it seems that is was ignored.... > > > > Alan Coopersmith did reply later but is already listed at: > > > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ > > > > What is the reason? > > Joerg - I've been watching cab-discuss very carefully and I don't see any > email from you to that list. I just looked through the archives at: > > http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=17 > I asume that my mail has been blocked by the mailer at opensolaris.org J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From binarycrusader at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 14:13:36 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 09:13:36 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC7C2E.4070302@gmx.com> References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> <45EC7C2E.4070302@gmx.com> Message-ID: On 06/03/07, Martin Bochnig wrote: > Why should JamesD not be considered a core contributor? > And - if not - at least have a right to vote? > > p.s. The whole thing really begins to disappoint me. > Maybe I'm not the only one. Martin, I agree that the current process for contributor recognition is quite different than what I have seen in other communities. However, this is also the first community I have been involved with that had a formal voting process, governance, and so on. I myself sent a request for contributor status to cab-discuss several days ago, had a few positive responses, and then never heard one way or another about what would happen from there. I suspect though that this entire process is still being worked out. Specifically, it would appear the process for obtaining contributor status is defined in a document (charter / constitution?) that has yet to be finalised so it seems like it is a fluid process at the moment. -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From al at logical-approach.com Mon Mar 5 14:19:13 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 16:19:13 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] I accept In-Reply-To: <45EC66D4.4020005@systemnews.com> References: <45EC66D4.4020005@systemnews.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, John J. McLaughlin wrote: > I am happy to accept the nomination to the OpenSolaris Governing Board. > > -johnj Hi John, You need a "second" from an OpenSolaris Core Contributor before I can log your acceptance. Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From al at logical-approach.com Mon Mar 5 14:35:54 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 16:35:54 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> <45EC7C2E.4070302@gmx.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Shawn Walker wrote: > On 06/03/07, Martin Bochnig wrote: > > Why should JamesD not be considered a core contributor? > > And - if not - at least have a right to vote? > > > > p.s. The whole thing really begins to disappoint me. > > Maybe I'm not the only one. > > Martin, I agree that the current process for contributor recognition > is quite different than what I have seen in other communities. > However, this is also the first community I have been involved with > that had a formal voting process, governance, and so on. > > I myself sent a request for contributor status to cab-discuss several > days ago, had a few positive responses, and then never heard one way > or another about what would happen from there. Shawn, I regret to inform you, that your request to be recognized as a core contributor did not receive the required majority vote by the OGB. As it stands, you did get 2 positive votes, and needed 3 (+1 votes) to get a majority decision. I don't think that we have a timeout timer in effect for this type of vote - but, by this point in time we'll call it case closed. Sorry. > I suspect though that this entire process is still being worked out. > Specifically, it would appear the process for obtaining contributor > status is defined in a document (charter / constitution?) that has yet > to be finalised so it seems like it is a fluid process at the moment. The process is fairly simple. If you get 3 +1 votes from the OGB you can be designated an OpenSolaris Core Contributor at large. In the meantime I'll bring the matter of the lack of a timeout timer to the next OGB meeting and we'll define one. PS: Bear in mind, that if you get elected to the OGB you'll automatically be granted Core Contributor status. Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From dclarke at blastwave.org Mon Mar 5 14:43:28 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 17:43:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > > On Mar 5, 2007, at 17:45, Rich Teer wrote: > >> FWIW, my feelings are that we should take silence as dissent (i.e., >> a declination). Don't be so quick to make that assumption. Dennis From richlowe at richlowe.net Mon Mar 5 14:48:15 2007 From: richlowe at richlowe.net (Richard Lowe) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:48:15 -0500 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: <45EC9E2F.4030703@richlowe.net> Dennis Clarke wrote: >> On Mar 5, 2007, at 17:45, Rich Teer wrote: >> >>> FWIW, my feelings are that we should take silence as dissent (i.e., >>> a declination). > > Don't be so quick to make that assumption. There's about half a day left to either accept or decline. It would seem obvious that someone doing neither before that period of things is over is, in effect, declining. Whether they intended to or otherwise. -- Rich From Ghee.Teo at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 14:54:16 2007 From: Ghee.Teo at Sun.COM (Ghee Teo) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 22:54:16 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC83C9.20305@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EC9F98.9010204@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Mar 5, 2007, at 20:55, Glynn Foster wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Keith M Wesolowski wrote: >>>> reality. Similarly, is your qemu project affiliated with any >>>> community? If so, ask the leaders of that community why you weren't >>>> included.) >>> >>> Exactly - that's the right place to start, not with the OGB and not >>> with the process itself. If the Community leaders are unresponsive or >>> don't appear to have any sound rationale for denying endorsement, >>> escalation to the OGB may be appropriate. The OGB should never force >>> a Community to endorse a Project; presumably the Communities are the >>> repository of technical knowledge and leadership and are expected to >>> make value judgments about the viability and desirability of ongoing >>> work. But denying endorsement by failing to maintain awareness of >>> relevant projects, because of personality conflicts, or for other >>> reasons not related to a project's technical merit is a problem well >>> within the OGB's mandate to address. >> >> But there's absolutely no consistency with that. There's no >> guidelines or best >> practices of how to apply the membership. If one community's >> interpretation of >> the process is easier for geting 'Core Contributor' status compared >> to another >> community's process, then you're potentially going to get a weighted >> community. >> No one wants that, it'll only lead to bitterness among the wider >> community. >> >> While I can appreciate how it on a local level within the various >> OpenSolaris >> sub-communities, so that you build up a web of trust when technical >> issues need >> to be tackled, I'm still really struggling how it fits with the wider >> global >> OpenSolaris community. It's very clear there are a number of >> groups/individuals/whatever that don't have the same level of >> interest or >> approach to detail that you do, Keith, and that worries the crap out >> of me. > > I think the OGB always assumed this would be one of the first areas a > new, elected OGB would want to work on. Just because the "membership" > mechanism is as it is for this bootstrapping process doesn't mean it > is either correct or that it is permanent. It is just there to get us > started. But the current process has meant many people who have a high commitment are being left out because - they have not be following cab-discuss - their core contributers of their community have not following the cab-discuss process But the more alienating factor is most likely to be the selection of contributors is not transparent. Especially when one sees their peers are not the list and they are not on the list. At least when I was working on the membership committee of GNOME foundation membership, there is a cohereant decision making process which we at one stage was so firmly guarded, we even rejected Bruce Perens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Perens) on his first application for membership. Bad, but at least consistent. We certainly lacking consistency at this moment, let the emotion pass and let hope the new OGB will work on this as their first primary goals, promotion of membership. -Ghee > > S. > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris.org From garrett at damore.org Mon Mar 5 14:54:17 2007 From: garrett at damore.org (Garrett D'Amore) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:54:17 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: <45EC9F99.90906@damore.org> Dennis Clarke wrote: >> On Mar 5, 2007, at 17:45, Rich Teer wrote: >> >> >>> FWIW, my feelings are that we should take silence as dissent (i.e., >>> a declination). >>> > > Don't be so quick to make that assumption. > What's the rush on this? Can't acceptance/declination be held off until the actual ballots are finalized? Just put the accepted names on the ballot. One could imagine having an "Fill In" entry spot for candidates who haven't accepted. (Heck, perhaps a fill-in should be allowed even for candidates that have not received a nomination... I'm not sure.) I doubt any such candidates would get enough of a vote to alter the results significantly, but at least it allows for a more inclusive process. Of course, I don't know if our polling software can support this. :-/ Further, if someone declines, all the way up to and including the election itself, it shouldn't be a problem. Just go down to the next most popular person. One would hope that if a candidate was planning to decline he would announce it before the ballots were finalized. Last minute changes of heart shouldn't be ruled out (as already pointed out). -- Garrett From webmink at sun.com Mon Mar 5 15:03:16 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 23:03:16 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: <8A9E7EE4-1944-4C75-9E7C-F75ABB415F6B@sun.com> On Mar 5, 2007, at 22:43, Dennis Clarke wrote: > >> >> On Mar 5, 2007, at 17:45, Rich Teer wrote: >> >>> FWIW, my feelings are that we should take silence as dissent (i.e., >>> a declination). > > Don't be so quick to make that assumption. It seems reasonable to view someone who, after many reminders, has not accepted their nomination by the time the announced deadline comes round, to have silently opted out. What is your alternative proposal? S. From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 15:04:00 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 12:04:00 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <45EC9F99.90906@damore.org> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45EC9F99.90906@damore.org> Message-ID: <45ECA1E0.7070906@sun.com> Hey, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Dennis Clarke wrote: >> Don't be so quick to make that assumption. >> > > What's the rush on this? Can't acceptance/declination be held off until > the actual ballots are finalized? Just put the accepted names on the > ballot. > > One could imagine having an "Fill In" entry spot for candidates who > haven't accepted. (Heck, perhaps a fill-in should be allowed even for > candidates that have not received a nomination... I'm not sure.) I > doubt any such candidates would get enough of a vote to alter the > results significantly, but at least it allows for a more inclusive > process. Of course, I don't know if our polling software can support > this. :-/ > > Further, if someone declines, all the way up to and including the > election itself, it shouldn't be a problem. Just go down to the next > most popular person. One would hope that if a candidate was planning to > decline he would announce it before the ballots were finalized. Last > minute changes of heart shouldn't be ruled out (as already pointed out). This is entirely the problem that we create with other people nominating each other. Self nomination is *so* much easier though has its own problems if you have shy people. In fairness though, if the person doesn't know he has been nominated, there's obviously some breakdown in communication. It gives *me* the impression that either the nominator hasn't communicated adequately with that candidate, or the candidate can't be bothered to mail a formal acceptance mail. The later is obviously more worrying because in that case, I don't believe they are suitable board candidates. Line up another item for the board to handle next year - this whole nomination process has been ultra-confusing, and embarrassing at the very least. Glynn From webmink at sun.com Mon Mar 5 15:07:46 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 23:07:46 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC9F98.9010204@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC83C9.20305@sun.com> <45EC9F98.9010204@sun.com> Message-ID: <05C8D480-DDAE-4A1B-8361-84476BBF35B9@sun.com> On Mar 5, 2007, at 22:54, Ghee Teo wrote: > But the current process has meant many people who have a high > commitment are being left out because > - they have not be following cab-discuss I believe Stephen Hahn's repeated requests for core contributor nominations have been very visible and have been conducted in fora other than cab-discuss. Thus, following cab-discuss has not been a prerequisite. The issue appears to be more the attitude that non-code matters are tedious and irrelevant, at least until they become important. S. From al at logical-approach.com Mon Mar 5 15:08:48 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 17:08:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45ec94b4.BWFcmbuK/Lzonr+z%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> <45ec919f.DdJQLrQT4QRya5U3%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <45ec94b4.BWFcmbuK/Lzonr+z%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Joerg Schilling wrote: > Al Hopper wrote: > > > On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Joerg Schilling wrote: > > > > > Simon Phipps wrote: > > > > > > > Candidates who wish to accept their nomination should write to cab- > > > > discuss at opensolaris.org immediately with a message that includes the > > > > phrase "I accept" in a suitable context. > > > > > > I did send an "I accept" mail to cab-discuss at opensolaris.org > > > but it seems that is was ignored.... > > > > > > Alan Coopersmith did reply later but is already listed at: > > > > > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ > > > > > > What is the reason? > > > > Joerg - I've been watching cab-discuss very carefully and I don't see any > > email from you to that list. I just looked through the archives at: > > > > http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=17 > > > > I asume that my mail has been blocked by the mailer at opensolaris.org And I just received a "block" of messages that arrived within a couple of Seconds - including the one you're referring to - that look like they were posted some time ago. Actually some of them were CCed to osol-discuss and appeared on that list hours ago. I'll ask the infrastructure folks to determine the reason for this unexpected behavior. After examining the email headers, I see one common link that might explain the behavior: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:08:08 -0800 and then all the emails in the block were sent in the next 2 Seconds. So it looks like the list is moderated!?? I can put my view of the raw (email) data up on a webserver if anyone is interested in looking through the headers. In the meantime we'll ask the infrastructure folks to "fix" it. Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From binarycrusader at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 15:17:04 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 10:17:04 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <20070305220012.GA19604@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC83C9.20305@sun.com> <20070305220012.GA19604@sun.com> Message-ID: On 06/03/07, Keith M Wesolowski wrote: > have very many contributors. In the long run, this suggests that > per-Community representation may someday be needed a la the United > States Senate. In the short run, it suggests that some communities > are poorly organised and led, and those communities will be the ones > who are left without a voice, leaving interested parties to petition > for replacement or dissolution of those ineffective communities. This is something that has concerned me as well. Related to this particular problem, I think, is also the perception of activity within the OpenSolaris community as a whole. While having these "separate communities" makes for a far better signal-to-noise ratio, it also has the unintended side effect of making some communities appear vibrant and alive while others do not. While this may accurately reflect the activity of an individual community, it can have some unintended consequences. One of those unintended consequences is that it is much harder to perceive the level of activity that is occurring within the OpenSolaris community as a whole since the activity within each community is "filtered" to a particular level. With this in mind, it is not surprising, to me, that individuals are left wondering about their status or role within the community. Some individuals participate in many different communities on a frequent basis, but never enough to be "recognized" in any individual one. As a result, we may miss out on opportunities to recognise people that bring great value to the OpenSolaris community as a whole because of the reliance on individual community leadership to provide recognition. Recent comments regarding "Projects" are a good example of this particular scenario in my view. I also completely support the idea of a unified set of contributors. To me, a contributor is a contributor to the entire OpenSolaris community and project, not just one part of it. Because of that, I don't think that a status that affects the community as a whole (voting, etc.) should be a status granted on a per-community basis. I also think that listing people as "contributors" in some official capacity for each specific community will only serve to embitter some individuals. To me, almost every contributor contributes to every "individual community" in an indirect fashion. Is the OpenSolaris community not the result of all contributors instead of a specific part? > > On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 09:55:37AM +1300, Glynn Foster wrote: > > While I can appreciate how it on a local level within the various > > OpenSolaris sub-communities, so that you build up a web of trust > > when technical issues need to be tackled, I'm still really > > struggling how it fits with the wider global OpenSolaris > > Likewise. A lot of this depends on exactly what role the OGB will > claim for itself. The proposed Constitution gives vast, dare I say > unconscionable, power to the OGB and to my way of thinking relies far > too much on the goodness of its members and the vigilance of the > electorate to ensure proper use of that power (rather than placing > stricter limits on the OGB but giving its members greater independence > to act within those limits). The requirement for such widespread and > intimate participation in government may well turn out to be a serious > handicap in a community in which many or most participants would > rather engineer software, especially if such an unbalanced situation > arises. That's doubly true given that, so far, the balance of power > is firmly against those who "just want to write code." If this > situation persists, the OGB may need to consider structural changes to > the Constitution, assuming it's ratified. What shape those changes > might take would depend on the nature of the imbalance and the > rulemaking areas into which the OGB chooses to wade. I cannot possibly agree more with this statement. This only further supports Stephen Lau's post about why the OGB shouldn't be intimately involved in the day-to-day processes of the community (please read the full blog post here: http://whacked.net/2007/02/26/why-i-hope-the-ogb-wont-accomplish-much/). As an example, I would like to see the OGB not have to be involved in the recognition of contributors. As far as the OGB's powers: I think that the OGB's powers should be limited unless they are acting as an arbiter to resolve conflict, or to help guide the community to a decision where there is deadlock. I am heartened to see someone within SUN expressing these concerns because it continues to prove that people within SUN care very much about a genuine, vibrant community existing around this project. (Not that I have ever been given reason to believe otherwise...) -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From webmink at sun.com Mon Mar 5 15:38:46 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 23:38:46 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC83C9.20305@sun.com> <20070305220012.GA19604@sun.com> Message-ID: <8AD625C1-47E1-4855-ACD7-3D3E106E0279@sun.com> On Mar 5, 2007, at 23:17, Shawn Walker wrote: > I cannot possibly agree more with this statement. This only further > supports Stephen Lau's post about why the OGB shouldn't be intimately > involved in the day-to-day processes of the community (please read the > full blog post here: > http://whacked.net/2007/02/26/why-i-hope-the-ogb-wont-accomplish- > much/). > As an example, I would like to see the OGB not have to be involved in > the recognition of contributors. Indeed, I agree totally. And they didn't, it was left to the Communities. The direct recognition process is an exception-handling process. > As far as the OGB's powers: I think that the OGB's powers should be > limited unless they are acting as an arbiter to resolve conflict, or > to help guide the community to a decision where there is deadlock. This has been my consistent position throughout the OGB's tenure and I believe that it's what the Governance says, as far as that's possible. While it's gratifying to see all this interest in the governance, I only wish it had been expressed several months ago when requested. S. From roland.mainz at nrubsig.org Mon Mar 5 16:37:27 2007 From: roland.mainz at nrubsig.org (Roland Mainz) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 01:37:27 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] I decline... ;-( Message-ID: <45ECB7C7.6FE81877@nrubsig.org> Hi! ---- I certainly appreciate the honor of a nomination, and I'm interested in the work of the OGB (or better: I really wish I could do something like that...), but given that I need a normal job first (to get some food) I feel I must decline for this round. I am sorry for that... ;-( ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz at nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From dclarke at blastwave.org Mon Mar 5 16:59:40 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 19:59:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <8A9E7EE4-1944-4C75-9E7C-F75ABB415F6B@sun.com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <8A9E7EE4-1944-4C75-9E7C-F75ABB415F6B@sun.com> Message-ID: <27639.66.225.151.225.1173142780.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > On Mar 5, 2007, at 22:43, Dennis Clarke wrote: >>> On Mar 5, 2007, at 17:45, Rich Teer wrote: >>>> FWIW, my feelings are that we should take silence as dissent (i.e., >>>> a declination). >> Don't be so quick to make that assumption. > > It seems reasonable to view someone who, after many reminders, has > not accepted their nomination by the time the announced deadline > comes round, to have silently opted out. What is your alternative > proposal? Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. I thought that you had intended that a non-response at any time, either after or before the cut off time, was to be considered a clear "decline". Its been a long day and I was thinking that you meant that I was in a "decline" state simply because I had not filed the "accept" note yet. I think that the cutoff date, at midnight PST is definately the actual cutoff date and thou shalt not "accept" thereafter. That would be only fair to all involved I think. Now then, onto other matters; my nomination. I have been wringing my hands since Darren Moffat provided the "second" early this morning. I take the OpenSolaris project to heart and I am quite passionate about my stance on open source software. I am often misunderstood or just outright a boat rocker at times. Fallible and often wrong in fact. I simply need to consider some very important factors and then ensure that I can dedicate the time and the energy required. I really *want* to be involved and there are so many things that I can do. That I want to do or at least make attempts and appeals to others to help also. Will I be able to .. is the issue on my mind. Let me sit with a cup of coffee, maybe take a drive and then I be back in a few hours. Its real cold outside and the snow will help. - Dennis Clarke From rich.teer at rite-group.com Mon Mar 5 17:03:53 2007 From: rich.teer at rite-group.com (Rich Teer) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:03:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Dennis Clarke wrote: > > On Mar 5, 2007, at 17:45, Rich Teer wrote: > > > >> FWIW, my feelings are that we should take silence as dissent (i.e., > >> a declination). > > Don't be so quick to make that assumption. I should have been more precise. I was specifically thinking of the time when nominations have closed, and the ballot is being drawn up, and the nominee still hasn't responded. -- Rich Teer, SCSA, SCNA, SCSECA, OpenSolaris CAB member CEO, My Online Home Inventory Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URLs: http://www.rite-group.com/rich http://www.myonlinehomeinventory.com From dclarke at blastwave.org Mon Mar 5 17:10:58 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 20:10:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: <27706.66.225.151.225.1173143458.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Dennis Clarke wrote: > >> > On Mar 5, 2007, at 17:45, Rich Teer wrote: >> > >> >> FWIW, my feelings are that we should take silence as dissent (i.e., >> >> a declination). >> >> Don't be so quick to make that assumption. > > I should have been more precise. I was specifically thinking of the > time when nominations have closed, and the ballot is being drawn up, > and the nominee still hasn't responded. oh ... [ insert silly look on my face here ] Dennis From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 18:12:16 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:12:16 +0900 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> <45ec919f.DdJQLrQT4QRya5U3%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <45ec94b4.BWFcmbuK/Lzonr+z%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <45ECCE00.8060404@sun.com> Al Hopper wrote: > On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Joerg Schilling wrote: > > >>Al Hopper wrote: >> >> >>>On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Joerg Schilling wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Simon Phipps wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>Candidates who wish to accept their nomination should write to cab- >>>>>discuss at opensolaris.org immediately with a message that includes the >>>>>phrase "I accept" in a suitable context. >>>> >>>>I did send an "I accept" mail to cab-discuss at opensolaris.org >>>>but it seems that is was ignored.... >>>> >>>>Alan Coopersmith did reply later but is already listed at: >>>> >>>>http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ >>>> >>>>What is the reason? >>> >>>Joerg - I've been watching cab-discuss very carefully and I don't see any >>>email from you to that list. I just looked through the archives at: >>> >>>http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=17 >>> >> >>I asume that my mail has been blocked by the mailer at opensolaris.org > > > And I just received a "block" of messages that arrived within a couple of > Seconds - including the one you're referring to - that look like they were > posted some time ago. Actually some of them were CCed to osol-discuss and > appeared on that list hours ago. I'll ask the infrastructure folks to > determine the reason for this unexpected behavior. > > After examining the email headers, I see one common link that might > explain the behavior: > > X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 14:08:08 -0800 > > and then all the emails in the block were sent in the next 2 Seconds. > > So it looks like the list is moderated!?? If you are not subscribed to the list, your message probably got sucked into moderation -- along with all the spam. All the lists have moderators for spam. I sent a Joerg message through early this morning Tokyo time and I regularly clean the CAB list. Sometimes, though, a message will get deleted along with all the spam. I apologize if that's what happened here. I usually check carefully, even on very low traffic lists like cab-discuss. Jim > I can put my view of the raw (email) data up on a webserver if anyone is > interested in looking through the headers. In the meantime we'll ask the > infrastructure folks to "fix" it. > > Regards, > > Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com > Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT > OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 > OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 > _______________________________________________ > cab-discuss mailing list > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org From mgerdts at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 19:16:50 2007 From: mgerdts at gmail.com (Mike Gerdts) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 21:16:50 -0600 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: nomination In-Reply-To: References: <45D3A294.9080305@sun.com> <45D3E43B.5040305@tadpole.com> Message-ID: <65f8f3ad0703051916o17733f82ne2ff444ab0700b5f@mail.gmail.com> On 3/4/07, David.Comay at sun.com wrote: > > In addition, several other OpenSolaris community members come to mind, who, > > to my knowledge, have been very involved, productive, and helpful. > > Therefore, I'd like to nominate the following: > > > Mike Gerdts > > I second this nomination for the OpenSolaris Governing Board. > > dsc Thank you Eric and David for the nomination and second. I accept the nomination. Mike -- Mike Gerdts http://mgerdts.blogspot.com/ From al at logical-approach.com Mon Mar 5 19:51:27 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 21:51:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] I accept In-Reply-To: <45EC66D4.4020005@systemnews.com> References: <45EC66D4.4020005@systemnews.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, John J. McLaughlin wrote: > I am happy to accept the nomination to the OpenSolaris Governing Board. > Seconded. Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From dclarke at blastwave.org Mon Mar 5 21:07:04 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 00:07:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cab-discuss] I accept Message-ID: <44005.72.39.216.186.1173157624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> I am happy to accept the nomination to the OpenSolaris Governing Board. Dennis Clarke From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 21:38:38 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:38:38 +0900 Subject: [cab-discuss] I accept In-Reply-To: <44005.72.39.216.186.1173157624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> References: <44005.72.39.216.186.1173157624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: <45ECFE5E.8070609@sun.com> Dennis Clarke wrote: > > I am happy to accept the nomination to the OpenSolaris Governing Board. > > Dennis Clarke Excellent. From Casper.Dik at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 23:15:27 2007 From: Casper.Dik at Sun.COM (Casper.Dik at Sun.COM) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 08:15:27 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> > >> >> On Mar 5, 2007, at 17:45, Rich Teer wrote: >> >>> FWIW, my feelings are that we should take silence as dissent (i.e., >>> a declination). > >Don't be so quick to make that assumption. I don't think that is an "assumption"; it is just that it is improper to put people up for election who have not explicitely agreed to it. So +1 from me. Casper From John.Plocher at Sun.COM Mon Mar 5 23:46:57 2007 From: John.Plocher at Sun.COM (John Plocher) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 13:16:57 +0530 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: > I don't think that is an "assumption"; it is just that it is improper > to put people up for election who have not explicitely agreed to it. If so, how do write-in candidates work? In my experience, if a write-in is "elected", they are asked after the election whether they wish to serve. The beauty of STV is that the election can still generate a predictable outcome if the answer is "no". I *assume* that the STV mechanism we are using allows write-in candidates. If it does not, it is a fatal flaw and must be fixed. -John From webmink at sun.com Tue Mar 6 03:25:48 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:25:48 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> Message-ID: <2BB246D9-FD0A-4F2C-9968-D23EB285375B@sun.com> On Mar 6, 2007, at 07:46, John Plocher wrote: > Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: >> I don't think that is an "assumption"; it is just that it is improper >> to put people up for election who have not explicitely agreed to it. > > > If so, how do write-in candidates work? > > In my experience, if a write-in is "elected", they > are asked after the election whether they wish to > serve. > > The beauty of STV is that the election can still > generate a predictable outcome if the answer is "no". > > I *assume* that the STV mechanism we are using allows > write-in candidates. If it does not, it is a fatal > flaw and must be fixed. Another job for the new OGB. S. From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Tue Mar 6 07:38:22 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 07:38:22 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <8AD625C1-47E1-4855-ACD7-3D3E106E0279@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <20070305182011.GB9224@sun.com> <45EC83C9.20305@sun.com> <20070305220012.GA19604@sun.com> <8AD625C1-47E1-4855-ACD7-3D3E106E0279@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070306153816.GA18146@sun.com> On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 11:38:46PM +0000, Simon Phipps wrote: > Indeed, I agree totally. And they didn't, it was left to the > Communities. The direct recognition process is an exception-handling > process. Yes; the volume of requests just makes it clear that we need a higher-level exception-handling process for broken Communities (at least). > While it's gratifying to see all this interest in the governance, I > only wish it had been expressed several months ago when requested. You may recall that I expressed reservations about several aspects of the proposed constitution during its formation. The overwhelming decision of the Working Group at that time was that these concerns could be addressed at an arbitrary later time in the form of amendments (and the proposed constitution does indeed permit doing so). That inherently means that these issues will have to be addressed as they arise and with less time for reflection than the year-plus period in which the current draft was produced. Issues are now arising, and people are now taking interest. This pattern would appear to be consistent with the Working Group's intent. It remains to be seen whether the perceived urgency of resolving these issues and/or the depth of thought given to them by the individuals concerned will be conducive to solutions superior to those the Working Group might have developed. -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From sch at eng.sun.com Tue Mar 6 09:45:59 2007 From: sch at eng.sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 09:45:59 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> Message-ID: <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> * John Plocher [2007-03-05 23:47]: > Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: > >I don't think that is an "assumption"; it is just that it is improper > >to put people up for election who have not explicitely agreed to it. > > If so, how do write-in candidates work? There's been no substantive discussion of write-in candidates before, write-in candidates by definition haven't received a public second, and write-in candidates may not be interested in serving. It's not come up in a serious discussion prior to this thread, to my recollection. > In my experience, if a write-in is "elected", they > are asked after the election whether they wish to > serve. > > The beauty of STV is that the election can still > generate a predictable outcome if the answer is "no". > > I *assume* that the STV mechanism we are using allows > write-in candidates. If it does not, it is a fatal > flaw and must be fixed. ("Fatal flaw." Seriously?) Since it's not been presented as a requirement, there should be no surprise, then, in finding that the software does not support write-ins as an option. (It could be easy to add, but I don't understand what problem is being solved, given all the problems it can also introduce.) - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Tue Mar 6 11:42:54 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:42:54 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> Message-ID: <45EDC43E.1060906@sun.com> Hi, Stephen Hahn wrote: >> I *assume* that the STV mechanism we are using allows >> write-in candidates. If it does not, it is a fatal >> flaw and must be fixed. > > ("Fatal flaw." Seriously?) > > Since it's not been presented as a requirement, there should be no > surprise, then, in finding that the software does not support > write-ins as an option. (It could be easy to add, but I don't > understand what problem is being solved, given all the problems it can > also introduce.) Yeah, seriously. Look at ourselves. We're a small, small open source community trying to act like a large country. Can't anyone appreciate the KISS principle here? This election should have been finished by now, but we've complicated it beyond belief. It would have been *so* much easier if we could just decide on simple nomination procedure, simplified STV mechanism and get the OGB elected so they can provide *real value*. Right now we're in overkill mode and it's sucking badly. Glynn From fielding at gbiv.com Tue Mar 6 13:30:56 2007 From: fielding at gbiv.com (Roy T. Fielding) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 13:30:56 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> Message-ID: On Mar 5, 2007, at 11:46 PM, John Plocher wrote: > Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: >> I don't think that is an "assumption"; it is just that it is improper >> to put people up for election who have not explicitely agreed to it. Right. > If so, how do write-in candidates work? > > In my experience, if a write-in is "elected", they > are asked after the election whether they wish to > serve. No. The typical "write-in" process found in local government elections is that a named candidate who has been certified to stand as a candidate *after* the ballot has been printed can be voted for by write-in. Anyone else's name placed on the write-in space will invalidate the entire ballot. See, for example, http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_cand.htm > The beauty of STV is that the election can still > generate a predictable outcome if the answer is "no". People are not computers. They are influenced by the presence or absence of people on the ballot, and often use that as motivation for participating in the election process. > I *assume* that the STV mechanism we are using allows > write-in candidates. If it does not, it is a fatal > flaw and must be fixed. No. I don't know of any organization that allows write-in candidates for serious elections. Certainly not for elections where nomination has to be seconded. ....Roy From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Tue Mar 6 15:50:27 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 17:50:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Overview (rollup) of recent activity on cab-discuss Message-ID: For background on what this is, see: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/message.jspa?messageID=24416#24416 http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/message.jspa?messageID=25200#25200 ============================= cab-discuss 02/16 - 02/28 ============================= Size of all threads during period: Thread size Topic ----------- ----- 25 test questions to test OGB election process (presented as a poll) 19 election calendar decision reqd 10 nomination 6 Jim Grisanzio for Governing Board 5 election schedule 5 Nomination 4 Request to be recognised as a core contributor 4 Nominating James McPherson for OGB 2 poll.opensolaris.org: First grant load 2 GSoC 1 recognized as a core contributor 1 OGB Nomination :: Glynn Foster 1 Draft poll.opensolaris.org instructions 1 Draft minutes, 14 February 2007 ================================================================ Posting activity by person for period: # of posts By ---------- -------------------------------------------------- 11 al at logical-approach.com (al hopper) 9 sch at eng.sun.com (stephen hahn) 7 eric.boutilier at sun.com (eric boutilier) 5 glynn.foster at sun.com (glynn foster) 4 keith.wesolowski at sun.com (keith m wesolowski) 4 garrett_damore at tadpole.com (garrett d'amore) 3 rich.teer at rite-group.com (rich teer) 3 ian at ianshome.com (ian collins) 3 alan.coopersmith at sun.com (alan coopersmith) 2 webmink at sun.com (simon phipps) 2 stevel at sun.com (stephen lau) 2 sommerfeld at sun.com (bill sommerfeld) 2 roland.mainz at nrubsig.org (roland mainz) 2 rlhamil at smart.net (richard l. hamilton) 2 richlowe at richlowe.net (richard lowe) 2 john.plocher at sun.com (john plocher) 2 jim.grisanzio at sun.com (jim grisanzio) 2 james.mcpherson at sun.com (james c. mcpherson) 2 garrett at damore.org (garrett d'amore) 2 fielding at gbiv.com (roy t. fielding) 2 dclarke at blastwave.org (dennis clarke) 2 david.comay at sun.com (david comay) 2 casper.dik at sun.com (casper dik) 2 binarycrusader at gmail.com (shawn walker) 2 benr at cuddletech.com (ben rockwood) 1 teresa.giacomini at sun.com (teresa giacomini) 1 susan.weber at sun.com (susan weber) 1 sherry.moore at sun.com (sherry moore) 1 michelle.olson at sun.com (michelle olson) 1 kewenlong at gmail.com (kewenlong) 1 josh at jmctech.com.au (joshua clulow) 1 johansen-osdev at sun.com (johansen-osdev) ================================================================ Discussion URL: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=17 Main URL: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/ From binarycrusader at gmail.com Tue Mar 6 18:51:22 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:51:22 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Short Biography & OGB Election Statement Message-ID: Greetings, I have posted a short biography here: http://www.opensolaris.org/viewProfile.jspa?username=swalker I have also blogged about my position in regards to the OGB here: http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/2007/03/opensolaris-2007-ogb-election-statement.html Thanks, -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From Alan.Coopersmith at Sun.COM Tue Mar 6 23:09:15 2007 From: Alan.Coopersmith at Sun.COM (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:09:15 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EC665F.4070800@gmx.