From young.j.song at sun.com Thu Mar 2 16:16:09 2006 From: young.j.song at sun.com (Young Joo Song) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:16:09 PST Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Re: Translations: Content Project In-Reply-To: <4404824E.8050000@sun.com> Message-ID: <17609916.1141344999604.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> Hi Jim, I have a presentation file originally written in Japanese. This is for Solaris installation created by a marketing person at Sun. My colleagues who know Japanese have told me that the document is very useful. It can be localized into English, although with many screen captures, the task may not be that simple. Likewise, there may be many How-to documents written in other languages that can be translated into English. Would this kind of work fit into the Content project? regards, Young -- This messages posted from opensolaris.org From bill at rushmores.net Fri Mar 3 07:26:47 2006 From: bill at rushmores.net (Bill Rushmore) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:26:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Re: Translations: Content Project In-Reply-To: <17609916.1141344999604.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> References: <17609916.1141344999604.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, Young Joo Song wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I have a presentation file originally written in Japanese. This is for Solaris installation created by a marketing person at Sun. My colleagues who know Japanese have told me that the document is very useful. It can be localized into English, although with many screen captures, the task may not be that simple. Likewise, there may be many How-to documents written in other languages that can be translated into English. Would this kind of work fit into the Content project? > > regards, > Young > Young, In my opinion this is exaclty the kind of thing for the Content Project. Bill From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Fri Mar 3 08:38:08 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:38:08 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Re: Translations: Content Project In-Reply-To: References: <17609916.1141344999604.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> Message-ID: <440870F0.7030301@sun.com> Bill Rushmore wrote: > On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, Young Joo Song wrote: > > >>Hi Jim, >> >>I have a presentation file originally written in Japanese. This is for Solaris installation created by a marketing person at Sun. My colleagues who know Japanese have told me that the document is very useful. It can be localized into English, although with many screen captures, the task may not be that simple. Likewise, there may be many How-to documents written in other languages that can be translated into English. Would this kind of work fit into the Content project? >> >>regards, >>Young >> > > > Young, > > In my opinion this is exaclty the kind of thing for the Content Project. > > Bill Totally agree. Do you know someone who can do the translation? Jim From young.j.song at sun.com Fri Mar 3 16:13:48 2006 From: young.j.song at sun.com (Young Joo Song) Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:13:48 PST Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Re: Re: Translations: Content Project In-Reply-To: <440870F0.7030301@sun.com> Message-ID: <31761314.1141431258812.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> Not yet. We may have a generous volunteer in the community? :-) At least we got the OK from the author. I'll check for the document. Young -- This messages posted from opensolaris.org From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Mar 8 14:25:42 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:25:42 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Re: Re: Translations: Content Project In-Reply-To: <31761314.1141431258812.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> References: <31761314.1141431258812.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> Message-ID: <440F59E6.3060307@sun.com> Young Joo Song wrote: > Not yet. We may have a generous volunteer in the community? :-) At least we got the OK from the author. I'll check for the document. Perhaps you can check on the Japanese list to see if anyone is interested in offering a translation as a contribution. Jim From young.j.song at sun.com Tue Mar 14 09:10:29 2006 From: young.j.song at sun.com (Young Joo Song) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:10:29 PST Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Re: Re: Re: Translations: Content Project In-Reply-To: <440F59E6.3060307@sun.com> Message-ID: <6090890.1142356259501.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> Sorry about the delay in responding. I'm checking whether the document can be provided in English for the participation of various i18n communities. One question is how these documents -and others in the future- will be organized and made available on the Content project website for community participation. Young -- This messages posted from opensolaris.org From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Tue Mar 14 10:26:58 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:26:58 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Re: Re: Re: Translations: Content Project In-Reply-To: <6090890.1142356259501.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> References: <6090890.1142356259501.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> Message-ID: <44170AF2.4070308@sun.com> Young Joo Song wrote: > Sorry about the delay in responding. I'm checking whether the document can be provided in English for the participation of various i18n communities. > > One question is how these documents -and others in the future- will be organized and made available on the Content project website for community participation. I view the Content Project on the site and this mail list as a workspace, not a place for display. The name "content project" is deliberately generic, too, because I didn't want it to host content long term. So, documents are proposed, posted, reviewed, edited, discussed, voted on, etc, here in this project. And when they are done, they are published to other places where they would more logically live, such as a specific community, or on the Articles Page, or within a user group, or externally. Jim From mo137222 at jurassic.sfbay.sun.com Tue Mar 21 16:57:05 2006 From: mo137222 at jurassic.sfbay.sun.com (Michelle Olson) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:57:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [content-discuss] article idea Message-ID: <200603220102.k2M12Tj3956867@jurassic.eng.sun.com> Hi, I have an idea for an article I'd like to add to the content project. Here it is, let me know what you think: 'Delivering commercial documentation as open source and other new opportunities for increasing communication.' Here are the main sections I scribbled on paper so far: 1-Introductions, discussion, mail 2-Planning, licensing, tools 3-Inclusion, interviews, groups 4-Writing, editing, testing, publishing Basically, this is my story about contributing to the documentation project for OpenSolaris. It would include a short background section and then frame the technical hurdles around the four sections above, each of which would include the list of questions I was asked to answer. Thoughts? Thanks, Michelle From bill at rushmores.net Tue Mar 21 17:16:05 2006 From: bill at rushmores.net (Bill Rushmore) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:16:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [content-discuss] article idea In-Reply-To: <200603220102.k2M12Tj3956867@jurassic.eng.sun.com> References: <200603220102.k2M12Tj3956867@jurassic.eng.sun.com> Message-ID: Sounds interesting to me. I say go for it! Bill rushmores.net On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Michelle Olson wrote: > Hi, > > I have an idea for an article I'd like to add to the content project. > Here it is, let me know what you think: > > 'Delivering commercial documentation as open source and other new > opportunities for increasing communication.' > > Here are the main sections I scribbled on paper so far: > > 1-Introductions, discussion, mail > 2-Planning, licensing, tools > 3-Inclusion, interviews, groups > 4-Writing, editing, testing, publishing > > Basically, this is my story about contributing to the documentation > project for OpenSolaris. It would include a short background section > and then frame the technical hurdles around the four sections above, > each of which would include the list of questions I was asked to > answer. Thoughts? > > Thanks, > Michelle From darkjoker at gmail.com Tue Mar 21 17:37:38 2006 From: darkjoker at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ignacio_Marambio_Cat=E1n?=) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:37:38 -0300 Subject: [content-discuss] article idea In-Reply-To: References: <200603220102.k2M12Tj3956867@jurassic.eng.sun.com> Message-ID: On 3/21/06, Bill Rushmore wrote: > Sounds interesting to me. I say go for it! > > Bill > rushmores.net > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Michelle Olson wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I have an idea for an article I'd like to add to the content project. > > Here it is, let me know what you think: > > > > 'Delivering commercial documentation as open source and other new > > opportunities for increasing communication.' > > > > Here are the main sections I scribbled on paper so far: > > > > 1-Introductions, discussion, mail > > 2-Planning, licensing, tools > > 3-Inclusion, interviews, groups > > 4-Writing, editing, testing, publishing > > > > Basically, this is my story about contributing to the documentation > > project for OpenSolaris. It would include a short background section > > and then frame the technical hurdles around the four sections above, > > each of which would include the list of questions I was asked to > > answer. Thoughts? > > > > Thanks, > > Michelle The more contributions, the better, so please, go ahead, I look forward to reading and maybe commenting about it :) nacho From mo137222 at jurassic.sfbay.sun.com Wed Mar 22 11:08:40 2006 From: mo137222 at jurassic.sfbay.sun.com (Michelle Olson) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:08:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [content-discuss] article idea Message-ID: <200603221908.k2MJ8ecI915725@jurassic.eng.sun.com> Awesome, thanks for the support, I'll get something going around these ideas and post a first draft to the list. Thanks, Michelle >DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references ; b=ZzPCY2uy7NuEoG5KKtRWOul2ZZ5YWdNHkaXCF7ZyIG6TQSronh9RrVI3bhXeS4Dgmmre F66VPCq73rKu/P+FeZuhnfLFfhRz0Ua3bD3yf/9+dHjDqRRobV0OwzB9Kp4ppZzWXUjRcB 00a6d8Sdrb8UARQ/iCeYii/F/MPhCt4LQ= >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:37:38 -0300 >From: "Ignacio Marambio Cat?n" >To: "Bill Rushmore" >Subject: Re: [content-discuss] article idea >Cc: "Michelle Olson" , content-discuss at opensolaris.org >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Disposition: inline >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by jurassic.eng.sun.com id k2M1bgUY104403 > >On 3/21/06, Bill Rushmore wrote: >> Sounds interesting to me. I say go for it! >> >> Bill >> rushmores.net >> >> On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Michelle Olson wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > I have an idea for an article I'd like to add to the content project. >> > Here it is, let me know what you think: >> > >> > 'Delivering commercial documentation as open source and other new >> > opportunities for increasing communication.' >> > >> > Here are the main sections I scribbled on paper so far: >> > >> > 1-Introductions, discussion, mail >> > 2-Planning, licensing, tools >> > 3-Inclusion, interviews, groups >> > 4-Writing, editing, testing, publishing >> > >> > Basically, this is my story about contributing to the documentation >> > project for OpenSolaris. It would include a short background section >> > and then frame the technical hurdles around the four sections above, >> > each of which would include the list of questions I was asked to >> > answer. Thoughts? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Michelle >The more contributions, the better, so please, go ahead, I look >forward to reading and maybe commenting about it :) > >nacho > From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Mar 22 11:17:25 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:17:25 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] article idea In-Reply-To: <200603220102.k2M12Tj3956867@jurassic.eng.sun.com> References: <200603220102.k2M12Tj3956867@jurassic.eng.sun.com> Message-ID: <4421A2C5.2090402@sun.com> Michelle Olson wrote: > Hi, > > I have an idea for an article I'd like to add to the content project. > Here it is, let me know what you think: > > 'Delivering commercial documentation as open source and other new > opportunities for increasing communication.' > > Here are the main sections I scribbled on paper so far: > > 1-Introductions, discussion, mail > 2-Planning, licensing, tools > 3-Inclusion, interviews, groups > 4-Writing, editing, testing, publishing > > Basically, this is my story about contributing to the documentation > project for OpenSolaris. It would include a short background section > and then frame the technical hurdles around the four sections above, > each of which would include the list of questions I was asked to > answer. Thoughts? Love it. Especially the "my story" part. Kick us a draft and we'll post for review and get some feedback. Will you be offering the article itself under a license? Jim From mo137222 at jurassic.sfbay.sun.com Wed Mar 22 11:31:38 2006 From: mo137222 at jurassic.sfbay.sun.com (Michelle Olson) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:31:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [content-discuss] article idea Message-ID: <200603221931.k2MJVc3i930366@jurassic.eng.sun.com> Hi, Yes, I'll offer the article under the PDL v1.01 license, see http://opensolaris.org/os/community/documentation/license. -Michelle >Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:17:25 -0800 >From: Jim Grisanzio >Subject: Re: [content-discuss] article idea >To: Michelle Olson >Cc: content-discuss at opensolaris.org >MIME-version: 1.0 >Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja >User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050925 > >Michelle Olson wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have an idea for an article I'd like to add to the content project. >> Here it is, let me know what you think: >> >> 'Delivering commercial documentation as open source and other new >> opportunities for increasing communication.' >> >> Here are the main sections I scribbled on paper so far: >> >> 1-Introductions, discussion, mail >> 2-Planning, licensing, tools >> 3-Inclusion, interviews, groups >> 4-Writing, editing, testing, publishing >> >> Basically, this is my story about contributing to the documentation >> project for OpenSolaris. It would include a short background section >> and then frame the technical hurdles around the four sections above, >> each of which would include the list of questions I was asked to >> answer. Thoughts? > >Love it. Especially the "my story" part. Kick us a draft and we'll post >for review and get some feedback. Will you be offering the article >itself under a license? > >Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Mar 22 11:34:31 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:34:31 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Interviews and Profiles Message-ID: <4421A6C7.5020000@sun.com> I'm interested in getting some interviews and community profiles on the Articles page -- especially since they require very little review and are pretty quick to produce. I'm going to do a couple myself, but I'd also encourage any of you to feel free to propose and write profiles yourselves. Do you have any suggestions as to people in the community who would be good to profile? Who is doing good work out there that would make an interesting Q&A profile? Also, who is doing good work that we don't hear from every day on the lists? Some of the most interesting people are those how are flying under the radar. I'm thinking about pieces I can write and will send around some suggestions as well. Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Mar 22 11:39:19 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:39:19 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] article idea In-Reply-To: <200603221931.k2MJVc3i930366@jurassic.eng.sun.com> References: <200603221931.k2MJVc3i930366@jurassic.eng.sun.com> Message-ID: <4421A7E7.3090804@sun.com> Michelle Olson wrote: > Hi, > > Yes, I'll offer the article under the PDL v1.01 license, see > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/documentation/license. Excellent. Another option for us here as well. Thanks. Jim >>Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:17:25 -0800 >>From: Jim Grisanzio >>Subject: Re: [content-discuss] article idea >>To: Michelle Olson >>Cc: content-discuss at opensolaris.org >>MIME-version: 1.0 >>Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >>X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja >>User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.7.12) > > Gecko/20050925 > >>Michelle Olson wrote: >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>I have an idea for an article I'd like to add to the content > > project. > >>>Here it is, let me know what you think: >>> >>>'Delivering commercial documentation as open source and other new >>>opportunities for increasing communication.' >>> >>>Here are the main sections I scribbled on paper so far: >>> >>>1-Introductions, discussion, mail >>>2-Planning, licensing, tools >>>3-Inclusion, interviews, groups >>>4-Writing, editing, testing, publishing >>> >>>Basically, this is my story about contributing to the documentation >>>project for OpenSolaris. It would include a short background > > section > >>>and then frame the technical hurdles around the four sections > > above, > >>>each of which would include the list of questions I was asked to >>>answer. Thoughts? >> >>Love it. Especially the "my story" part. Kick us a draft and we'll > > post > >>for review and get some feedback. Will you be offering the article >>itself under a license? >> >>Jim > > From bill at rushmores.net Wed Mar 22 12:18:07 2006 From: bill at rushmores.net (Bill Rushmore) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:18:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [content-discuss] Interviews and Profiles In-Reply-To: <4421A6C7.5020000@sun.com> References: <4421A6C7.5020000@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Do you have any suggestions as to people in the community who would be > good to profile? Who is doing good work out there that would make an > interesting Q&A profile? Also, who is doing good work that we don't hear > from every day on the lists? Some of the most interesting people are > those how are flying under the radar. > Some ideas: -Dennis Clark of blastwave.org -How about the first person that submitted a code contribution? -Any/All CAB members -I know it has been asked before is probably not possible but a Sun lawyer who deals OpenSolaris issues. -David Orman, see: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/peteh?entry=underground_bunkers_zfs_and_cool Bill rushmores.net From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Mar 22 14:33:20 2006 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:33:20 -0600 Subject: [content-discuss] Aritcle idea, "Getting Small"? Message-ID: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> I'd like to submit an idea for an article. A summary of what it would be about is here: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2006-March/014494.html In short, an article aimed at sys admins and developers about installing the smallest Solaris Express OS possible and building up a custom, agile, (read, non GNOME or KDE) desktop. Eric From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Mar 22 15:40:02 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:40:02 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Interviews and Profiles In-Reply-To: References: <4421A6C7.5020000@sun.com> Message-ID: <4421E052.4070503@sun.com> Bill Rushmore wrote: > On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >>Do you have any suggestions as to people in the community who would be >>good to profile? Who is doing good work out there that would make an >>interesting Q&A profile? Also, who is doing good work that we don't hear >>from every day on the lists? Some of the most interesting people are >>those how are flying under the radar. > Some ideas: > > -Dennis Clark of blastwave.org Yah, I think Dennis is an interesting character to profile. :) I may be interested in doing that one myself if no one else puts in for it. We'll see if any others would like to profile Mr. Clarke and then we can talk about who does it. But I agree that he should be on the list for sure. He would probably know of others for possible profiles as well. > -How about the first person that submitted a code contribution? Good idea. Stephen Hahn also suggested that the code contributors ought to be profiled in some way. Maybe individually, maybe as a group. Or maybe see if any of them are interested in writing a piece, as well. > -Any/All CAB members The current CAB/OGB's term expires on June 30 and the plan is to have a Constitution at that time. So, perhaps a piece on all the issues involved with developing the OpenSolaris governance -- starting from the announcement by Sun, to the pilot election, to the appointment of Sun/external people, to the Charter, to the Constitution. What is governance and why is it important? What makes the OpenSolaris governance distinct from other communities? Maybe one of the CAB members would be interested in considering those issues for a piece. Or it certainly could be an interview profile as well. > -I know it has been asked before is probably not possible but a Sun > lawyer who deals OpenSolaris issues. I like the idea of exploring some of the legal issues developers and companies have to have to deal with. I see Microsoft has put one of their lawyers out there for some conversation. I blogged about it: http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris?entry=810_lawyers I don't really interact with the Sun lawyers much, so I'll have to think about this one and what we could possibly propose. > -David Orman, see: > http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/peteh?entry=underground_bunkers_zfs_and_cool Now this one has "Case Study" written all over it. Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Mar 22 15:44:36 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:44:36 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Aritcle idea, "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> Eric Boutilier wrote: > I'd like to submit an idea for an article. A summary of what it would be > about is here: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2006-March/014494.html > > > In short, an article aimed at sys admins and developers about installing > the smallest Solaris Express OS possible and building up a custom, > agile, (read, non GNOME or KDE) desktop. I like it. Jim From darkjoker at gmail.com Wed Mar 22 17:48:46 2006 From: darkjoker at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ignacio_Marambio_Cat=E1n?=) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:48:46 -0300 Subject: [content-discuss] Aritcle idea, "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> Message-ID: On 3/22/06, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Eric Boutilier wrote: > > I'd like to submit an idea for an article. A summary of what it would be > > about is here: > > > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2006-March/014494.html > > > > > > In short, an article aimed at sys admins and developers about installing > > the smallest Solaris Express OS possible and building up a custom, > > agile, (read, non GNOME or KDE) desktop. > > > I like it. > > Jim sounds cool and there is not a lot of information about that particular subject is there? nacho From darkjoker at gmail.com Wed Mar 22 18:11:23 2006 From: darkjoker at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ignacio_Marambio_Cat=E1n?=) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:11:23 -0300 Subject: [content-discuss] Interviews and Profiles In-Reply-To: <4421E052.4070503@sun.com> References: <4421A6C7.5020000@sun.com> <4421E052.4070503@sun.com> Message-ID: On 3/22/06, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Bill Rushmore wrote: > > On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > > >>Do you have any suggestions as to people in the community who would be > >>good to profile? Who is doing good work out there that would make an > >>interesting Q&A profile? Also, who is doing good work that we don't hear > >>from every day on the lists? Some of the most interesting people are > >>those how are flying under the radar. Jim, we could profile... hmm... you :) nacho From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Thu Mar 23 15:41:14 2006 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:41:14 -0600 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Aritcle idea, "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> Message-ID: <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> Thanks Jim and Nacho (and previously offline, Bill R. and Al H.) for your +1s to turn this into an article. So because I'm really interested in "Web2.0" concepts -- i.e. what James Governer has coined "Declarative Living" (http://del.icio.us/JamesGovernor/declarativeliving) -- I think I'm gonna attempt to completely write this document in the open. The problem is, the technology to do this properly doesn't exist on opensolaris.org yet, so any suggestions? Off the top of my head, I'm familiar with jotspot.com and the genuix.org Wiki... Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Thu Mar 23 15:58:21 2006 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:58:21 -0600 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Aritcle idea, "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4423361D.4030804@Sun.COM> Here's my initial rough outline. --Eric I. Download CD 1 and CD 2 images; burn CD 1; put CD 2 image on a separate networked box and ensure the ftp server (daemon) is enabled on it. II. Install smallest cluster, SUNWCrnet, on the target box using CD 1. III. Eject CD 1; reboot; re-insert and mount CD 1 IV. Install SUNWbip from CD 1 (contains ftp client) V. Copy CD 2 image over using ftp; mount the image using lofiadm method VI. Install required packages from the X consolidation (SUNWxsvc, SUNWxorg-*, ...) and their dependencies. Required packages rough-draft: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/resources/eric_boutilier/neededbyX.txt VII. Create or copy over a suitable xorg.conf file and enable the Xorg X server using kdmconfig. VIII. Install and configure the update system (pkg-get) and wget from Blastwave. IX. Call 'pkg-get -i xfce' (which installs the Xfce desktop environment and all it's dependencies from CSW/blastwave). From venky.tv at sun.com Thu Mar 23 21:54:44 2006 From: venky.tv at sun.com (Venky) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:24:44 +0530 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Aritcle idea, "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20060324055444.GB343@india.sun.com> Hi Eric, > So because I'm really interested in "Web2.0" concepts -- i.e. what James > Governer has coined "Declarative Living" > (http://del.icio.us/JamesGovernor/declarativeliving) -- I think I'm > gonna attempt to completely write this document in the open. The problem > is, the technology to do this properly doesn't exist on opensolaris.org > yet, so any suggestions? Off the top of my head, I'm familiar with > jotspot.com and the genuix.org Wiki... I can help out with the genunix wiki. I have posted a small article on how to publish articles in the wiki: http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/How_To_Publish_Articles You can add an article by just creating a new page and adding the "{{draft}}" keyword at the top of the page. This is still a prototype. We could flesh out the details as we go through the process of developing the document. Venky. From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Fri Mar 24 00:24:09 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 00:24:09 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Aritcle idea, "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4423ACA9.8060604@sun.com> Eric Boutilier wrote: > Thanks Jim and Nacho (and previously offline, Bill R. and Al H.) for > your +1s to turn this into an article. > > So because I'm really interested in "Web2.0" concepts -- i.e. what James > Governer has coined "Declarative Living" > (http://del.icio.us/JamesGovernor/declarativeliving) -- I think I'm > gonna attempt to completely write this document in the open. The problem > is, the technology to do this properly doesn't exist on opensolaris.org > yet, so any suggestions? Off the top of my head, I'm familiar with > jotspot.com and the genuix.org Wiki... I'm playing around with jotspot. Seems like a nice little collaborative tool. I think it's up to each writer to choose his/her method of production. Some may want to use wikis, some may want to have email conversations and draft from threads, some may want to use blogs and draft from comments, and some may want to just write alone on their own private hard drives and then issue a draft for public review. Personally, I could care less. It's all fine. I think we here in this project should be flexible enough in the drafting process to encourage each person to do his/her thing, but we have one hard rule: all articles offered via this project are peer reviewed before being published on OpenSolaris and that review happens right here. To me, that's the most important element. Other than that, let's explore multiple means of production and see if we can spot some trends. Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Fri Mar 24 00:25:54 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 00:25:54 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Interviews and Profiles In-Reply-To: References: <4421A6C7.5020000@sun.com> <4421E052.4070503@sun.com> Message-ID: <4423AD12.5040407@sun.com> Ignacio Marambio Cat?n wrote: > On 3/22/06, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >>Bill Rushmore wrote: >> >>>On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Jim Grisanzio wrote: >>> >>>>>>Do you have any suggestions as to people in the community who would be >>>>good to profile? Who is doing good work out there that would make an >>>>interesting Q&A profile? Also, who is doing good work that we don't hear >>> >>>>from every day on the lists? Some of the most interesting people are >>> >>>>those how are flying under the radar. > > > Jim, we could profile... hmm... you :) It's possible, sure. Although, I'm sure there are others far more interesting. :) Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Fri Mar 24 00:28:49 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 00:28:49 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Article Idea Message-ID: <4423ADC1.4060609@sun.com> I'm forwarding part of this thread: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=6964&tstart=0 Bill suggested that David's situation may make a good article. David seems to agree. I do, too. So, I thought you'd like to see some of David's thoughts and my ideas for a piece. Jim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [nfs-discuss] New to ZFS/NFS - Question concerning permissions Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:25:15 -0800 From: Jim Grisanzio To: David J. Orman CC: bill at rushmores.net, nfs-discuss at opensolaris.org David ... cool. Let's do it. I'll forward your mail to the content project alias ( content-discuss at opensolaris.org ) and we can talk about processes, review, etc. Anyone interested in participating, please feel free to jump in. I think a piece like this would take some time, it would probably need some artwork, and it would certainly need technical review. Jim David J. Orman wrote: > Jim, > > It sounds like a wonderful idea, maybe it would also help other people see > the advantages that using Sun systems could bring them. I have a lot of > information I can share concerning my movement forward in this area, from > the first mention of Solaris to me, until the present. Everything from > failures to successes, and plenty of surprises too. > > I'd be happy to help out however I could, with the amount of free > "support" I've gotten from the OSOL community for my *commercial* venture, > I feel a sense of responsibility to give back at least as much as I have > recieved! > > That is the beauty of an open development model where the engineers who > are normally delegated to cubicals with no social interaction are let lose > with the people who use the software/hardware they write. :) There is a > symbiotic relationship between the producers and the consumers, and they > both influence each other in a positive fashion. The producers learn what > the consumers *really* want, and the consumers learn how to use what the > producers created to the full extent. No longer are you reliant on surveys > and other flawed statistical analysis to get an accurate picture of your > customer base. > > Solaris has a lot going for it now, and especially when S10U2 hits the > shelves it's going to be a solution that solves a LOT of headaches. With > the SarbOx requirements coming due soon enough, storage needs will be at > an all-time high. Data integrity and validity will as well. ZFS makes a > perfect solution for this, and you can have it for *free*. Maybe a simple > case study will be enough to show companies how this can impact their > business in a positive fashion. Just a few thousand dollars worth of Sun > equipment later and they to can be on their way to sleeping peacefully at > night when the SarbOx enforcers come knocking on people's doors. I > wouldn't want to be the tech guy at a company who doesn't have something > like ZFS handling their data store. > > I'm a long-time FreeBSD user, and prior to that a Linux guy. I came upon > Solaris by accident, and after my initial trials I was very unimpressed. A > lot of that has changed in the recent past. Like most things, it takes > some effort to see the advantages when you don't really even know what to > look for. Maybe a nice writeup of real-world planning, analysis, and > implementation could help people save a lot of time. :) > > Anyways, I think we are deviating from the original topic, so if you'd > like to continue this further, direct me to the list or contact me > directly via this email address. > > Cheers, > David > > PS - Cool, I've never been in a blog before! I feel special! > > >>Hello, David. >> >>Bill Rushmore pointed this out to me in the Content Project today, and I >>think it could make an interesting Case Study -- need, evaluation, >>implemention, Sun systems, Solaris and OpenSolaris community elements, >>the whole thing. Would you be interested in considering that for an >>article? >> >>We have a Content Project going here: >>http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/content/ >> >>And we are starting to post peer-reviewed articles here: >>http://www.opensolaris.org/os/articles/ >> >>Perhaps this could be a Case Study that you write. Perhaps it's >>something that someone else writes by interviewing you and digs into the >>technology issues, etc. I see Peter Harvey blogged about it, so maybe >>he'd be interested in writing a longer article about the system you end >>up building and how you built it. >> >>We can talk about the specifics of the piece later, but I just wanted to >>float the idea to you guys to see if there was some interest. >> >>Jim >>-- >>Jim Grisanzio, Community Manager, OpenSolaris >>http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris/ From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Fri Mar 24 00:32:01 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 00:32:01 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Aritcle idea, "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <4423361D.4030804@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <4423361D.4030804@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4423AE81.6050106@sun.com> Eric Boutilier wrote: > Here's my initial rough outline. --Eric > > I. Download CD 1 and CD 2 images; burn CD 1; put CD 2 image on a > separate networked box and ensure the ftp server (daemon) is enabled on it. > > II. Install smallest cluster, SUNWCrnet, on the target box using CD 1. > > III. Eject CD 1; reboot; re-insert and mount CD 1 > > IV. Install SUNWbip from CD 1 (contains ftp client) > > V. Copy CD 2 image over using ftp; mount the image using lofiadm method > > VI. Install required packages