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <45EC617E.7020300@gmx.com> <45EC665F.4070800@gmx.com> Message-ID: <45EE651B.50100@sun.com> Martin Bochnig wrote: > Situation BEFORE I released my binaries: > http://blogs.sun.com/alanc/entry/xorg_for_solaris_sparc > Situation AFTER my various postings to > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/x_win/discussions/ : > You released Xorg for SPARC by yourself (limited to the wsfb driver) : > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/x_win/announcements/ While your work is appreciated, and may someday form our solution for older devices, it didn't really have a bearing there. We've been building Xorg on Solaris SPARC since we first created the Xorg 6.8 tree for Solaris 10 - we just never released the packages because there were no drivers. The delivery now was due to two reasons: 1) The manager of the SPARC graphics group asked me to, since they were getting near the point they'd be ready to test their XVR-2500 driver and didn't want to have to worry about coordination issues in whatever build they're ready to deliver. (I still can't tell you when that will be - I've seen it running on a test system in one of their engineer's offices, but it definitely needs more work still). 2) When looking at some of the putbacks to the X.Org community by the maintainers of the wsfb driver for BSD I noticed the interface looked very similar to the Solaris /dev/fb interface, and a couple of months later, finally got a chance to try porting it. It worked well enough to serve as a test case so we could at least test Xorg on SPARC with some sort of real hardware so we wouldn't be delivering untested code to Solaris. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From John.Plocher at Sun.COM Wed Mar 7 03:42:06 2007 From: John.Plocher at Sun.COM (John Plocher) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 17:12:06 +0530 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> Message-ID: <45EEA50E.2080701@Sun.Com> Stephen Hahn wrote: > ("Fatal flaw." Seriously?) I'd file it as a P1 bug because it gratuitously excludes representation when there is no demonstrated need for such exclusion. The question is "how to get the best people onto the OGB". This means we need to get the best people we can find (or who can find us) on the slate. The nomination mechanism used here seems biased towards those who follow the various general OS.o aliases. There was very little exposure on the OS.o homepage (just a link down at the bottom of the page to Al's announcement message (which has had all its internal links to background info removed)). I'm worried about the "I've been busy and don't follow those aliases, but..." types of responses we've seen that indicate that many of the "do-ers" in the community aren't paying attention to these discussion venues. I'm also worried about whether we have biased our nominations towards those who "talk" a lot, and if we are missing qualified people who don't have that high name recognition. It seems clear to me that the set of [potential well qualified OGB members] is a superset of those subscribed to the various OS.o aliases. But the call for nominations didn't reach those who were not on those aliases. A write-in mechanism allows those who were missed to be included. If Dennis Clarke had not nominated John J. McLaughlin, would there have been /any/ possibility of his being on a future OGB? Was it only chance that put him on the list? What other "Duh! Of Course!" candidates did we miss? Is this fatal? Not exactly; we most certainly will be able to select a new OGB out of the existing 20 or so nominees, so the process will technically work. With write-ins, it would simply work better. Are the chances great that a write-in could win? With 20+ "official candidates", general unfamiliarity with STV mechanisms and 7 open slots being decided by ~250 voters, I predict that the "last couple" of seats will be decided by just a few votes. Thus, a write-in who got 5 to 10 votes might potentially win a seat. A long shot, but... -John From mb1x at gmx.com Wed Mar 7 03:46:58 2007 From: mb1x at gmx.com (Martin Bochnig) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 12:46:58 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: <45EE651B.50100@sun.com> References: <1939211.1173116480275.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <45EC5B38.9060300@sun.com> <45EC617E.7020300@gmx.com> <45EC665F.4070800@gmx.com> <45EE651B.50100@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EEA632.4090603@gmx.com> Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Martin Bochnig wrote: > >> Situation BEFORE I released my binaries: >> http://blogs.sun.com/alanc/entry/xorg_for_solaris_sparc >> Situation AFTER my various postings to >> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/x_win/discussions/ : >> You released Xorg for SPARC by yourself (limited to the wsfb driver) : >> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/x_win/announcements/ > > > While your work is appreciated, and may someday form our solution for > older devices, it didn't really have a bearing there. > > We've been building Xorg on Solaris SPARC since we first created the > Xorg 6.8 tree for Solaris 10 - we just never released the packages > because there were no drivers. Aha, you never told. Didn't you always say (i.e. in IRC), the server binary would not compile on/for sparc? Okay, maybe you just couldn't disclose too many of the internal goings. Okay. > > The delivery now was due to two reasons: > > 1) The manager of the SPARC graphics group asked me to, since they > were getting near the point they'd be ready to test their > XVR-2500 driver and didn't want to have to worry about coordination > issues in whatever build they're ready to deliver. (I still can't > tell you when that will be - I've seen it running on a test system > in one of their engineer's offices, but it definitely needs more > work still). > > 2) When looking at some of the putbacks to the X.Org community by the > maintainers of the wsfb driver for BSD I noticed the interface > looked very similar to the Solaris /dev/fb interface, and a couple > of months later, finally got a chance to try porting it. It worked > well enough to serve as a test case so we could at least test Xorg > on SPARC with some sort of real hardware so we wouldn't be delivering > untested code to Solaris. > Okay. You get it as soon as I have ported the patch to 7.2 . (DEADLINE: March31st, I need PRESSURE and specific dates, therefore) Thanks and regards, Martin From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Mar 7 12:11:45 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:11:45 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <45EEA50E.2080701@Sun.Com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> <45EEA50E.2080701@Sun.Com> Message-ID: <45EF1C81.3060104@sun.com> Hi, John Plocher wrote: > Stephen Hahn wrote: >> ("Fatal flaw." Seriously?) > > I'd file it as a P1 bug because it gratuitously > excludes representation when there is no demonstrated > need for such exclusion. > > The question is "how to get the best people onto the > OGB". This means we need to get the best people we > can find (or who can find us) on the slate. > > The nomination mechanism used here seems biased towards > those who follow the various general OS.o aliases. > There was very little exposure on the OS.o homepage > (just a link down at the bottom of the page to Al's > announcement message (which has had all its internal > links to background info removed)). Oh come on. Anyone who has an interest in the OpenSolaris project as a whole should have a fairly good idea there are elections happening. It hasn't just been the topic of the many discussion lists out there, but also in blogs, corridor discussions, etc.. Anyone who doesn't know about it may not have had the interest in the project as we would have liked. The maybe that's my association that the best people are always the ones who actually care about the project and those who put in the hard yards up front. Glynn From Menno.Lageman at Sun.COM Wed Mar 7 12:27:20 2007 From: Menno.Lageman at Sun.COM (Menno Lageman) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:27:20 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <45EF1C81.3060104@sun.com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> <45EEA50E.2080701@Sun.Com> <45EF1C81.3060104@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EF2028.9080402@sun.com> Glynn Foster wrote: > Hi, > > John Plocher wrote: >> Stephen Hahn wrote: >>> ("Fatal flaw." Seriously?) >> I'd file it as a P1 bug because it gratuitously >> excludes representation when there is no demonstrated >> need for such exclusion. >> >> The question is "how to get the best people onto the >> OGB". This means we need to get the best people we >> can find (or who can find us) on the slate. >> >> The nomination mechanism used here seems biased towards >> those who follow the various general OS.o aliases. >> There was very little exposure on the OS.o homepage >> (just a link down at the bottom of the page to Al's >> announcement message (which has had all its internal >> links to background info removed)). > > Oh come on. Anyone who has an interest in the OpenSolaris project as a whole > should have a fairly good idea there are elections happening. It hasn't just > been the topic of the many discussion lists out there, but also in blogs, > corridor discussions, etc.. > > Anyone who doesn't know about it may not have had the interest in the project as > we would have liked. The maybe that's my association that the best people are > always the ones who actually care about the project and those who put in the > hard yards up front. > Well, looking at www.opensolaris.org, I don't see any mention of the elections there.... I would *at least* expect to see them listed under 'Announcements'. There seems to be an enormous amount of time being invested on procedures surrounding the elections, but much less on publicizing them. Menno -- Menno Lageman http://blogs.sun.com/menno Sun Microsystems From webmink at sun.com Wed Mar 7 13:04:01 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:04:01 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <45EF2028.9080402@sun.com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> <45EEA50E.2080701@Sun.Com> <45EF1C81.3060104@sun.com> <45EF2028.9080402@sun.com> Message-ID: <6CAE347C-14D7-47D9-A2BF-2AC839F4262B@sun.com> On Mar 7, 2007, at 20:27, Menno Lageman wrote: > Glynn Foster wrote: >> Hi, >> John Plocher wrote: >>> Stephen Hahn wrote: >>>> ("Fatal flaw." Seriously?) >>> I'd file it as a P1 bug because it gratuitously >>> excludes representation when there is no demonstrated >>> need for such exclusion. >>> >>> The question is "how to get the best people onto the >>> OGB". This means we need to get the best people we >>> can find (or who can find us) on the slate. >>> >>> The nomination mechanism used here seems biased towards >>> those who follow the various general OS.o aliases. >>> There was very little exposure on the OS.o homepage >>> (just a link down at the bottom of the page to Al's >>> announcement message (which has had all its internal >>> links to background info removed)). >> Oh come on. Anyone who has an interest in the OpenSolaris project >> as a whole >> should have a fairly good idea there are elections happening. It >> hasn't just >> been the topic of the many discussion lists out there, but also in >> blogs, >> corridor discussions, etc.. >> Anyone who doesn't know about it may not have had the interest in >> the project as >> we would have liked. The maybe that's my association that the best >> people are >> always the ones who actually care about the project and those who >> put in the >> hard yards up front. > > Well, looking at www.opensolaris.org, I don't see any mention of > the elections there.... I would *at least* expect to see them > listed under 'Announcements'. There seems to be an enormous amount > of time being invested on procedures surrounding the elections, but > much less on publicizing them. I agree. The OGB just asked Stephen Hahn to get that fixed. S. From derek.cicero at sun.com Wed Mar 7 13:05:33 2007 From: derek.cicero at sun.com (Derek Cicero) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 13:05:33 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <6CAE347C-14D7-47D9-A2BF-2AC839F4262B@sun.com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> <45EEA50E.2080701@Sun.Com> <45EF1C81.3060104@sun.com> <45EF2028.9080402@sun.com> <6CAE347C-14D7-47D9-A2BF-2AC839F4262B@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EF291D.2090602@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Mar 7, 2007, at 20:27, Menno Lageman wrote: > >> Glynn Foster wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> John Plocher wrote: >>> >>>> Stephen Hahn wrote: >>>> >>>>> ("Fatal flaw." Seriously?) >>>> >>>> I'd file it as a P1 bug because it gratuitously >>>> excludes representation when there is no demonstrated >>>> need for such exclusion. >>>> >>>> The question is "how to get the best people onto the >>>> OGB". This means we need to get the best people we >>>> can find (or who can find us) on the slate. >>>> >>>> The nomination mechanism used here seems biased towards >>>> those who follow the various general OS.o aliases. >>>> There was very little exposure on the OS.o homepage >>>> (just a link down at the bottom of the page to Al's >>>> announcement message (which has had all its internal >>>> links to background info removed)). >>> >>> Oh come on. Anyone who has an interest in the OpenSolaris project as >>> a whole >>> should have a fairly good idea there are elections happening. It >>> hasn't just >>> been the topic of the many discussion lists out there, but also in >>> blogs, >>> corridor discussions, etc.. >>> Anyone who doesn't know about it may not have had the interest in >>> the project as >>> we would have liked. The maybe that's my association that the best >>> people are >>> always the ones who actually care about the project and those who >>> put in the >>> hard yards up front. >> >> >> Well, looking at www.opensolaris.org, I don't see any mention of the >> elections there.... I would *at least* expect to see them listed >> under 'Announcements'. There seems to be an enormous amount of time >> being invested on procedures surrounding the elections, but much less >> on publicizing them. > > > I agree. The OGB just asked Stephen Hahn to get that fixed. It's the fist announcement listed. Or am I missing something? Derek > > S. > > _______________________________________________ > cab-discuss mailing list > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org > -- Derek Cicero Program Manager Solaris Kernel Group, Software Division From webmink at sun.com Wed Mar 7 13:13:24 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:13:24 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <45EF291D.2090602@sun.com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> <45EEA50E.2080701@Sun.Com> <45EF1C81.3060104@sun.com> <45EF2028.9080402@sun.com> <6CAE347C-14D7-47D9-A2BF-2AC839F4262B@sun.com> <45EF291D.2090602@sun.com> Message-ID: <3F9CAE61-0188-4D83-94D4-07F1709DC18A@sun.com> On Mar 7, 2007, at 21:05, Derek Cicero wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: >> On Mar 7, 2007, at 20:27, Menno Lageman wrote: >>> Glynn Foster wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> John Plocher wrote: >>>> >>>>> Stephen Hahn wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> ("Fatal flaw." Seriously?) >>>>> >>>>> I'd file it as a P1 bug because it gratuitously >>>>> excludes representation when there is no demonstrated >>>>> need for such exclusion. >>>>> >>>>> The question is "how to get the best people onto the >>>>> OGB". This means we need to get the best people we >>>>> can find (or who can find us) on the slate. >>>>> >>>>> The nomination mechanism used here seems biased towards >>>>> those who follow the various general OS.o aliases. >>>>> There was very little exposure on the OS.o homepage >>>>> (just a link down at the bottom of the page to Al's >>>>> announcement message (which has had all its internal >>>>> links to background info removed)). >>>> >>>> Oh come on. Anyone who has an interest in the OpenSolaris >>>> project as a whole >>>> should have a fairly good idea there are elections happening. >>>> It hasn't just >>>> been the topic of the many discussion lists out there, but also >>>> in blogs, >>>> corridor discussions, etc.. >>>> Anyone who doesn't know about it may not have had the interest >>>> in the project as >>>> we would have liked. The maybe that's my association that the >>>> best people are >>>> always the ones who actually care about the project and those >>>> who put in the >>>> hard yards up front. >>> >>> >>> Well, looking at www.opensolaris.org, I don't see any mention of >>> the elections there.... I would *at least* expect to see them >>> listed under 'Announcements'. There seems to be an enormous >>> amount of time being invested on procedures surrounding the >>> elections, but much less on publicizing them. >> I agree. The OGB just asked Stephen Hahn to get that fixed. > > It's the fist announcement listed. Or am I missing something? I think Menno meant "the little boxes at the top right of the page" by "announcements". That's where we've asked Stephen to make sure an announcement, with links, is kept up-to-date over the next week or so. S. From derek.cicero at sun.com Wed Mar 7 13:17:18 2007 From: derek.cicero at sun.com (Derek Cicero) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 13:17:18 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <3F9CAE61-0188-4D83-94D4-07F1709DC18A@sun.com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> <45EEA50E.2080701@Sun.Com> <45EF1C81.3060104@sun.com> <45EF2028.9080402@sun.com> <6CAE347C-14D7-47D9-A2BF-2AC839F4262B@sun.com> <45EF291D.2090602@sun.com> <3F9CAE61-0188-4D83-94D4-07F1709DC18A@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EF2BDE.1060000@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Mar 7, 2007, at 21:05, Derek Cicero wrote: > >> Simon Phipps wrote: >> >>> On Mar 7, 2007, at 20:27, Menno Lageman wrote: >>> >>>> Glynn Foster wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> John Plocher wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Stephen Hahn wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> ("Fatal flaw." Seriously?) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd file it as a P1 bug because it gratuitously >>>>>> excludes representation when there is no demonstrated >>>>>> need for such exclusion. >>>>>> >>>>>> The question is "how to get the best people onto the >>>>>> OGB". This means we need to get the best people we >>>>>> can find (or who can find us) on the slate. >>>>>> >>>>>> The nomination mechanism used here seems biased towards >>>>>> those who follow the various general OS.o aliases. >>>>>> There was very little exposure on the OS.o homepage >>>>>> (just a link down at the bottom of the page to Al's >>>>>> announcement message (which has had all its internal >>>>>> links to background info removed)). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Oh come on. Anyone who has an interest in the OpenSolaris project >>>>> as a whole >>>>> should have a fairly good idea there are elections happening. It >>>>> hasn't just >>>>> been the topic of the many discussion lists out there, but also >>>>> in blogs, >>>>> corridor discussions, etc.. >>>>> Anyone who doesn't know about it may not have had the interest in >>>>> the project as >>>>> we would have liked. The maybe that's my association that the >>>>> best people are >>>>> always the ones who actually care about the project and those who >>>>> put in the >>>>> hard yards up front. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, looking at www.opensolaris.org, I don't see any mention of >>>> the elections there.... I would *at least* expect to see them >>>> listed under 'Announcements'. There seems to be an enormous amount >>>> of time being invested on procedures surrounding the elections, >>>> but much less on publicizing them. >>> >>> I agree. The OGB just asked Stephen Hahn to get that fixed. >> >> >> It's the fist announcement listed. Or am I missing something? > > > I think Menno meant "the little boxes at the top right of the page" by > "announcements". That's where we've asked Stephen to make sure an > announcement, with links, is kept up-to-date over the next week or so. Ah. I'll get the info from him and add that. Derek > > S. > > > -- Derek Cicero Program Manager Solaris Kernel Group, Software Division From Menno.Lageman at Sun.COM Wed Mar 7 13:20:49 2007 From: Menno.Lageman at Sun.COM (Menno Lageman) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:20:49 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <45EF291D.2090602@sun.com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> <45EEA50E.2080701@Sun.Com> <45EF1C81.3060104@sun.com> <45EF2028.9080402@sun.com> <6CAE347C-14D7-47D9-A2BF-2AC839F4262B@sun.com> <45EF291D.2090602@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EF2CB1.80009@sun.com> Derek Cicero wrote: >>> >>> Well, looking at www.opensolaris.org, I don't see any mention of the >>> elections there.... I would *at least* expect to see them listed >>> under 'Announcements'. There seems to be an enormous amount of time >>> being invested on procedures surrounding the elections, but much >>> less on publicizing them. >> >> >> I agree. The OGB just asked Stephen Hahn to get that fixed. > > It's the fist announcement listed. Or am I missing something? > For me it looks like this: Announcements Events 07 Mar 2007 Technical Symposium on Computer Science Education (SIGCSE) 12 Apr 2007 Forum Internacional Software Livre 8.0 08 May 2007 JavaOne Conference 2007 17 Jun 2007 DebConf7 23 Jul 2007 The O'Reilly Open Source Convention Menno -- Menno Lageman http://blogs.sun.com/menno Sun Microsystems From Menno.Lageman at Sun.COM Wed Mar 7 13:32:54 2007 From: Menno.Lageman at Sun.COM (Menno Lageman) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:32:54 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <3F9CAE61-0188-4D83-94D4-07F1709DC18A@sun.com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> <45EEA50E.2080701@Sun.Com> <45EF1C81.3060104@sun.com> <45EF2028.9080402@sun.com> <6CAE347C-14D7-47D9-A2BF-2AC839F4262B@sun.com> <45EF291D.2090602@sun.com> <3F9CAE61-0188-4D83-94D4-07F1709DC18A@sun.com> Message-ID: <45EF2F86.4040909@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>> Well, looking at www.opensolaris.org, I don't see any mention of >>>> the elections there.... I would *at least* expect to see them >>>> listed under 'Announcements'. There seems to be an enormous amount >>>> of time being invested on procedures surrounding the elections, but >>>> much less on publicizing them. >>> I agree. The OGB just asked Stephen Hahn to get that fixed. >> >> It's the fist announcement listed. Or am I missing something? > > I think Menno meant "the little boxes at the top right of the page" by > "announcements". That's where we've asked Stephen to make sure an > announcement, with links, is kept up-to-date over the next week or so. > I think we're talking about different 'announcements' as I don't have little boxes at the top right of the mentioning announcements. I'm looking at www.opensolaris.org which redirects me to www.opensolaris.org/os which in turn only has Announcements in the middle column. Menno -- Menno Lageman http://blogs.sun.com/menno Sun Microsystems From webmink at Sun.COM Wed Mar 7 13:38:42 2007 From: webmink at Sun.COM (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:38:42 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB candidate policy question In-Reply-To: <45EF2F86.4040909@sun.com> References: <27233.66.225.151.225.1173134608.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <200703060715.l267FSG5013151@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45ED1C71.1010205@Sun.Com> <20070306174559.GA16099@eng.sun.com> <45EEA50E.2080701@Sun.Com> <45EF1C81.3060104@sun.com> <45EF2028.9080402@sun.com> <6CAE347C-14D7-47D9-A2BF-2AC839F4262B@sun.com> <45EF291D.2090602@sun.com> <3F9CAE61-0188-4D83-94D4-07F1709DC18A@sun.com> <45EF2F86.4040909@sun.com> Message-ID: <3CBBB655-B391-40D4-BC81-BFD4459778A3@Sun.COM> On Mar 7, 2007, at 21:32, Menno Lageman wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: > >>>>> Well, looking at www.opensolaris.org, I don't see any mention >>>>> of the elections there.... I would *at least* expect to see >>>>> them listed under 'Announcements'. There seems to be an >>>>> enormous amount of time being invested on procedures >>>>> surrounding the elections, but much less on publicizing them. >>>> I agree. The OGB just asked Stephen Hahn to get that fixed. >>> >>> It's the fist announcement listed. Or am I missing something? >> I think Menno meant "the little boxes at the top right of the >> page" by "announcements". That's where we've asked Stephen to make >> sure an announcement, with links, is kept up-to-date over the next >> week or so. > > I think we're talking about different 'announcements' as I don't > have little boxes at the top right of the mentioning announcements. > I'm looking at www.opensolaris.org which redirects me to > www.opensolaris.org/os which in turn only has Announcements in the > middle column. I think you have a technical issue since that's not the way the page looks on the systems I'm using (a US-hosted SunRay and a UK-hosted laptop). Can I suggest you correspond with Derek 1:1? S. From al at logical-approach.com Wed Mar 7 15:10:54 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 17:10:54 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] ballot test ques presented as a poll Message-ID: Stephen, Here is an updated and shortened list of questions to use for the OpenSolaris voting system. Feel free to change the verbage/format as necessary to accommodate your voting software. ------------ Instructions to test voters: Please examine the following list of test poll questions and vote on them in *priority* order. Remember that the voting software implements the Single Transferable Vote [1] using the Meek algorithm [2] and that you don't have to vote on every item presented. The priority order of your selection is very important. Please review the STV system before voting, if you are unfamiliar with it. ------------ OpenSolaris Test Vote/Poll: Question: Which of the following items, presented in a randomized order, should be prioritized by the OGB in order to promote OpenSolaris and increase its developer mindshare: ------------ a. deploy a public defect management system b. reorganize the existing Community/Project organization c. remove inactive Communities or Projects d. provide a SPARC based kernel/project build facility e. provide an x86/AMD64 based kernel/project build facility f. replace or remove jive interface g. create an infrastructure project to run opensolaris.org h. deploy a public Request To Integrate (RTI) system i. deploy a public code review facility on opensolaris.org j. deploy a public wiki on opensolaris.org k. replace opensolaris.org tools with an open source CMS or wiki l. eliminate reliability issues with opensolaris.org web pages ------------ [1] STV see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Transferable_Vote [2] Meek algorithm see http://sourceforge.net/projects/votesystem/ Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From webmink at sun.com Wed Mar 7 15:19:15 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:19:15 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] ballot test ques presented as a poll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mar 7, 2007, at 23:10, Al Hopper wrote: > > Stephen, > > Here is an updated and shortened list of questions to use for the > OpenSolaris voting system. Feel free to change the verbage/format as > necessary to accommodate your voting software. > > ------------ > > Instructions to test voters: Please examine the following list of > test > poll questions and vote on them in *priority* order. Remember that > the > voting software implements the Single Transferable Vote [1] using > the Meek > algorithm [2] and that you don't have to vote on every item presented. > The priority order of your selection is very important. Please > review the > STV system before voting, if you are unfamiliar with it. I suggest the best way to describe this is: "Place as many of the items as you wish to vote for into your order of preference. The voting system will use your list of chosen items and order of preference to determine the winners of the vote using the Meek variant[2] of the Single Transferable Vote[1] system." S. From bmc at eng.sun.com Wed Mar 7 15:43:19 2007 From: bmc at eng.sun.com (Bryan Cantrill) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:43:19 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Candidate mailing list? Message-ID: <20070307234319.GN12299@eng.sun.com> CAB'ies, In the DTrace community, we are interested in OGB candidates' positions on particular issues of interest to our community. Now that the field is established, is there a mail alias for us to mail all candidates? If not, could such a thing be established? Thanks in advance, Bryan -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryan Cantrill, Solaris Kernel Development. http://blogs.sun.com/bmc From bmc at eng.sun.com Wed Mar 7 16:45:40 2007 From: bmc at eng.sun.com (Bryan Cantrill) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:45:40 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Candidate mailing list? In-Reply-To: <20070308003951.GA20283@eng.sun.com> References: <20070307234319.GN12299@eng.sun.com> <20070308003951.GA20283@eng.sun.com> Message-ID: <20070308004540.GP12299@eng.sun.com> On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 04:39:51PM -0800, Stephen Hahn wrote: > * Bryan Cantrill [2007-03-07 15:47]: > > In the DTrace community, we are interested in OGB candidates' positions on > > particular issues of interest to our community. Now that the field is > > established, is there a mail alias for us to mail all candidates? If > > not, could such a thing be established? > > So, you want board-candidates-2007 at opensolaris.org to forward to each > of the candidates' registered email addresses? Or do you want a > full-fledged mailing list? Forwarding is fine -- just so I have some way of easily e-mailing all of them, and cc:'ing our community. - Bryan -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryan Cantrill, Solaris Kernel Development. http://blogs.sun.com/bmc From al at logical-approach.com Wed Mar 7 16:53:08 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 18:53:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Candidate mailing list? In-Reply-To: <20070308004540.GP12299@eng.sun.com> References: <20070307234319.GN12299@eng.sun.com> <20070308003951.GA20283@eng.sun.com> <20070308004540.GP12299@eng.sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Bryan Cantrill wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 04:39:51PM -0800, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > * Bryan Cantrill [2007-03-07 15:47]: > > > In the DTrace community, we are interested in OGB candidates' positions on > > > particular issues of interest to our community. Now that the field is > > > established, is there a mail alias for us to mail all candidates? If > > > not, could such a thing be established? > > > > So, you want board-candidates-2007 at opensolaris.org to forward to each > > of the candidates' registered email addresses? Or do you want a > > full-fledged mailing list? > > Forwarding is fine -- just so I have some way of easily e-mailing all > of them, and cc:'ing our community. > Hi Bryan, In the meantime you can snag a list of email addresses from the Candidate Status [1] table at: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ I'll send you a copy of the email addresses in a followup email in about 2 minutes. [1] where the Candidates have status marked "Accepted" Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From bmc at eng.sun.com Wed Mar 7 16:55:16 2007 From: bmc at eng.sun.com (Bryan Cantrill) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:55:16 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Candidate mailing list? In-Reply-To: References: <20070307234319.GN12299@eng.sun.com> <20070308003951.GA20283@eng.sun.com> <20070308004540.GP12299@eng.sun.com> Message-ID: <20070308005515.GQ12299@eng.sun.com> Hey Al, > In the meantime you can snag a list of email addresses from the Candidate > Status [1] table at: > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ > > I'll send you a copy of the email addresses in a followup email in about 2 > minutes. > > [1] where the Candidates have status marked "Accepted" Thank you offering to do this, and yes, I know that I can cut-and-paste it myself, but I think others may also wish to ask all of the candidates a question on a particular issue -- setting up an alias for all of them seems to be a Good Thing... - Bryan -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryan Cantrill, Solaris Kernel Development. http://blogs.sun.com/bmc From al at logical-approach.com Wed Mar 7 17:00:58 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 19:00:58 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Candidate mailing list? In-Reply-To: <20070308005515.GQ12299@eng.sun.com> References: <20070307234319.GN12299@eng.sun.com> <20070308003951.GA20283@eng.sun.com> <20070308004540.GP12299@eng.sun.com> <20070308005515.GQ12299@eng.sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2007, Bryan Cantrill wrote: > > Hey Al, > > > In the meantime you can snag a list of email addresses from the Candidate > > Status [1] table at: > > > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ > > > > I'll send you a copy of the email addresses in a followup email in about 2 > > minutes. > > > > [1] where the Candidates have status marked "Accepted" > > Thank you offering to do this, and yes, I know that I can cut-and-paste it > myself, but I think others may also wish to ask all of the candidates a > question on a particular issue -- setting up an alias for all of them seems > to be a Good Thing... Excellent idea Bryan. Show them no mercy! :) Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From al at logical-approach.com Wed Mar 7 17:58:25 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 19:58:25 -0600 (CST) Subject: core contrib status was Re: [cab-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> <45EC7C2E.4070302@gmx.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Al Hopper wrote: > On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Shawn Walker wrote: > > > On 06/03/07, Martin Bochnig wrote: > > > Why should JamesD not be considered a core contributor? > > > And - if not - at least have a right to vote? > > > > > > p.s. The whole thing really begins to disappoint me. > > > Maybe I'm not the only one. > > > > Martin, I agree that the current process for contributor recognition > > is quite different than what I have seen in other communities. > > However, this is also the first community I have been involved with > > that had a formal voting process, governance, and so on. > > > > I myself sent a request for contributor status to cab-discuss several > > days ago, had a few positive responses, and then never heard one way > > or another about what would happen from there. > > Shawn, I regret to inform you, that your request to be recognized as a > core contributor did not receive the required majority vote by the OGB. > As it stands, you did get 2 positive votes, and needed 3 (+1 votes) to get > a majority decision. > > I don't think that we have a timeout timer in effect for this type of vote > - but, by this point in time we'll call it case closed. Sorry. During todays OBG conference call we discussed your request for Core Contributor status and I am pleased announce, that by OGB majority consensus, you have been granted OpenSolaris Core Contributor status - with all the privilidges that this title confers. So why the "about face" on this grant? The primary reason was a breakdown in communications between the OGB members while we had the unusual case of three of the OGB members attending the first OpenSolaris Developers Conf in Berlin. There was no available internet connectivity at the conference. Meantime, back stateside, the remaining OGB members had no way to know that the Berlin attendees had accumulated several thousand emails which imposed another significant delay in their responding to OGB related traffic, as they worked through their email backlog. There was one more mis-understanding; several members of the OGB understood that matters related to Core Contrib grants would be deferred until the next available OGB conf call. I apologize to you Shawn for the ensuing chaos and the fact that you were left without a response for so long. PS: Also from todays meeting, Simon will publish some details of the OGBs thinking behind the Core Contrib grants and the nature of this "boot straping" process which is a one-time event designed to establish an initial voting population in order to enable a vote on the ratification of the Constitution and the OGB election. And we'll be following up with the minutes of todays meeting as soon as it is can be done. PPS: For those unfamiliar with Shawns contributions, here is the one line summary: Shawn was one of our first code contributors (SCA #4) and has offered 15 contributions to the ON consolidation, 9 of which have been integrated. Congratulations Shawn. Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From binarycrusader at gmail.com Wed Mar 7 18:22:09 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 13:22:09 +1100 Subject: core contrib status was Re: [cab-discuss] Last Day for Nominations In-Reply-To: References: <3F84FE22-63E6-489C-A445-4C847696FCA1@sun.com> <45EC7C2E.4070302@gmx.com> Message-ID: On 08/03/07, Al Hopper wrote: > On Mon, 5 Mar 2007, Al Hopper wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Shawn Walker wrote: > > > On 06/03/07, Martin Bochnig wrote: > > > > Why should JamesD not be considered a core contributor? > > > > And - if not - at least have a right to vote? > > > > > > > > p.s. The whole thing really begins to disappoint me. > > > > Maybe I'm not the only one. > > > > > > Martin, I agree that the current process for contributor recognition > > > is quite different than what I have seen in other communities. > > > However, this is also the first community I have been involved with > > > that had a formal voting process, governance, and so on. > > > > > > I myself sent a request for contributor status to cab-discuss several > > > days ago, had a few positive responses, and then never heard one way > > > or another about what would happen from there. > > > > Shawn, I regret to inform you, that your request to be recognized as a > > core contributor did not receive the required majority vote by the OGB. > > As it stands, you did get 2 positive votes, and needed 3 (+1 votes) to get > > a majority decision. > > > > I don't think that we have a timeout timer in effect for this type of vote > > - but, by this point in time we'll call it case closed. Sorry. ...snip... > I apologize to you Shawn for the ensuing chaos and the fact that you were > left without a response for so long. I appreciate the efforts of the parties involved to clarify matters. I did not take offense at the original decision despite the minor "chaos" and uncertainty involved that was a bit frustrating, but that I felt was understandable given our community's early status. > PS: Also from todays meeting, Simon will publish some details of the OGBs > thinking behind the Core Contrib grants and the nature of this "boot > straping" process which is a one-time event designed to establish an > initial voting population in order to enable a vote on the ratification of > the Constitution and the OGB election. That is great news to hear, and I appreciate Simon's efforts given the amount of time I know is likely involved in writing about even relatively "small" topics such as these. > Congratulations Shawn. Thanks. -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Mar 7 20:44:15 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:44:15 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Candidate mailing list? In-Reply-To: <20070307234319.GN12299@eng.sun.com> References: <20070307234319.GN12299@eng.sun.com> Message-ID: <45EF949F.1040300@sun.com> Hey, Bryan Cantrill wrote: > CAB'ies, > > In the DTrace community, we are interested in OGB candidates' positions on > particular issues of interest to our community. Now that the field is > established, is there a mail alias for us to mail all candidates? If > not, could such a thing be established? This sounds like a good plan to me, and I'll answer any questions I can as soon as possible, but we're running out of time according to - http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ I'm more than happy answering questions during the voting period, but that might not be appropriate? Glynn From bmc at eng.sun.com Wed Mar 7 20:49:26 2007 From: bmc at eng.sun.com (Bryan Cantrill) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 20:49:26 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Candidate mailing list? In-Reply-To: <45EF949F.1040300@sun.com> References: <20070307234319.GN12299@eng.sun.com> <45EF949F.1040300@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070308044926.GA21911@eng.sun.com> > > CAB'ies, > > > > In the DTrace community, we are interested in OGB candidates' positions on > > particular issues of interest to our community. Now that the field is > > established, is there a mail alias for us to mail all candidates? If > > not, could such a thing be established? > > This sounds like a good plan to me, and I'll answer any questions I can as soon > as possible, but we're running out of time according to - > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ We have until Sunday night, which is (or should be) plenty of time, given that you'll have our questions by tomorrow... - Bryan -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryan Cantrill, Solaris Kernel Development. http://blogs.sun.com/bmc From sch at sun.com Wed Mar 7 21:48:30 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:48:30 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] IT bliss Message-ID: <20070308054829.GB21419@sun.com> Through some amusing operation, the external DNS MX record for my system was deleted, and all my mail to opensolaris.org was discarded. (Spam!) So, I'll forward the messages I had hoped to send earlier. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sch at eng.sun.com Wed Mar 7 13:19:08 2007 From: sch at eng.sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:19:08 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Draft minutes, 2007/03/07 Message-ID: <20070307211908.GA20032@eng.sun.com> Comments, corrections welcomed. - Stephen ---- OpenSolaris GOVERNING BOARD MEETING MINUTES, 2007/03/07 Attending: DIK, FIELDING, HOPPER, PHIPPS, TEER. Absent: (None) Guests: Stephen Hahn 1. Hahn gave an update on Starter Kit offer and other status. 2. Discussion of specific core contributions. Core contributor petitions, after a rejection by one or more community groups or in the absence of a representative Community Group, may be presented to cab-discuss. 3. A brief discussion of the contributions made by the various OpenSolaris distributions was held. 4. PHIPPS intends to write an essay, published via his blog, identifying the current governance development as a bootstrap, and distinguishing the critical issues to be dealt with in this phase, versus those issues that may be deferred. MOTION 1: The Board resolved to remain with current election and contribution methodology, as defined in the draft Constitution. Moved by PHIPPS, seconded by TEER. Unanimous. MOTION 2: Shawn Walker recognized as Core Contributor at-Large. Moved by HOPPER, seconded by TEER. Carried, 3 - 0. 5. Details of the test poll, being an opportunity to also gather potential Community priorities. The poll will utilize the same electorate as the Board election, and is thus restricted to Core Contributors, from all Community Groups. The poll will have one question, with 12 items, of which 5 will be selected. One more round of text corrections will be made this afternoon. The poll will be announced, and will run from Thursday 000000 8 March to Sunday 235959 11 March. Board and community members are encouraged to blog or otherwise publicize the poll. 6. The contributor grants to the User Group Community Group were briefly visited. It was pointed out that the bulk of the User Group Core Contributors were user group leads or co-leads. 7. A brief discussion of the deficits of the current set of Community Groups and its match to actual Community activity was held. MOTION 3: Although the Current OGB resolves to utilize the current Community structure and process to bootstrap Community governance, it recommends to its successor to reorganize Community Groups to represent real Community participation, as the current Community Groups are not fully self-governing. PHIPPS, HOPPER. Unanimous. 8. The discussion returned to distributions, with consideration of proactive recognition of distribution leaders as Core Contributors. MOTION 4: To recognize those community members who have led the creation of OpenSolaris Distributions as Core Contributors at Large. Such grants will be recorded as they are determined by the Board. FIELDING, HOPPER. Unanimous. 9. A display on the opensolaris.org home page will be created to carry election information. -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sch at sun.com Wed Mar 7 21:52:04 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:52:04 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Alias for Board candidates Message-ID: <20070308055204.GE21419@sun.com> Candidates, Your registered email address on opensolaris.org has been added to the board-candidates-2007 at opensolaris.org alias. Its purpose is to allow Core Contributors and other interested parties to ask you questions regarding your positions on various OpenSolaris topics. (This alias will be decommissioned after the Board election ends.) - Stephen [] Alias membership is # grep board /etc/aliases board-candidates-2007: James.D.Carlson at Sun.COM, dclarke at blastwave.org, Alan.Coopersmith at Sun.COM, garrett at damore.org, Casper.Dik at Sun.COM, alan.duboff at sun.com, glynn.foster at sun.com, mgerdts at gmail.com, jim.grisanzio at sun.com, stevel at sun.com, flash at systemnews.com, James.C.McPherson at gmail.com, michelle.olson at sun.com, karyn.ritter at gmail.com, benr at cuddletech.com, schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de, rich.teer at rite-group.com, binarycrusader at gmail.com, keith.wesolowski at sun.com -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sch at sun.com Thu Mar 8 00:39:45 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 00:39:45 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Community Priorities/Polling Test open Message-ID: <20070308083945.GA21756@sun.com> The Board has asked that the polling system being used to conduct the upcoming Board election first be tested in a meaningful way, by asking the Community's Core Contributors to prioritize potential Board initiatives for the coming year. This test poll opened at 00:00 PST March 8 and closes at 23:59 PDT March 11. See http://poll.opensolaris.org for status and links to instructions. Concerns regarding the poll content should be shared on cab-discuss; problems with the poll mechanism on website-discuss. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From binarycrusader at gmail.com Thu Mar 8 03:29:14 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 22:29:14 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Community Priorities/Polling Test open In-Reply-To: <20070308083945.GA21756@sun.com> References: <20070308083945.GA21756@sun.com> Message-ID: On 08/03/07, Stephen Hahn wrote: > Concerns regarding the poll content should be shared on cab-discuss; Minor typo in the poll instructions you receive when connecting via ssh to poll.opensolaris.org: ...the winners of the vote usingg Also, to me, Remove_Inactive is a subset of Reorganize_Community. -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From sch at sun.com Thu Mar 8 11:34:28 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 11:34:28 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] opensolaris.org home page update Message-ID: <20070308193428.GE22095@sun.com> I've temporarily taken over the top portion of the main column of http://opensolaris.org/ to notify the community of the fact we're in an election phase. Comments on layout (ick, tables), content, or any of the pages linked to would be appreciated, particularly if diffs are attached; credit for the wonderful ballot box images goes to Chandan. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From dp at eng.sun.com Thu Mar 8 11:35:52 2007 From: dp at eng.sun.com (Dan Price) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 11:35:52 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [website-discuss] opensolaris.org home page update In-Reply-To: <20070308193428.GE22095@sun.com> References: <20070308193428.GE22095@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070308193551.GD19282@eng.sun.com> On Thu 08 Mar 2007 at 11:34AM, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > I've temporarily taken over the top portion of the main column of > http://opensolaris.org/ to notify the community of the fact we're in > an election phase. Comments on layout (ick, tables), content, or any > of the pages linked to would be appreciated, particularly if diffs > are attached; credit for the wonderful ballot box images goes to > Chandan. Lose the orange border. Otherwise, looks great. -dp -- Daniel Price - Solaris Kernel Engineering - dp at eng.sun.com - blogs.sun.com/dp From garrett at damore.org Thu Mar 8 11:48:19 2007 From: garrett at damore.org (Garrett D'Amore) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:48:19 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [website-discuss] opensolaris.org home page update In-Reply-To: <20070308193551.GD19282@eng.sun.com> References: <20070308193428.GE22095@sun.com> <20070308193551.GD19282@eng.sun.com> Message-ID: <45F06883.2070507@damore.org> Dan Price wrote: > On Thu 08 Mar 2007 at 11:34AM, Stephen Hahn wrote: > >> I've temporarily taken over the top portion of the main column of >> http://opensolaris.org/ to notify the community of the fact we're in >> an election phase. Comments on layout (ick, tables), content, or any >> of the pages linked to would be appreciated, particularly if diffs >> are attached; credit for the wonderful ballot box images goes to >> Chandan. >> > > Lose the orange border. Otherwise, looks great. > Heh. I like the orange border. It calls attention to the fact that we're doing elections, even more so. Btw, I wonder who does the artwork for the icons (and in this case the ballot box drawing). I've been impressed, someone is fairly talented. :-) -- Garrett From binarycrusader at gmail.com Thu Mar 8 12:25:29 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 07:25:29 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [website-discuss] opensolaris.org home page update In-Reply-To: <45F06883.2070507@damore.org> References: <20070308193428.GE22095@sun.com> <20070308193551.GD19282@eng.sun.com> <45F06883.2070507@damore.org> Message-ID: On 09/03/07, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Dan Price wrote: > > On Thu 08 Mar 2007 at 11:34AM, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > > >> I've temporarily taken over the top portion of the main column of > >> http://opensolaris.org/ to notify the community of the fact we're in > >> an election phase. Comments on layout (ick, tables), content, or any > >> of the pages linked to would be appreciated, particularly if diffs > >> are attached; credit for the wonderful ballot box images goes to > >> Chandan. > >> > > > > Lose the orange border. Otherwise, looks great. > > > > Heh. I like the orange border. It calls attention to the fact that > we're doing elections, even more so. Btw, I wonder who does the artwork > for the icons (and in this case the ballot box drawing). I've been > impressed, someone is fairly talented. :-) > > -- Garrett I like the Orange border as well, I think we need the "attention grabber." I also think the artwork has been excellent. -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Thu Mar 8 13:09:40 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 13:09:40 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Position statements Message-ID: <20070308210940.GD14991@sun.com> I've placed several position statements at http://blogs.sun.com/wesolows/entry/ogb_election. Please add this URL to the election status page. This is not intended to reflect an exhaustive list of interesting issues, and I'll be posting additional entries as I answer questions such as those posed by the DTrace Community. -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From al at logical-approach.com Thu Mar 8 15:14:46 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 17:14:46 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Bryan Cantrills OGB Candidate questions Message-ID: FYI: The discussion is being held on dtrace-discuss Great questions .... Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Thu Mar 8 16:02:38 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 13:02:38 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Community Priorities/Polling Test open In-Reply-To: References: <20070308083945.GA21756@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F0A41E.7050505@sun.com> Hi, Shawn Walker wrote: > On 08/03/07, Stephen Hahn wrote: >> Concerns regarding the poll content should be shared on cab-discuss; Here's some feedback o On going to poll.opensolaris.org, there's no detail other than Name about what vote is taking place. I would expect a link somewhere detailing what the election is about, and the questions being asked, regardless of whether I am a core contributor or not. o Going to the help page, I am forced to look at the page source for the public ssh keys because they can truncated on my 1024x768 display. o I would have preferred to see the vote example a little more detailed, with multiple rather than single selections, since I assume this will be common at least for the annual elections (and more confusing than a simple yes/no) o The current test poll questions are rather confusing, in that prioritizing one item eg. Create an infrastructure project for opensolaris.org would automatically prioritize projects based under that umbrella. Just goes to show that we need to be a lot more careful about the contents of such polls in future. Glynn From sch at sun.com Thu Mar 8 16:09:35 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 16:09:35 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Community Priorities/Polling Test open In-Reply-To: <45F0A41E.7050505@sun.com> References: <20070308083945.GA21756@sun.com> <45F0A41E.7050505@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070309000935.GA22558@sun.com> * Glynn Foster [2007-03-08 16:02]: > o Going to the help page, I am forced to look at the page source for > the public ssh keys because they can truncated on my 1024x768 > display. Unlucky timing; I had just added them and just moved them to a linked-in file. > o I would have preferred to see the vote example a little more detailed, with > multiple rather than single selections, since I assume this will be common > at least for the annual elections (and more confusing than a simple yes/no) I'll add this to my list of fixes. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Thu Mar 8 16:27:23 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 13:27:23 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Community Priorities/Polling Test open In-Reply-To: <20070309000935.GA22558@sun.com> References: <20070308083945.GA21756@sun.com> <45F0A41E.7050505@sun.com> <20070309000935.GA22558@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F0A9EB.7080704@sun.com> Hi, Stephen Hahn wrote: > * Glynn Foster [2007-03-08 16:02]: >> o Going to the help page, I am forced to look at the page source for >> the public ssh keys because they can truncated on my 1024x768 >> display. > > Unlucky timing; I had just added them and just moved them to a > linked-in file. Awesome, thanks! > I'll add this to my list of fixes. Another suggestion would be providing some sort of anonymous token for which to check your vote after the results are announced. Glynnn From mike.kupfer at sun.com Thu Mar 8 16:44:51 2007 From: mike.kupfer at sun.com (Mike Kupfer) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:44:51 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Community Priorities/Polling Test open In-Reply-To: Message from Glynn Foster of "Fri, 09 Mar 2007 13:02:38 +1300." <45F0A41E.7050505@sun.com> Message-ID: <20530.1173401091@athyra> >>>>> "Glynn" == Glynn Foster writes: Glynn> o The current test poll questions are rather confusing, in that Glynn> prioritizing one item eg. Create an infrastructure project for Glynn> opensolaris.org would automatically prioritize projects based Glynn> under that umbrella. I actually think they're fairly separable. Creating the infrastructure project just opens up the work to non-Sun people. That's different from what specific problems need to be attacked in what order. mike From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Thu Mar 8 17:03:50 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:03:50 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Alias for Board candidates In-Reply-To: <20070308055204.GE21419@sun.com> References: <20070308055204.GE21419@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F0B276.80309@sun.com> Are there going to be public archives of this list so that people don't have to go checking cab-discuss, dtrace-discuss and any other community lists where people may be asking questions of the candidates? -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering Stephen Hahn wrote: > Candidates, > > Your registered email address on opensolaris.org has been added to > the > > board-candidates-2007 at opensolaris.org > > alias. Its purpose is to allow Core Contributors and other > interested parties to ask you questions regarding your positions on > various OpenSolaris topics. > > (This alias will be decommissioned after the Board election ends.) > > - Stephen From garrett at damore.org Thu Mar 8 21:22:37 2007 From: garrett at damore.org (Garrett D'Amore) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 21:22:37 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] OGB position.... Message-ID: <45F0EF1D.1030103@damore.org> I liked Keith's position statement presentation quite a bit. So much so I did much the same thing while I set up a new blog. My position, and a bio for me are at http://gdamore.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html Thanks. -- Garrett From mgerdts at gmail.com Fri Mar 9 05:02:52 2007 From: mgerdts at gmail.com (Mike Gerdts) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 07:02:52 -0600 Subject: [cab-discuss] Upon further review... Message-ID: <65f8f3ad0703090502s25449468p9ef7864b92d39a01@mail.gmail.com> After giving more thought about the amount of time that I would have for an OGB position, I would like to decline my nomination. Mike -- Mike Gerdts http://mgerdts.blogspot.com/ From al at logical-approach.com Fri Mar 9 06:43:10 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 08:43:10 -0600 (CST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Candidate mailing list? In-Reply-To: <45EF949F.1040300@sun.com> References: <20070307234319.GN12299@eng.sun.com> <45EF949F.1040300@sun.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2007, Glynn Foster wrote: > Hey, > > Bryan Cantrill wrote: > > CAB'ies, > > > > In the DTrace community, we are interested in OGB candidates' positions on > > particular issues of interest to our community. Now that the field is > > established, is there a mail alias for us to mail all candidates? If > > not, could such a thing be established? > > This sounds like a good plan to me, and I'll answer any questions I can as soon > as possible, but we're running out of time according to - > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ > > I'm more than happy answering questions during the voting period, but that might > not be appropriate? Of course it's appropriate. Candidates are free to "mess up" (just kidding), and voters are free to change their mind, right up until the ballot closes! Here's what I wrote previously about campaigning: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/message.jspa?messageID=97111#97060 http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/message.jspa?messageID=97111#97130 Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From dclarke at blastwave.org Fri Mar 9 07:57:41 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:57:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [cab-discuss] Upon further review... In-Reply-To: <65f8f3ad0703090502s25449468p9ef7864b92d39a01@mail.gmail.com> References: <65f8f3ad0703090502s25449468p9ef7864b92d39a01@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <52518.72.39.216.186.1173455861.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > After giving more thought about the amount of time that I would have > for an OGB position, I would like to decline my nomination. Does it look like it is supposed to be a full time paid position? It certainly feels as if people expect that to be the case with the sort of questions that are being asked. If you can just hold on there for a little while I think that we will get around to voting and maybe other discussions. We do need people from the outside non-Sun employee community involved and certainly people with a passion for OpenSolaris. Dennis From srivatsa17486 at gmail.com Fri Mar 9 12:35:01 2007 From: srivatsa17486 at gmail.com (Srivatsa) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 12:35:01 PST Subject: [cab-discuss] Zones config Message-ID: <22858751.1173472531952.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Hi , I created and was able to configure zones in my system (small-zone). But after installation the following error occurs bash-3.00# zoneadm -z small-zone boot zoneadm: zone 'small-zone': "/usr/lib/fs/dev/mount -o attrdir=/export/small-zone/dev /dev /export/small-zone/root/dev" failed with exit code 32 zoneadm: zone 'small-zone': call to zoneadmd failed how to correct this problem . Thanks and regards Srivatsa This message posted from opensolaris.org From mgerdts at gmail.com Fri Mar 9 17:33:40 2007 From: mgerdts at gmail.com (Mike Gerdts) Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 19:33:40 -0600 Subject: [cab-discuss] Upon further review... In-Reply-To: <52518.72.39.216.186.1173455861.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> References: <65f8f3ad0703090502s25449468p9ef7864b92d39a01@mail.gmail.com> <52518.72.39.216.186.1173455861.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: <65f8f3ad0703091733n6281caddi50f52209d17a6c7d@mail.gmail.com> On 3/9/07, Dennis Clarke wrote: > > > After giving more thought about the amount of time that I would have > > for an OGB position, I would like to decline my nomination. > > Does it look like it is supposed to be a full time paid position? > > It certainly feels as if people expect that to be the case with the > sort of questions that are being asked. The questions from the dtrace discuss team are quite involved. That did not scare me away, however. Over the past couple months I have been busy enough with the job that pays the bills that I haven't really even had time to keep up with the technical lists that I am quite interested in. It really hadn't even crossed my radar that the OBG elections were eminent until I saw that my nomination had received a second. I was quite honored to be considered to for the seat and jumped the gun on accepting. For a person whose real passions are the issues that the community (and the various sects thereof) seems to be most interested in, I'm not sure that it is a full time job. A serious hobby, but not full time. When I look at where my interests are right now and look at how I would like to influence in OpenSolaris, I think I can do it better as part of technical discussions and code contributions. Next year or some year thereafter this may change. Who knows? > If you can just hold on there for a little while I think that we will > get around to voting and maybe other discussions. We do need people > from the outside non-Sun employee community involved and certainly > people with a passion for OpenSolaris. I certainly intend to be involved in the OpenSolaris community. I have limited time (which is almost entirely personal time) to do so and would prefer to do that on my own schedule on those things that are of the most interest to me. Mike -- Mike Gerdts http://mgerdts.blogspot.com/ From webmink at gmail.com Fri Mar 9 20:17:08 2007 From: webmink at gmail.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 04:17:08 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] (no subject) Message-ID: <21C33165-6403-4F62-AD3E-3EE4E8B5010B@gmail.com> To all OGB Candidates: I'd like to record an interview with each of you and podcast it from my blog during the next week. We would talk via Skype and I would record the conversation and podcast it unedited (well, with a jingle at the front and end and an intro, and maybe with phone clicks and beeps smoothed out, but without changing the content). Interested? Let me know. S. _____ Simon Phipps, Chief Open Source Officer, Sun Microsystems Tel: +1 650 352 6327/USx69758 Web: www.webmink.net, AIM: webmink Current timezone: UTC (UK) [apologies if you get two of these but I am having mail server problems] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2440 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sch at sun.com Sun Mar 11 12:02:47 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:02:47 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration Message-ID: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core Contributors of whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should extend any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly impossible)? - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From dclarke at blastwave.org Sun Mar 11 12:32:33 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> Message-ID: <55934.72.39.216.186.1173641553.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > > With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the > ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core Contributors of > whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the > poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should extend > any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly > impossible)? go for the extension ... thats my input - Dennis Clarke From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Sun Mar 11 12:59:53 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:59:53 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <55934.72.39.216.186.1173641553.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <55934.72.39.216.186.1173641553.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: <45F45FB9.4010003@sun.com> Hey, Dennis Clarke wrote: >> With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the >> ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core Contributors of >> whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the >> poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should extend >> any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly >> impossible)? > > go for the extension ... thats my input I don't think an extension will help. Perhaps more communication/nagging would be better. Interestingly, I wonder if the infrastructure is becoming a barrier for voting? Rather than point and click on a website to select candidates, they potentially need to generate ssh keys, upload them to the website, ssh into the poll and vote. As a random aside, here's the turnouts we've had in GNOME over the last few years - 2000 330/372 2001 251/420 2002 211/274 2003 191/337 2005 169/354 2006 211/Unknown Some interesting points - o Between 2001 and 2002, our initial 2 year memberships started to expire which would count why the membership nearly halved in size. This also coincided with a new membership policy. o In 2005 we moved to a new voting system that was no longer mail based but web based. o There is no total for voters for 2006. There are 364 members currently, so you can estimate it at about 340+ given that most of our membership growth happens a little before the election period is due to begin. As Keith pointed out on IRC earlier, we have a long way to go if we want to ratify the constitution. Glynn From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Mar 11 15:15:37 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:15:37 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> Stephen Hahn wrote: > With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the > ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core Contributors of > whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the > poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should extend > any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly > impossible)? Was mail sent to a list of all the core contributors who don't happen to follow cab-discuss or one of the other lists? I don't remember seeing any, but that could just be my memory... -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From sch at sun.com Sun Mar 11 15:26:17 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:26:17 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> * Alan Coopersmith [2007-03-11 15:16]: > Stephen Hahn wrote: > > With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the > > ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core Contributors of > > whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the > > poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should extend > > any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly > > impossible)? > > Was mail sent to a list of all the core contributors who don't happen to > follow cab-discuss or one of the other lists? I don't remember seeing > any, but that could just be my memory... Nope (-announce, -code, -discuss). I'm almost done sending out a message now, however. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sch at sun.com Sun Mar 11 15:35:51 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:35:51 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <45F45FB9.4010003@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <55934.72.39.216.186.1173641553.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F45FB9.4010003@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070311223551.GC3890@sun.com> * Glynn Foster [2007-03-11 13:00]: > Hey, > > Dennis Clarke wrote: > >> With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the > >> ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core Contributors of > >> whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the > >> poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should extend > >> any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly > >> impossible)? > > > > go for the extension ... thats my input > > I don't think an extension will help. Perhaps more > communication/nagging would be better. Interestingly, I wonder if the > infrastructure is becoming a barrier for voting? Rather than point and > click on a website to select candidates, they potentially need to > generate ssh keys, upload them to the website, ssh into the poll and > vote. Probably true, but I doubt it's the first barrier--we can't get people on-list, and many of those people are Core Contributors under the current selection. (If participation remains dire, it might be interesting to run an "I accept Core Contributor" status vote--no vote takes one to lost status. That would get us back to the participating members.) > As a random aside, here's the turnouts we've had in GNOME over the > last few years - > > 2000 330/372 > 2001 251/420 > 2002 211/274 > 2003 191/337 > 2005 169/354 > 2006 211/Unknown > > Some interesting points - > > o Between 2001 and 2002, our initial 2 year memberships started to > expire which would count why the membership nearly halved in size. > This also coincided with a new membership policy. > o In 2005 we moved to a new voting system that was no longer mail > based but web based. > o There is no total for voters for 2006. There are 364 members > currently, so you can estimate it at about 340+ given that most of > our membership growth happens a little before the election period > is due to begin. (Not random: I'm very grateful you sent these, actually.) These turnouts (from a well-known, working community) worry me--an affirmative majority is a strong requirement with a fully participating electorate. It's prohibitive with turnouts of 55 - 60% (and impossible for 48%!). (I'm ignoring the two good years, at 77% and 89%.) > As Keith pointed out on IRC earlier, we have a long way to go if we > want to ratify the constitution. Under current conditions, yes. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sch at sun.com Sun Mar 11 15:36:41 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:36:41 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070311223640.GD3890@sun.com> * Simon Phipps [2007-03-11 15:28]: > > On Mar 11, 2007, at 22:15, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > > >Stephen Hahn wrote: > >> With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the > >> ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core Contributors of > >> whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the > >> poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should > >>extend > >> any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly > >> impossible)? > > > >Was mail sent to a list of all the core contributors who don't > >happen to > >follow cab-discuss or one of the other lists? I don't remember > >seeing > >any, but that could just be my memory... > > As I recall, the OGB asked for a 'contributors' list (to include > contributors and core-contributors) - has this been created yet? If > it has, sending reminders to it would seem smart. I have not made this list yet. Mostly due to overload. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sch at sun.com Sun Mar 11 16:27:58 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:27:58 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> * Stephen Hahn [2007-03-11 15:26]: > * Alan Coopersmith [2007-03-11 15:16]: > > Stephen Hahn wrote: > > > With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the > > > ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core Contributors of > > > whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the > > > poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should extend > > > any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly > > > impossible)? > > > > Was mail sent to a list of all the core contributors who don't happen to > > follow cab-discuss or one of the other lists? I don't remember seeing > > any, but that could just be my memory... > > Nope (-announce, -code, -discuss). I'm almost done sending out a > message now, however. I've now sent a reminder message to all Core Contributors who have not voted in the current poll. It also tells them if they need to register an SSH key as well. It still seems prudent to extend the priorities poll one more day, so we have a business day. (I have about a dozen bounces off two hundred plus messages, most of which are vacation mail.) Objections? - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From James.McPherson at Sun.COM Sun Mar 11 16:34:34 2007 From: James.McPherson at Sun.COM (James C. McPherson) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:34:34 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F4920A.4020701@Sun.COM> Stephen Hahn wrote: .... > I've now sent a reminder message to all Core Contributors who have > not voted in the current poll. It also tells them if they need to > register an SSH key as well. > > It still seems prudent to extend the priorities poll one more day, > so we have a business day. (I have about a dozen bounces off two > hundred plus messages, most of which are vacation mail.) > Objections? No objections from me to extending the poll deadline by 24 hours. James C. McPherson -- Solaris kernel software engineer Sun Microsystems From dclarke at blastwave.org Sun Mar 11 16:35:31 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 19:35:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> Message-ID: <60645.72.39.216.186.1173656131.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > * Stephen Hahn [2007-03-11 15:26]: >> * Alan Coopersmith [2007-03-11 15:16]: >> > Stephen Hahn wrote: >> > > With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the >> > > ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core Contributors of >> > > whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the >> > > poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should extend >> > > any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly >> > > impossible)? >> > >> > Was mail sent to a list of all the core contributors who don't happen to >> > follow cab-discuss or one of the other lists? I don't remember seeing >> > any, but that could just be my memory... >> >> Nope (-announce, -code, -discuss). I'm almost done sending out a >> message now, however. > > I've now sent a reminder message to all Core Contributors who have > not voted in the current poll. It also tells them if they need to > register an SSH key as well. I received mine. Thank you. > It still seems prudent to extend the priorities poll one more day, > so we have a business day. (I have about a dozen bounces off two > hundred plus messages, most of which are vacation mail.) > Objections? I don't know that schedule for schools and vacations down there in the USA but up here in Canada we are now in March break for high school and elementary students. It is quite possible that people are away on vacation or travelling with kids. An extra day or two would not hurt at all. Dennis From sch at sun.com Sun Mar 11 16:47:47 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:47:47 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> * Simon Phipps [2007-03-11 16:44]: > > On Mar 11, 2007, at 23:27, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > >* Stephen Hahn [2007-03-11 15:26]: > >>* Alan Coopersmith [2007-03-11 15:16]: > >>>Stephen Hahn wrote: > >>>> With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the > >>>> ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core > >>>>Contributors of > >>>> whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the > >>>> poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should > >>>>extend > >>>> any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly > >>>> impossible)? > >>> > >>>Was mail sent to a list of all the core contributors who don't > >>>happen to > >>>follow cab-discuss or one of the other lists? I don't remember > >>>seeing > >>>any, but that could just be my memory... > >> > >> Nope (-announce, -code, -discuss). I'm almost done sending out a > >> message now, however. > > > > I've now sent a reminder message to all Core Contributors who have > > not voted in the current poll. It also tells them if they need to > > register an SSH key as well. > > > > It still seems prudent to extend the priorities poll one more day, > > so we have a business day. (I have about a dozen bounces off two > > hundred plus messages, most of which are vacation mail.) > > Objections? > > As the poll in question is a sandbox, I'd have no objection to > keeping it open for severalmore days to allow people to get the hang > of things. Okay. So, the obvious next question: slip election poll, or open with original dates? - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Sun Mar 11 18:09:13 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:09:13 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070312010913.GA370816@sun.com> On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 04:47:47PM -0700, Stephen Hahn wrote: > Okay. So, the obvious next question: slip election poll, or open > with original dates? With 2 full weeks to vote, I'd prefer we get on with it. There's plenty of time left to reach everyone who wants to be reached. -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Sun Mar 11 18:10:18 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:10:18 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070312011018.GB370816@sun.com> On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 03:26:17PM -0700, Stephen Hahn wrote: > Nope (-announce, -code, -discuss). I'm almost done sending out a > message now, however. My understanding was that all registered users are on -announce unless they explicitly remove themselves. Is this still the case? -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From al at logical-approach.com Sun Mar 11 18:18:11 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:18:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Stephen Hahn wrote: > * Simon Phipps [2007-03-11 16:44]: > > > > On Mar 11, 2007, at 23:27, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > > > >* Stephen Hahn [2007-03-11 15:26]: > > >>* Alan Coopersmith [2007-03-11 15:16]: > > >>>Stephen Hahn wrote: > > >>>> With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the > > >>>> ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core > > >>>>Contributors of > > >>>> whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the > > >>>> poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should > > >>>>extend > > >>>> any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly > > >>>> impossible)? > > >>> > > >>>Was mail sent to a list of all the core contributors who don't > > >>>happen to > > >>>follow cab-discuss or one of the other lists? I don't remember > > >>>seeing > > >>>any, but that could just be my memory... > > >> > > >> Nope (-announce, -code, -discuss). I'm almost done sending out a > > >> message now, however. > > > > > > I've now sent a reminder message to all Core Contributors who have > > > not voted in the current poll. It also tells them if they need to > > > register an SSH key as well. > > > > > > It still seems prudent to extend the priorities poll one more day, > > > so we have a business day. (I have about a dozen bounces off two > > > hundred plus messages, most of which are vacation mail.) > > > Objections? > > > > As the poll in question is a sandbox, I'd have no objection to > > keeping it open for severalmore days to allow people to get the hang > > of things. > > Okay. So, the obvious next question: slip election poll, or open > with original dates? Stephen: How confusing will the poll.opensolaris.org page look if the test poll overlaps the OGB election? If the answer is "confusing" then we can't have an overlap and the test poll should end on schedule. If its not confusing, then extend the test poll by 24 to 48 hours to give voters a chance to use the test poll to register their SSH key and gain familiarity with the polling software. In either case, I'd like to stick to the original OGB election calendar and concentrate our efforts on getting a high voter turnout percentage. The big picture is that, if the Constitution is not ratified, then, at the end of March, Sun will, at its sole discretion, extend the existing OGB, or, convene a replacement as it sees fit. There is also a potential issue in that existing OGB members may not accept another term, if granted by extension. Questions to the OGB Candidates: a) what would you do in this situation? b) how agressive should the OGB be, in respect to ensuring that the current core contributors participate/vote in the OGB election? b1) for example, would it be fair to post a list of the core contributors who have yet to vote? b2) should a core contributor loose his/her core contrib status if he/she is not prepared to make the effort to vote? c) what is the best way to approach each core contributor to persuade them to vote? d) how important is it to the OpenSolaris project to get a newly elected OGB installed and operational? e) how comfortable are you leaving these decisions to Sun if we don't get a reasonably high percentage of the core contributors to vote? Please post your answers to cab-discuss. Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From sch at sun.com Sun Mar 11 18:20:46 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:20:46 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070312011018.GB370816@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070312011018.GB370816@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070312012046.GB4214@sun.com> * Keith M Wesolowski [2007-03-11 18:10]: > On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 03:26:17PM -0700, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > > Nope (-announce, -code, -discuss). I'm almost done sending out a > > message now, however. > > My understanding was that all registered users are on -announce unless > they explicitly remove themselves. Is this still the case? Dan and I were talking about that the other day, and came away uncertain. Let me go check... No, definitely not. (And probably not true during my involvement: there are 538 members.) - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sch at sun.com Sun Mar 11 18:24:57 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:24:57 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070312012456.GC4214@sun.com> * Al Hopper [2007-03-11 18:18]: > Stephen: How confusing will the poll.opensolaris.org page look if the test > poll overlaps the OGB election? Not very. There will be a list of polls on the web page (two entries) and a menu of entries in the voting client (two entries) for voters who haven't voted in either poll. If you've already voted or the poll has closed, you won't get the menu, but be dropped directly into the ballot collection process for whatever vote remains. > If the answer is "confusing" then we can't have an overlap and the test > poll should end on schedule. If its not confusing, then extend the test > poll by 24 to 48 hours to give voters a chance to use the test poll to > register their SSH key and gain familiarity with the polling software. > In either case, I'd like to stick to the original OGB election calendar > and concentrate our efforts on getting a high voter turnout percentage. Okay. I'll extend the test poll close by 48 hours, and open the election/ratification for midnight tonight. (Oh, and I can turn around results in only a few minutes...) - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Sun Mar 11 18:33:54 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:33:54 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F4AE02.5080600@sun.com> Hi, Al Hopper wrote: > Questions to the OGB Candidates: > > a) what would you do in this situation? I would continue with the deadlines set for the OGB elections. Yes we're on a low turnout, but maybe that's not too surprising given how we all went about selecting the core contributors in some cases. > b) how agressive should the OGB be, in respect to ensuring that the > current core contributors participate/vote in the OGB election? I think you can certainly make sure that people are made aware of an important upcoming OGB election, but at the end of the day, you can't baby sit them. If people don't have the interest to get involved, there's nothing you can do. > b1) for example, would it be fair to post a list of the core contributors > who have yet to vote? I don't believe we should do that. Given the voting system is anonymous, I don't think we have that opportunity. > b2) should a core contributor loose his/her core contrib status if he/she > is not prepared to make the effort to vote? We've talked about this at length in the GNOME Foundation, and analyzed the poor turnouts in the elections. At the end of the day, reducing the membership isn't going to solve it - if anything, it'll make the 'clique' more noticeable. > c) what is the best way to approach each core contributor to persuade them > to vote? Encourage the importance of getting involved and why they should spend time voting. I think it's important to make sure that the voting system sends out mail when the election opens for all those who can participate, with a reminder a day or two before the polls close. It might also be good for existing core contributors who have already voted to encourage those who haven't in their respective communities. > d) how important is it to the OpenSolaris project to get a newly elected > OGB installed and operational? I believe very important. Having new people on board with energy is always going to help give a fresh new approach. > e) how comfortable are you leaving these decisions to Sun if we don't > get a reasonably high percentage of the core contributors to vote? Not very comfortable, but if at the end of the day it happens, there's absolutely nothing we can do. We tried hard to sort our shit out and encourage people to participate. We only have ourselves to blame for that not happening. Sun has passed over the responsibility for managing the project, we need to stand up to the plate and take that on as a community. Glynn From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Sun Mar 11 19:07:28 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 19:07:28 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070312020728.GC370816@sun.com> On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 08:18:11PM -0500, Al Hopper wrote: I should note that the existing members are entitled to remain on the OGB until 30 June (or ratification, whichever occurs first) under the terms of the Charter. Whether you're willing to continue your already lengthy and difficult service, of course, is another matter. > Questions to the OGB Candidates: > > a) what would you do in this situation? Proceed with the election on schedule. > b) how agressive should the OGB be, in respect to ensuring that the > current core contributors participate/vote in the OGB election? Given the emphasis the constitution places on on-list collaboration as the primary venue for both ordinary activity and government, I'd suggest that the combination of core contributors we have and the constitution being proposed do not form a viable governance structure if we are unable to reach a sufficient number by mail. > b1) for example, would it be fair to post a list of the core contributors > who have yet to vote? It would be fair, but I question its value. A core contributor who has failed to act on or read mail and is otherwise unaware of the election is unlikely to read a name-and-shame page, either. > b2) should a core contributor loose his/her core contrib status if he/she > is not prepared to make the effort to vote? In general, no. A small number of nations do in fact treat voting as a civic duty, but most do not. More importantly, our proposed constitution does not. And a conscious choice not to vote, or to vote a spoiled ballot, is a widely understood message of protest. Reducing the threshold for approving the constitution makes me especially nervous given the nature and structure of the document. I understand that section 7.8 can be used to justify the proposal that all voters not accepting their status (in the form of a ballot question) are not core contributors. I admire the thinking behind this proposal and will not oppose it if the OGB approves, but I cannot support it. > c) what is the best way to approach each core contributor to persuade them > to vote? Again, given 7.10: # All Community Group meetings shall take place using asynchronous # collaboration mechanisms, such as electronic mailing lists, that # are open to the public for read access, archived for later # review, and able to accept communication from all participants # such that it is reasonably believed to be delivered to all # participants in a timely manner. In addition, each Community # Group shall be assigned an archived private mailing list for # limited use by the Community Group's Core Contributors for # discussion of matters related to pre-publication security # defects in products managed by the Community Group, nominations # to Core Contributor status, and other personnel issues for which # public discussion is inappropriate. Non-public discussion # related to the Community Group, such as in-person meetings or # private communication, shall not be considered part of the # Community Group activities unless or until a record of such # discussion is made available via the normal meeting mechanism. there is a clear assertion being made that mail and its equivalents are the mechanisms we use to conduct our business. If this assertion does not hold, we are better off without this constitution, so I believe mail is the appropriate means of contact. Persuasive tactics should include a simple and clear description of the election, the issues, and what happens if ratification fails. Communities granting core contributor status to large numbers of individuals insufficiently involved to vote may be subject to a review of their viability, but such a review could not solve the problem since those core contributors would retain their rights. A compromise here might require that eligible voters wishing to accept their grants but not to vote may do so by replying to one of these messages. > d) how important is it to the OpenSolaris project to get a newly elected > OGB installed and operational? It's minimally important to the success of OpenSolaris as a technology. It's extremely important to the success of OpenSolaris as an open development program. > e) how comfortable are you leaving these decisions to Sun if we don't > get a reasonably high percentage of the core contributors to vote? I have not met or spoken with Mr. Harpster's replacement, so I cannot guess who would be appointed if the 3rd Initial OGB does not achieve its goals. Without that knowledge, I can't offer an opinion. However, if ratification fails, I'd certainly encourage (and help, where possible) the existing OGB to make whatever changes are needed to conclude this process fairly before 30 June. -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From Alan.Coopersmith at Sun.COM Sun Mar 11 21:12:29 2007 From: Alan.Coopersmith at Sun.COM (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 21:12:29 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F4D32D.5000104@sun.com> Al Hopper wrote: > a) what would you do in this situation? Continue with the election schedule as planned - last minute changes would seem more confusing than necessary. I'm not that worried about the test poll not having a large turnout since not all voters were notified, and those who were notified were told it was a non-binding test poll, not the real thing. > b1) for example, would it be fair to post a list of the core contributors > who have yet to vote? I'm not sure that's necessary - not voting yet could just mean they're waiting until any discussion during the election period is complete. > b2) should a core contributor loose his/her core contrib status if he/she > is not prepared to make the effort to vote? No, there are many valid reasons someone could not vote during a given period or chose not to vote. > c) what is the best way to approach each core contributor to persuade them > to vote? Stephen's plan to mail them seems sufficient. > e) how comfortable are you leaving these decisions to Sun if we don't > get a reasonably high percentage of the core contributors to vote? It would be unfortunate, but I don't think it would be a disaster, and that Sun would continue to make reasonable decisions here. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From sch at sun.com Sun Mar 11 21:54:09 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 21:54:09 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Proposed ballot Message-ID: <20070312045409.GA8846@sun.com> This is a transcript of the system using the draft ballot proposed in http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/cab-discuss/2007-February/001437.html with edits. I am debating adding a link to http://opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ in the preamble. Comments, corrections? - Stephen ---- POLL 2: Board Election 2007/Ratify Constitution To participate in this ballot, you must be a Core Contributor to one or more Community Groups in the OpenSolaris Community. The ballot consists of 2 questions: one to ratify the Constitution, and one to elect a Governing Board for 2007. QUESTION 4.1: ("Ratify_Constitution") Do you approve the document, http://opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/governance/ , for use as the Constitution of the OpenSolaris Community? 1 - Approve ('Yes') 2 - Disapprove ('No') This question is being resolved by a first-past-the-post count. Please enter your single selection. RESPONSE 4.1 --> ... QUESTION 4.2: ("Elect_Board") Question 1, if approved, requires the election of a Governing Board. The participants below have been nominated as candidates to serve on a seven (7) member Board. The Board members shall be selected by single transferable vote. Accordingly, please submit an ordered list of the candidates, showing your preference by placing the most preferred candidate at the head of the list, followed by candidates of lower and lower preference. You may present a list of the entire slate, or a subset thereof. (The list is presented in a pre-selected random order.) 1 - James D. Carlson ('carlsonj') 2 - Michelle Olson ('michelle') 3 - Casper Dik ('casper') 4 - Jim Grisanzio ('jimgris') 5 - Glynn Foster ('gman') 6 - Joerg Schilling ('joerg') 7 - Alan Coopersmith ('alanc') 8 - Shawn Walker ('swalker') 9 - Garrett D'Amore ('gdamore') 10 - Rich Teer ('rich') 11 - Ben Rockwood ('benr') 12 - Dennis Clarke ('dclarke') 13 - John J. McLaughlin ('sysnews') 14 - Alan DuBoff ('aland') 15 - Keith M. Wesolowski ('wesolows') 16 - Stephen Lau ('stevel') 17 - James C. McPherson ('jmcp') 18 - Karyn Ritter ('kritter') This question is being resolved by single transferable vote. Please enter a space separated list of your candidates, ordered by preference. You may omit candidates. RESPONSE 4.2 --> ... -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From karyn.ritter at gmail.com Sun Mar 11 21:47:58 2007 From: karyn.ritter at gmail.com (Karyn Ritter) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:47:58 -0800 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <45F4D32D.5000104@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> <45F4D32D.5000104@sun.com> Message-ID: <1a9ef5320703112147m3c223ac9x2fb2ba63bfffb118@mail.gmail.com> I'd respond to all the questions, but I agree with Glynn and Alan: * Continue with the vote as scheduled (and extend the poll deadline by 48 hours as you're already doing). * Don't reduce membership. * Encourage core contributors to vote. Thanks, Karyn On 3/11/07, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > > Al Hopper wrote: > > a) what would you do in this situation? > > Continue with the election schedule as planned - last minute changes > would seem more confusing than necessary. > > I'm not that worried about the test poll not having a large turnout > since not all voters were notified, and those who were notified were > told it was a non-binding test poll, not the real thing. > > > b1) for example, would it be fair to post a list of the core > contributors > > who have yet to vote? > > I'm not sure that's necessary - not voting yet could just mean they're > waiting until any discussion during the election period is complete. > > > b2) should a core contributor loose his/her core contrib status if > he/she > > is not prepared to make the effort to vote? > > No, there are many valid reasons someone could not vote during a given > period or chose not to vote. > > > c) what is the best way to approach each core contributor to persuade > them > > to vote? > > Stephen's plan to mail them seems sufficient. > > > e) how comfortable are you leaving these decisions to Sun if we don't > > get a reasonably high percentage of the core contributors to vote? > > It would be unfortunate, but I don't think it would be a disaster, and > that Sun would continue to make reasonable decisions here. > > -- > -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com > Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From al at logical-approach.com Sun Mar 11 22:02:08 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 00:02:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Podcasts for election page In-Reply-To: <36B0DD54-B041-4CB9-895D-CF4250783973@sun.com> References: <36B0DD54-B041-4CB9-895D-CF4250783973@sun.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Simon Phipps wrote: > Hi Al, > > Please can you make an extra column in the Election Status page and > add podcasts to it? I just published one from Glynn Foster at http:// > blogs.sun.com/webmink/entry/livemink_ogb_special_glynn_foster and am > in the process of editing one with James McPherson. Done. Al Hopper From dclarke at blastwave.org Sun Mar 11 22:22:33 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 01:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] howto join the poll and vote ... Message-ID: <52484.72.39.216.186.1173676953.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> I felt that there may be some people out there somewhat intimidated by the whole SSH keygen thing and thus I wrote up a step by step. This is a work in progress : http://www.blastwave.org/articles/BLS-0061/index.html I need to comment in there liberally to let people know what I am doing and why I am doing those various steps. All the keys and crypto data in that document has been severly mangled by me so none of it can be used for anything really. Other than "do this and it works" type of things. Dennis From karyn.ritter at gmail.com Sun Mar 11 22:29:12 2007 From: karyn.ritter at gmail.com (Karyn Ritter) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:29:12 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] "priority statement" Message-ID: <1a9ef5320703112229q5577c0b6i21fc4b43166b1032@mail.gmail.com> I won't call this a position paper because it isn't substantial enough to be called that. In any case, my priorities for the OGB for the coming year are: * Come up with (and drive to completion) a set of aggressive, achievable goals for this OGB. - If the Draft Constitution isn't ratified, that will be the primary goal for the year. * Create a viable and effective working structure for the OGB that can be used from this OGB forward. * Address any OGB-related issues (e.g., election ambiguities). * Generally get the OpenSolaris community in fine working order based on issues identified by the community. * Resolve disputes that are escalated to the OGB. I bring strong organizational skills, knowledge of Sun's organizational structure without being bound by it, and a genuine interest in seeing the OpenSolaris community succeed. My basic goal for the year is to drive and work through issues the community has identified. This will be the first post-Constitution OGB, and will likely require a lot of good groundwork to be laid. Please feel free to ask me questions directly or via these mailing lists. Thanks, Karyn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sch at sun.com Sun Mar 11 23:44:50 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:44:50 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Board Election 2007/Ratify Constitution poll opens, 12 Mar 00:00 PDT Message-ID: <20070312064450.GB8991@sun.com> The polling system will shortly open for the 2007 Board election, as well as the ratification of the draft Constitution. Core Contributors from all Community Groups are eligible to participate in the poll. The poll will open at 00:00 PDT 12 March and will close at 23:59 PDT 26 March. A sample ballot may be inspected at http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/cab-discuss/2007-March/001852.html The draft Constitution may be read at http://opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/governance/ Information about the candidates may be found at http://opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ See http://poll.opensolaris.org for poll status and links to instructions. Eligible voters will receive reminder mail at intervals during the polling period. Again, concerns or questions regarding the poll content should be shared on cab-discuss; problems with the poll mechanism on website-discuss. - Stephen [] The "Community Priorities/Polling Test" poll has had its closing time extended by 48 hours, to 23:59 PDT 13 March. -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sch at Sun.Com Sun Mar 11 23:49:13 2007 From: sch at Sun.Com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 23:49:13 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Proposed ballot In-Reply-To: <45F4F56C.6040109@Sun.Com> References: <20070312045409.GA8846@sun.com> <45F4F56C.6040109@Sun.Com> Message-ID: <20070312064912.GC8991@sun.com> * John Plocher [2007-03-11 23:40]: > What is "first past the post" and how does it differ from > a "wait for election to close and then determine majority"? It's the same, but the apparently standard term for the algorithm that awards the winner(s) to those receiving the most votes. Here's the client code for these automatically displayed messages: if (q.type == qtypes_by_name["STV_MEEK"]): print """ This question is being resolved by single transferable vote. Please enter a space separated list of your candidates, ordered by preference. You may omit candidates. """ else: print """ This question is being resolved by a first-past-the-post count. Please enter your single selection. """ How would you like the message to change? (There are presently only two types, but I'll restructure to be defensive when I change the text. Feel free to suggest better text for either; I'll make the change in the morning.) - Stephen From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Mon Mar 12 00:30:34 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 00:30:34 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Links to my bio & position statements Message-ID: <45F5019A.4010707@sun.com> Hopefully this doesn't count as campaigning past the deadline (can I claim to still be adjusting to that hour lost to DST this morning? 8-) I'm not sure who is in charge of updating the candidate materials links on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ but please add these to my row: Bio: http://blogs.sun.com/alanc/entry/ogb_elections_biography_of_a Positions: http://blogs.sun.com/alanc/entry/ogb_elections_proper_positioning -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Mon Mar 12 00:43:31 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:43:31 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Links to my bio & position statements In-Reply-To: <45F5019A.4010707@sun.com> References: <45F5019A.4010707@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F504A3.8010508@sun.com> Hey, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Hopefully this doesn't count as campaigning past the deadline > (can I claim to still be adjusting to that hour lost to DST this > morning? 8-) That's an interesting point I haven't thought about. Simon interviewed me today in his special OGB elections set of podcasts, and I believe he has every intention of doing some of the other candidates. Is this possible? I'd personally *love* to see them not only because it'll help me with my own personal vote, but also it's a really great opportunity to get to learn the faces running a little more and some good publicity for the project as a whole. I'd also certainly not like to disadvantage those who haven't yet had the opportunity to speak to Simon. FWIW, I'm also scheduled to do a Round table discussion as part of the 'Open source on air' Australian podcasts with James McPherson and Joshua Clulow later this evening, and obviously OpenSolaris (and possibly the OGB elections) will be the topic. Seems some thought on this is required. I personally don't have any issues with any of the candidates campaigning during the elections. Glynn From Casper.Dik at sun.com Mon Mar 12 02:44:25 2007 From: Casper.Dik at sun.com (Casper.Dik at sun.com) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:44:25 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070312010913.GA370816@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> <20070312010913.GA370816@sun.com> Message-ID: <200703120944.l2C9ifI9010652@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> >On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 04:47:47PM -0700, Stephen Hahn wrote: > >> Okay. So, the obvious next question: slip election poll, or open >> with original dates? > >With 2 full weeks to vote, I'd prefer we get on with it. There's >plenty of time left to reach everyone who wants to be reached. > Yes. I also think that we perhaps should go with some form of counting only "registered voters"; people who have submitted a SSH key. Casper From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Mon Mar 12 07:08:55 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:08:55 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <21C33165-6403-4F62-AD3E-3EE4E8B5010B@gmail.com> References: <21C33165-6403-4F62-AD3E-3EE4E8B5010B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45f55ef7.N9wMfTnDKFwkFmHB%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Simon Phipps wrote: > To all OGB Candidates: > > I'd like to record an interview with each of you and podcast it from > my blog during the next week. We would talk via Skype and I would > record the conversation and podcast it unedited (well, with a jingle > at the front and end and an intro, and maybe with phone clicks and > beeps smoothed out, but without changing the content). > > Interested? Let me know. I am interested and available but I will leave Berlin for Cebit at Wednesday in the evening..... I will be back on March 22th. If you like to do it before you would need to to it today or tomorrow. J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From stefanparvu14 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 06:37:25 2007 From: stefanparvu14 at yahoo.com (Stefan Parvu) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:37:25 PDT Subject: [cab-discuss] Board Elections 2007 question Message-ID: <13746360.1173706685891.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Hey, Regarding the coming elections for the new board: can any OpenSolaris member vote for the new board group or is it selected to a different and minimal audience ? When this will start ? As I understood from http://opensolaris.org/os/project/website/poll_instructions/ being a simple member will do. However when trying to ssh to poll.opensolaris.org I get this: "... No open eligible elections at present. Connection to poll.opensolaris.org closed. " Any ideas ? stefan This message posted from opensolaris.org From al at logical-approach.com Mon Mar 12 07:35:59 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:35:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Board Elections 2007 question In-Reply-To: <13746360.1173706685891.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <13746360.1173706685891.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Stefan Parvu wrote: [ ... reformatted ... ] > Hey, > > Regarding the coming elections for the new board: can any OpenSolaris > member vote for the new board group or is it selected to a different and > minimal audience ? When this will start ? Voting for the OGB Election is limited to Core Contributors only. > As I understood from > http://opensolaris.org/os/project/website/poll_instructions/ being a > simple member will do. However when trying to ssh to > poll.opensolaris.org I get this: > > "... > No open eligible elections at present. > Connection to poll.opensolaris.org closed. > " > > Any ideas ? I'll let Stephen Hahn answer this portion of you question - as he is the Subject Matter Expert in this arena. Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From al at logical-approach.com Mon Mar 12 07:38:40 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:38:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Board Elections 2007 question In-Reply-To: <13746360.1173706685891.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <13746360.1173706685891.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Stefan Parvu wrote: > Hey, > > Regarding the coming elections for the new board: can any OpenSolaris > member vote for the new board group or is it selected to a different and > minimal audience ? When this will start ? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sorry missed that.. The election calendar is at: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/#electioncalendar ... snip ... Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Mon Mar 12 07:56:42 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:56:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070312012046.GB4214@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070312011018.GB370816@sun.com> <20070312012046.GB4214@sun.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Stephen Hahn wrote: > * Keith M Wesolowski [2007-03-11 18:10]: >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 03:26:17PM -0700, Stephen Hahn wrote: >> >>> Nope (-announce, -code, -discuss). I'm almost done sending out a >>> message now, however. >> >> My understanding was that all registered users are on -announce unless >> they explicitly remove themselves. Is this still the case? > > Dan and I were talking about that the other day, and came away > uncertain. Let me go check... No, definitely not. (And probably not > true during my involvement: there are 538 members.) Nor mine. Eric From garrett at damore.org Mon Mar 12 08:04:44 2007 From: garrett at damore.org (Garrett D'Amore) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:04:44 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F56C0C.90306@damore.org> Al Hopper wrote: > > > The big picture is that, if the Constitution is not ratified, then, at the > end of March, Sun will, at its sole discretion, extend the existing OGB, > or, convene a replacement as it sees fit. There is also a potential issue > in that existing OGB members may not accept another term, if granted by > extension. > > Questions to the OGB Candidates: > > a) what would you do in this situation? > If the Constitution (and a new OGB) are not approved, then I'm not sure there is anything in particular that I could do about it (unless I was appointed by Sun to the new OGB). I'd continue to work with whatever OGB was appointed by Sun. If I was _appointed_, then I would work with all diligence to address the problem of getting a constitution and community-elected OGB installed, without any other "side issues". In other words, at this point, I don't think it is appropriate for an appointed (as opposed to elected) OGB to be working on _anything_ else. > b) how agressive should the OGB be, in respect to ensuring that the > current core contributors participate/vote in the OGB election? > Quite. Individual pestering via e-mail (not via list, but direct) or even telephone contact can be used. Its very important that we have sufficient turnout. > b1) for example, would it be fair to post a list of the core contributors > who have yet to vote? > I think so. I would first contact the members individually via e-mail, and maybe inform the leaders of the communities they are involved in. > b2) should a core contributor loose his/her core contrib status if he/she > is not prepared to make the effort to vote? > I think that is a bit extreme. There may be some particular reason why a Core Contributor cannot participate in an election. In the case of this next election, I think it is critical that this _not_ be done, because _not_ participating is one significant way of voting _against_ the Constitution. :-) I do think we should tell Community Group leaders whether they are being represented by their Core Contributors though, because, frankly, one can consider that these Core Contributors are in some way being selected to represent the interests of the Community Groups. An individual Community Group can, I suppose, decide to revoke a Core Contributor grant if the individual isn't participating in the election process. > c) what is the best way to approach each core contributor to persuade them > to vote? > Individual contact (not via list, because they are more likely to get filtered off into oblivion.) Near the end of the election, it may be appropriate to actually _telephone_ candidates who have not responded. The SSH key generation process is a bit unwieldy, and may limit participation. If there is something we can do to assist (maybe walk people who are having trouble through it over the phone), that might help. The other thing is that we need to let these contributors know just how important it is that they participate. I imagine that a lot of contributors don't fully realize just who important this whole process is. > d) how important is it to the OpenSolaris project to get a newly elected > OGB installed and operational? > Very. Because, IMO, it is inappropriate to have an OGB doing anything else if it is not properly elected. > e) how comfortable are you leaving these decisions to Sun if we don't > get a reasonably high percentage of the core contributors to vote? > Not very. I would trust Sun to elect well-qualified individuals, but I would be very concerned that the resulting OGB would have the necessary legitimacy to get much done. I also worry that this might leave some members feeling disenfranchised, if they do not feel that they are able to have any significant input input into the governance of the group. -- Garrett From stevel at sun.com Mon Mar 12 08:27:17 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:27:17 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070312012456.GC4214@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> <20070312012456.GC4214@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070312152717.GL385627@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 06:24:57PM -0700, Stephen Hahn wrote: > * Al Hopper [2007-03-11 18:18]: > > Stephen: How confusing will the poll.opensolaris.org page look if the test > > poll overlaps the OGB election? > > Not very. There will be a list of polls on the web page (two entries) > and a menu of entries in the voting client (two entries) for voters > who haven't voted in either poll. If you've already voted or the poll > has closed, you won't get the menu, but be dropped directly into the > ballot collection process for whatever vote remains. Somewhat confusingly... I logged in and selected: USER: Stephen Lau (stevel) GRANT: CORE CONTRIBUTOR, tools, expiring Tue Feb 24 00:32:45 2009 POLLS: 1 - Community Priorities/Polling Test (1 question), closes Tue Mar 13 23:59:59 2007 PDT [#1] 2 - Board Election 2007/Ratify Constitution (2 questions), closes Mon Mar 26 23:59:59 2007 PDT [#2] Enter your selected poll --> 1 which I would expect to only ask me questions for poll #1 Except after I answered the priorities question, it immediately went onto Poll #2. -steve > > > If the answer is "confusing" then we can't have an overlap and the test > > poll should end on schedule. If its not confusing, then extend the test > > poll by 24 to 48 hours to give voters a chance to use the test poll to > > register their SSH key and gain familiarity with the polling software. > > In either case, I'd like to stick to the original OGB election calendar > > and concentrate our efforts on getting a high voter turnout percentage. > > Okay. I'll extend the test poll close by 48 hours, and open the > election/ratification for midnight tonight. > > (Oh, and I can turn around results in only a few minutes...) > > - Stephen > > -- > Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems > stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ > _______________________________________________ > cab-discuss mailing list > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Mon Mar 12 08:31:16 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:31:16 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070312153116.GM385627@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 08:18:11PM -0500, Al Hopper wrote: > Questions to the OGB Candidates: > > a) what would you do in this situation? Proceed on schedule. 2 weeks is plenty of time as Keith pointed out. > b) how agressive should the OGB be, in respect to ensuring that the > current core contributors participate/vote in the OGB election? It's always a good thing to increase voting awareness. Don't just harrass people. > b1) for example, would it be fair to post a list of the core contributors > who have yet to vote? No. Shaming people in public is not the way to build a community of voters. > b2) should a core contributor loose his/her core contrib status if he/she > is not prepared to make the effort to vote? No. Perhaps they just don't have a strong opinion on this current vote. That shouldn't preclude them from future elections. > c) what is the best way to approach each core contributor to persuade them > to vote? sch's email seemed sufficient to me. I don't think there is honestly a core contributor (UG community aside, maybe) who doesn't think this should be conducted by a form other than email. > d) how important is it to the OpenSolaris project to get a newly elected > OGB installed and operational? Extremely important. > e) how comfortable are you leaving these decisions to Sun if we don't > get a reasonably high percentage of the core contributors to vote? Not at all comfortable. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Mon Mar 12 08:39:35 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:39:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Al's questions (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> Message-ID: I'm not a candidate, but wanted to reply to these questions anyway... On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Al Hopper wrote: > > b) how agressive should the OGB be, in respect to ensuring that the > current core contributors participate/vote in the OGB election? Send them individual mails this time, but just this once. _Clearly_ it's an oxymoron to consider an individual who does not take the time/effort to track community announcements a Core Contributor. (Note, do not generalize this sentiment to the act of casting a vote however. If someone chooses to not vote (e.g. abstain), which is in itself a form of a vote, this should not taint their status as a Core Contributor.) > b1) for example, would it be fair to post a list of the core contributors > who have yet to vote? Given the current state of the status of core contribitor membership inclusion policies/process/etc., clearly this would be unfair. > b2) should a core contributor loose his/her core contrib status if he/she > is not prepared to make the effort to vote? No. (OTOH, if he/she is not prepared to stay informed of the existance of an election, definitely yes.) > c) what is the best way to approach each core contributor to persuade them > to vote? I do not believe in pursuading adults to vote. Being an adult and being unaware of the impact voting/abstaining has on an important election is also an oxymoron. (By contrast, however, I do believe in persuading people to stay informed.) > d) how important is it to the OpenSolaris project to get a newly elected > OGB installed and operational? Medium. > e) how comfortable are you leaving these decisions to Sun if we don't > get a reasonably high percentage of the core contributors to vote? This seesm like a poorly formed question. The decisions would continue to be made as they are currently being made, not "by Sun". Eric From sks at cvok.co.uk Mon Mar 12 08:53:29 2007 From: sks at cvok.co.uk (Sean Sprague) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:53:29 -0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Board Elections 2007 question In-Reply-To: References: <13746360.1173706685891.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <476003A8.2010505@cvok.co.uk> Al, > Sorry missed that.. The election calendar is at: > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/#electioncalendar I did like the bits in the schedule such as: Campaigning Closes Sun Mar 11th (24:00 hrs) Election Voting Opens Mon Mar 12th (00:00 hrs) I do appreciate the usability aspect of these times - no nasty odd-numbered digits to have to deal with... ;-) Regards... Sean. From stefanparvu14 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 08:32:21 2007 From: stefanparvu14 at yahoo.com (Stefan Parvu) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:32:21 PDT Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Board Elections 2007 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20585370.1173713580642.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> thanks for info. stefan This message posted from opensolaris.org From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Mon Mar 12 09:26:50 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 11:26:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: <20070311223551.GC3890@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <55934.72.39.216.186.1173641553.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F45FB9.4010003@sun.com> <20070311223551.GC3890@sun.com> Message-ID: Stephen Hahn wrote: > ... > > (If participation remains dire, it might be interesting to run an "I > accept Core Contributor" status vote--no vote takes one to lost > status. That would get us back to the participating members.) > ... +1 from me. What do other people think of this suggestion? Eric From Casper.Dik at Sun.COM Mon Mar 12 09:37:07 2007 From: Casper.Dik at Sun.COM (Casper.Dik at Sun.COM) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:37:07 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <55934.72.39.216.186.1173641553.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F45FB9.4010003@sun.com> <20070311223551.GC3890@sun.com> Message-ID: <200703121637.l2CGbMUx018977@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> >Stephen Hahn wrote: >> ... >> >> (If participation remains dire, it might be interesting to run an "I >> accept Core Contributor" status vote--no vote takes one to lost >> status. That would get us back to the participating members.) >> ... > >+1 from me. > >What do other people think of this suggestion? How long would such a poll be run for? What appeal process would there be? What about making the election process have two steps: - registering your SSH key indicates willingness to vote - only registered voters count towards quorum (So you can be a "non-voting" core contributor because you don't care about election and you just want to grind code; or you can be a voting core contributor because you have too much time on your hands) Casper From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Mon Mar 12 09:55:42 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 11:55:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: <200703121637.l2CGbMUx018977@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <55934.72.39.216.186.1173641553.