from the X consolidation (SUNWxsvc, > SUNWxorg-*, ...) and their dependencies. > > Required packages rough-draft: > http://blogs.sun.com/roller/resources/eric_boutilier/neededbyX.txt > > VII. Create or copy over a suitable xorg.conf file and enable the Xorg X > server using kdmconfig. > > VIII. Install and configure the update system (pkg-get) and wget from > Blastwave. > > IX. Call 'pkg-get -i xfce' (which installs the Xfce desktop environment > and all it's dependencies from CSW/blastwave). Nice outline. Will you include some screen shots or is that not necessary for this? Jim From ormandj at corenode.com Fri Mar 24 01:14:47 2006 From: ormandj at corenode.com (David J. Orman) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:14:47 -1000 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Article Idea In-Reply-To: <4423ADC1.4060609@sun.com> References: <4423ADC1.4060609@sun.com> Message-ID: <0247FD1E-7AB9-4CC4-9926-1DF532ED8C67@corenode.com> I'm here as well, so please feel free to communicate with me via this list so we can keep everything documented and get multiple opinions/ feedback/input/etc. :) David PS - I need to make clear now before a lot of time gets invested that we are still in the evaluation phase of a _lot_ of things. We are truly a "fledgling" data center as described on our site. There are a lot of things still being ironed out. My facility is still far from being finished! We're just trying to start with the right technology from the beginning, and design our environment around the "stuff" that makes everything go. Not try to shoehorn the "stuff" into a poorly designed environment. We've got a 12,000 sq foot underground facility, all concrete walls. We're building it out by ourselves, and with funding from our day-jobs. We don't have millions of dollars, we don't have paid construction workers. Everything from sandblasting to demolition to engineering (electrical, structural, you name it) we are doing in-house. I'm a 24 year old college graduate from Dallas, I moved to Hawaii with the goal of starting a data center, as on a trip here prior to my graduation, I saw there really wasn't much in that sector in this area. Our only decent sized competitor is full, and turning away customers. The other two competitors are priced insanely high. Bandwidth is expensive in Hawaii, but not _that_ expensive. Most of the companies around here have "old" technology. Most do not have backup locations. The pre-existing data center owned by Equinix here is at/below sea level, right next to the airport. Etc etc. Just giving some background on the logic behind my coming out here. We've been in touch with a lot of potential customers (the City and County of Honolulu is coming out in April) .. I've got a very interesting auditor report on their main data center. You'll love the indoor rain gutters and "paper towel water detection system" they use in the walls. Needless to say, we've gotten a LOT of interest in our services since our publication in Pacific Business Journal. Now we're working on figuring out what we want to base all of our services on. I will go more into my exposure to Solaris/Sun later, but needless to say I ended up exploring Sun as an option. It didn't take long to very quickly realize I had something good in my hands. We've evaluated Linux (various distros), FreeBSD, and now Solaris (still in evaluation.. actually.. I'm just playing and having fun like a little kid!) Linux was turned down due to pricey support and generally ad- hoc thrown-together design (from my standpoint), as well as performance issues. It "felt" like using a duct-tape solution, not something industrial grade. That might be fine when you're running a cluster and have designed failover, but that really isn't that efficient in power/heat production. As I'm sure most of you are aware, that is the largest cost a data center has, electricity. PS - I am keeping this very short/abridged, more details can be provided as needed. FreeBSD was fairly nice. This was to be our final solution, until I decided to try out Solaris. I never really had any issues with it, it seemed more "put together" and I felt a lot more secure using it as our primary OS. We were running a solution for our needs with apache/ mysql/pgsql/postfix/dovecot/proftp. It was a pretty nasty little combination, but it worked well enough for our needs. (As a side note, we are about to start evaluating JES. My initial experience with it was terrible too, but I'm told once you wrap your head around it, it's really nice.) I then had a client come and ask me (in the past few weeks) for a backup solution price quote. I said sure, his IT guy got in contact with me and provided me requirements. 25 gigs initial storage, and growth of about 5-10 gigs a month. The thing is, they wanted daily backups for a week, weekly backups for a month, monthly backups for a year.. I got a slight headache at this point, as the client made it quite clear he was looking for an inexpensive but reliable solution. I was then informed he had a business DSL connection. Another big uh-oh. _Then_ I was informed (here's the bomb) they wanted full backups, because they wanted to easily be able to retrieve any day/week/month/ etc worth of files at any time, without *our* (my company's) intervention. I was nearly in tears trying to think of a solution that could do all of these things, and not cost the client thousands a month. That is when it dawned on me. That cool Sun feature slated for Solaris 10! What's it called? Oh yeah, ZFS. I think I remember something called snapshots, let me give it a go! What followed was about two weeks of tears trying to build a machine that would run Solaris (and not drop from the network every ten minutes.) As I said, we're funding every aspect of a data center from our pockets, blood sweat and tears, working day jobs. Needless to say, buying Sun gear was not an option for us without the assurance of a customer's pay coming in. We also did not want to take the "try a coolthreads server free for 60 days" deal, because we felt it wouldn't be fair to Sun for us to take a trial if we had absolutely no idea if it would even work for us. At the same time, we needed something to try out this fancy new ZFS filesystem. After managing to source parts that would work with Solaris (no easy feat here in Hawaii!) and getting b33 of Nevada installed, I was blown away. I needed help getting things working properly, but *without a support contract* and running on *completely unsupported off the shelf hardware* - to my amazement, Sun engineers responded to simple and basic (ignorant) mailing list posts I made. I got clear concise answers to my problems, and quite quickly! Within a day, I had the client's solution already proven technically feasible, and not only that, but INEXPENSIVELY and RELIABLY. Want backups from 03/15/06? No problem, just browse to .zfs/snapshot/031506/ and you're there. Grab whatever you need. Have fun! Us? Not wasting a ton of storage on full backups of that amount of data. Sleeping soundly at night not worrying about the data being safe. Very little equipment to manage/run the system, so low power costs. Capability to grow to as much storage as needed. Best of all, very little time invested! Literally, from question to solution, removing all time required to evaluate other solutions and source parts, was no more than 6 hours. This coming from a guy who never used Solaris before the past few months. ZFS is so intuitive, it was like a breath of fresh air. Sun engineers filled my mailbox with tips, hints, suggestions, explanations. Even suggestions on drive cages! Who do you think my first server purchase will be from? You got it - Sun. As soon as things are ironed out with this customer, we'll be picking up a nice Sun server to top that drive cage and export the ZFS share via NFS. Possibly another Sun server to handle the frontend operations. It all depends on budget, of course! This is just the start, just the core, of what we plan for the future. It's just a few days of my life, and my eye-opening to Sun. Don't even get me started on Niagra. We're looking at that now too, and realizing with the savings we'll have in power and space, we'll be competitive in price with data centers were never thought we could be, due to high bandwidth pricing in Hawaii. Not only that, but we'll be able to offer solutions nobody else can here, due to all of the innovative technologies in Solaris 10. We're starting clean, we can implement everything around the solution that best fits us. From the looks of things, that solution is Sun, and we're building our data center around that core. :) Cheers, David PS - This was just to give some background, I didn't write it with the intention of it being used directly. I can write up something more formal and concise as needed. I just thought it'd be nice to share a little more into where we stand, where we are going, and why Sun looks like our best option to get there. I'll let you all take the ball and roll it around for a bit. Feel free to shoot back any questions, suggestions, feedback - anything. I'm here to provide anything I can. :) On Mar 23, 2006, at 10:28 PM, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > I'm forwarding part of this thread: > http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=6964&tstart=0 > > Bill suggested that David's situation may make a good article. > David seems to agree. I do, too. So, I thought you'd like to see > some of David's thoughts and my ideas for a piece. > > Jim > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [nfs-discuss] New to ZFS/NFS - Question concerning > permissions > Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:25:15 -0800 > From: Jim Grisanzio > To: David J. Orman > CC: bill at rushmores.net, nfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > > David ... cool. Let's do it. I'll forward your mail to the content > project alias ( content-discuss at opensolaris.org ) and we can talk > about > processes, review, etc. Anyone interested in participating, please > feel > free to jump in. I think a piece like this would take some time, it > would probably need some artwork, and it would certainly need > technical > review. > > Jim > > > David J. Orman wrote: >> Jim, >> It sounds like a wonderful idea, maybe it would also help other >> people see >> the advantages that using Sun systems could bring them. I have a >> lot of >> information I can share concerning my movement forward in this >> area, from >> the first mention of Solaris to me, until the present. Everything >> from >> failures to successes, and plenty of surprises too. >> I'd be happy to help out however I could, with the amount of free >> "support" I've gotten from the OSOL community for my *commercial* >> venture, >> I feel a sense of responsibility to give back at least as much as >> I have >> recieved! >> That is the beauty of an open development model where the >> engineers who >> are normally delegated to cubicals with no social interaction are >> let lose >> with the people who use the software/hardware they write. :) There >> is a >> symbiotic relationship between the producers and the consumers, >> and they >> both influence each other in a positive fashion. The producers >> learn what >> the consumers *really* want, and the consumers learn how to use >> what the >> producers created to the full extent. No longer are you reliant on >> surveys >> and other flawed statistical analysis to get an accurate picture >> of your >> customer base. >> Solaris has a lot going for it now, and especially when S10U2 hits >> the >> shelves it's going to be a solution that solves a LOT of >> headaches. With >> the SarbOx requirements coming due soon enough, storage needs will >> be at >> an all-time high. Data integrity and validity will as well. ZFS >> makes a >> perfect solution for this, and you can have it for *free*. Maybe a >> simple >> case study will be enough to show companies how this can impact their >> business in a positive fashion. Just a few thousand dollars worth >> of Sun >> equipment later and they to can be on their way to sleeping >> peacefully at >> night when the SarbOx enforcers come knocking on people's doors. I >> wouldn't want to be the tech guy at a company who doesn't have >> something >> like ZFS handling their data store. >> I'm a long-time FreeBSD user, and prior to that a Linux guy. I >> came upon >> Solaris by accident, and after my initial trials I was very >> unimpressed. A >> lot of that has changed in the recent past. Like most things, it >> takes >> some effort to see the advantages when you don't really even know >> what to >> look for. Maybe a nice writeup of real-world planning, analysis, and >> implementation could help people save a lot of time. :) >> Anyways, I think we are deviating from the original topic, so if >> you'd >> like to continue this further, direct me to the list or contact me >> directly via this email address. >> Cheers, >> David >> PS - Cool, I've never been in a blog before! I feel special! > > > > > >>> Hello, David. >>> >>> Bill Rushmore pointed this out to me in the Content Project >>> today, and I >>> think it could make an interesting Case Study -- need, evaluation, >>> implemention, Sun systems, Solaris and OpenSolaris community >>> elements, >>> the whole thing. Would you be interested in considering that for an >>> article? >>> >>> We have a Content Project going here: >>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/content/ >>> >>> And we are starting to post peer-reviewed articles here: >>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/articles/ >>> >>> Perhaps this could be a Case Study that you write. Perhaps it's >>> something that someone else writes by interviewing you and digs >>> into the >>> technology issues, etc. I see Peter Harvey blogged about it, so >>> maybe >>> he'd be interested in writing a longer article about the system >>> you end >>> up building and how you built it. >>> >>> We can talk about the specifics of the piece later, but I just >>> wanted to >>> float the idea to you guys to see if there was some interest. >>> >>> Jim >>> -- >>> Jim Grisanzio, Community Manager, OpenSolaris >>> http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris/ > > > > From darkjoker at gmail.com Fri Mar 24 04:22:54 2006 From: darkjoker at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ignacio_Marambio_Cat=E1n?=) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:22:54 -0300 Subject: [content-discuss] Interviews and Profiles In-Reply-To: <4423AD12.5040407@sun.com> References: <4421A6C7.5020000@sun.com> <4421E052.4070503@sun.com> <4423AD12.5040407@sun.com> Message-ID: On 3/24/06, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Ignacio Marambio Cat?n wrote: > > > On 3/22/06, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > > >>Bill Rushmore wrote: > >> > >>>On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >>> > >>>>>>Do you have any suggestions as to people in the community who would be > >>>>good to profile? Who is doing good work out there that would make an > >>>>interesting Q&A profile? Also, who is doing good work that we don't hear > >>> > >>>>from every day on the lists? Some of the most interesting people are > >>> > >>>>those how are flying under the radar. > > > > > > Jim, we could profile... hmm... you :) > > > It's possible, sure. Although, I'm sure there are others far more > interesting. :) > Is it possible to have these done in the form of podcasts? there is nothing like a voice to stress the fact that the people being profiled are really human beings if you know what i mean. podcasts have a very personal touch nacho From ormandj at corenode.com Fri Mar 24 11:13:24 2006 From: ormandj at corenode.com (David J. Orman) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:13:24 -1000 (HST) Subject: [content-discuss] Interviews and Profiles In-Reply-To: References: <4421A6C7.5020000@sun.com> <4421E052.4070503@sun.com> <4423AD12.5040407@sun.com> Message-ID: <33287.132.160.192.10.1143227604.squirrel@mail.corenode.com> > Is it possible to have these done in the form of podcasts? there is > nothing like a voice to stress the fact that the people being profiled > are really human beings if you know what i mean. podcasts have a very > personal touch > > nacho I like the idea, although I'd maintain you keep a written version too. I personally have never listened to a podcast (and likely never will.) I'm not a talk radio person, and the whole idea rather annoys me - I can read much faster than people can speak. That being said, I know there are a lot of people who are the opposite, they prefer listening. I also agree there is surely a "human factor" involved in hearing actual voices vs. just reading words. I think you are spot on with your comment about the personal touch. So, I second nacho's opinion about podcasts, with the stipulation a transcribed copy was available for readers such as myself. :) Cheers, David PS - I'd love to see some of Sun's more "hardcore" engineers interviewed. You know the ones I'm talking about, the guys who could recite every line of code in Solaris's VM subsystem from memory. Instead of focusing on technical things, profile them as *people*. When the public gets exposed to that, they might feel a connection to the engineer in some way. This would potentially bring business Sun's way, or at least influence people to take a look at Sun. "Hey! That really smart guy who helps write Sun's software, he goes fishing every weekend like me." Or "Wow, the engineer who wrote the ldap server I'm using likes the same kind of cars as me." You get the idea. No longer will the users/purchasers feel the Sun engineers are some alien species floating in the sky writing code that descends upon the earth. They are real people, with real lives, much the same as anybody else - and they work for a company they enjoy - creating products that real people can use and benefit from. Something along those lines. :) From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Mon Mar 27 10:12:02 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:12:02 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Interviews and Profiles In-Reply-To: References: <4421A6C7.5020000@sun.com> <4421E052.4070503@sun.com> <4423AD12.5040407@sun.com> Message-ID: <44282AF2.8060601@sun.com> Ignacio Marambio Cat?n wrote: > Is it possible to have these done in the form of podcasts? there is > nothing like a voice to stress the fact that the people being profiled > are really human beings if you know what i mean. podcasts have a very > personal touch Sure. Sounds great. We can't stream right now, but we can put up the audio file for download. Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Mon Mar 27 10:34:20 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:34:20 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Interviews and Profiles In-Reply-To: <33287.132.160.192.10.1143227604.squirrel@mail.corenode.com> References: <4421A6C7.5020000@sun.com> <4421E052.4070503@sun.com> <4423AD12.5040407@sun.com> <33287.132.160.192.10.1143227604.squirrel@mail.corenode.com> Message-ID: <4428302C.3040707@sun.com> David J. Orman wrote: >>Is it possible to have these done in the form of podcasts? there is >>nothing like a voice to stress the fact that the people being profiled >>are really human beings if you know what i mean. podcasts have a very >>personal touch >> >>nacho > > I like the idea, although I'd maintain you keep a written version too. I > personally have never listened to a podcast (and likely never will.) I'm > not a talk radio person, and the whole idea rather annoys me - I can read > much faster than people can speak. True, reading is faster, but sometimes you want to listen to a podcast while doing something else, right? Multitasking. :) > That being said, I know there are a lot of people who are the opposite, > they prefer listening. I also agree there is surely a "human factor" > involved in hearing actual voices vs. just reading words. I think you are > spot on with your comment about the personal touch. > > So, I second nacho's opinion about podcasts, with the stipulation a > transcribed copy was available for readers such as myself. :) I think this would be valuable as well. In the past, I've transcribed large chunks of podcasts and blogged about it. This could be a way for someone to contribute content by transcribing audio files. Love it. > Cheers, > David > > PS - I'd love to see some of Sun's more "hardcore" engineers interviewed. Totally agree. We have many challenges around here but engineering sources for content is not one of them. > You know the ones I'm talking about, the guys who could recite every line > of code in Solaris's VM subsystem from memory. Instead of focusing on > technical things, profile them as *people*. When the public gets exposed > to that, they might feel a connection to the engineer in some way. This > would potentially bring business Sun's way, or at least influence people > to take a look at Sun. "Hey! That really smart guy who helps write Sun's > software, he goes fishing every weekend like me." Or "Wow, the engineer > who wrote the ldap server I'm using likes the same kind of cars as me." > You get the idea. No longer will the users/purchasers feel the Sun > engineers are some alien species floating in the sky writing code that > descends upon the earth. They are real people, with real lives, much the > same as anybody else - and they work for a company they enjoy - creating > products that real people can use and benefit from. Something along those > lines. :) The blogs on blogs.sun.com have helped with this, but we haven't really jumped into podcasting in a big way. We can support the files on BSC, but very few people are doing it. I see the NetBeans guys are podcasting, though. On OpenSolaris, I'd love to do something like Microsoft's Channel 9. I watch their stuff all the time, and it has value to actually see the people behind their technology. So, blogs, podcasts, videos ... we have some of this but we can do more over time. Good ideas, thanks! Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Mon Mar 27 11:16:43 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:16:43 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Article Idea In-Reply-To: <0247FD1E-7AB9-4CC4-9926-1DF532ED8C67@corenode.com> References: <4423ADC1.4060609@sun.com> <0247FD1E-7AB9-4CC4-9926-1DF532ED8C67@corenode.com> Message-ID: <44283A1B.2020304@sun.com> David J. Orman wrote: > I'm here as well, so please feel free to communicate with me via this > list so we can keep everything documented and get multiple opinions/ > feedback/input/etc. :) Welcome! We formed this project a couple of months ago to generate some content for the project -- articles, how-to's, personal accounts, interviews, Q&As, case studies, profiles, etc. Text is great, but I'd like to eventually grow into having podcasts, screen casts, and video as well. This content we produce will live all over the site, of course. Some stuff will live on the articles page, some within other communities, and some off site altogether. Personally, I'm most interested in the people that produce this technology, but others may be more interested in the technology itself. We need both, in my opinion. The efforts here are 100% community generated. Sun is not running this Content Project, in other words. Our resources are only what we as individuals bring to it. Our process for publication are designed to be as lightweight as possible, with the key being peer review. If an article is highly technical, it needs to be reviewed by the community before publication. That's the value of publishing on opensolaris.org rather than a blog or somewhere else (though those venues certainly have value but different value). > PS - I need to make clear now before a lot of time gets invested that > we are still in the evaluation phase of a _lot_ of things. We are truly > a "fledgling" data center as described on our site. There are a lot of > things still being ironed out. My facility is still far from being > finished! Cool. I think many people are in your position and by you documenting your experiences for us will help other community members. > We're just trying to start with the right technology from the > beginning, and design our environment around the "stuff" that makes > everything go. Not try to shoehorn the "stuff" into a poorly designed > environment. We've got a 12,000 sq foot underground facility, all > concrete walls. We're building it out by ourselves, and with funding > from our day-jobs. We don't have millions of dollars, we don't have > paid construction workers. Everything from sandblasting to demolition > to engineering (electrical, structural, you name it) we are doing > in-house. *That* is why this story is interesting. > I'm a 24 year old college graduate from Dallas, Now I feel sick. :) I *used* to be 24. :) > I moved to Hawaii with > the goal of starting a data center, Back two or so years ago when we were planning OpenSolaris, we listed many reasons why we wanted to build a community. Engaging entrepreneurs was very high on the list. > as on a trip here prior to my > graduation, I saw there really wasn't much in that sector in this area. > Our only decent sized competitor is full, and turning away customers. > The other two competitors are priced insanely high. Bandwidth is > expensive in Hawaii, but not _that_ expensive. > > Most of the companies around here have "old" technology. Most do not > have backup locations. The pre-existing data center owned by Equinix > here is at/below sea level, right next to the airport. Etc etc. Just > giving some background on the logic behind my coming out here. > > We've been in touch with a lot of potential customers (the City and > County of Honolulu is coming out in April) .. I've got a very > interesting auditor report on their main data center. You'll love the > indoor rain gutters and "paper towel water detection system" they use > in the walls. > > Needless to say, we've gotten a LOT of interest in our services since > our publication in Pacific Business Journal. Now we're working on > figuring out what we want to base all of our services on. I will go > more into my exposure to Solaris/Sun later, but needless to say I ended > up exploring Sun as an option. It didn't take long to very quickly > realize I had something good in my hands. We've evaluated Linux > (various distros), FreeBSD, and now Solaris (still in evaluation.. > actually.. I'm just playing and having fun like a little kid!) Linux > was turned down due to pricey support and generally ad- hoc > thrown-together design (from my standpoint), as well as performance > issues. It "felt" like using a duct-tape solution, not something > industrial grade. That might be fine when you're running a cluster and > have designed failover, but that really isn't that efficient in > power/heat production. As I'm sure most of you are aware, that is the > largest cost a data center has, electricity. PS - I am keeping this > very short/abridged, more details can be provided as needed. > > FreeBSD was fairly nice. This was to be our final solution, until I > decided to try out Solaris. I never really had any issues with it, it > seemed more "put together" and I felt a lot more secure using it as our > primary OS. We were running a solution for our needs with apache/ > mysql/pgsql/postfix/dovecot/proftp. It was a pretty nasty little > combination, but it worked well enough for our needs. (As a side note, > we are about to start evaluating JES. My initial experience with it was > terrible too, but I'm told once you wrap your head around it, it's > really nice.) > > I then had a client come and ask me (in the past few weeks) for a > backup solution price quote. I said sure, his IT guy got in contact > with me and provided me requirements. 25 gigs initial storage, and > growth of about 5-10 gigs a month. The thing is, they wanted daily > backups for a week, weekly backups for a month, monthly backups for a > year.. > > I got a slight headache at this point, as the client made it quite > clear he was looking for an inexpensive but reliable solution. I was > then informed he had a business DSL connection. Another big uh-oh. > _Then_ I was informed (here's the bomb) they wanted full backups, > because they wanted to easily be able to retrieve any day/week/month/ > etc worth of files at any time, without *our* (my company's) > intervention. I was nearly in tears trying to think of a solution that > could do all of these things, and not cost the client thousands a month. > > That is when it dawned on me. That cool Sun feature slated for Solaris > 10! What's it called? Oh yeah, ZFS. I think I remember something called > snapshots, let me give it a go! > > What followed was about two weeks of tears trying to build a machine > that would run Solaris (and not drop from the network every ten > minutes.) As I said, we're funding every aspect of a data center from > our pockets, blood sweat and tears, working day jobs. Needless to say, > buying Sun gear was not an option for us without the assurance of a > customer's pay coming in. We also did not want to take the "try a > coolthreads server free for 60 days" deal, because we felt it wouldn't > be fair to Sun for us to take a trial if we had absolutely no idea if > it would even work for us. At the same time, we needed something to try > out this fancy new ZFS filesystem. After managing to source parts that > would work with Solaris (no easy feat here in Hawaii!) and getting b33 > of Nevada installed, I was blown away. > > I needed help getting things working properly, but *without a support > contract* and running on *completely unsupported off the shelf > hardware* - to my amazement, Sun engineers responded to simple and > basic (ignorant) mailing list posts I made. I got clear concise answers > to my problems, and quite quickly! Within a day, I had the client's > solution already proven technically feasible, and not only that, but > INEXPENSIVELY and RELIABLY. Want backups from 03/15/06? No problem, > just browse to .zfs/snapshot/031506/ and you're there. Grab whatever > you need. Have fun! > > Us? Not wasting a ton of storage on full backups of that amount of > data. Sleeping soundly at night not worrying about the data being safe. > Very little equipment to manage/run the system, so low power costs. > Capability to grow to as much storage as needed. Best of all, very > little time invested! Literally, from question to solution, removing > all time required to evaluate other solutions and source parts, was no > more than 6 hours. This coming from a guy who never used Solaris before > the past few months. ZFS is so intuitive, it was like a breath of fresh > air. Sun engineers filled my mailbox with tips, hints, suggestions, > explanations. Even suggestions on drive cages! > > Who do you think my first server purchase will be from? You got it - > Sun. As soon as things are ironed out with this customer, we'll be > picking up a nice Sun server to top that drive cage and export the ZFS > share via NFS. Possibly another Sun server to handle the frontend > operations. It all depends on budget, of course! This is just the > start, just the core, of what we plan for the future. It's just a few > days of my life, and my eye-opening to Sun. > > Don't even get me started on Niagra. We're looking at that now too, and > realizing with the savings we'll have in power and space, we'll be > competitive in price with data centers were never thought we could be, > due to high bandwidth pricing in Hawaii. > > Not only that, but we'll be able to offer solutions nobody else can > here, due to all of the innovative technologies in Solaris 10. We're > starting clean, we can implement everything around the solution that > best fits us. From the looks of things, that solution is Sun, and we're > building our data center around that core. :) > > Cheers, > David > > PS - This was just to give some background, I didn't write it with the > intention of it being used directly. I can write up something more > formal and concise as needed. I just thought it'd be nice to share a > little more into where we stand, where we are going, and why Sun looks > like our best option to get there. I'll let you all take the ball and > roll it around for a bit. Feel free to shoot back any questions, > suggestions, feedback - anything. I'm here to provide anything I can. :) Damn, this is excellent. I'm not a technologist so I have zero feedback on the specifics of what you are putting together. Over time, people on this list and on the discuss and other lists will offer more technical feedback. I'm interested in the initiative itself, in how you did it, why you did it, the successes and failures, the challenges, the financing -- the human aspects of the business, basically. So, we need to figure out a mechanism of producing this document or series of documents. I like your writing style, so I think you need to write some or most of this, but I'd also like you to consider someone interviewing you as well. The reason is this: the information generated when people write is many times different (yet complementary) to the information generated when they are interviewed. Since you are in the evaluation phase of your operation, you have time to map out a series of articles. How about this for a suggestion: a general overview article to set the stage for the case study, then two or three articles to dig down into the technology itself. Maybe one is on the technology, one is one the business issues, customer issues, etc. In these supplemental pieces, you dig down very deeply. Then, to support all that, someone interviews you and does a Q&A. You just relax and answer questions and let things flow wherever they go. You can write this stuff and post drafts on the Content Project. An outline should probably be scratched out first, but please feel to be as informal as you like. When you are ready for a formal review, we'll post the draft(s) and call for review on the specific technologies you mention. Then you update your draft as needed and the reviewers are credited as contributors as well. The more detailed the article is, the more review it should have so it hold ups up over time. Your experience is yours, of course, but the articulation of specific technologies being reviewed would be valuable to the community. Now, the Q&A would require a lot less review, of course. We'll need to consider each one individually. If you choose to do something like this, we can roll it out over time. Or if you are more comfortable putting it all in one article, that's fine too. I'd love to hear your opinion and the opinions of others. Once the content is generated, however, we can all blog about it and draw attention to it and I'm sure more conversations will start as a result. Just some ideas ..... > On Mar 23, 2006, at 10:28 PM, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >> I'm forwarding part of this thread: >> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=6964&tstart=0 >> >> Bill suggested that David's situation may make a good article. David >> seems to agree. I do, too. So, I thought you'd like to see some of >> David's thoughts and my ideas for a piece. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [nfs-discuss] New to ZFS/NFS - Question concerning >> permissions >> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:25:15 -0800 >> From: Jim Grisanzio >> To: David J. Orman >> CC: bill at rushmores.net, nfs-discuss at opensolaris.org >> >> David ... cool. Let's do it. I'll forward your mail to the content >> project alias ( content-discuss at opensolaris.org ) and we can talk about >> processes, review, etc. Anyone interested in participating, please feel >> free to jump in. I think a piece like this would take some time, it >> would probably need some artwork, and it would certainly need technical >> review. >> >> Jim >> >> >> David J. Orman wrote: >> >>> Jim, >>> It sounds like a wonderful idea, maybe it would also help other >>> people see >>> the advantages that using Sun systems could bring them. I have a lot of >>> information I can share concerning my movement forward in this area, >>> from >>> the first mention of Solaris to me, until the present. Everything from >>> failures to successes, and plenty of surprises too. >>> I'd be happy to help out however I could, with the amount of free >>> "support" I've gotten from the OSOL community for my *commercial* >>> venture, >>> I feel a sense of responsibility to give back at least as much as I >>> have >>> recieved! >>> That is the beauty of an open development model where the engineers who >>> are normally delegated to cubicals with no social interaction are >>> let lose >>> with the people who use the software/hardware they write. :) There is a >>> symbiotic relationship between the producers and the consumers, and >>> they >>> both influence each other in a positive fashion. The producers learn >>> what >>> the consumers *really* want, and the consumers learn how to use what >>> the >>> producers created to the full extent. No longer are you reliant on >>> surveys >>> and other flawed statistical analysis to get an accurate picture of >>> your >>> customer base. >>> Solaris has a lot going for it now, and especially when S10U2 hits the >>> shelves it's going to be a solution that solves a LOT of headaches. >>> With >>> the SarbOx requirements coming due soon enough, storage needs will >>> be at >>> an all-time high. Data integrity and validity will as well. ZFS makes a >>> perfect solution for this, and you can have it for *free*. Maybe a >>> simple >>> case study will be enough to show companies how this can impact their >>> business in a positive fashion. Just a few thousand dollars worth of >>> Sun >>> equipment later and they to can be on their way to sleeping >>> peacefully at >>> night when the SarbOx enforcers come knocking on people's doors. I >>> wouldn't want to be the tech guy at a company who doesn't have >>> something >>> like ZFS handling their data store. >>> I'm a long-time FreeBSD user, and prior to that a Linux guy. I came >>> upon >>> Solaris by accident, and after my initial trials I was very >>> unimpressed. A >>> lot of that has changed in the recent past. Like most things, it takes >>> some effort to see the advantages when you don't really even know >>> what to >>> look for. Maybe a nice writeup of real-world planning, analysis, and >>> implementation could help people save a lot of time. :) >>> Anyways, I think we are deviating from the original topic, so if you'd >>> like to continue this further, direct me to the list or contact me >>> directly via this email address. >>> Cheers, >>> David >>> PS - Cool, I've never been in a blog before! I feel special! >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> Hello, David. >>>> >>>> Bill Rushmore pointed this out to me in the Content Project today, >>>> and I >>>> think it could make an interesting Case Study -- need, evaluation, >>>> implemention, Sun systems, Solaris and OpenSolaris community elements, >>>> the whole thing. Would you be interested in considering that for an >>>> article? >>>> >>>> We have a Content Project going here: >>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/content/ >>>> >>>> And we are starting to post peer-reviewed articles here: >>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/articles/ >>>> >>>> Perhaps this could be a Case Study that you write. Perhaps it's >>>> something that someone else writes by interviewing you and digs >>>> into the >>>> technology issues, etc. I see Peter Harvey blogged about it, so maybe >>>> he'd be interested in writing a longer article about the system you >>>> end >>>> up building and how you built it. >>>> >>>> We can talk about the specifics of the piece later, but I just >>>> wanted to >>>> float the idea to you guys to see if there was some interest. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> -- >>>> Jim Grisanzio, Community Manager, OpenSolaris >>>> http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris/ >> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > content-discuss mailing list > content-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/content-discuss From venky.tv at sun.com Tue Mar 28 08:24:49 2006 From: venky.tv at sun.com (Venky) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:54:49 +0530 Subject: [content-discuss] OpenSolaris on VMWare article on the wiki Message-ID: <20060328162449.GB15514@india.sun.com> Have published Bill Rushmore's article on installing OpenSolaris on VMWare on the genunix wiki. http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/OpenSolaris_on_VMWare Was trying this out to see how the wiki method of developing content would work. Right now, the article links back to the original article on opensolaris.org and also has a discussion page where people can post their comments. Thanks Bill for allowing me to publish this article. Feedback welcome, Venky. From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Tue Mar 28 11:06:27 2006 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:06:27 -0600 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Aritcle idea, "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <44298933.90205@Sun.COM> OK, it looks like the Genunix wiki is the way to go... Eric From bill at rushmores.net Tue Mar 28 16:35:48 2006 From: bill at rushmores.net (Bill Rushmore) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:35:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [content-discuss] OpenSolaris on VMWare article on the wiki In-Reply-To: <20060328162449.GB15514@india.sun.com> References: <20060328162449.GB15514@india.sun.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Mar 2006, Venky wrote: > Thanks Bill for allowing me to publish this article. You are welcome. Thank you for publishing my article on the wiki! Bill rushmores.net From allenhans at gmail.com Thu Mar 30 19:54:02 2006 From: allenhans at gmail.com (Allen) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:54:02 PST Subject: [content-discuss] Why you should submit your articles now? Message-ID: <21091939.1143777281744.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> Articles are becoming a mainstream way of advertising for websites. Business owners have discovered that submitting articles to article directories has many benefits for their business. Writing a good, solid article and submitting it to an article directory like www.submityourarticlesnow.com that offers much more than the typical advertising campaign. It will also help them to become established as an expert in their field. Article directories supply articles to a variety of web site owners and an article submitted could be used by many different website owners providing the business with many marketing outlets. articles directories allow writers to include their name, business name and information. This allows anyone who reads the article to quickly access their website. Articles are a great form of free advertising that take a small effort to set up and distribute. Article directories are a great way to get a business recognized. A business owner who seems informed about their business and their customers will get a boost in sales. People like to buy from someone who knows what they are doing. Writing articles lets customers know the business owner is doing more than selling a product, they are selling a product they understand and believe in. And I think the most easy way to get free traffic on your website is to submit your own written articles on different websites. Visitors daily read new articles and are happy to visit author's website. I do the same and i am getting much better traffic than any other promotional method. You can submit your articles in the link below: ArticleSubmissions.com - http://www.articlesubmissions.com Ezine Articles - http://www.ezinearticles.com Createonlinebusiness.com - http://www.createonlinebusiness.com Web Host Industry Review - http://www.thewhir.com/find/articlecentral Submit your Articles now - http://www.submityourarticlesnow.com Common Connections - http://www.commonconnections.com Jogena's - http://www.jogena.com isnare.com - http://www.isnare.com ArticleWarehouse - http://www.articlewarehouse.com AuthorConnection.com - http://www.authorconnection.com GoArticles.com - http://www.goarticles.com BusinessToolchest.com - http://www.businesstoolchest.com Buzzle.com - http://www.buzzle.com Articles Factory - http://www.articlesfactory.com Connectionteam.com - http://www.connectionteam.com Constant Content - http://www.constant-content.com Article Alley - http://www.articlealley.com Digital Women.com - http://www.digital-women.com/submitarticle.htm Home-Business-Directory.com - http://www.home-business-directory.com isnare.com - http://www.isnare.com/ Article Finders - http://www.articlefinders.com Organic-Rankings.com - http://www.organic-rankings.com Amazines - http://www.amazines.com upromote.com - http://www.upromote.com The Warrior Forum - http://www.warriorforum.com/forum Article City - http://www.articlecity.com Article Planet - http://www.article-planet.com Artima Developer - http://www.artima.com/index.jsp Silverfish Longboarding - http://silverfishlongboarding.com Bonsai Talk - http://www.bonsaitalk.com Stardeveloper - http://www.stardeveloper.com This message posted from opensolaris.org From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Mar 30 22:39:59 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:39:59 -0800 Subject: [content-discuss] Why you should submit your articles now? In-Reply-To: <21091939.1143777281744.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> References: <21091939.1143777281744.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> Message-ID: <442CCEBF.2060009@sun.com> Sorry for this spam. I toasted the user account. Jim From ormandj at corenode.com Fri Mar 31 00:18:17 2006 From: ormandj at corenode.com (David J. Orman) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:18:17 -1000 Subject: [content-discuss] Why you should submit your articles now? In-Reply-To: <442CCEBF.2060009@sun.com> References: <21091939.1143777281744.JavaMail.suncom@oss1> <442CCEBF.2060009@sun.com> Message-ID: <7FEB154E-70D5-4A4A-B8BE-996893FF5C82@corenode.com> NP. It happens. :) Thanks for the quick response! That's what makes all the difference. David On Mar 30, 2006, at 8:39 PM, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Sorry for this spam. I toasted the user account. > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > content-discuss mailing list > content-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/content-discuss From ormandj at corenode.com Fri Mar 31 00:24:29 2006 From: ormandj at corenode.com (David J. Orman) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:24:29 -1000 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Article Idea In-Reply-To: <44283A1B.2020304@sun.com> References: <4423ADC1.4060609@sun.com> <0247FD1E-7AB9-4CC4-9926-1DF532ED8C67@corenode.com> <44283A1B.2020304@sun.com> Message-ID: Jim, I just wanted to follow up and say I agreed with all that you said. I've been extremely busy so haven't had time to write an appropriate response, but rest assured - I will. I think your idea of multiple articles makes perfect sense, and I am inclined to take this route. I'm glad you like my method of writing, and I will be more than happy to dedicate time into providing you with GOOD write-ups. I'd rate that short blurb of mine as a 2 or 3 at most, it was my fingers flying as my mind ran rampant, there was no thought given to actual delivery and composition. ;) Actually, there might be something said for that. I'd like to combine the two. Proper English + spur of the moment thought. As to the interview, I'd be more than happy to take that on. Your completely correct in saying it will bring added value to things. My perspective + an outside perspective == closer to the truth. That's what I hope your goal is, and I know what my goal is. Providing everyone with information that truly benefits them and helps them in their day to day operations. I will elaborate more as I have time - it's 2223 here now and I wake in 4 hours and 37 minutes, so bedtime for me! Cheers, David On Mar 27, 2006, at 9:16 AM, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > David J. Orman wrote: >> I'm here as well, so please feel free to communicate with me via >> this list so we can keep everything documented and get multiple >> opinions/ feedback/input/etc. :) > > Welcome! We formed this project a couple of months ago to generate > some content for the project -- articles, how-to's, personal > accounts, interviews, Q&As, case studies, profiles, etc. Text is > great, but I'd like to eventually grow into having podcasts, screen > casts, and video as well. This content we produce will live all > over the site, of course. Some stuff will live on the articles > page, some within other communities, and some off site altogether. > Personally, I'm most interested in the people that produce this > technology, but others may be more interested in the technology > itself. We need both, in my opinion. > > The efforts here are 100% community generated. Sun is not running > this Content Project, in other words. Our resources are only what > we as individuals bring to it. Our process for publication are > designed to be as lightweight as possible, with the key being peer > review. If an article is highly technical, it needs to be reviewed > by the community before publication. That's the value of publishing > on opensolaris.org rather than a blog or somewhere else (though > those venues certainly have value but different value). > >> PS - I need to make clear now before