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F45FB9.4010003@sun.com> <20070311223551.GC3890@sun.com> <200703121637.l2CGbMUx018977@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: > >> Stephen Hahn wrote: >>> ... >>> >>> (If participation remains dire, it might be interesting to run an "I >>> accept Core Contributor" status vote--no vote takes one to lost >>> status. That would get us back to the participating members.) >>> ... >> >> +1 from me. >> >> What do other people think of this suggestion? > > > How long would such a poll be run for? I'd suggest a long time (2 weeks? At least a week for sure.) > What appeal process would there be? A very accomodating one I think. IOW, if someone appeals within a reasonable time, they're back in no questions asked. (It'd interesting to see, even with a very, very acommodating approach, how much the voting ranks would _still_ get trimmed by. A lot, I bet.) > What about making the election process have two steps: > > - registering your SSH key indicates willingness to vote > - only registered voters count towards quorum > > (So you can be a "non-voting" core contributor because you don't care > about election and you just want to grind code; or you can be a voting > core contributor because you have too much time on your hands) I like this. Eric From garrett at damore.org Mon Mar 12 10:06:57 2007 From: garrett at damore.org (Garrett D'Amore) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:06:57 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: <200703121637.l2CGbMUx018977@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <55934.72.39.216.186.1173641553.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F45FB9.4010003@sun.com> <20070311223551.GC3890@sun.com> <200703121637.l2CGbMUx018977@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: <45F588B1.7010100@damore.org> Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: > > > > What about making the election process have two steps: > > - registering your SSH key indicates willingness to vote > - only registered voters count towards quorum > > > (So you can be a "non-voting" core contributor because you don't care > about election and you just want to grind code; or you can be a voting > core contributor because you have too much time on your hands) > Yikes. I'm uncomfortable with this because I think we need a large enough quorum of voters (not just a 10-20% count of active contributors) to have a meaningful result. We also don't know _affirmatively_ how many people have _tried_ to setup an SSH key and have just silently given up. I don't want to disenfranchise those people, especially since we have no idea whether they might actually represent a larger number of people than those who _have_ registered --- I had problems with my personally, and it required manual intervention by someone on website-discuss@ to fix. -- Garrett From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Mon Mar 12 10:37:53 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 12:37:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: <45F588B1.7010100@damore.org> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <55934.72.39.216.186.1173641553.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F45FB9.4010003@sun.com> <20070311223551.GC3890@sun.com> <200703121637.l2CGbMUx018977@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45F588B1.7010100@damore.org> Message-ID: Garrett D'Amore wrote: > ... > > We also don't know _affirmatively_ how many people have _tried_ to setup > an SSH key and have just silently given up. True, but in the interest of being accommodating (see my last post) we can also be very accommodating in doing outreach and offering help to them. Justification for giving up is diminishing due to recent adjustments too. Eric From dclarke at blastwave.org Mon Mar 12 10:39:53 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: <45F588B1.7010100@damore.org> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <55934.72.39.216.186.1173641553.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F45FB9.4010003@sun.com> <20070311223551.GC3890@sun.com> <200703121637.l2CGbMUx018977@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <45F588B1.7010100@damore.org> Message-ID: <56854.72.39.216.186.1173721193.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: >> >> >> >> What about making the election process have two steps: >> >> - registering your SSH key indicates willingness to vote >> - only registered voters count towards quorum >> >> >> (So you can be a "non-voting" core contributor because you don't care >> about election and you just want to grind code; or you can be a voting >> core contributor because you have too much time on your hands) >> > > Yikes. I'm uncomfortable with this because I think we need a large > enough quorum of voters (not just a 10-20% count of active contributors) > to have a meaningful result. > > We also don't know _affirmatively_ how many people have _tried_ to setup > an SSH key and have just silently given up. I don't want to > disenfranchise those people, especially since we have no idea whether > they might actually represent a larger number of people than those who > _have_ registered --- I had problems with my personally, and it required > manual intervention by someone on website-discuss@ to fix. which is why I started to write : http://www.blastwave.org/articles/BLS-0061/index.html dc From sch at sun.com Mon Mar 12 10:50:10 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:50:10 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Board Elections 2007 question In-Reply-To: References: <13746360.1173706685891.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <20070312175010.GC9227@sun.com> * Al Hopper [2007-03-12 07:36]: > On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Stefan Parvu wrote: > > [ ... reformatted ... ] > > Hey, > > > > Regarding the coming elections for the new board: can any OpenSolaris > > member vote for the new board group or is it selected to a different and > > minimal audience ? When this will start ? > > Voting for the OGB Election is limited to Core Contributors only. > > > As I understood from > > http://opensolaris.org/os/project/website/poll_instructions/ being a > > simple member will do. However when trying to ssh to > > poll.opensolaris.org I get this: > > > > "... > > No open eligible elections at present. > > Connection to poll.opensolaris.org closed. > > " > > > > Any ideas ? > > I'll let Stephen Hahn answer this portion of you question - as he is the > Subject Matter Expert in this arena. The "No open eligible elections" message is displayed if: - Your set of contributor grants do not currently qualify you for the set of open polls. - You have voted in all the presently open polls you are eligible for. If your contributor grants would allow you to vote, and you haven't voted, then we have a bug (or an MD5 hash collision!). - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sch at sun.com Mon Mar 12 10:59:25 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:59:25 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070312152717.GL385627@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> <20070312012456.GC4214@sun.com> <20070312152717.GL385627@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20070312175924.GD9227@sun.com> * Stephen Lau [2007-03-12 08:27]: > On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 06:24:57PM -0700, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > * Al Hopper [2007-03-11 18:18]: > > > Stephen: How confusing will the poll.opensolaris.org page look if the test > > > poll overlaps the OGB election? > > > > Not very. There will be a list of polls on the web page (two entries) > > and a menu of entries in the voting client (two entries) for voters > > who haven't voted in either poll. If you've already voted or the poll > > has closed, you won't get the menu, but be dropped directly into the > > ballot collection process for whatever vote remains. > > Somewhat confusingly... I logged in and selected: > USER: Stephen Lau (stevel) > GRANT: CORE CONTRIBUTOR, tools, expiring Tue Feb 24 00:32:45 2009 > > POLLS: > 1 - Community Priorities/Polling Test (1 question), closes Tue Mar 13 > 23:59:59 2007 PDT [#1] > 2 - Board Election 2007/Ratify Constitution (2 questions), closes Mon > Mar 26 23:59:59 2007 PDT [#2] > > Enter your selected poll --> 1 > > which I would expect to only ask me questions for poll #1 > Except after I answered the priorities question, it immediately went > onto Poll #2. If you prefer, it could dump you out after completing the poll. It's basically loop if no polls break else if more than one poll menu to select poll else select only poll end if collect ballot for selected poll end loop So the second time around, you're in the "select only poll case". (Don't forget you can always type "quit" as a response.) - Stephen From sch at sun.com Mon Mar 12 11:00:48 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 11:00:48 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Proposed ballot In-Reply-To: <45F4FE36.8090407@Sun.Com> References: <20070312045409.GA8846@sun.com> <45F4F56C.6040109@Sun.Com> <20070312064912.GC8991@sun.com> <45F4FE36.8090407@Sun.Com> Message-ID: <20070312180048.GE9227@sun.com> * John Plocher [2007-03-12 00:18]: > I would try to be simple - something like > > This is a simple yes/no vote. At the end of the voting period, > the resolution will be the choice with the most votes, > whether or not that choice has more than half the votes counted - the > technical term for this is "first past the post". Well, that's true if there are only two answers, but this question type can also handle three or more answers. The respondent is restricted to a single choice in their response. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From stevel at sun.com Mon Mar 12 11:38:26 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 11:38:26 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070312175924.GD9227@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> <20070312012456.GC4214@sun.com> <20070312152717.GL385627@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <20070312175924.GD9227@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F59E22.5090203@sun.com> Stephen Hahn wrote: > * Stephen Lau [2007-03-12 08:27]: >> On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 06:24:57PM -0700, Stephen Hahn wrote: >>> * Al Hopper [2007-03-11 18:18]: >>>> Stephen: How confusing will the poll.opensolaris.org page look if the test >>>> poll overlaps the OGB election? >>> Not very. There will be a list of polls on the web page (two entries) >>> and a menu of entries in the voting client (two entries) for voters >>> who haven't voted in either poll. If you've already voted or the poll >>> has closed, you won't get the menu, but be dropped directly into the >>> ballot collection process for whatever vote remains. >> Somewhat confusingly... I logged in and selected: >> USER: Stephen Lau (stevel) >> GRANT: CORE CONTRIBUTOR, tools, expiring Tue Feb 24 00:32:45 2009 >> >> POLLS: >> 1 - Community Priorities/Polling Test (1 question), closes Tue Mar 13 >> 23:59:59 2007 PDT [#1] >> 2 - Board Election 2007/Ratify Constitution (2 questions), closes Mon >> Mar 26 23:59:59 2007 PDT [#2] >> >> Enter your selected poll --> 1 >> >> which I would expect to only ask me questions for poll #1 >> Except after I answered the priorities question, it immediately went >> onto Poll #2. > > If you prefer, it could dump you out after completing the poll. It's > basically > > loop > if no polls > break > else if more than one poll > menu to select poll > else > select only poll > end if > > collect ballot for selected poll > end loop > > So the second time around, you're in the "select only poll case". > (Don't forget you can always type "quit" as a response.) > - Stephen Ah, I guess I expected the 'menu to select poll' to pop up regardless. At the risk of having it prompt the user one more time - it does seem more explicit that way. -steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From flash at systemnews.com Mon Mar 12 11:24:24 2007 From: flash at systemnews.com (John J McLaughlin) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:24:24 -0400 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: In-Reply-To: <21C33165-6403-4F62-AD3E-3EE4E8B5010B@gmail.com> References: <21C33165-6403-4F62-AD3E-3EE4E8B5010B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45F59AD8.1020706@systemnews.com> Hi Simon, I will be available for an interview with you later this week. How's Thursday, EST? -johnj Simon Phipps wrote: > To all OGB Candidates: > > I'd like to record an interview with each of you and podcast it from > my blog during the next week. We would talk via Skype and I would > record the conversation and podcast it unedited (well, with a jingle > at the front and end and an intro, and maybe with phone clicks and > beeps smoothed out, but without changing the content). > > Interested? Let me know. > > S. > _____ > *Simon Phipps,* Chief Open Source Officer, Sun Microsystems > /Tel:/ +1 650 352 6327/USx69758 /Web:/ www.webmink.net, /AIM:/ webmink > /Current timezone: /UTC (UK) > > > [apologies if you get two of these but I am having mail server problems] -- John J. McLaughlin, Editor-in-Chief/CTO, System News Inc. Publishers of "SunFlash" (http://sunflash.sun.com) "System News for Sun Users" and "System News for Sun iForce Partners" flash at systemnews.com +1 (954) 234 8990 http://sun.systemnews.com LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/e/fpf/228699 From sch at SUN.COM Mon Mar 12 12:43:59 2007 From: sch at SUN.COM (Stephen Hahn) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 12:43:59 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <45F59E22.5090203@sun.com> References: <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> <20070312012456.GC4214@sun.com> <20070312152717.GL385627@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <20070312175924.GD9227@sun.com> <45F59E22.5090203@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070312194359.GG9227@sun.com> * Stephen Lau [2007-03-12 11:40]: > Stephen Hahn wrote: > > If you prefer, it could dump you out after completing the poll. It's > > basically > > > > loop > > if no polls > > break > > else if more than one poll > > menu to select poll > > else > > select only poll > > end if > > > > collect ballot for selected poll > > end loop > > > > So the second time around, you're in the "select only poll case". > > (Don't forget you can always type "quit" as a response.) > > Ah, I guess I expected the 'menu to select poll' to pop up regardless. > At the risk of having it prompt the user one more time - it does seem > more explicit that way. It can certainly be "if I've shown the menu once this session, then always show it". I'll have a look. Cheers Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sch at sun.com Mon Mar 12 13:48:37 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:48:37 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Contributors alias now open Message-ID: <20070312204837.GA9481@sun.com> The 353 Contributors and Core Contributors have been subscribed to the subscription-moderated contributors at opensolaris.org list. This list, I believe, is intended to cover both announcements and discussion of topics of particular interest to these active Community participants. The list is archived publicly at http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/contributors/ (No messages yet, however.) At present, the contributor grant system does not automatically subscribe members to the list. We'll figure that one out after the election... - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From mike.kupfer at sun.com Mon Mar 12 15:28:51 2007 From: mike.kupfer at sun.com (Mike Kupfer) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:28:51 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: Message from Casper.Dik@sun.com of "Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:37:07 BST." <200703121637.l2CGbMUx018977@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: <2848.1173738531@athyra> >>>>> "Casper" == Casper Dik writes: Casper> What about making the election process have two steps: Casper> - registering your SSH key indicates willingness to vote But you also need to register your key in order to commit changes. So I'm wary of using it to indicate willingness to vote. Casper> - only registered voters count towards quorum I like the idea of somehow limiting the quorum to account for lack of participation by members. I've belonged to a couple cooperatives over the years, and inability to meet the quorum requirement was a frequent problem. The current draft consitution requires approval by a majority of all members, not just voting members, for any changes. But if I understand correctly, the ratification vote is based on number of voting members. This seems like a dangerous combination, since it means we could end up with a constitution that is, for all practical purposes, set in stone. mike From Bonnie.Corwin at Sun.COM Mon Mar 12 15:57:19 2007 From: Bonnie.Corwin at Sun.COM (Bonnie Corwin) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 16:57:19 -0600 Subject: [cab-discuss] can't access Bio/Position Message-ID: <45F5DACF.3040104@Sun.COM> Hi, It might just be me, but I can't access Garrett's Bio and Position from http://opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status. I can access Alan Coopersmith's. But when I click on Garrett's, I get an empty browser window that says 'Done'. Thanks. Bonnie From stevel at sun.com Mon Mar 12 16:11:25 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 16:11:25 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] can't access Bio/Position In-Reply-To: <45F5DACF.3040104@Sun.COM> References: <45F5DACF.3040104@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <45F5DE1D.5030602@sun.com> It loads up okay for me. Bonnie Corwin wrote: > Hi, > > It might just be me, but I can't access Garrett's Bio and Position from > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status. > > I can access Alan Coopersmith's. But when I click on Garrett's, I get > an empty browser window that says 'Done'. > > Thanks. > > Bonnie > _______________________________________________ > cab-discuss mailing list > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From garrett at damore.org Mon Mar 12 16:25:56 2007 From: garrett at damore.org (Garrett D'Amore) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 16:25:56 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] can't access Bio/Position In-Reply-To: <45F5DACF.3040104@Sun.COM> References: <45F5DACF.3040104@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <45F5E184.9090208@damore.org> Bonnie Corwin wrote: > Hi, > > It might just be me, but I can't access Garrett's Bio and Position > from http://opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status. > > I can access Alan Coopersmith's. But when I click on Garrett's, I get > an empty browser window that says 'Done'. > > Thanks. > > Bonnie > _______________________________________________ > cab-discuss mailing list > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org Hmm... I can certainly see it. I wonder what is going on. I'm going to try changing the blogger template I'm using to see if that helps. -- Garrett From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Mon Mar 12 17:28:27 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:28:27 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: <2848.1173738531@athyra> References: <200703121637.l2CGbMUx018977@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <2848.1173738531@athyra> Message-ID: <20070313002827.GC411388@sun.com> On Mon, Mar 12, 2007 at 03:28:51PM -0700, Mike Kupfer wrote: > The current draft consitution requires approval by a majority of all > members, not just voting members, for any changes. But if I understand > correctly, the ratification vote is based on number of voting members. > This seems like a dangerous combination, since it means we could end up > with a constitution that is, for all practical purposes, set in stone. It seemed to me that it required a majority of all eligible members in order to ratify or modify. -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From fielding at gbiv.com Mon Mar 12 17:36:17 2007 From: fielding at gbiv.com (Roy T. Fielding) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:36:17 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: <2848.1173738531@athyra> References: <2848.1173738531@athyra> Message-ID: <62A4FEDF-493B-489A-ACAC-85D3F393F3E9@gbiv.com> On Mar 12, 2007, at 3:28 PM, Mike Kupfer wrote: > The current draft consitution requires approval by a majority of all > members, not just voting members, for any changes. But if I > understand > correctly, the ratification vote is based on number of voting members. That is incorrect. The OGB decided that the ratification vote would be held by the same terms as any future amendments: a majority of the members of record must vote yes in order for it to be ratified. That is specifically to avoid the screw-case that you mentioned. If the constitution fails to be ratified by the community, then the OGB still has all the powers delegated to it by Sun, and may choose to do the work itself or resign in favor of a new board (also appointed by Sun) in order to continue work on reaching ratification. In any case, if the ratification fails with no public proposals for amendments, then the right thing for the OGB to do next is figure out what the entry barrier is to voting. If the people on the membership list were unable to register for the poll, then we tweak the voting software to make it easier and start a new poll. If the people on the membership list don't care enough to register and vote, then the wrong people are on the core contributor list. They should be moved to contributor status and the people actually involved in the community governance should be allowed to vote again. Apache, for example, has never had difficulty getting people to vote: Meeting Ratio of members in attendance (including by proxy) 20000311 30/ 38 (annual meeting where board is elected) 20001022 27/ 46 20010403 45/ 56 (annual) 20020521 41/ 62 (annual) 20021118 41/ 79 20030618 55/ 89 (annual) 20040518 82/126 (annual) 20041114 71/132 20050524 89/139 (annual) 20051211 87/151 20060613 112/180 (annual) As much as I appreciate examples from other communities, the group of people that have to make the decision for ratification *here* is going to be different from any other group of people. Blaming the mechanism only goes so far -- the people here must learn how to make open decisions even if it costs them a little extra personal time to get off their duff and be counted. If they can't make that tiny bit of personal sacrifice, then they can't be trusted with governance of OpenSolaris as a project open to outside contributors, and therefore should be moved to contributor status to better reflect their actual level of participation. Making the process less open in order to appeal to a subset of members (such as by moving it to a mass-meeting teleconference hosted by Sun) would be failure incarnate. Communities cannot be more open than their decision-making procedure. The constitution only needs to be changed if a significant number of members vote "no", or if an amendment is proposed and passed along with a subsequent vote on ratification. ....Roy From binarycrusader at gmail.com Mon Mar 12 17:51:22 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:51:22 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> Message-ID: On 12/03/07, Al Hopper wrote: > Questions to the OGB Candidates: > > a) what would you do in this situation? Continue on with the current schedule, but make all reasonable efforts to ensure that the vote is publicised and that people are notified and encourage to vote. > b) how agressive should the OGB be, in respect to ensuring that the > current core contributors participate/vote in the OGB election? All reasonable efforts should be made to ensure contributors are aware of the vote and are encouraged to participate. However, the right to abstain from voting is just as important. > b1) for example, would it be fair to post a list of the core contributors > who have yet to vote? I am not comfortable with a "name and shame" approach to voting since not voting is not a reliable indicator of anything about the individual. They could choose to not vote or be unable to vote for any number of reasons. > b2) should a core contributor loose his/her core contrib status if he/she > is not prepared to make the effort to vote? No; almost all of these individuals will have earned their status as a contributor by earning it through means other than voting. As a result, it seems unfair to remove that status because of them choosing to not vote (intentionally or not). > c) what is the best way to approach each core contributor to persuade them > to vote? There are a few things that can be done: * Ensure that the poll and vote is very visible from the OpenSolaris website. * Ensure that at least one initial reminder is sent out to every eligible voter * Ensure that the voting process is as clear and accessible as possible > d) how important is it to the OpenSolaris project to get a newly elected > OGB installed and operational? I think it is very important so that the community feels that they are represented and so that existing members that have not chosen to run for "re-election" can get the rest they deserve. > e) how comfortable are you leaving these decisions to Sun if we don't > get a reasonably high percentage of the core contributors to vote? I am not comfortable at all with that, not because I don't trust Sun (they helped pick the first one after all!), but because I would be apprehensive about the community's view (even outside the OpenSolaris community) of such an action. I believe that community representation is paramount to the long term growth and stability of this community. -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From binarycrusader at gmail.com Mon Mar 12 18:25:58 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:25:58 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <55934.72.39.216.186.1173641553.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F45FB9.4010003@sun.com> <20070311223551.GC3890@sun.com> Message-ID: On 13/03/07, Eric Boutilier wrote: > Stephen Hahn wrote: > > ... > > > > (If participation remains dire, it might be interesting to run an "I > > accept Core Contributor" status vote--no vote takes one to lost > > status. That would get us back to the participating members.) > > ... > > +1 from me. > > What do other people think of this suggestion? To vote in some countries, an individual has to indicate a willingness to do so, at least once, by registering to vote. To a certain extent, that seems to apply here as well. With that said, if the only difference between a core contributor and a contributor is voting ability, then I would say that those that do not vote should only be contributors. In which case, the poll in question would be good. However, part of me says that removing "core" status from a contributor in this way seems wrong since they achieved "core" status through means completely unrelated to voting. -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Mon Mar 12 19:01:16 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:01:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: <62A4FEDF-493B-489A-ACAC-85D3F393F3E9@gbiv.com> References: <2848.1173738531@athyra> <62A4FEDF-493B-489A-ACAC-85D3F393F3E9@gbiv.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Roy T. Fielding wrote: > On Mar 12, 2007, at 3:28 PM, Mike Kupfer wrote: >> The current draft consitution requires approval by a majority of all >> members, not just voting members, for any changes. But if I understand >> correctly, the ratification vote is based on number of voting members. > > That is incorrect. The OGB decided that the ratification vote would > be held by the same terms as any future amendments: a majority of the > members of record must vote yes in order for it to be ratified. That > is specifically to avoid the screw-case that you mentioned. > > If the constitution fails to be ratified by the community, then the > OGB still has all the powers delegated to it by Sun, and may choose to > do the work itself or resign in favor of a new board (also appointed > by Sun) in order to continue work on reaching ratification. > > In any case, if the ratification fails with no public proposals for > amendments, then the right thing for the OGB to do next is figure out > what the entry barrier is to voting. If the people on the membership > list were unable to register for the poll, then we tweak the voting > software to make it easier and start a new poll. If the people on > the membership list don't care enough to register and vote, then > the wrong people are on the core contributor list. They should be > moved to contributor status and the people actually involved in the > community governance should be allowed to vote again. Apache, > for example, has never had difficulty getting people to vote: > > Meeting Ratio of members in attendance (including by proxy) > 20000311 30/ 38 (annual meeting where board is elected) > 20001022 27/ 46 > 20010403 45/ 56 (annual) > 20020521 41/ 62 (annual) > 20021118 41/ 79 > 20030618 55/ 89 (annual) > 20040518 82/126 (annual) > 20041114 71/132 > 20050524 89/139 (annual) > 20051211 87/151 > 20060613 112/180 (annual) > > As much as I appreciate examples from other communities, the group > of people that have to make the decision for ratification *here* is > going to be different from any other group of people. Blaming the > mechanism only goes so far -- the people here must learn how to make > open decisions even if it costs them a little extra personal time to > get off their duff and be counted. If they can't make that tiny bit > of personal sacrifice, then they can't be trusted with governance of > OpenSolaris as a project open to outside contributors, and therefore > should be moved to contributor status to better reflect their > actual level of participation. Making the process less open in > order to appeal to a subset of members (such as by moving it to a > mass-meeting teleconference hosted by Sun) would be failure incarnate. > Communities cannot be more open than their decision-making procedure. > > The constitution only needs to be changed if a significant number > of members vote "no", or if an amendment is proposed and passed > along with a subsequent vote on ratification. > > ....Roy > _______________________________________________ > cab-discuss mailing list > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org Puh-lease. Most of this diatribe is like a the proverbial "solution in search of a problem": A fervently stated argument that's practically void of anyone holding an opposing view. Eric From James.McPherson at Sun.COM Mon Mar 12 19:25:19 2007 From: James.McPherson at Sun.COM (James C. McPherson) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:25:19 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F60B8F.6090101@Sun.COM> Al Hopper wrote: [snip] > Questions to the OGB Candidates: > > a) what would you do in this situation? Extend the poll closing date, send an email to opensolaris-announce providing the details as to why, and strongly encouraging all who are eligible to vote. > b) how agressive should the OGB be, in respect to ensuring that the > current core contributors participate/vote in the OGB election? Send an email to opensolaris-announce and strongly encouraging all who are eligible, to actually to vote. The email should also offer assistance to those who find the process difficult. > b1) for example, would it be fair to post a list of the core contributors > who have yet to vote? Hell no! If we want to refute any possible concerns about heavying of voters, then we should start by not publicising who has and hasn't voted. > b2) should a core contributor loose his/her core contrib status if he/she > is not prepared to make the effort to vote? As others have argued, there are a number of valid reasons why a core contributor might not have voted. I think failing to vote in three successive polls (assuming we have more than just an OGB poll each year) would be grounds for a "show cause" email, with responses evaluated by the whole OGB and a leader from the relevant Community Group. > c) what is the best way to approach each core contributor to persuade them > to vote? email first, then irc / instant messaging, then phone, assuming that those details are available. > d) how important is it to the OpenSolaris project to get a newly elected > OGB installed and operational? Very. I view it as being an essential part of leaving the nest, and one which once successful will help to demonstrate to those outside our community that we're not just a lackey / tool of Sun. > e) how comfortable are you leaving these decisions to Sun if we don't > get a reasonably high percentage of the core contributors to vote? Not very comfortable at all. I agree with Garrett on this one - if we get into the state where a new OGB is appointed rather than elected, then whoever is on the new OGB must devote their efforts to making sure that a replacement vote can be held with a more representative turnout. James C. McPherson -- Solaris kernel software engineer Sun Microsystems From mgerdts at gmail.com Mon Mar 12 19:52:03 2007 From: mgerdts at gmail.com (Mike Gerdts) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:52:03 -0500 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> Message-ID: <65f8f3ad0703121952u6db318ccy9a9ac045ca4d17a7@mail.gmail.com> On 3/11/07, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the > ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core Contributors of > whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the > poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should extend > any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly > impossible)? > > - Stephen Perhaps I'm unique here, but I did not even realize that I held core contributor status in a community until I received a personalized nag message sometime in the last 24 hours. A search of my gmail account for '"core contributor" to:me' turned up nothing of interest. A google search shows nothing in mail archives or the web site that would lead me to believe that my status is anything other than a contributor. My "member page" on opensolaris.org says nothing about being a contributor or core contributor to any community. The polls.opensolaris.org site is the only place that I see me listed as a core contributor Strictly speaking, since I have not accepted such a designation, I should not be considered a core contributor. (Assuming that I really should have been offered, I would gladly accept.) Is this a breakdown in communication or bad data hanging out somewhere? Mike -- Mike Gerdts http://mgerdts.blogspot.com/ From sch at sun.com Mon Mar 12 19:57:22 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:57:22 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Test poll penetration In-Reply-To: <65f8f3ad0703121952u6db318ccy9a9ac045ca4d17a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <65f8f3ad0703121952u6db318ccy9a9ac045ca4d17a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070313025722.GB12462@sun.com> * Mike Gerdts [2007-03-12 19:52]: > On 3/11/07, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > > > With about 12 hours before the test poll closes and the > > ratification/election poll opens, we have 261 Core Contributors of > > whom 63 have SSH keys (24%) and 39 (15%) have participated in the > > poll. I'll send out nag mail, but I'm wondering if we should extend > > any of our time periods (since an affirmative majority is clearly > > impossible)? > > Perhaps I'm unique here, but I did not even realize that I held core > contributor status in a community until I received a personalized nag > message sometime in the last 24 hours. A search of my gmail account > for '"core contributor" to:me' turned up nothing of interest. A > google search shows nothing in mail archives or the web site that > would lead me to believe that my status is anything other than a > contributor. My "member page" on opensolaris.org says nothing about > being a contributor or core contributor to any community. The > polls.opensolaris.org site is the only place that I see me listed as a > core contributor > > Strictly speaking, since I have not accepted such a designation, I > should not be considered a core contributor. (Assuming that I really > should have been offered, I would gladly accept.) > > Is this a breakdown in communication or bad data hanging out somewhere? The former; that's why the Board asked for the contributors alias. The grants system is outside the current user database (which has a limited role system). At some point, the user registration module is expected to integrate the grants information. I believe your core contributor grant was a revision made by the Zones Community Group, but I can check my records, if you're concerned. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sch at sun.com Mon Mar 12 21:23:12 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:23:12 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Interesting twist: abstentions Message-ID: <20070313042311.GD12615@sun.com> I have a new occurrence: a Core Contributor who has made many contributions--in advocacy, technical efforts, and explanations--but sincerely wishes to abstain from the election and ratification. The voting system actually allows questions to be skipped (although none of the polls so far has included a question with skippable set), but I'm very interested in understanding what people think about the expressed position, how we might determine when an expression of abstention is allowed, and how we would interpret an abstention with the affirmative majority. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sommerfeld at sun.com Tue Mar 13 09:36:36 2007 From: sommerfeld at sun.com (Bill Sommerfeld) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:36:36 -0400 Subject: [cab-discuss] Interesting twist: abstentions In-Reply-To: <20070313042311.GD12615@sun.com> References: <20070313042311.GD12615@sun.com> Message-ID: <1173803796.2344.9.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2007-03-12 at 21:23 -0700, Stephen Hahn wrote: > I'm very interested in understanding what people think about the > expressed position, how we might determine when an expression of > abstention is allowed, and how we would interpret an abstention with > the affirmative majority. I think the correct interpretation of an abstention is an affirmative statement of "I trust the rest of you to do the right thing". - Bill From fielding at gbiv.com Tue Mar 13 10:29:55 2007 From: fielding at gbiv.com (Roy T. Fielding) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:29:55 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Interesting twist: abstentions In-Reply-To: <20070313042311.GD12615@sun.com> References: <20070313042311.GD12615@sun.com> Message-ID: <96224C6A-F0DE-4DE9-B92C-ACD6566333ED@gbiv.com> On Mar 12, 2007, at 9:23 PM, Stephen Hahn wrote: > I have a new occurrence: a Core Contributor who has made many > contributions--in advocacy, technical efforts, and explanations--but > sincerely wishes to abstain from the election and ratification. The > voting system actually allows questions to be skipped (although none > of the polls so far has included a question with skippable set), but > I'm very interested in understanding what people think about the > expressed position, how we might determine when an expression of > abstention is allowed, and how we would interpret an abstention with > the affirmative majority. An abstention counts as attendance toward quorum but not a vote. It is a good thing to record for any online voting system, since it demonstrates involvement in the process even if the person does not wish to state an opinion on common majority items, or if they object to the way a question is phrased. For STV, an abstention should be able to be recorded as an empty list of candidates. For the ratification vote, an abstention has the equivalent effect as a "no" vote, but without the desire for change. In general, any yes/no vote should offer yes/no/abstain as the options. I don't know if we can do that for this election, but we definitely should have that option for future polls. ....Roy From sch at sun.com Tue Mar 13 10:34:16 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:34:16 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Interesting twist: abstentions In-Reply-To: <96224C6A-F0DE-4DE9-B92C-ACD6566333ED@gbiv.com> References: <20070313042311.GD12615@sun.com> <96224C6A-F0DE-4DE9-B92C-ACD6566333ED@gbiv.com> Message-ID: <20070313173416.GA13325@sun.com> * Roy T. Fielding [2007-03-13 10:29]: > On Mar 12, 2007, at 9:23 PM, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > > I have a new occurrence: a Core Contributor who has made many > > contributions--in advocacy, technical efforts, and explanations--but > > sincerely wishes to abstain from the election and ratification. The > > voting system actually allows questions to be skipped (although none > > of the polls so far has included a question with skippable set), but > > I'm very interested in understanding what people think about the > > expressed position, how we might determine when an expression of > > abstention is allowed, and how we would interpret an abstention with > > the affirmative majority. > > An abstention counts as attendance toward quorum but not a vote. > It is a good thing to record for any online voting system, since > it demonstrates involvement in the process even if the person > does not wish to state an opinion on common majority items, or > if they object to the way a question is phrased. > > For STV, an abstention should be able to be recorded as an empty > list of candidates. > > For the ratification vote, an abstention has the equivalent effect > as a "no" vote, but without the desire for change. In general, > any yes/no vote should offer yes/no/abstain as the options. I don't > know if we can do that for this election, but we definitely should > have that option for future polls. The tool supports {set of question-specific answers, "quit", "skip" if skippable} as legitimate answers to any question. I'll go and change the poll to allow both questions to be skippable (and make "abstain" a synonym). - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From fielding at gbiv.com Tue Mar 13 11:28:46 2007 From: fielding at gbiv.com (Roy T. Fielding) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:28:46 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: <45F62865.7090004@Sun.Com> References: <2848.1173738531@athyra> <62A4FEDF-493B-489A-ACAC-85D3F393F3E9@gbiv.com> <45F62865.7090004@Sun.Com> Message-ID: On Mar 12, 2007, at 9:28 PM, John Plocher wrote: >>> If the constitution fails to be ratified by the community, then the >>> OGB still has all the powers delegated to it by Sun, and may >>> choose to >>> do the work itself or resign in favor of a new board (also appointed >>> by Sun) in order to continue work on reaching ratification. > > Unless there is a NEW OGB elected, in which case, there is no need > for Sun to appoint anyone.... Well, to be honest, I can't tell from the wording in the charter whether the OGB is allowed to elect itself in the absence of a ratified charter. Nor do I particularly care, since I will resign regardless and I expect Sun to support the appointment of whoever is elected by the community (assuming we reach quorum on the vote). Further thought on that matter is a waste of neurons. >>> The constitution only needs to be changed if a significant number >>> of members vote "no", or if an amendment is proposed and passed >>> along with a subsequent vote on ratification. > > Since there does not seem to be any way now for members to suggest > amendments, much less get them on the ballot, this seems moot... They don't need to be on *this* ballot. Amendments can be proposed at any time, by anyone, in email. I suggest they be discussed first on cab-discuss (hopefully renamed to ogb at opensolaris) and then discussed on the new contributors list once the proposal is in the form of a complete wording change. After discussion, the rules for inserting them on an official ballot are described in the constitution. ....Roy From fielding at gbiv.com Tue Mar 13 11:39:35 2007 From: fielding at gbiv.com (Roy T. Fielding) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:39:35 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: References: <2848.1173738531@athyra> <62A4FEDF-493B-489A-ACAC-85D3F393F3E9@gbiv.com> Message-ID: On Mar 12, 2007, at 7:01 PM, Eric Boutilier wrote: > Puh-lease. Most of this diatribe is like a the proverbial "solution in > search of a problem": A fervently stated argument that's > practically void > of anyone holding an opposing view. It was an answer to several questions posed on the thread. Unlike some people with diarrhea of the fingers, I don't respond to every message in rapid-fire succession. If you disagree with my response, then say why. If you don't care, then try a little courtesy. ....Roy From sch at sun.com Tue Mar 13 11:56:19 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:56:19 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Interesting twist: abstentions In-Reply-To: <20070313173416.GA13325@sun.com> References: <20070313042311.GD12615@sun.com> <96224C6A-F0DE-4DE9-B92C-ACD6566333ED@gbiv.com> <20070313173416.GA13325@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070313185619.GA19343@sun.com> * Stephen Hahn [2007-03-13 10:34]: > * Roy T. Fielding [2007-03-13 10:29]: > > On Mar 12, 2007, at 9:23 PM, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > > > > I have a new occurrence: a Core Contributor who has made many > > > contributions--in advocacy, technical efforts, and explanations--but > > > sincerely wishes to abstain from the election and ratification. The > > > voting system actually allows questions to be skipped (although none > > > of the polls so far has included a question with skippable set), but > > > I'm very interested in understanding what people think about the > > > expressed position, how we might determine when an expression of > > > abstention is allowed, and how we would interpret an abstention with > > > the affirmative majority. > > > > An abstention counts as attendance toward quorum but not a vote. > > It is a good thing to record for any online voting system, since > > it demonstrates involvement in the process even if the person > > does not wish to state an opinion on common majority items, or > > if they object to the way a question is phrased. > > > > For STV, an abstention should be able to be recorded as an empty > > list of candidates. > > > > For the ratification vote, an abstention has the equivalent effect > > as a "no" vote, but without the desire for change. In general, > > any yes/no vote should offer yes/no/abstain as the options. I don't > > know if we can do that for this election, but we definitely should > > have that option for future polls. > > The tool supports {set of question-specific answers, "quit", "skip" if > skippable} as legitimate answers to any question. I'll go and change > the poll to allow both questions to be skippable (and make "abstain" a > synonym). Changes to support abstentions to all ballot questions have been tested and are now deployed. (Also deployed: Steve's smart menu RFE.) - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From roland.mainz at nrubsig.org Tue Mar 13 16:39:58 2007 From: roland.mainz at nrubsig.org (Roland Mainz) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:39:58 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] polls machinery: "Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/opensolaris.org/bin/vote-sh", line 87, in ?" Message-ID: <45F7364E.66BDE79B@nrubsig.org> Hi! ---- I just did a quick test login on poll.opensolars.org and then tried to leave without making a vote (for now). The output looks like this: -- snip -- POLLS: 1 - Community Priorities/Polling Test (1 question), closes Tue Mar 13 23:59:59 2007 PDT [#1] 2 - Board Election 2007/Ratify Constitution (2 questions), closes Mon Mar 26 23:59:59 2007 PDT [#2] Enter your selected poll --> 0 ERROR: out of range: 0 Enter your selected poll --> Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/opensolaris.org/bin/vote-sh", line 87, in ? votes += poll_selection(dbc, user, my_polls) File "/opt/dscm/lib/python2.4/site-packages/Voting.py", line 523, in poll_selection """, accept_valid_poll, len(polls))) File "/opt/dscm/lib/python2.4/site-packages/Voting.py", line 87, in assisted_input if accept_fn(response, accept_args): File "/opt/dscm/lib/python2.4/site-packages/Voting.py", line 487, in accept_valid_poll print "ERROR: invalid response \"%s\"" % result NameError: global name 'result' is not defined Connection to poll.opensolaris.org closed. -- snip -- 1. What about replacing the whole traceback with a message "An error was saved to file XYZ" ... IMO the current Traceback exposes too many details (uses phyton and displays lots of paths... ;-( ) about the poll machinery... 2. A selection of "0", "q", "quit" or EOF should exit the poll 3. Add a choice to get some minor help 4. It would be nice to display the current time on the poll machine ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz at nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From sch at sun.com Tue Mar 13 16:59:06 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:59:06 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] polls machinery: "Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/opensolaris.org/bin/vote-sh", line 87, in ?" In-Reply-To: <45F7364E.66BDE79B@nrubsig.org> References: <45F7364E.66BDE79B@nrubsig.org> Message-ID: <20070313235905.GA22160@sun.com> * Roland Mainz [2007-03-13 16:40]: > > Hi! > > ---- > > > I just did a quick test login on poll.opensolars.org and then tried to > leave without making a vote (for now). The output looks like this: > -- snip -- > POLLS: > 1 - Community Priorities/Polling Test (1 question), closes Tue Mar 13 > 23:59:59 2007 PDT [#1] > 2 - Board Election 2007/Ratify Constitution (2 questions), closes Mon > Mar 26 23:59:59 2007 PDT [#2] > > Enter your selected poll --> 0 > ERROR: out of range: 0 > Enter your selected poll --> > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/opt/opensolaris.org/bin/vote-sh", line 87, in ? > votes += poll_selection(dbc, user, my_polls) > File "/opt/dscm/lib/python2.4/site-packages/Voting.py", line 523, in > poll_selection > """, accept_valid_poll, len(polls))) > File "/opt/dscm/lib/python2.4/site-packages/Voting.py", line 87, in > assisted_input > if accept_fn(response, accept_args): > File "/opt/dscm/lib/python2.4/site-packages/Voting.py", line 487, in > accept_valid_poll > print "ERROR: invalid response \"%s\"" % result > NameError: global name 'result' is not defined > Connection to poll.opensolaris.org closed. > -- snip -- > > 1. What about replacing the whole traceback with a message "An error was > saved to file XYZ" ... IMO the current Traceback exposes too many > details (uses phyton and displays lots of paths... ;-( ) about the poll > machinery... Please report tracebacks. I'll fix this one. > 2. A selection of "0", "q", "quit" or EOF should exit the poll quit will do this. EOF and "q", okay. 0, no. > 3. Add a choice to get some minor help Did you type "help"? > 4. It would be nice to display the current time on the poll machine Okay. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From roland.mainz at nrubsig.org Tue Mar 13 17:13:29 2007 From: roland.mainz at nrubsig.org (Roland Mainz) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 01:13:29 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] polls machinery: "Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/opensolaris.org/bin/vote-sh", line 87, in ?" References: <45F7364E.66BDE79B@nrubsig.org> <20070313235905.GA22160@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F73E29.AC9A874C@nrubsig.org> Stephen Hahn wrote: > * Roland Mainz [2007-03-13 16:40]: [snip] > > 1. What about replacing the whole traceback with a message "An error was > > saved to file XYZ" ... IMO the current Traceback exposes too many > > details (uses phyton and displays lots of paths... ;-( ) about the poll > > machinery... > > Please report tracebacks. See previous email for the one I hit... > I'll fix this one. Thanks! :-) > > 2. A selection of "0", "q", "quit" or EOF should exit the poll > > quit will do this. EOF and "q", okay. 0, no. Ok... > > 3. Add a choice to get some minor help > > Did you type "help"? No (and I didn't dare to try that since it wasn't my intention to play around with the voting system). > > 4. It would be nice to display the current time on the poll machine > > Okay. Another idea: My voting session ended with: -- snip -- COMMIT BALLOT (y/n) --> y RECORDED: ballot c44866sa1an424bd11c1c44866666666666c448 on "Board Election 2007/Ratify Constitution" from Roland Mainz Connection to poll.opensolaris.org closed. -- snip -- It may be nice if the voting system would send a confirmation email for each "block" of votes submitted, including the 'RECORDED: ballot c44766cafee424bd11c1c44866666666666c448 on "cafeteria needs better food" from Chicken Monster'-line in the email (not the choices during a vote itself, just the ballot identifier). ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz at nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From sch at sun.com Tue Mar 13 17:32:44 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:32:44 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] polls machinery: "Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/opensolaris.org/bin/vote-sh", line 87, in ?" In-Reply-To: <45F73E29.AC9A874C@nrubsig.org> References: <45F7364E.66BDE79B@nrubsig.org> <20070313235905.GA22160@sun.com> <45F73E29.AC9A874C@nrubsig.org> Message-ID: <20070314003244.GB22160@sun.com> * Roland Mainz [2007-03-13 17:13]: > Stephen Hahn wrote: > > * Roland Mainz [2007-03-13 16:40]: These are now fixed and deployed. > Another idea: > My voting session ended with: > -- snip -- > COMMIT BALLOT (y/n) --> y > RECORDED: ballot c44866sa1an424bd11c1c44866666666666c448 on "Board > Election 2007/Ratify Constitution" from Roland Mainz > Connection to poll.opensolaris.org closed. > -- snip -- > > It may be nice if the voting system would send a confirmation email for > each "block" of votes submitted, including the 'RECORDED: ballot > c44766cafee424bd11c1c44866666666666c448 on "cafeteria needs better food" > from Chicken Monster'-line in the email (not the choices during a vote > itself, just the ballot identifier). Yes, I've been thinking about that. I'll look at the code; it may require some reorganization. Probably not tonight. Thanks for the feedback--and for voting! - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From roland.mainz at nrubsig.org Tue Mar 13 18:12:00 2007 From: roland.mainz at nrubsig.org (Roland Mainz) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 02:12:00 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] polls machinery: "Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/opensolaris.org/bin/vote-sh", line 87, in ?" References: <45F7364E.66BDE79B@nrubsig.org> <20070313235905.GA22160@sun.com> <45F73E29.AC9A874C@nrubsig.org> <20070314003244.GB22160@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F74BE0.451F52B@nrubsig.org> Stephen Hahn wrote: > * Roland Mainz [2007-03-13 17:13]: > > Stephen Hahn wrote: > > > * Roland Mainz [2007-03-13 16:40]: > > These are now fixed and deployed. Thanks! :-) > > Another idea: > > My voting session ended with: > > -- snip -- > > COMMIT BALLOT (y/n) --> y > > RECORDED: ballot c44866sa1an424bd11c1c44866666666666c448 on "Board > > Election 2007/Ratify Constitution" from Roland Mainz > > Connection to poll.opensolaris.org closed. > > -- snip -- > > > > It may be nice if the voting system would send a confirmation email for > > each "block" of votes submitted, including the 'RECORDED: ballot > > c44766cafee424bd11c1c44866666666666c448 on "cafeteria needs better food" > > from Chicken Monster'-line in the email (not the choices during a vote > > itself, just the ballot identifier). > > Yes, I've been thinking about that. I'll look at the code; it may > require some reorganization. Probably not tonight. What about using a more general appoach: 1. Forward all emails generated for the matching Unix account on poll.opensolaris.org to the email address specified in the opensolaris.org account 2. Dump message string to /usr/bin/mail and send it to ${LOGNAME} (e.g. youself - which will forward the email via [1] (we use the same solution for our Unix machines (e.g. for all emails from cron, at, accounting etc.))) > Thanks for the feedback--and for voting! No problem... :-) ---- Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz at nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Tue Mar 13 21:44:09 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:44:09 +0900 Subject: [cab-discuss] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <21C33165-6403-4F62-AD3E-3EE4E8B5010B@gmail.com> References: <21C33165-6403-4F62-AD3E-3EE4E8B5010B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45F77D99.2000907@Sun.COM> Sounds good. I'm in Japan, so we'll have to work a time. I'll catch you on IM. Thanks, Jim Simon Phipps wrote On 03/10/07 13:17,: > To all OGB Candidates: > > I'd like to record an interview with each of you and podcast it from my > blog during the next week. We would talk via Skype and I would record > the conversation and podcast it unedited (well, with a jingle at the > front and end and an intro, and maybe with phone clicks and beeps > smoothed out, but without changing the content). > > Interested? Let me know. > > S. > _____ > *Simon Phipps,* Chief Open Source Officer, Sun Microsystems > /Tel:/ +1 650 352 6327/USx69758 /Web:/ www.webmink.net, /AIM:/ webmink > /Current timezone: /UTC (UK) From sch at sun.com Wed Mar 14 10:46:04 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:46:04 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] polls machinery: "Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/opensolaris.org/bin/vote-sh", line 87, in ?" In-Reply-To: <45F78B5A.8090903@Sun.Com> References: <45F7364E.66BDE79B@nrubsig.org> <20070313235905.GA22160@sun.com> <45F78B5A.8090903@Sun.Com> Message-ID: <20070314174604.GB1243@sun.com> * John Plocher [2007-03-13 22:45]: > Stephen Hahn wrote: > > >>POLLS: > >>1 - Community Priorities/Polling Test (1 question), closes Tue Mar 13 > >>23:59:59 2007 PDT [#1] > >>2 - Board Election 2007/Ratify Constitution (2 questions), closes Mon > >>Mar 26 23:59:59 2007 PDT [#2] > >> > >>Enter your selected poll --> 0 > > >>3. Add a choice to get some minor help > > > > Did you type "help"? > > > What part of this UI would lead me to believe that typing random > English words (like exit or help or quit) is allowed? This part? $ ssh poll.opensolaris.org Last login: Tue Mar 13 17:33:28 2007 from 192.18.42.17 opensolaris.org Vote Recorder (poll) You may enter "help" or "quit" at any prompt. Links to further instructions are provided at http://poll.opensolaris.org/ .... > It would be good to indicate what inputs are allowed [and the default]: > > Enter your selected poll (1..2, help, [quit]) --> Noted. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From sch at sun.com Wed Mar 14 11:56:07 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:56:07 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results Message-ID: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> Posted at http://poll.opensolaris.org/1/ Summary: 1. Deploy a public defect management system 2. Deploy a public Request To Integrate (RTI) system 3. Deploy a public code review facility on opensolaris.org 4. Reorganize the existing Community/Project organization 5. Deploy a public wiki on opensolaris.org. Discuss! - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Wed Mar 14 12:28:58 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:28:58 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070314192858.GA578282@sun.com> On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 11:56:07AM -0700, Stephen Hahn wrote: > Summary: > > 1. Deploy a public defect management system > 2. Deploy a public Request To Integrate (RTI) system > 3. Deploy a public code review facility on opensolaris.org > 4. Reorganize the existing Community/Project organization > 5. Deploy a public wiki on opensolaris.org. > > Discuss! One question I'd have for those who voted for #2 ahead of #4: Who should be responsible for approving RTIs (or for that matter, requiring approval of same), and under what authority would they operate? -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Mar 14 12:46:51 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:46:51 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> Message-ID: Stephen Hahn wrote: > > Posted at > > http://poll.opensolaris.org/1/ One big surprise to me was the Jive item. My impression has been that there's broad disdain for Jive and that it was causing great heartburn for many. Apparently the large majority of voters either: totally stay away from Jive (and therefore don't care much what does/doesn't happen to it), or they use it and they're (at least) OK with it. Eric From James.McPherson at Sun.COM Wed Mar 14 12:51:58 2007 From: James.McPherson at Sun.COM (James C. McPherson) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 06:51:58 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F8525E.6090505@Sun.COM> Stephen Hahn wrote: > Posted at > > http://poll.opensolaris.org/1/ > > Summary: > > 1. Deploy a public defect management system > 2. Deploy a public Request To Integrate (RTI) system > 3. Deploy a public code review facility on opensolaris.org > 4. Reorganize the existing Community/Project organization > 5. Deploy a public wiki on opensolaris.org. > > Discuss! There is no link to the results directly on poll.opensolaris.org, and there is no splash-page or banner announcing their existence. There should be. cheers, James C. McPherson -- Solaris kernel software engineer Sun Microsystems From Alan.Hargreaves at Sun.COM Wed Mar 14 12:50:34 2007 From: Alan.Hargreaves at Sun.COM (Alan Hargreaves) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 06:50:34 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <20070314192858.GA578282@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <20070314192858.GA578282@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F8520A.2040608@Sun.COM> Keith M Wesolowski wrote: > On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 11:56:07AM -0700, Stephen Hahn wrote: > >> Summary: >> >> 1. Deploy a public defect management system >> 2. Deploy a public Request To Integrate (RTI) system >> 3. Deploy a public code review facility on opensolaris.org >> 4. Reorganize the existing Community/Project organization >> 5. Deploy a public wiki on opensolaris.org. >> >> Discuss! > > One question I'd have for those who voted for #2 ahead of #4: Who > should be responsible for approving RTIs (or for that matter, > requiring approval of same), and under what authority would they > operate? > I would think that would have to remain the area of the consolidations and the c-teams (or whatever they get called) to decide on the appropriate consolidation based framework. The reason that I voted that way was not so much for the ability to log an RTI externally (although that is a worthy goal and should have a relatively high priority within the "project" to deploy such a beast), but for the transparency that an external RTI process would give. alan. -- Alan Hargreaves - http://blogs.sun.com/tpenta Staff Engineer (Kernel/VOSJEC/Performance) Systems Technical Service Center Sun Microsystems From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Wed Mar 14 13:01:42 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:01:42 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> Eric Boutilier wrote: > Stephen Hahn wrote: >> >> Posted at >> >> http://poll.opensolaris.org/1/ > > One big surprise to me was the Jive item. My impression has > been that there's broad disdain for Jive and that it was > causing great heartburn for many. Apparently the large > majority of voters either: totally stay away from Jive (and > therefore don't care much what does/doesn't happen to it), or > they use it and they're (at least) OK with it. For my vote, as much as I hate Jive, it's not as big an obstacle to OpenSolaris success as the many other issues I voted higher priority. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From sch at sun.com Wed Mar 14 13:02:01 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:02:01 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <45F8525E.6090505@Sun.COM> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F8525E.6090505@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20070314200200.GA1724@sun.com> * James C. McPherson [2007-03-14 12:51]: > Stephen Hahn wrote: > > Posted at > > > > http://poll.opensolaris.org/1/ > > > > Summary: > > > > 1. Deploy a public defect management system > > 2. Deploy a public Request To Integrate (RTI) system > > 3. Deploy a public code review facility on opensolaris.org > > 4. Reorganize the existing Community/Project organization > > 5. Deploy a public wiki on opensolaris.org. > > > > Discuss! > > There is no link to the results directly on > poll.opensolaris.org, and there is no splash-page > or banner announcing their existence. There > should be. All true; I can only apologize for the finiteness of my abilities. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From garrett at damore.org Wed Mar 14 13:03:40 2007 From: garrett at damore.org (Garrett D'Amore) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:03:40 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <20070314192858.GA578282@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <20070314192858.GA578282@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F8551C.8050404@damore.org> Keith M Wesolowski wrote: > On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 11:56:07AM -0700, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > >> Summary: >> >> 1. Deploy a public defect management system >> 2. Deploy a public Request To Integrate (RTI) system >> 3. Deploy a public code review facility on opensolaris.org >> 4. Reorganize the existing Community/Project organization >> 5. Deploy a public wiki on opensolaris.org. >> >> Discuss! >> > > One question I'd have for those who voted for #2 ahead of #4: Who > should be responsible for approving RTIs (or for that matter, > requiring approval of same), and under what authority would they > operate? > Excellent point. I think we need ARCs, but we also need some gatekeeping organization. I do not believe that that Community/Project organization necessarily follows along the consolidation boundaries that would manage putbacks, however. This is a good question for the new OGB to contemplate. -- Garrett From Casper.Dik at Sun.COM Wed Mar 14 13:04:05 2007 From: Casper.Dik at Sun.COM (Casper.Dik at Sun.COM) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:04:05 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> Message-ID: <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> >For my vote, as much as I hate Jive, it's not as big an obstacle >to OpenSolaris success as the many other issues I voted higher >priority. Same; I never use Jive. Casper From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Wed Mar 14 13:04:28 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:04:28 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F8554C.2000109@sun.com> Stephen Hahn wrote: > Posted at > > http://poll.opensolaris.org/1/ Can you explain the format of the "Raw Ballots" link? At first glance it appears everyone voted for item 1 as top priority, but it also appears later in many lines too. Is the first column the poll id and the rest the votes? -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From garrett at damore.org Wed Mar 14 13:06:47 2007 From: garrett at damore.org (Garrett D'Amore) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:06:47 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: <45F855D7.9040903@damore.org> Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: >> For my vote, as much as I hate Jive, it's not as big an obstacle >> to OpenSolaris success as the many other issues I voted higher >> priority. >> > > Same; I never use Jive. > I go to Jive archives occasionally to look in groups I don't read. It is adequate (barely) to the task. But compared to the other projects, the group has much bigger fish to fry. -- Garrett From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Mar 14 13:06:43 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:06:43 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F855D3.2090607@sun.com> Stephen Hahn wrote: > Posted at > > http://poll.opensolaris.org/1/ > > Summary: > > 1. Deploy a public defect management system > 2. Deploy a public Request To Integrate (RTI) system > 3. Deploy a public code review facility on opensolaris.org > 4. Reorganize the existing Community/Project organization > 5. Deploy a public wiki on opensolaris.org. > > Discuss! Surprised by a couple of things - My inability to realize that we were only voting for 5 places - Jive getting eliminated first - Despite having 3 and 5 available elsewhere, it seems people want an official resource - Tonic folks, ignore 2-5 for now, and concentrate on 1. If I understand the numbers correctly, it's by far and away our largest priority - Can anything be said about the voter distribution based on the polls? I'm surprised RTI is as high as it is. - Also vaguely indicates that no on seems keen to actually step up to the plate and be part of a wider infrastructure team to work on this stuff - A turnout of 88 people. Would be interesting to see what impact (if any) the extension and/or mail nag had. We're still a long way short of getting 50% to vote. Glynn From James.McPherson at Sun.COM Wed Mar 14 13:07:47 2007 From: James.McPherson at Sun.COM (James C. McPherson) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 07:07:47 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <20070314200200.GA1724@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F8525E.6090505@Sun.COM> <20070314200200.GA1724@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F85613.7010603@Sun.COM> Stephen Hahn wrote: > * James C. McPherson [2007-03-14 12:51]: >> Stephen Hahn wrote: >>> Posted at >>> >>> http://poll.opensolaris.org/1/ >>> >>> Summary: >>> >>> 1. Deploy a public defect management system >>> 2. Deploy a public Request To Integrate (RTI) system >>> 3. Deploy a public code review facility on opensolaris.org >>> 4. Reorganize the existing Community/Project organization >>> 5. Deploy a public wiki on opensolaris.org. >>> >>> Discuss! >> There is no link to the results directly on >> poll.opensolaris.org, and there is no splash-page >> or banner announcing their existence. There >> should be. > > All true; I can only apologize for the finiteness of my abilities. I guess we'll have to take away your cape then. You can keep the rest of your super powers :-) cheers, James C. McPherson -- Solaris kernel software engineer Sun Microsystems From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Mar 14 13:09:27 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:09:27 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <20070314200200.GA1724@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F8525E.6090505@Sun.COM> <20070314200200.GA1724@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F85677.5060803@sun.com> Stephen Hahn wrote: > * James C. McPherson [2007-03-14 12:51]: >> Stephen Hahn wrote: >>> Posted at >>> >>> http://poll.opensolaris.org/1/ >>> >>> Summary: >>> >>> 1. Deploy a public defect management system >>> 2. Deploy a public Request To Integrate (RTI) system >>> 3. Deploy a public code review facility on opensolaris.org >>> 4. Reorganize the existing Community/Project organization >>> 5. Deploy a public wiki on opensolaris.org. >>> >>> Discuss! >> There is no link to the results directly on >> poll.opensolaris.org, and there is no splash-page >> or banner announcing their existence. There >> should be. > > All true; I can only apologize for the finiteness of my abilities. What can we (me) do to help on this front? It's about time for Stephen to front up to new hurdles ;) Glynn From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Wed Mar 14 13:29:52 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:29:52 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <45F855D3.2090607@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F855D3.2090607@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070314202952.GB578282@sun.com> On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 09:06:43AM +1300, Glynn Foster wrote: > - Despite having 3 and 5 available elsewhere, it seems people > want an official resource Taken as a whole, these results suggest that what people are really looking for is an integrated end-to-end open workflow. That is, for tools that aid rather than hinder and obscure. It's not surprising that code review would be a part of that. > - Tonic folks, ignore 2-5 for now, and concentrate on 1. If I > understand the numbers correctly, it's by far and away our > largest priority I'm a bit confused by your reaction here, as I thought this was supposed to be about the OGB's priorities. While the Tonic team has accomplished much and continues to work hard, it will no longer be directly responsible for any of these tasks. We cannot wait 10 years for the underresourced Tonic team to implement these features one by one, dragging Sun tools into the open as funding permits. Instead, we should conduct a process similar to that being used to evaluate and implement SCM for each missing piece of functionality. If the Tonic team can commit resources in a particular area, it's welcome and encouraged to submit a proposal. If not, someone else will need to step in. Sun management must decide, and express through the allocation of resources, how much importance it attaches to the continued use of each of the existing closed tools. > - Can anything be said about the voter distribution based on > the polls? I'm surprised RTI is as high as it is. As am I, but only because the consolidations would lack the ability to enforce integration requirements under the proposed constitution without CG restructuring. > - Also vaguely indicates that no on seems keen to actually > step up to the plate and be part of a wider infrastructure > team to work on this stuff That conclusion is valid only if one assumes that the Tonic team is responsible for delivering the goods. It isn't. -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From dclarke at blastwave.org Wed Mar 14 13:35:59 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:35:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: <62330.72.39.216.186.1173904559.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > >>For my vote, as much as I hate Jive, it's not as big an obstacle >>to OpenSolaris success as the many other issues I voted higher >>priority. > > Same; I never use Jive. I will be really honest and simply say that I do use the maillists which are based on Mailman. Until this voting process began I did not know what Jive was. That is how insignificant it is to me. - Dennis Clarke From ian at ianshome.com Wed Mar 14 13:40:56 2007 From: ian at ianshome.com (Ian Collins) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:40:56 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: <62330.72.39.216.186.1173904559.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <62330.72.39.216.186.1173904559.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: <45F85DD8.1050101@ianshome.com> Dennis Clarke wrote: >>>For my vote, as much as I hate Jive, it's not as big an obstacle >>>to OpenSolaris success as the many other issues I voted higher >>>priority. >>> >>> >>Same; I never use Jive. >> >> > > I will be really honest and simply say that I do use the maillists which >are based on Mailman. Until this voting process began I did not know what >Jive was. That is how insignificant it is to me. > > > You are not alone, I had to check up to see what it was! Ian From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Mar 14 13:48:21 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:48:21 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <20070314202952.GB578282@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F855D3.2090607@sun.com> <20070314202952.GB578282@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F85F95.9040408@sun.com> Keith M Wesolowski wrote: >> - Tonic folks, ignore 2-5 for now, and concentrate on 1. If I >> understand the numbers correctly, it's by far and away our >> largest priority > > I'm a bit confused by your reaction here, as I thought this was > supposed to be about the OGB's priorities. While the Tonic team has > accomplished much and continues to work hard, it will no longer be > directly responsible for any of these tasks. We cannot wait 10 years > for the underresourced Tonic team to implement these features one by > one, dragging Sun tools into the open as funding permits. Instead, we > should conduct a process similar to that being used to evaluate and > implement SCM for each missing piece of functionality. If the Tonic > team can commit resources in a particular area, it's welcome and > encouraged to submit a proposal. If not, someone else will need to > step in. Sun management must decide, and express through the > allocation of resources, how much importance it attaches to the > continued use of each of the existing closed tools. Hrm, that was on the assumption that the current web team == Tonic, which I know it technically isn't. But yeah, on reading back through it, it's a pretty foolish comment to make. I guess what I'm saying is that we now have to look very seriously at whether it will be possible to release our current tool chain (including bugster). If that's not looking likely [1], then you're absolutely right, we shouldn't hold off for that to magically happen and continue on working and evaluating alternatives. Glynn [1] And really, I'm disappointed at the severe lack of information that has been floated on the public mailing lists about it. I *know* (or heard rumours) there is work/discussion going on behind the scenes, but I don't know the status. It's never going to be a community project to replace the tools if all the information about them is currently behind a wall. From sch at sun.com Wed Mar 14 14:18:53 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:18:53 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <45F8554C.2000109@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F8554C.2000109@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070314211853.GB1724@sun.com> * Alan Coopersmith [2007-03-14 13:04]: > Stephen Hahn wrote: > > Posted at > > > > http://poll.opensolaris.org/1/ > > Can you explain the format of the "Raw Ballots" link? At first > glance it appears everyone voted for item 1 as top priority, but > it also appears later in many lines too. Is the first column the > poll id and the rest the votes? This is the so-called BLT format, which apparently comes from the Electoral Reform Society in the UK. I've been working from the sample ballots on http://stv.sf.net (and sites using OpenSTV or its component modules). The first column of the ballot section is the ballot's weight. Here's the docstring comment in emit_blt(), from vote-cat.py: """From http://stv.sf.net, we have the BLT format: 4 2 # four candidates are competing for two seats -2 # Bob has withdrawn (only print if there were withdrawls!) 1 4 1 3 2 0 # first ballot 1 2 4 1 3 0 1 1 4 2 3 0 # The first number is the ballot weight (>= 1). 1 1 2 4 3 0 # The last 0 is an end of ballot marker. 1 1 4 3 0 # Numbers inbetween correspond to the candidates 1 3 2 4 1 0 # on the ballot. 1 3 4 1 2 0 1 3 4 1 2 0 # Chuck, Diane, Amy, Bob 1 4 3 2 0 1 2 3 4 1 0 # last ballot 0 # end of ballots marker "Amy" # candidate 1 "Bob" # candidate 2 "Chuck" # candidate 3 "Diane" # candidate 4 "Gardening Club Election" # title where the '#' characters are actually illegal. We don't presently offer withdrawls. Our output is thus 0 "" "" ... ": " which we send to standard output. """ - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From al at logical-approach.com Wed Mar 14 14:23:12 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:23:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: <45F85613.7010603@Sun.COM> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F8525E.6090505@Sun.COM> <20070314200200.GA1724@sun.com> <45F85613.7010603@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2007, James C. McPherson wrote: > Stephen Hahn wrote: > > * James C. McPherson [2007-03-14 12:51]: > >> Stephen Hahn wrote: > >>> Posted at > >>> > >>> http://poll.opensolaris.org/1/ > >>> > >>> Summary: > >>> > >>> 1. Deploy a public defect management system > >>> 2. Deploy a public Request To Integrate (RTI) system > >>> 3. Deploy a public code review facility on opensolaris.org > >>> 4. Reorganize the existing Community/Project organization > >>> 5. Deploy a public wiki on opensolaris.org. > >>> > >>> Discuss! > >> There is no link to the results directly on > >> poll.opensolaris.org, and there is no splash-page > >> or banner announcing their existence. There > >> should be. > > > > All true; I can only apologize for the finiteness of my abilities. > > I guess we'll have to take away your cape then. > > You can keep the rest of your super powers :-) Super powers indeed! :) I'd like to thank Stephen for all the hard work he did on poll.opensolaris.org in such a short timeframe. The results of the poll are very useful and have already proven the value of the poll facility to the entire community. Now that's said, I'd really like Stephen to apply his Super Powers to #1 - "Deploy a public defect management system", and do for this, what he already did (*very* successfully) for the OpenSolaris SCM tool selection and deployment. Someone with less super powers will have to handle the website update! :) Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From mgerdts at gmail.com Wed Mar 14 18:17:27 2007 From: mgerdts at gmail.com (Mike Gerdts) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 20:17:27 -0500 Subject: [cab-discuss] Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> Message-ID: <65f8f3ad0703141817sd7c0d4bn142901b95723a243@mail.gmail.com> On 3/14/07, Eric Boutilier wrote: > One big surprise to me was the Jive item. My impression has > been that there's broad disdain for Jive and that it was > causing great heartburn for many. Apparently the large > majority of voters either: totally stay away from Jive (and > therefore don't care much what does/doesn't happen to it), or > they use it and they're (at least) OK with it. I think that people that are regulars on the lists will subscribe and be completely oblivious to Jive. Those that are potential "joiners" of the community are likely to first encounter Jive. Since all of the people that can vote are regulars in at least one community, it is quite likely that even if Jive was a their first view of OpenSolaris discussions, it has been long forgotten. >From an approachability standpoint, this begs the following questions: 1) Are the primary goals at this time to make life easier for those that have already committed, or for those that are potential community members? 2) Does the poll reach the right group to achieve 1? My personal take is that getting all of the pieces in place to make supporting a larger and more diverse community are important before trying to make life easier for the newbies and drive-bys. That is, the dependence on tools that are only available to Sun employees is likely to discourage people that are interested in deeper involvement with OpenSolaris for the Open part rather than the Solaris part. Mike -- Mike Gerdts http://mgerdts.blogspot.com/ From rich.teer at rite-group.com Wed Mar 14 19:55:38 2007 From: rich.teer at rite-group.com (Rich Teer) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2007, Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: > Same; I never use Jive. Same here. As far as I'm concerned, jive is an olde program from years gone by. To wit: rich at marrakesh4765# ./jive < x Same here. What it is, Mama! As far as I'm concerned, JIBE be an olde honky code fum years gone by. Slap mah fro! To wit, dig dis: Ah, dose wuz de days. Right On! Ahem, I mean "those were the days!". :-) -- Rich Teer, SCSA, SCNA, SCSECA, OpenSolaris CAB member CEO, My Online Home Inventory Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URLs: http://www.rite-group.com/rich http://www.myonlinehomeinventory.com From flash at systemnews.com Wed Mar 14 20:44:08 2007 From: flash at systemnews.com (John J. McLaughlin) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 23:44:08 -0400 Subject: [cab-discuss] Bio for johnj Message-ID: <45F8C108.3050102@systemnews.com> I have posted a new bio to my blog: http://johnjmclaughlin.blogspot.com -johnj -- John J. McLaughlin, Editor-in-Chief/CTO, System News Inc. Publishers of "SunFlash", "System News for Sun Users" and "System News for Sun Partners" http://sun.systemnews.com flash at systemnews.com (954) 234 8990 Blog: http://johnjmclaughlin.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/johnjmclaughlin From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Mar 14 20:52:05 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 22:52:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: <45F85DD8.1050101@ianshome.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <62330.72.39.216.186.1173904559.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F85DD8.1050101@ianshome.com> Message-ID: Just to provide some more context, here's some Jive usage date [1] for some typical mailing lists for last month. (View with a mono-space font.) --Eric February 2007 ------------- list (*-discuss) Jive Posters Jive Msgs Total Msgs ------------------------------------------------- smf 13 21 171 networking 17 28 205 code 25 39 394 Here's the pipline I used to come up with this. Run it on an mbox of mailing-list messages. (You'll need the formail tool from the procmail package): cat | formail -s formail -c -X Message-ID -X From: | perl -ne 'chomp if /^F/;print' | grep 'JavaMail.Twebapp at oss-app1' | sort From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Mar 14 21:00:05 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 23:00:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <62330.72.39.216.186.1173904559.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F85DD8.1050101@ianshome.com> Message-ID: > > list (*-discuss) Jive Posters Jive Msgs Total Msgs > ------------------------------------------------- > smf 13 21 171 > networking 17 28 205 > code 25 39 394 Sorry, that last one was the opensolaris-code list. From ian at ianshome.com Wed Mar 14 21:11:48 2007 From: ian at ianshome.com (Ian Collins) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 17:11:48 +1300 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <62330.72.39.216.186.1173904559.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F85DD8.1050101@ianshome.com> Message-ID: <45F8C784.7080603@ianshome.com> Eric Boutilier wrote: > Just to provide some more context, here's some Jive usage > date [1] for some typical mailing lists for last month. (View > with a mono-space font.) > > --Eric > > February 2007 > ------------- > > list (*-discuss) Jive Posters Jive Msgs Total Msgs > ------------------------------------------------- > smf 13 21 171 > networking 17 28 205 > code 25 39 394 > > > Here's the pipline I used to come up with this. Run it on an mbox of > mailing-list messages. (You'll need the formail tool from the procmail > package): > > cat | formail -s formail -c -X Message-ID -X From: | perl > -ne 'chomp if /^F/;print' | grep 'JavaMail.Twebapp at oss-app1' | sort So only a very small percentage of messages come in through Jive, no wonder it was a low priority. The figures for the help or main discuss lists would be a better indicator of "first contact" postings. Ian From mgerdts at gmail.com Thu Mar 15 06:11:43 2007 From: mgerdts at gmail.com (Mike Gerdts) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 08:11:43 -0500 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Al's questions (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> Message-ID: <65f8f3ad0703150611g1a023e28s96c8f78b59fc82b@mail.gmail.com> On 3/12/07, Eric Boutilier wrote: > I'm not a candidate, but wanted to reply to these questions anyway... > > On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Al Hopper wrote: > > > > b) how agressive should the OGB be, in respect to ensuring that the > > current core contributors participate/vote in the OGB election? > > Send them individual mails this time, but just this once. _Clearly_ it's an > oxymoron to consider an individual who does not take the time/effort to > track community announcements a Core Contributor. (Note, do not generalize > this sentiment to the act of casting a vote however. If someone chooses to > not vote (e.g. abstain), which is in itself a form of a vote, this should > not taint their status as a Core Contributor.) The OpenSolaris community is not just one community, just like any sizable city is not just one community. I can very easily see how a person that is very active in some areas (sub-communities) can completely miss larger community events. There is no requirement (or even suggestion, that I am aware of) that a core contributor subscribe to opensolaris-announce or cab-discuss. Maybe this is something that belongs in the "Congratulations - your peers have selected you to be core contributor" message that people should receive. Something is broken with the current method that core contributors are made aware of their status. I only found out that I am a core contributor due to a nag mail to vote. I appreciated that nag mail because it made me realize that I could do something about the priority list that I had seen floating around in the previous days. This should not, however, be the way that people find out that they have been recognized by their peers. Mike -- Mike Gerdts http://mgerdts.blogspot.com/ From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Thu Mar 15 07:52:54 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:52:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Al's questions (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: <65f8f3ad0703150611g1a023e28s96c8f78b59fc82b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> <65f8f3ad0703150611g1a023e28s96c8f78b59fc82b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2007, Mike Gerdts wrote: > On 3/12/07, Eric Boutilier wrote: >> I'm not a candidate, but wanted to reply to these questions anyway... >> >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Al Hopper wrote: >> > >> > b) how agressive should the OGB be, in respect to ensuring that the >> > current core contributors participate/vote in the OGB election? >> >> Send them individual mails this time, but just this once. _Clearly_ it's an >> oxymoron to consider an individual who does not take the time/effort to >> track community announcements a Core Contributor. (Note, do not generalize >> this sentiment to the act of casting a vote however. If someone chooses to >> not vote (e.g. abstain), which is in itself a form of a vote, this should >> not taint their status as a Core Contributor.) > > The OpenSolaris community is not just one community, just like any > sizable city is not just one community. I can very easily see how a > person that is very active in some areas (sub-communities) can > completely miss larger community events. There is no requirement (or > even suggestion, that I am aware of) that a core contributor subscribe > to opensolaris-announce or cab-discuss. Maybe this is something that > belongs in the "Congratulations - your peers have selected you to be > core contributor" message that people should receive. > > Something is broken with the current method that core contributors are > made aware of their status. I only found out that I am a core > contributor due to a nag mail to vote. I appreciated that nag mail > because it made me realize that I could do something about the > priority list that I had seen floating around in the previous days. > This should not, however, be the way that people find out that they > have been recognized by their peers. Sounds like we're in agreement. Maybe what's needed is a separate announcement channel for core contributor matters, and make sure it's well moderated. Eric From sch at sun.com Thu Mar 15 08:00:12 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 08:00:12 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Al's questions (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> <65f8f3ad0703150611g1a023e28s96c8f78b59fc82b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070315150012.GE7080@sun.com> * Eric Boutilier [2007-03-15 07:52]: > * Mike Gerdts : > >Something is broken with the current method that core contributors are > >made aware of their status. I only found out that I am a core > >contributor due to a nag mail to vote. I appreciated that nag mail > >because it made me realize that I could do something about the > >priority list that I had seen floating around in the previous days. > >This should not, however, be the way that people find out that they > >have been recognized by their peers. Sure, and it won't be from now on. But we're creating the tools to support the initial grants as we go--this phase is the bootstrap. At what point do you believe such notification should be sent? At time of grant (automatable) or at time of consideration by a Community Group (human responsibility)? > Sounds like we're in agreement. Maybe what's needed is a > separate announcement channel for core contributor matters, > and make sure it's well moderated. Seems like a reasonable use of the contributors alias? - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Thu Mar 15 08:45:50 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:45:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Al's questions (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: <20070315150012.GE7080@sun.com> References: <20070311190247.GA3673@sun.com> <45F47F89.6000607@sun.com> <20070311222617.GB3890@sun.com> <20070311232758.GA4186@sun.com> <5892CC74-2EBA-492D-8262-FE926763C15C@sun.com> <20070311234747.GA4214@sun.com> <65f8f3ad0703150611g1a023e28s96c8f78b59fc82b@mail.gmail.com> <20070315150012.GE7080@sun.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2007, Stephen Hahn wrote: > > Seems like a reasonable use of the contributors alias? Whoops, sorry, I forgot there is now a contributors alias. From webmink at gmail.com Thu Mar 15 13:40:00 2007 From: webmink at gmail.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:40:00 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: In-Reply-To: <45f9abad.Hrhs3JcGqUbme1pU%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <21C33165-6403-4F62-AD3E-3EE4E8B5010B@gmail.com> <45f9abad.Hrhs3JcGqUbme1pU%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <47DFD37C-71C3-49BB-8CA7-64B4373A999D@gmail.com> On Mar 15, 2007, at 20:25, Joerg Schilling wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: > >> To all OGB Candidates: >> >> I'd like to record an interview with each of you and podcast it from >> my blog during the next week. We would talk via Skype and I would >> record the conversation and podcast it unedited (well, with a jingle >> at the front and end and an intro, and maybe with phone clicks and >> beeps smoothed out, but without changing the content). >> >> Interested? Let me know. > > Why don't I get a response? > > Are you not interested to interview all candidates? > > BTW: I do not have skype so you would need to call via a standard > phone > connection. If you have another system that work on Solaris you are > of course > also welcome ;-) I just sent you one. I had to go to Brussels (I just got back) and the internet connectivity turned out to be ~ 0. Sometimes the day-job gets in the way of the fun... S. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2440 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Thu Mar 15 13:25:17 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:25:17 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <21C33165-6403-4F62-AD3E-3EE4E8B5010B@gmail.com> References: <21C33165-6403-4F62-AD3E-3EE4E8B5010B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45f9abad.Hrhs3JcGqUbme1pU%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Simon Phipps wrote: > To all OGB Candidates: > > I'd like to record an interview with each of you and podcast it from > my blog during the next week. We would talk via Skype and I would > record the conversation and podcast it unedited (well, with a jingle > at the front and end and an intro, and maybe with phone clicks and > beeps smoothed out, but without changing the content). > > Interested? Let me know. Why don't I get a response? Are you not interested to interview all candidates? BTW: I do not have skype so you would need to call via a standard phone connection. If you have another system that work on Solaris you are of course also welcome ;-) J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Thu Mar 15 13:56:44 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:56:44 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: In-Reply-To: <47DFD37C-71C3-49BB-8CA7-64B4373A999D@gmail.com> References: <21C33165-6403-4F62-AD3E-3EE4E8B5010B@gmail.com> <45f9abad.Hrhs3JcGqUbme1pU%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <47DFD37C-71C3-49BB-8CA7-64B4373A999D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45f9b30c.mhGqGkqRwh4TRNg/%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Simon Phipps wrote: > I just sent you one. I had to go to Brussels (I just got back) and > the internet connectivity turned out to be ~ 0. Sometimes the day-job > gets in the way of the fun... OK, I understand. J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Thu Mar 15 17:38:18 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 17:38:18 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <62330.72.39.216.186.1173904559.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F85DD8.1050101@ianshome.com> Message-ID: <45F9E6FA.4080508@sun.com> Given the mail that's just come in on request-sponsors and a couple other lists, the more interesting question (though harder to grep for) is what percentage of those few Jive messages are spam, since Jive bypasses the "must be subscribed to mailing list" check to filter the spam. -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering Eric Boutilier wrote: > Just to provide some more context, here's some Jive usage > date [1] for some typical mailing lists for last month. (View > with a mono-space font.) > > --Eric > > February 2007 > ------------- > > list (*-discuss) Jive Posters Jive Msgs Total Msgs > ------------------------------------------------- > smf 13 21 171 > networking 17 28 205 > code 25 39 394 > > > Here's the pipline I used to come up with this. Run it on an mbox of > mailing-list messages. (You'll need the formail tool from the procmail > package): > > cat | formail -s formail -c -X Message-ID -X From: | perl > -ne 'chomp if /^F/;print' | grep 'JavaMail.Twebapp at oss-app1' | sort > _______________________________________________ > cab-discuss mailing list > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Thu Mar 15 18:05:21 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:05:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: <45F9E6FA.4080508@sun.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <62330.72.39.216.186.1173904559.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F85DD8.1050101@ianshome.com> <45F9E6FA.4080508@sun.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2007, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > ... > what percentage of those few Jive messages are spam... I'm pretty sure it was very few or none. Eric From John.Plocher at Sun.COM Mon Mar 12 21:35:44 2007 From: John.Plocher at Sun.COM (John Plocher) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:05:44 +0530 Subject: [cab-discuss] Interesting twist: abstentions In-Reply-To: <20070313042311.GD12615@sun.com> References: <20070313042311.GD12615@sun.com> Message-ID: <45F62A20.20100@Sun.Com> According to Roberts Rules of Order, abstains count towards quorum, but do not affect the vote counts of any item on the ballot. -John Stephen Hahn wrote: > I have a new occurrence: a Core Contributor who has made many > contributions--in advocacy, technical efforts, and explanations--but > sincerely wishes to abstain from the election and ratification. The > voting system actually allows questions to be skipped (although none > of the polls so far has included a question with skippable set), but > I'm very interested in understanding what people think about the > expressed position, how we might determine when an expression of > abstention is allowed, and how we would interpret an abstention with > the affirmative majority. > > - Stephen > From John.Plocher at Sun.COM Mon Mar 12 21:28:21 2007 From: John.Plocher at Sun.COM (John Plocher) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 09:58:21 +0530 Subject: [cab-discuss] core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) In-Reply-To: References: <2848.1173738531@athyra> <62A4FEDF-493B-489A-ACAC-85D3F393F3E9@gbiv.com> Message-ID: <45F62865.7090004@Sun.Com> >> If the constitution fails to be ratified by the community, then the >> OGB still has all the powers delegated to it by Sun, and may choose to >> do the work itself or resign in favor of a new board (also appointed >> by Sun) in order to continue work on reaching ratification. Unless there is a NEW OGB elected, in which case, there is no need for Sun to appoint anyone.... >> The constitution only needs to be changed if a significant number >> of members vote "no", or if an amendment is proposed and passed >> along with a subsequent vote on ratification. Since there does not seem to be any way now for members to suggest amendments, much less get them on the ballot, this seems moot... -John From mike.kupfer at sun.com Fri Mar 16 14:18:15 2007 From: mike.kupfer at sun.com (Mike Kupfer) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:18:15 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Priorities results In-Reply-To: Message from Keith M Wesolowski of "Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:29:52 PDT." <20070314202952.GB578282@sun.com> Message-ID: <16529.1174079895@athyra> >>>>> "Keith" == Keith M Wesolowski writes: Glynn> - Also vaguely indicates that no on seems keen to actually Glynn> step up to the plate and be part of a wider infrastructure team to Glynn> work on this stuff Keith> That conclusion is valid only if one assumes that the Tonic team Keith> is responsible for delivering the goods. It isn't. Well, yes and no. The Tonic team currently owns the webapp, the Jive/Mailman gateway glue, etc. It's true that we don't own any of the bug-related software. mike From michelle.olson at sun.com Fri Mar 16 15:53:33 2007 From: michelle.olson at sun.com (Michelle Olson) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:53:33 PDT Subject: [cab-discuss] bio/position for Michelle Message-ID: <16003590.1174085643870.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Hi, I've posted a bio/position blog here: http://blogs.sun.com/missmichelle/entry/bio_position_for_ogb_nomination Thanks, Michelle This message posted from opensolaris.org From stevel at sun.com Fri Mar 16 21:38:15 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:38:15 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] bio and positiony-ish blog post Message-ID: <20070317043815.GC472395@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> here's mine that i posted earlier this week... http://whacked.net/2007/03/12/why-you-should-vote-for-me/ cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From akira.ohsone at sun.com Tue Mar 20 02:34:35 2007 From: akira.ohsone at sun.com (Akira Ohsone - TSC) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:34:35 +0900 Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama Message-ID: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> Dear OGB, I'm Akira Ohsone from Japan. I'm managing Software organization in Japan, and number of times involved with internationalization and localization of Software products namely Solaris (from SunOS 4.0). Recently, Jim and I became aware that the OGB inquired about the possibility of granting Core Contributor status to Masayuki Murayama (OpenSolaris ID: mrym). We would like to put his name forward for this purpose. Murayama-san being known in Solaris (and then OpenSolaris) community for long time as author of drivers for popular NICs in market today. As you can see in his own web page, he maintained those drivers in regularly and consistent manner for long time. http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/ As of today, he may appear little quiet in OpenSolaris community (not much post from him, just a relative term), however his contribution to community should be recognized by OGB and whole community. And we think giving him "Core Contributor" status would be a good start. Thanks kindly for your consideration to this matter. And looking forward for your reply. Best Regards, Akira From James.McPherson at Sun.COM Tue Mar 20 02:40:35 2007 From: James.McPherson at Sun.COM (James C. McPherson) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:40:35 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama In-Reply-To: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> References: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> Message-ID: <45FFAC13.6020108@Sun.COM> Akira Ohsone - TSC wrote: > Dear OGB, > > I'm Akira Ohsone from Japan. I'm managing Software organization in > Japan, and number of times involved with internationalization and > localization of Software products namely Solaris (from SunOS 4.0). > > Recently, Jim and I became aware that the OGB inquired about the > possibility of granting Core Contributor status to Masayuki Murayama > (OpenSolaris ID: mrym). We would like to put his name forward for this > purpose. > > Murayama-san being known in Solaris (and then OpenSolaris) community for > long time as author of drivers for popular NICs in market today. As you > can see in his own web page, he maintained those drivers in regularly > and consistent manner for long time. > > http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/ > > As of today, he may appear little quiet in OpenSolaris community (not > much post from him, just a relative term), however his contribution to > community should be recognized by OGB and whole community. And we think > giving him "Core Contributor" status would be a good start. Hello Akira, I wholeheartedly second your proposal to the OGB. I have depended upon his drivers for many years and rank him highly. best regards, James C. McPherson -- Solaris kernel software engineer Sun Microsystems From binarycrusader at gmail.com Tue Mar 20 05:00:19 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 07:00:19 -0500 Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama In-Reply-To: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> References: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> Message-ID: On 20/03/07, Akira Ohsone - TSC wrote: > Dear OGB, > > I'm Akira Ohsone from Japan. I'm managing Software organization in > Japan, and number of times involved with internationalization and > localization of Software products namely Solaris (from SunOS 4.0). > > Recently, Jim and I became aware that the OGB inquired about the > possibility of granting Core Contributor status to Masayuki Murayama > (OpenSolaris ID: mrym). We would like to put his name forward for this > purpose. +1, I second this candidate. Murayama's contributions to the Solaris community are of nearly immeasurable value. He has consistently shown a fervent commitment to the community and I personally have depended upon his drivers for the last few years. It would be great to see him recognised for his contributions. -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From webmink at sun.com Tue Mar 20 06:14:31 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:14:31 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama In-Reply-To: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> References: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> Message-ID: On Mar 20, 2007, at 09:34, Akira Ohsone - TSC wrote: > Dear OGB, > > I'm Akira Ohsone from Japan. I'm managing Software organization in > Japan, and number of times involved with internationalization and > localization of Software products namely Solaris (from SunOS 4.0). > > Recently, Jim and I became aware that the OGB inquired about the > possibility of granting Core Contributor status to Masayuki Murayama > (OpenSolaris ID: mrym). We would like to put his name forward for this > purpose. > > Murayama-san being known in Solaris (and then OpenSolaris) > community for > long time as author of drivers for popular NICs in market today. As > you > can see in his own web page, he maintained those drivers in regularly > and consistent manner for long time. > > http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/ > > As of today, he may appear little quiet in OpenSolaris community (not > much post from him, just a relative term), however his contribution to > community should be recognized by OGB and whole community. And we > think > giving him "Core Contributor" status would be a good start. > > Thanks kindly for your consideration to this matter. And looking > forward > for your reply. I have discussed this with a few people and I would support this status grant. S. From al at logical-approach.com Tue Mar 20 06:40:09 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:40:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama In-Reply-To: References: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Mar 20, 2007, at 09:34, Akira Ohsone - TSC wrote: > > > Dear OGB, > > > > I'm Akira Ohsone from Japan. I'm managing Software organization in > > Japan, and number of times involved with internationalization and > > localization of Software products namely Solaris (from SunOS 4.0). > > > > Recently, Jim and I became aware that the OGB inquired about the > > possibility of granting Core Contributor status to Masayuki Murayama > > (OpenSolaris ID: mrym). We would like to put his name forward for this > > purpose. > > > > Murayama-san being known in Solaris (and then OpenSolaris) > > community for > > long time as author of drivers for popular NICs in market today. As > > you > > can see in his own web page, he maintained those drivers in regularly > > and consistent manner for long time. > > > > http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/ > > > > As of today, he may appear little quiet in OpenSolaris community (not > > much post from him, just a relative term), however his contribution to > > community should be recognized by OGB and whole community. And we > > think > > giving him "Core Contributor" status would be a good start. > > > > Thanks kindly for your consideration to this matter. And looking > > forward > > for your reply. > > I have discussed this with a few people and I would support this > status grant. +1 Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From keith.wesolowski at sun.com Tue Mar 20 08:35:27 2007 From: keith.wesolowski at sun.com (Keith M Wesolowski) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:35:27 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama In-Reply-To: References: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070320153527.GA859175@sun.com> On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 01:14:31PM +0000, Simon Phipps wrote: > I have discussed this with a few people and I would support this > status grant. While I agree completely, I'd think it would make sense to have one or more of the leaders of the Device Drivers community first explain why they have not made this grant themselves. If they simply overlooked these contributions, perhaps they should make the grant at this time. Though I have concerns about the viability of a Device Driver community that could have overlooked this individual. -- Keith M Wesolowski "Sir, we're surrounded!" FishWorks "Excellent; we can attack in any direction!" From webmink at sun.com Tue Mar 20 11:39:57 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:39:57 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama In-Reply-To: <20070320153527.GA859175@sun.com> References: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> <20070320153527.GA859175@sun.com> Message-ID: On Mar 20, 2007, at 15:35, Keith M Wesolowski wrote: > On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 01:14:31PM +0000, Simon Phipps wrote: > >> I have discussed this with a few people and I would support this >> status grant. > > While I agree completely, I'd think it would make sense to have one or > more of the leaders of the Device Drivers community first explain why > they have not made this grant themselves. If they simply overlooked > these contributions, perhaps they should make the grant at this time. > Though I have concerns about the viability of a Device Driver > community that could have overlooked this individual. I'd agree with that if we were not down to the last 5 days of voting. As it is, I feel there is a situation that needs patching and I'm hoping we'll get one more +1 here. S. From Casper.Dik at sun.com Tue Mar 20 11:41:09 2007 From: Casper.Dik at sun.com (Casper.Dik at sun.com) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:41:09 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama In-Reply-To: References: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> <20070320153527.GA859175@sun.com> Message-ID: <200703201841.l2KIffq3016245@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> > >On Mar 20, 2007, at 15:35, Keith M Wesolowski wrote: > >> On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 01:14:31PM +0000, Simon Phipps wrote: >> >>> I have discussed this with a few people and I would support this >>> status grant. >> >> While I agree completely, I'd think it would make sense to have one or >> more of the leaders of the Device Drivers community first explain why >> they have not made this grant themselves. If they simply overlooked >> these contributions, perhaps they should make the grant at this time. >> Though I have concerns about the viability of a Device Driver >> community that could have overlooked this individual. > >I'd agree with that if we were not down to the last 5 days of voting. >As it is, I feel there is a situation that needs patching and I'm >hoping we'll get one more +1 here. +1 from me too; post mortem for after the election :-0 Casper From sch at sun.com Tue Mar 20 11:52:44 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:52:44 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama In-Reply-To: <200703201841.l2KIffq3016245@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> References: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> <20070320153527.GA859175@sun.com> <200703201841.l2KIffq3016245@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: <20070320185243.GA8129@sun.com> * Casper.Dik at sun.com [2007-03-20 11:41]: > > > > >On Mar 20, 2007, at 15:35, Keith M Wesolowski wrote: > > > >> On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 01:14:31PM +0000, Simon Phipps wrote: > >> > >>> I have discussed this with a few people and I would support this > >>> status grant. > >> > >> While I agree completely, I'd think it would make sense to have one or > >> more of the leaders of the Device Drivers community first explain why > >> they have not made this grant themselves. If they simply overlooked > >> these contributions, perhaps they should make the grant at this time. > >> Though I have concerns about the viability of a Device Driver > >> community that could have overlooked this individual. > > > >I'd agree with that if we were not down to the last 5 days of voting. > >As it is, I feel there is a situation that needs patching and I'm > >hoping we'll get one more +1 here. > > +1 from me too; post mortem for after the election :-0 Based on 3 yes votes by Board Members, I have added an "At Large" Core Contributor grant for Masayuki Murayama. (The system currently registers these as grants by the "cab" Community Group.) - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems stephen.hahn at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From rich.teer at rite-group.com Tue Mar 20 14:49:01 2007 From: rich.teer at rite-group.com (Rich Teer) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama In-Reply-To: <200703201841.l2KIffq3016245@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> References: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> <20070320153527.GA859175@sun.com> <200703201841.l2KIffq3016245@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Casper.Dik at sun.com wrote: > +1 from me too; post mortem for after the election :-0 +1 -- Rich Teer, SCSA, SCNA, SCSECA, OpenSolaris CAB member CEO, My Online Home Inventory Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URLs: http://www.rite-group.com/rich http://www.myonlinehomeinventory.com From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Tue Mar 20 15:14:54 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:14:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Mailing list naming and usage consistency Message-ID: Where do you all think we're headed WRT to project mailing-list structure? New projects are coming on-line weekly, but the official plan to reorginize the Community/Project structure is probably still a ways off. So in the interim, I/we need to be providing informed guidance in an effort to minimize hassles (e.g. re-naming lists) and inconsistencies in the future structure. Here's my shot at what where I think we're headed... Large projects: *-discuss: General discussion, public read/write *-dev: Core project contributor list; public read/write; or optionally, public read and restricted write *-notify: Putback (commit) notifications if applicable; public read/write Small-Med projects: Same as above except maybe no *-discuss. Instead hold general discussions on a broader (e.g. parent community) list. In general, design reviews go to *-discuss and code reviews go to *-dev... Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Tue Mar 20 15:37:06 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:37:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Mailing list naming and usage consistency In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > *-notify: Putback (commit) notifications if applicable; > public read/write Correction, that should be public read, write-access restricted to commits. From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Tue Mar 20 17:19:01 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:19:01 -0700 Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama In-Reply-To: <20070320153527.GA859175@sun.com> References: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> <20070320153527.GA859175@sun.com> Message-ID: <460079F5.2070805@sun.com> Keith M Wesolowski wrote: > On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 01:14:31PM +0000, Simon Phipps wrote: > >> I have discussed this with a few people and I would support this >> status grant. > > While I agree completely, I'd think it would make sense to have one or > more of the leaders of the Device Drivers community first explain why > they have not made this grant themselves. If they simply overlooked > these contributions, perhaps they should make the grant at this time. > Though I have concerns about the viability of a Device Driver > community that could have overlooked this individual. His address is included in the list of community leaders that Stephen mailed to ask for conributors - from the list of grants on poll.opensolaris.org it appears that neither he nor any of the other "leaders" of the driver community named any contributors to represent their community in the elections. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From webmink at sun.com Thu Mar 22 05:44:35 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:44:35 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Candidate Interviews Completed. Message-ID: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> I've now interviewed all of the OGB Election candidates who have responded to my offer to do so. I have posted the interviews on my blog - I just published a list of them[1]. I know several people wanted to wait until my series was complete before voting, so this is by way of a signal that it's time to vote! I just did. Regards Simon [1] http://blogs.sun.com/webmink/entry/ogb_interviews_summary From james.d.carlson at sun.com Thu Mar 22 06:03:01 2007 From: james.d.carlson at sun.com (James Carlson) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:03:01 -0400 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> Message-ID: <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Simon Phipps writes: > I've now interviewed all of the OGB Election candidates who have > responded to my offer to do so. I have posted the interviews on my > blog - I just published a list of them[1]. I know several people > wanted to wait until my series was complete before voting, so this is > by way of a signal that it's time to vote! I just did. I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/#electioncalendar -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 From James.McPherson at Sun.COM Thu Mar 22 06:08:33 2007 From: James.McPherson at Sun.COM (James C. McPherson) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:08:33 +1100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <46027FD1.5050706@Sun.COM> James Carlson wrote: > Simon Phipps writes: >> I've now interviewed all of the OGB Election candidates who have >> responded to my offer to do so. I have posted the interviews on my >> blog - I just published a list of them[1]. I know several people >> wanted to wait until my series was complete before voting, so this is >> by way of a signal that it's time to vote! I just did. > > I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a > week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? Damn, I knew I forgot something .... Pretty sure I managed at least one vote though! otoh, Simon did publish the interviews as fast as he could given his and candidate constraints. cheers, James C. McPherson -- Solaris kernel software engineer Sun Microsystems From Casper.Dik at Sun.COM Thu Mar 22 06:12:34 2007 From: Casper.Dik at Sun.COM (Casper.Dik at Sun.COM) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:12:34 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: <46027FD1.5050706@Sun.COM> References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <46027FD1.5050706@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <200703221313.l2MDDC6n028073@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> I wasn't available for Skype because of a sore throat; I'm happy to be interviewed now but am not always availalble on Skype. Casper From dclarke at blastwave.org Thu Mar 22 06:25:19 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <34116.72.39.216.186.1174569919.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > Simon Phipps writes: >> I've now interviewed all of the OGB Election candidates who have >> responded to my offer to do so. I have posted the interviews on my >> blog - I just published a list of them[1]. I know several people >> wanted to wait until my series was complete before voting, so this is >> by way of a signal that it's time to vote! I just did. > > I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a > week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/#electioncalendar > * * * Campaigning Closes Sun Mar 11th (24:00 hrs) * * * I know that I am a little confused and I am running for the OGB. Yet another of those things that bugs me about so many cooks in the kitchen and a real clear recipe with everyone throwing pepper in. Dennis Clarke From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Thu Mar 22 06:39:49 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:39:49 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <46028725.+w7MtsWs49Bc79I2%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> James Carlson wrote: > Simon Phipps writes: > > I've now interviewed all of the OGB Election candidates who have > > responded to my offer to do so. I have posted the interviews on my > > blog - I just published a list of them[1]. I know several people > > wanted to wait until my series was complete before voting, so this is > > by way of a signal that it's time to vote! I just did. > > I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a > week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? My interview has been done last Thursday. BTW: I am back from CeBIT and open for questions.... J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From dclarke at blastwave.org Thu Mar 22 06:44:33 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 09:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Election Voting Opens Mon Mar 12th (00:00 hrs) Message-ID: <34130.72.39.216.186.1174571073.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> For the sake of clarity : Election Voting Opens Mon Mar 12th (00:00 hrs) Election Voting Closes Mon Mar 26th (24:00 hrs) Which is why I had cast my votes on Monday the 12th of March because the actual character of a person is far more important to me than anything they may say here or there or post in some response. I already have a good feel for who is running and who they are over the years that I have known them. I vote based on the person, their history and their true character in as much as I can fathom over the years. My reasons for not participating in the interview process are my own. I would have enjoyed a debate but I think that the debate process would have required too many rounds with too many judges and too much infrastructure to be practical. Having said all that .. I have one last thing to say and it will be my last word on matters before the voting process closes. I have been involved with the Solaris Community for quite some time. Over the past decade I have spoken with, worked with, played and argued with some really brilliant and vibrant personalities. People that either really *knew* what they were talking about or had a gift for helping other people. On rare occasion I was able to talk with people that could do both at the same time. Often times that is what "community" really means. The gathering together of our collective knowledge and personalities such that we may work together, play together and help each other. I am overwhelmed by the number of times that I have worked well through the night on some problem and had a number of people "right there" watching and helping and getting involved. Last night was a great example for those that helped and you know who you are. :-) There have been times when I have stayed on the phone/keyboard/whatever all night helping someone else. This is what *we* do. Some of us are getting paid to do these things and some are in there with their guts and hearts and nothing else. There are a number of us here that have been around as long as I can recall. I know that the internet puts us all at a distance while also bringing us together. Its a whole new world of relationships that work within a dynamic we are still only beginning to really understand as the social creatures that we are. Sometimes just watching green letters pop up on an xterm are all that we know of each other. Sometimes we live next door or around the corner. Have I ever met you? What do we mean by "meet" in this new world? In this new paradign for human relationships we are often misunderstood because we are social creatures and not really "built" for such disconnected relations. Somehow we have to keep working forwards while our technology finds ways to bring us together. I think that is what I am doing .. working to bring us, the community, forwards. Dennis Clarke From webmink at sun.com Thu Mar 22 06:58:23 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:58:23 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Mar 22, 2007, at 13:03, James Carlson wrote: > Simon Phipps writes: >> I've now interviewed all of the OGB Election candidates who have >> responded to my offer to do so. I have posted the interviews on my >> blog - I just published a list of them[1]. I know several people >> wanted to wait until my series was complete before voting, so this is >> by way of a signal that it's time to vote! I just did. > > I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a > week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ > #electioncalendar I'm not campaigning. Nice excuse though. S. From Frank.Vanderlinden at Sun.COM Thu Mar 22 07:31:22 2007 From: Frank.Vanderlinden at Sun.COM (Frank Van Der Linden) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:31:22 +0100 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <4602933A.20608@Sun.COM> Simon Phipps wrote: > James Carlson wrote: >> >> I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a >> week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? >> >> >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/#electioncalendar >> > > I'm not campaigning. Nice excuse though. I assume that James refers to being interviewed as campaigning. The problem here is, what is the definition of "campaigning"? - Frank From webmink at sun.com Thu Mar 22 07:37:52 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:37:52 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: <4602933A.20608@Sun.COM> References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4602933A.20608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Mar 22, 2007, at 14:31, Frank Van Der Linden wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: >> James Carlson wrote: >>> >>> I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a >>> week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? >>> >>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/ >>> #electioncalendar >> >> I'm not campaigning. Nice excuse though. > > I assume that James refers to being interviewed as campaigning. The > problem here is, what is the definition of "campaigning"? I've always assumed that campaigning involves running a campaign. Since I, a non-candidate, publicly initiated all of these interviews, it's not clear how that can constitute a 'campaign', although I would have respected and acknowledged anyone replying to my invitation with that point (no-one did). But whatever the definition, no-one has brought up the subject until now, despite the activity being very public, including my fellow OGB members. S. From al at logical-approach.com Thu Mar 22 08:39:09 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:39:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: <4602933A.20608@Sun.COM> References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4602933A.20608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Frank Van Der Linden wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: > > James Carlson wrote: > >> > >> I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a > >> week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? > >> > >> > >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/#electioncalendar > >> > > > > I'm not campaigning. Nice excuse though. > > I assume that James refers to being interviewed as campaigning. The > problem here is, what is the definition of "campaigning"? And that question has already been answered on cab-discuss at: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/message.jspa?messageID=96930#97130 Quoting myself: Here's a definition of campaigning from dictionary.com that might be useful: ""An operation or series of operations energetically pursued to accomplish a purpose: an advertising campaign for a new product; a candidate's political campaign."" Please read the entire thread. Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From sommerfeld at sun.com Thu Mar 22 08:43:06 2007 From: sommerfeld at sun.com (Bill Sommerfeld) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:43:06 -0400 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: <45F8C784.7080603@ianshome.com> References: <20070314185606.GA1476@sun.com> <45F854A6.1020903@sun.com> <200703142004.l2EK4QU3029621@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <62330.72.39.216.186.1173904559.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <45F85DD8.1050101@ianshome.com> <45F8C784.7080603@ianshome.com> Message-ID: <1174578186.7927.54.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 17:11 +1300, Ian Collins wrote: > So only a very small percentage of messages come in through Jive, no > wonder it was a low priority. The figures for the help or main discuss > lists would be a better indicator of "first contact" postings. I suspect I was one of the few people to make "kill/replace Jive" my #1 priority. we don't need barriers to communication, and I see the mismatch between email and forum conventions is particularly problematic. Most critically, replies originating via email generally have at least some quoted context, while jive-origin posts generally do not, making it harder to follow the thread. that makes experienced mail-side folk less likely to reply to jive-origin questions. I also see periodic complaints on the FreeNode #opensolaris IRC channel about delays between when email goes through and when it appears on the forum. I believe we'd be much better served by replacing the read/write forums with low delay, reliable read-only list archives. - Bill From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Thu Mar 22 08:46:53 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 10:46:53 -0500 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4602933A.20608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4602A4ED.7080202@sun.com> Thank you Simon for taking time out of your schedule to do all of these interviews. I personally find them useful. These probably took you considerable time. Thank you also to the candidates who took the time to be interviewed. I think "we" forgot to say that part. Sara Al Hopper wrote: > On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Frank Van Der Linden wrote: > > >> Simon Phipps wrote: >> >>> James Carlson wrote: >>> >>>> I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a >>>> week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/#electioncalendar >>>> >>>> >>> I'm not campaigning. Nice excuse though. >>> >> I assume that James refers to being interviewed as campaigning. The >> problem here is, what is the definition of "campaigning"? >> > > And that question has already been answered on cab-discuss at: > > http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/message.jspa?messageID=96930#97130 > > Quoting myself: > > Here's a definition of campaigning from dictionary.com that might be > useful: > > ""An operation or series of operations energetically pursued to accomplish > a purpose: an advertising campaign for a new product; a candidate's > political campaign."" > > Please read the entire thread. > > Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com > Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT > OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 > OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 > _______________________________________________ > Contributors mailing list > Contributors at opensolaris.org > http://opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/contributors > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sommerfeld at sun.com Thu Mar 22 10:55:25 2007 From: sommerfeld at sun.com (Bill Sommerfeld) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:55:25 -0400 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: <4602933A.20608@Sun.COM> References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4602933A.20608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <1174586125.27921.4.camel@thunk> On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 15:31 +0100, Frank Van Der Linden wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: > > James Carlson wrote: > >> > >> I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a > >> week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? > >> > >> > >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/#electioncalendar > >> > > > > I'm not campaigning. Nice excuse though. > > I assume that James refers to being interviewed as campaigning. The > problem here is, what is the definition of "campaigning"? When the election schedule was discussed, I objected to including an "official end of campaigning" specifically because I thought it would provoke distracting and pointless meta-arguments about whether or not a particular activity constitutes "campaigning". my prediction appears to have come true. - Bill From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Thu Mar 22 11:48:57 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:48:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Overview (rollup) of recent activity on cab-discuss Message-ID: Special note: Here's a question I get a lot: Q: Why did you miss (or miss us) last time? A: This is a misconception that stems from the variability of the forums I cover each (semi-monthly) period. The set is not static; rather, it's based primarily on traffic volume. To illustrate, this period website-discuss didn't "make the cut", but in previous periods it did. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- For background on what this is, see: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/message.jspa?messageID=24416#24416 http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/message.jspa?messageID=25200#25200 ============================= cab-discuss 03/01 - 03/15 ============================= Size of all threads during period: Thread size Topic ----------- ----- 44 Last Day for Nominations 32 Test poll penetration 27 OGB candidate policy question 14 core contributor roll call (Was: Test poll penetration) 14 Priorities results 13 Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) 11 Nomination 11 Nominations Accepted? 8 nomination 8 Candidate mailing list? 6 polls machinery: "Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/opensolaris.org/bin/vote-sh", line 87, in ?" 6 Nominating ... 6 Interesting twist: abstentions 6 Community Priorities/Polling Test open 6 Board Elections 2007 question 5 Nominations Accepted? 5 I accept 5 Al's questions (Was: Test poll penetration) 4 opensolaris.org home page update 4 OGB Nomination 4 (no subject) 3 can't access Bio/Position 3 Upon further review... 3 Proposed ballot 2 ballot test ques presented as a poll 2 Nominating Roland Mainz for OGB 2 Links to my bio & position statements 2 Alias for Board candidates 1 seconds... 1 recognized as a core contributor 1 howto join the poll and vote ... 1 Zones config 1 Short Biography & OGB Election Statement 1 Seconding OGB nominations 1 Position statements 1 Podcasts for election page 1 OGB position.... 1 OGB March 2007 Election 1 Nomination of John J. McLaughlin for OpenSolaris Governing Board 1 Jim Grisanzio for Governing Board 1 IT bliss 1 I decline... ;-( 1 Draft minutes, 2007/03/07 1 Contributors alias now open 1 Bryan Cantrills OGB Candidate questions 1 Board Election 2007/Ratify Constitution poll opens, 12 Mar 00:00 PDT 1 Bio for johnj 1 "priority statement" ================================================================ Posting activity by person for period: # of posts By ---------- -------------------------------------------------- 32 sch at sun.com (stephen hahn) 27 al at logical-approach.com (al hopper) 15 webmink at sun.com (simon phipps) 15 dclarke at blastwave.org (dennis clarke) 14 glynn.foster at sun.com (glynn foster) 14 eric.boutilier at sun.com (eric boutilier) 12 mb1x at gmx.com (martin bochnig) 12 keith.wesolowski at sun.com (keith m wesolowski) 11 alan.coopersmith at sun.com (alan coopersmith) 10 garrett at damore.org (garrett d'amore) 10 binarycrusader at gmail.com (shawn walker) 8 casper.dik at sun.com (casper dik) 7 james.mcpherson at sun.com (james c. mcpherson) 6 mgerdts at gmail.com (mike gerdts) 6 joerg.schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (joerg schilling) 5 rich.teer at rite-group.com (rich teer) 5 john.plocher at sun.com (john plocher) 5 fielding at gbiv.com (roy t. fielding) 5 bmc at eng.sun.com (bryan cantrill) 4 stevel at sun.com (stephen lau) 4 roland.mainz at nrubsig.org (roland mainz) 4 james.d.carlson at sun.com (james carlson) 3 sch at eng.sun.com (stephen hahn) 3 menno.lageman at sun.com (menno lageman) 3 jim.grisanzio at sun.com (jim grisanzio) 3 ian at ianshome.com (ian collins) 3 david.comay at sun.com (david comay) 2 webmink at gmail.com (simon phipps) 2 unixconsole at yahoo.com (octave orgeron) 2 stefanparvu14 at yahoo.com (stefan parvu) 2 richlowe at richlowe.net (richard lowe) 2 mike.kupfer at sun.com (mike kupfer) 2 karynritter at yahoo.com (karyn ritter) 2 karyn.ritter at gmail.com (karyn ritter) 2 flash at systemnews.com (john j. mclaughlin) 2 derek.cicero at sun.com (derek cicero) 1 srivatsa17486 at gmail.com (srivatsa) 1 sommerfeld at sun.com (bill sommerfeld) 1 sks at cvok.co.uk (sean sprague) 1 simon.phipps at sun.com (simon phipps) 1 jk at tools.de (juergen keil) 1 jamesd.wi at gmail.com (james dickens) 1 holger.s.berger at googlemail.com (holger berger) 1 ghee.teo at sun.com (ghee teo) 1 frank.hofmann at sun.com (frank hofmann) 1 flash at systemnews.com (john j mclaughlin) 1 dp at eng.sun.com (dan price) 1 darren.moffat at sun.com (darren j moffat) 1 cyril.plisko at mountall.com (cyril plisko) 1 bonnie.corwin at sun.com (bonnie corwin) 1 alan.hargreaves at sun.com (alan hargreaves) 1 alan.duboff at sun.com (alan duboff) ================================================================ Discussion URL: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=17 Main URL: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/ From al at logical-approach.com Thu Mar 22 13:06:35 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:06:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: <1174586125.27921.4.camel@thunk> References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <4602933A.20608@Sun.COM> <1174586125.27921.4.camel@thunk> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 15:31 +0100, Frank Van Der Linden wrote: > > Simon Phipps wrote: > > > James Carlson wrote: > > >> > > >> I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a > > >> week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? > > >> > > >> > > >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/#electioncalendar > > >> > > > > > > I'm not campaigning. Nice excuse though. > > > > I assume that James refers to being interviewed as campaigning. The > > problem here is, what is the definition of "campaigning"? > > When the election schedule was discussed, I objected to including an > "official end of campaigning" specifically because I thought it would > provoke distracting and pointless meta-arguments about whether or not a > particular activity constitutes "campaigning". > > my prediction appears to have come true. I'm happy for you Bill! :) Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Thu Mar 22 17:43:50 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:43:50 +1200 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <460322C6.50701@sun.com> Hey, James Carlson wrote: > Simon Phipps writes: >> I've now interviewed all of the OGB Election candidates who have >> responded to my offer to do so. I have posted the interviews on my >> blog - I just published a list of them[1]. I know several people >> wanted to wait until my series was complete before voting, so this is >> by way of a signal that it's time to vote! I just did. > > I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a > week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/#electioncalendar FWIW, it's been awesome having Simon doing these interviews - it's really helped for my own personal vote, and I think it has been good for the project having candidates being free and able to answer questions that are of particular interest to the membership. I'd personally advocate disposing of the campaigning restrictions for future elections. Glynn From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Thu Mar 22 17:52:42 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:52:42 +1200 Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama In-Reply-To: <20070320185243.GA8129@sun.com> References: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> <20070320153527.GA859175@sun.com> <200703201841.l2KIffq3016245@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <20070320185243.GA8129@sun.com> Message-ID: <460324DA.90701@sun.com> Hey, Stephen Hahn wrote: > Based on 3 yes votes by Board Members, I have added an "At Large" Core > Contributor grant for Masayuki Murayama. (The system currently > registers these as grants by the "cab" Community Group.) While I have no problems with Masayuki becoming a core contributor, I assumed we have reached a point where the membership lists should be *frozen* for this year's election. If this is still the case (and I would very much advocate this), Masayuki won't be able to vote this time around, right? Glynn From al at logical-approach.com Thu Mar 22 18:19:43 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 20:19:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Core Contributor Status for Masayuki Murayama In-Reply-To: <460324DA.90701@sun.com> References: <45FFAAAB.7050407@sun.com> <20070320153527.GA859175@sun.com> <200703201841.l2KIffq3016245@vaticaan.holland.sun.com> <20070320185243.GA8129@sun.com> <460324DA.90701@sun.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Mar 2007, Glynn Foster wrote: > Hey, > > Stephen Hahn wrote: > > Based on 3 yes votes by Board Members, I have added an "At Large" Core > > Contributor grant for Masayuki Murayama. (The system currently > > registers these as grants by the "cab" Community Group.) > > While I have no problems with Masayuki becoming a core contributor, I assumed we > have reached a point where the membership lists should be *frozen* for this > year's election. If this is still the case (and I would very much advocate > this), Masayuki won't be able to vote this time around, right? That is correct (unable to vote in the March 2007 OGB election). Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. al at logical-approach.com Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Mar 22 20:31:12 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:31:12 +0900 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [Contributors] Candidate Interviews Completed. In-Reply-To: <460322C6.50701@sun.com> References: <968D45C9-26C7-4309-9656-3554051197D4@sun.com> <17922.32389.729484.104191@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <460322C6.50701@sun.com> Message-ID: <46034A00.1040300@Sun.COM> Glynn Foster wrote On 03/23/07 09:43,: > Hey, > > James Carlson wrote: > >>Simon Phipps writes: >> >>>I've now interviewed all of the OGB Election candidates who have >>>responded to my offer to do so. I have posted the interviews on my >>>blog - I just published a list of them[1]. I know several people >>>wanted to wait until my series was complete before voting, so this is >>>by way of a signal that it's time to vote! I just did. >> >>I could have sworn that campaigning was supposed to be completed a >>week and a half ago. Am I the only one observing that? >> >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/cab/OGB_Election_Status/#electioncalendar > > > FWIW, it's been awesome having Simon doing these interviews - Absolutly. It's excellent. It's a very large library of OpenSolaris podcasts for the community. We should to do more live content for OpenSolaris in the future. >it's really helped > for my own personal vote, and I think it has been good for the project having > candidates being free and able to answer questions that are of particular > interest to the membership. I'd personally advocate disposing of the campaigning > restrictions for future elections. Agree. We've generated a great deal of content the last two weeks that people can evaluate, but we still have a pretty low turn out. Had we stopped, we'd have an even lower turn out. Jim From rheilke at dragonhearth.com Fri Mar 23 07:18:22 2007 From: rheilke at dragonhearth.com (Rainer Heilke) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 07:18:22 PDT Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: Re: Non-urgency of replacing Jive (Was: Priorities results) In-Reply-To: <1174578186.7927.54.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <16853894.1174659532707.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> OK, so I wasn't dreaming. This is what I thought Jive did (the other posts made me doubt my understanding, as they almost gave the impression that Jive was some peripheral email function). I also placed Jive replacement high, because this was my original understanding (somewhat dimmed by time) of what Jive was. I agree with you whole-heartedly. (Effective) Communication is the core of opensolaris.org. This makes me wonder if the poll might have come out a little differently if each item had had a clear explanation of what it was/implied. If others are like me, they're too busy doing other things (hopefully trying to contribute) to learn and remember all the intricacies of how everything on the opensolaris.org site works. Rainer This message posted from opensolaris.org From Brian.Nitz at Sun.COM Fri Mar 23 11:18:08 2007 From: Brian.Nitz at Sun.COM (Brian Nitz) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:18:08 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Election Voting Opens Mon Mar 12th (00:00 hrs) In-Reply-To: <34130.72.39.216.186.1174571073.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> References: <34130.72.39.216.186.1174571073.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: <460419E0.7040009@sun.com> I'll try not to muddle things further, but the "Review your contributor grants" section of the poll instructions and relevant sections of the draft constitution could be made more specific to this election: http://opensolaris.org/os/project/website/poll_instructions In simple terms, if you are not a core contributor, you cannot vote in this election. If you feel you have been overlooked as a core contributor, it may be too late. But quickly contact the core contributors of the community(s) you are affiliated with and/or send a request to cab-discuss at opensolaris dot org. To be honest, I think the community acceptance process and core contribution acceptance process could use some refinement and the election process could use some clarity. (Yes I have successfully voted in Florida) Dennis Clarke wrote: > For the sake of clarity : > > Election Voting Opens Mon Mar 12th (00:00 hrs) > Election Voting Closes Mon Mar 26th (24:00 hrs) > > Which is why I had cast my votes on Monday the 12th of March because the > actual character of a person is far more important to me than anything > they may say here or there or post in some response. I already have a > good feel for who is running and who they are over the years that I have > known them. I vote based on the person, their history and their true > character in as much as I can fathom over the years. > > My reasons for not participating in the interview process are my own. > > I would have enjoyed a debate but I think that the debate process would have > required too many rounds with too many judges and too much infrastructure to > be practical. > > Having said all that .. I have one last thing to say and it will be my last > word on matters before the voting process closes. > > I have been involved with the Solaris Community for quite some time. Over > the past decade I have spoken with, worked with, played and argued with > some really brilliant and vibrant personalities. People that either really > *knew* what they were talking about or had a gift for helping other people. > On rare occasion I was able to talk with people that could do both at > the same time. Often times that is what "community" really means. The > gathering together of our collective knowledge and personalities such that > we may work together, play together and help each other. > > I am overwhelmed by the number of times that I have worked well through the > night on some problem and had a number of people "right there" watching and > helping and getting involved. Last night was a great example for those that > helped and you know who you are. :-) There have been times when I have > stayed on the phone/keyboard/whatever all night helping someone else. This > is what *we* do. Some of us are getting paid to do these things and some > are in there with their guts and hearts and nothing else. There are a > number of us here that have been around as long as I can recall. I know > that the internet puts us all at a distance while also bringing us together. > Its a whole new world of relationships that work within a dynamic we are > still only beginning to really understand as the social creatures that we > are. > > Sometimes just watching green letters pop up on an xterm are all that we > know of each other. Sometimes we live next door or around the corner. Have > I ever met you? What do we mean by "meet" in this new world? In this new > paradign for human relationships we are often misunderstood because we are > social creatures and not really "built" for such disconnected relations. > Somehow we have to keep working forwards while our technology finds ways to > bring us together. I think that is what I am doing .. working to bring us, > the community, forwards. > > Dennis Clarke > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris.org > From dclarke at blastwave.org Fri Mar 23 11:36:31 2007 From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Election Voting Opens Mon Mar 12th (00:00 hrs) In-Reply-To: <460419E0.7040009@sun.com> References: <34130.72.39.216.186.1174571073.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <460419E0.7040009@sun.com> Message-ID: <23282.66.225.151.225.1174674991.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> > I'll try not to muddle things further, but the "Review your contributor > grants" section of the poll instructions and relevant sections of the > draft constitution could be made more specific to this election: > http://opensolaris.org/os/project/website/poll_instructions > > In simple terms, if you are not a core contributor, you cannot vote in > this election. Yes, it needs an overhaul. Then again .. I still have to write the HOWTO page at Blastwave again which is an obfuscated mess. I need to clean up my own backyard too I guess. Dennis From Brian.Nitz at Sun.COM Fri Mar 23 11:52:05 2007 From: Brian.Nitz at Sun.COM (Brian Nitz) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:52:05 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Election Voting Opens Mon Mar 12th (00:00 hrs) In-Reply-To: <23282.66.225.151.225.1174674991.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> References: <34130.72.39.216.186.1174571073.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> <460419E0.7040009@sun.com> <23282.66.225.151.225.1174674991.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org> Message-ID: <460421D5.9090208@sun.com> You might want to look at the way the GNOME community handles elections. I thought that was pretty straightforward. Dennis Clarke wrote: >> I'll try not to muddle things further, but the "Review your contributor >> grants" section of the poll instructions and relevant sections of the >> draft constitution could be made more specific to this election: >> http://opensolaris.org/os/project/website/poll_instructions >> >> In simple terms, if you are not a core contributor, you cannot vote in >> this election. >> > > Yes, it needs an overhaul. > > Then again .. I still have to write the HOWTO page at Blastwave again > which is an obfuscated mess. I need to clean up my own backyard too I > guess. > > Dennis > > > From brian.nitz at sun.com Fri Mar 23 15:28:09 2007 From: brian.nitz at sun.com (Brian Nitz) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:28:09 PDT Subject: [cab-discuss] request to be recognised as a contributor In-Reply-To: <45C7BB38.5070007@ianshome.com> Message-ID: <14464762.1174688919867.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Note that I'm not requesting "core" at the moment, so there is no rush before the election, but I would like to at least be recognized for some contributions across communities. While I'll have to admit that the bulk of my recent attention was focused on supporting Sun customers who previously chose a GNU/linux offering, some of this recent effort was directed towards paving a path for migration from this desktop linux distribution to OpenSolaris. Most of my OpenSolaris contributions are in the area of Q/A, discovering problems in internal testing and reproducing problems found in the real world: - Configured early brandz builds as a prototype migration path for a custom application which was tied to GNU/linux APIs. This setup unearthed bugs and RFEs which when fixed, will make it easier for everyone to run gnu/linux applications under Solaris. - Logged bugs where there are gaps between what Sun's opensolaris distribution provides and what linux users expect. Logged RFEs suggesting the integration of vim and libraries commonly used in linux. Logged bugs associated with keyboard input and xklavier. - Helped find GNOME desktop performance bottlenecks on OpenSolaris, especially on Sun Ray thin-clients. Configured a mozilla/firefox performance and test bed and made it available to the mozilla team. Used libumem to find a large memory leak in libz and performance issues in acroread and evince on OpenSolaris. - Ported gtkbench to OpenSolaris, worked with the gtkbench author so that this benchmark could be incorporated into Sun performance team's automated benchmarks. - Triaged one of the first opensource (GNOME) bugs discovered with dtrace. Helped evangelize the value tools such as dtrace and libumem can add to open source communities. - Provided support to early users of GNOME on Solaris on several mailing lists including the Sun Java Desktop System forum. - Provided some linux migration and other OpenSolaris neophyte tips on blogs.sun.com/bnitz I don't know the path from pleb to contributor to core contributor, but I hope to start somewhere. As time goes on and legacy GNU/Linux support becomes a distant memory, I hope to spend more time contributing directly to OpenSolaris. I hope that as someone who has long straddled the divide between GNU/Linux and OpenSolaris, I can provide useful input regrading some of the things they do right. This message posted from opensolaris.org From webmink at sun.com Fri Mar 23 17:41:57 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:41:57 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] request to be recognised as a contributor In-Reply-To: <14464762.1174688919867.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <14464762.1174688919867.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <8A18A7BC-F5DF-4DEE-9A8B-F938AA65042A@sun.com> Thanks, Brian; since this is not election-urgent, would you have any objection to us deferring this request to the new OGB? Regards Simon On Mar 23, 2007, at 22:28, Brian Nitz wrote: > Note that I'm not requesting "core" at the moment, so there is no > rush before the election, but I would like to at least be > recognized for some contributions across communities. > > While I'll have to admit that the bulk of my recent attention was > focused on supporting Sun customers who previously chose a GNU/ > linux offering, some of this recent effort was directed towards > paving a path for migration from this desktop linux distribution to > OpenSolaris. Most of my OpenSolaris contributions are in the area > of Q/A, discovering problems in internal testing and reproducing > problems found in the real world: > > - Configured early brandz builds as a prototype migration path > for a custom application which was tied to GNU/linux APIs. This > setup unearthed bugs and RFEs which when fixed, will make it easier > for everyone to run gnu/linux applications under Solaris. > > - Logged bugs where there are gaps between what Sun's opensolaris > distribution provides and what linux users expect. Logged RFEs > suggesting the integration of vim and libraries commonly used in > linux. Logged bugs associated with keyboard input and xklavier. > > - Helped find GNOME desktop performance bottlenecks on OpenSolaris, > especially on Sun Ray thin-clients. Configured a mozilla/firefox > performance and test bed and made it available to the mozilla > team. Used libumem to find a large memory leak in libz and > performance issues in acroread and evince on OpenSolaris. > > - Ported gtkbench to OpenSolaris, worked with the gtkbench author > so that this benchmark could be incorporated into Sun performance > team's automated benchmarks. > > - Triaged one of the first opensource (GNOME) bugs discovered with > dtrace. Helped evangelize the value tools such as dtrace and > libumem can add to open source communities. > > - Provided support to early users of GNOME on Solaris on several > mailing lists including the Sun Java Desktop System forum. > > - Provided some linux migration and other OpenSolaris neophyte tips > on blogs.sun.com/bnitz > > I don't know the path from pleb to contributor to core contributor, > but I hope to start somewhere. As time goes on and legacy GNU/ > Linux support becomes a distant memory, I hope to spend more time > contributing directly to OpenSolaris. I hope that as someone who > has long straddled the divide between GNU/Linux and OpenSolaris, I > can provide useful input regrading some of the things they do right. > > > This message posted from opensolaris.org > _______________________________________________ > cab-discuss mailing list > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org From Brian.Nitz at Sun.COM Fri Mar 23 18:36:17 2007 From: Brian.Nitz at Sun.COM (Brian Nitz) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:36:17 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] request to be recognised as a contributor In-Reply-To: <8A18A7BC-F5DF-4DEE-9A8B-F938AA65042A@sun.com> References: <14464762.1174688919867.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <8A18A7BC-F5DF-4DEE-9A8B-F938AA65042A@sun.com> Message-ID: <46048091.4090107@sun.com> Simon, No problem, no objection. It's not urgent for this election but I thought I'd mention it. Other contributing lurkers, (including perhaps those you would consider core contributors) might also have first noticed they're unlisted while reviewing the poll grants. May the winners add "clarification of contributor and core contributor process" to their already very full agenda. Thanks. Simon Phipps wrote: > Thanks, Brian; since this is not election-urgent, would you have any > objection to us deferring this request to the new OGB? > > Regards > > Simon > > On Mar 23, 2007, at 22:28, Brian Nitz wrote: > >> Note that I'm not requesting "core" at the moment, so there is no >> rush before the election, but I would like to at least be recognized >> for some contributions across communities. >> >> While I'll have to admit that the bulk of my recent attention was >> focused on supporting Sun customers who previously chose a GNU/linux >> offering, some of this recent effort was directed towards paving a >> path for migration from this desktop linux distribution to >> OpenSolaris. Most of my OpenSolaris contributions are in the area of >> Q/A, discovering problems in internal testing and reproducing >> problems found in the real world: >> >> - Configured early brandz builds as a prototype migration path for >> a custom application which was tied to GNU/linux APIs. This setup >> unearthed bugs and RFEs which when fixed, will make it easier for >> everyone to run gnu/linux applications under Solaris. >> >> - Logged bugs where there are gaps between what Sun's opensolaris >> distribution provides and what linux users expect. Logged RFEs >> suggesting the integration of vim and libraries commonly used in >> linux. Logged bugs associated with keyboard input and xklavier. >> >> - Helped find GNOME desktop performance bottlenecks on OpenSolaris, >> especially on Sun Ray thin-clients. Configured a mozilla/firefox >> performance and test bed and made it available to the mozilla team. >> Used libumem to find a large memory leak in libz and performance >> issues in acroread and evince on OpenSolaris. >> >> - Ported gtkbench to OpenSolaris, worked with the gtkbench author so >> that this benchmark could be incorporated into Sun performance team's >> automated benchmarks. >> >> - Triaged one of the first opensource (GNOME) bugs discovered with >> dtrace. Helped evangelize the value tools such as dtrace and libumem >> can add to open source communities. >> >> - Provided support to early users of GNOME on Solaris on several >> mailing lists including the Sun Java Desktop System forum. >> >> - Provided some linux migration and other OpenSolaris neophyte tips >> on blogs.sun.com/bnitz >> >> I don't know the path from pleb to contributor to core contributor, >> but I hope to start somewhere. As time goes on and legacy GNU/Linux >> support becomes a distant memory, I hope to spend more time >> contributing directly to OpenSolaris. I hope that as someone who has >> long straddled the divide between GNU/Linux and OpenSolaris, I can >> provide useful input regrading some of the things they do right. >> >> >> This message posted from opensolaris.org >> _______________________________________________ >> cab-discuss mailing list >> cab-discuss at opensolaris.org > From webmink at sun.com Fri Mar 23 18:40:59 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:40:59 +0000 Subject: [cab-discuss] request to be recognised as a contributor In-Reply-To: <46048091.4090107@sun.com> References: <14464762.1174688919867.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <8A18A7BC-F5DF-4DEE-9A8B-F938AA65042A@sun.com> <46048091.4090107@sun.com> Message-ID: <3DF50360-76A4-4F10-A0E9-1EBF67499604@Sun.COM> Indeed, that is one of my strong recommendations[1]. Thank-you for being so understanding. S. [1] http://blogs.sun.com/webmink/entry/i_just_voted On Mar 24, 2007, at 01:36, Brian Nitz wrote: > Simon, > > No problem, no objection. It's not urgent for this election but I > thought I'd mention it. Other contributing lurkers, (including > perhaps those you would consider core contributors) might also have > first noticed they're unlisted while reviewing the poll grants. > May the winners add "clarification of contributor and core > contributor process" to their already very full agenda. > > Thanks. > > > Simon Phipps wrote: >> Thanks, Brian; since this is not election-urgent, would you have >> any objection to us deferring this request to the new OGB? >> >> Regards >> >> Simon >> >> On Mar 23, 2007, at 22:28, Brian Nitz wrote: >> >>> Note that I'm not requesting "core" at the moment, so there is no >>> rush before the election, but I would like to at least be >>> recognized for some contributions across communities. >>> >>> While I'll have to admit that the bulk of my recent attention was >>> focused on supporting Sun customers who previously chose a GNU/ >>> linux offering, some of this recent effort was directed towards >>> paving a path for migration from this desktop linux distribution >>> to OpenSolaris. Most of my OpenSolaris contributions are in the >>> area of Q/A, discovering problems in internal testing and >>> reproducing problems found in the real world: >>> >>> - Configured early brandz builds as a prototype migration path >>> for a custom application which was tied to GNU/linux APIs. This >>> setup unearthed bugs and RFEs which when fixed, will make it >>> easier for everyone to run gnu/linux applications under Solaris. >>> >>> - Logged bugs where there are gaps between what Sun's >>> opensolaris distribution provides and what linux users expect. >>> Logged RFEs suggesting the integration of vim and libraries >>> commonly used in linux. Logged bugs associated with keyboard >>> input and xklavier. >>> >>> - Helped find GNOME desktop performance bottlenecks on >>> OpenSolaris, especially on Sun Ray thin-clients. Configured a >>> mozilla/firefox performance and test bed and made it available to >>> the mozilla team. Used libumem to find a large memory leak in >>> libz and performance issues in acroread and evince on OpenSolaris. >>> >>> - Ported gtkbench to OpenSolaris, worked with the gtkbench >>> author so that this benchmark could be incorporated into Sun >>> performance team's automated benchmarks. >>> >>> - Triaged one of the first opensource (GNOME) bugs discovered >>> with dtrace. Helped evangelize the value tools such as dtrace >>> and libumem can add to open source communities. >>> >>> - Provided support to early users of GNOME on Solaris on several >>> mailing lists including the Sun Java Desktop System forum. >>> >>> - Provided some linux migration and other OpenSolaris neophyte >>> tips on blogs.sun.com/bnitz >>> >>> I don't know the path from pleb to contributor to core >>> contributor, but I hope to start somewhere. As time goes on and >>> legacy GNU/Linux support becomes a distant memory, I hope to >>> spend more time contributing directly to OpenSolaris. I hope >>> that as someone who has long straddled the divide between GNU/ >>> Linux and OpenSolaris, I can provide useful input regrading some >>> of the things they do right. >>> >>> >>> This message posted from opensolaris.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> cab-discuss mailing list >>> cab-discuss at opensolaris.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > cab-discuss mailing list > cab-discuss at opensolaris.org From al at logical-approach.com Fri Mar 23 21:16:55 2007 From: al at logical-approach.com (Al Hopper) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 23:16:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [cab-discuss] request to be recognised as a contributor In-Reply-To: <3DF50360-76A4-4F10-A0E9-1EBF67499604@Sun.COM> References: <14464762.1174688919867.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <8A18A7BC-F5DF-4DEE-9A8B-F938AA65042A@sun.com> <46048091.4090107@sun.com> <3DF50360-76A4-4F10-A0E9-1EBF67499604@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Mar 2007, Simon Phipps wrote: > Indeed, that is one of my strong recommendations[1]. Thank-you for > being so understanding. +1 Brian - thanks for being understanding and unselfish. One of the facets of American politics I've found disconcerting, is that the outgoing President often grants "last minute" pardons - based on criteria that are personal and confidential. IOW - there is no attempt at debate or to reach a decision based on consensus. And those "last minute" actions/changes usually continue to cause controversy for many years after that adminstration "retires". Bringing that lesson home, I'm (personally) very reluctant to make any "last minute" type decisions/changes to the OpenSolaris project - as I feel that during the "last days" of the outgoing OGB, decisions that have the potential to cause controversy are best left t