a lot of time gets invested >> that we are still in the evaluation phase of a _lot_ of things. >> We are truly a "fledgling" data center as described on our site. >> There are a lot of things still being ironed out. My facility is >> still far from being finished! > > Cool. I think many people are in your position and by you > documenting your experiences for us will help other community members. > >> We're just trying to start with the right technology from the >> beginning, and design our environment around the "stuff" that >> makes everything go. Not try to shoehorn the "stuff" into a >> poorly designed environment. We've got a 12,000 sq foot >> underground facility, all concrete walls. We're building it out >> by ourselves, and with funding from our day-jobs. We don't have >> millions of dollars, we don't have paid construction workers. >> Everything from sandblasting to demolition to engineering >> (electrical, structural, you name it) we are doing in-house. > > *That* is why this story is interesting. > >> I'm a 24 year old college graduate from Dallas, > > Now I feel sick. :) I *used* to be 24. :) > >> I moved to Hawaii with the goal of starting a data center, > > Back two or so years ago when we were planning OpenSolaris, we > listed many reasons why we wanted to build a community. Engaging > entrepreneurs was very high on the list. > >> as on a trip here prior to my graduation, I saw there really >> wasn't much in that sector in this area. Our only decent sized >> competitor is full, and turning away customers. The other two >> competitors are priced insanely high. Bandwidth is expensive in >> Hawaii, but not _that_ expensive. >> Most of the companies around here have "old" technology. Most do >> not have backup locations. The pre-existing data center owned by >> Equinix here is at/below sea level, right next to the airport. >> Etc etc. Just giving some background on the logic behind my >> coming out here. >> We've been in touch with a lot of potential customers (the City >> and County of Honolulu is coming out in April) .. I've got a >> very interesting auditor report on their main data center. You'll >> love the indoor rain gutters and "paper towel water detection >> system" they use in the walls. >> Needless to say, we've gotten a LOT of interest in our services >> since our publication in Pacific Business Journal. Now we're >> working on figuring out what we want to base all of our services >> on. I will go more into my exposure to Solaris/Sun later, but >> needless to say I ended up exploring Sun as an option. It didn't >> take long to very quickly realize I had something good in my >> hands. We've evaluated Linux (various distros), FreeBSD, and now >> Solaris (still in evaluation.. actually.. I'm just playing and >> having fun like a little kid!) Linux was turned down due to >> pricey support and generally ad- hoc thrown-together design (from >> my standpoint), as well as performance issues. It "felt" like >> using a duct-tape solution, not something industrial grade. That >> might be fine when you're running a cluster and have designed >> failover, but that really isn't that efficient in power/heat >> production. As I'm sure most of you are aware, that is the >> largest cost a data center has, electricity. PS - I am keeping >> this very short/abridged, more details can be provided as needed. >> FreeBSD was fairly nice. This was to be our final solution, until >> I decided to try out Solaris. I never really had any issues with >> it, it seemed more "put together" and I felt a lot more secure >> using it as our primary OS. We were running a solution for our >> needs with apache/ mysql/pgsql/postfix/dovecot/proftp. It was a >> pretty nasty little combination, but it worked well enough for >> our needs. (As a side note, we are about to start evaluating JES. >> My initial experience with it was terrible too, but I'm told once >> you wrap your head around it, it's really nice.) >> I then had a client come and ask me (in the past few weeks) for a >> backup solution price quote. I said sure, his IT guy got in >> contact with me and provided me requirements. 25 gigs initial >> storage, and growth of about 5-10 gigs a month. The thing is, >> they wanted daily backups for a week, weekly backups for a month, >> monthly backups for a year.. >> I got a slight headache at this point, as the client made it >> quite clear he was looking for an inexpensive but reliable >> solution. I was then informed he had a business DSL connection. >> Another big uh-oh. _Then_ I was informed (here's the bomb) they >> wanted full backups, because they wanted to easily be able to >> retrieve any day/week/month/ etc worth of files at any time, >> without *our* (my company's) intervention. I was nearly in tears >> trying to think of a solution that could do all of these things, >> and not cost the client thousands a month. >> That is when it dawned on me. That cool Sun feature slated for >> Solaris 10! What's it called? Oh yeah, ZFS. I think I remember >> something called snapshots, let me give it a go! >> What followed was about two weeks of tears trying to build a >> machine that would run Solaris (and not drop from the network >> every ten minutes.) As I said, we're funding every aspect of a >> data center from our pockets, blood sweat and tears, working day >> jobs. Needless to say, buying Sun gear was not an option for us >> without the assurance of a customer's pay coming in. We also did >> not want to take the "try a coolthreads server free for 60 days" >> deal, because we felt it wouldn't be fair to Sun for us to take a >> trial if we had absolutely no idea if it would even work for us. >> At the same time, we needed something to try out this fancy new >> ZFS filesystem. After managing to source parts that would work >> with Solaris (no easy feat here in Hawaii!) and getting b33 of >> Nevada installed, I was blown away. >> I needed help getting things working properly, but *without a >> support contract* and running on *completely unsupported off the >> shelf hardware* - to my amazement, Sun engineers responded to >> simple and basic (ignorant) mailing list posts I made. I got >> clear concise answers to my problems, and quite quickly! Within a >> day, I had the client's solution already proven technically >> feasible, and not only that, but INEXPENSIVELY and RELIABLY. Want >> backups from 03/15/06? No problem, just browse to .zfs/snapshot/ >> 031506/ and you're there. Grab whatever you need. Have fun! >> Us? Not wasting a ton of storage on full backups of that amount >> of data. Sleeping soundly at night not worrying about the data >> being safe. Very little equipment to manage/run the system, so >> low power costs. Capability to grow to as much storage as needed. >> Best of all, very little time invested! Literally, from question >> to solution, removing all time required to evaluate other >> solutions and source parts, was no more than 6 hours. This coming >> from a guy who never used Solaris before the past few months. ZFS >> is so intuitive, it was like a breath of fresh air. Sun engineers >> filled my mailbox with tips, hints, suggestions, explanations. >> Even suggestions on drive cages! >> Who do you think my first server purchase will be from? You got it >> - Sun. As soon as things are ironed out with this customer, we'll >> be picking up a nice Sun server to top that drive cage and export >> the ZFS share via NFS. Possibly another Sun server to handle the >> frontend operations. It all depends on budget, of course! This is >> just the start, just the core, of what we plan for the future. >> It's just a few days of my life, and my eye-opening to Sun. >> Don't even get me started on Niagra. We're looking at that now >> too, and realizing with the savings we'll have in power and >> space, we'll be competitive in price with data centers were never >> thought we could be, due to high bandwidth pricing in Hawaii. >> Not only that, but we'll be able to offer solutions nobody else >> can here, due to all of the innovative technologies in Solaris >> 10. We're starting clean, we can implement everything around the >> solution that best fits us. From the looks of things, that >> solution is Sun, and we're building our data center around that >> core. :) >> Cheers, >> David >> PS - This was just to give some background, I didn't write it >> with the intention of it being used directly. I can write up >> something more formal and concise as needed. I just thought it'd >> be nice to share a little more into where we stand, where we are >> going, and why Sun looks like our best option to get there. I'll >> let you all take the ball and roll it around for a bit. Feel free >> to shoot back any questions, suggestions, feedback - anything. >> I'm here to provide anything I can. :) > > > > Damn, this is excellent. I'm not a technologist so I have zero > feedback on the specifics of what you are putting together. Over > time, people on this list and on the discuss and other lists will > offer more technical feedback. I'm interested in the initiative > itself, in how you did it, why you did it, the successes and > failures, the challenges, the financing -- the human aspects of the > business, basically. > > So, we need to figure out a mechanism of producing this document or > series of documents. I like your writing style, so I think you need > to write some or most of this, but I'd also like you to consider > someone interviewing you as well. The reason is this: the > information generated when people write is many times different > (yet complementary) to the information generated when they are > interviewed. > > Since you are in the evaluation phase of your operation, you have > time to map out a series of articles. How about this for a > suggestion: a general overview article to set the stage for the > case study, then two or three articles to dig down into the > technology itself. Maybe one is on the technology, one is one the > business issues, customer issues, etc. In these supplemental > pieces, you dig down very deeply. Then, to support all that, > someone interviews you and does a Q&A. You just relax and answer > questions and let things flow wherever they go. > > You can write this stuff and post drafts on the Content Project. An > outline should probably be scratched out first, but please feel to > be as informal as you like. When you are ready for a formal review, > we'll post the draft(s) and call for review on the specific > technologies you mention. Then you update your draft as needed and > the reviewers are credited as contributors as well. The more > detailed the article is, the more review it should have so it hold > ups up over time. Your experience is yours, of course, but the > articulation of specific technologies being reviewed would be > valuable to the community. Now, the Q&A would require a lot less > review, of course. We'll need to consider each one individually. > > If you choose to do something like this, we can roll it out over > time. Or if you are more comfortable putting it all in one article, > that's fine too. I'd love to hear your opinion and the opinions of > others. Once the content is generated, however, we can all blog > about it and draw attention to it and I'm sure more conversations > will start as a result. > > Just some ideas ..... > > > > > >> On Mar 23, 2006, at 10:28 PM, Jim Grisanzio wrote: >>> I'm forwarding part of this thread: >>> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=6964&tstart=0 >>> >>> Bill suggested that David's situation may make a good article. >>> David seems to agree. I do, too. So, I thought you'd like to see >>> some of David's thoughts and my ideas for a piece. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Re: [nfs-discuss] New to ZFS/NFS - Question concerning >>> permissions >>> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:25:15 -0800 >>> From: Jim Grisanzio >>> To: David J. Orman >>> CC: bill at rushmores.net, nfs-discuss at opensolaris.org >>> >>> David ... cool. Let's do it. I'll forward your mail to the content >>> project alias ( content-discuss at opensolaris.org ) and we can >>> talk about >>> processes, review, etc. Anyone interested in participating, >>> please feel >>> free to jump in. I think a piece like this would take some time, it >>> would probably need some artwork, and it would certainly need >>> technical >>> review. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> David J. Orman wrote: >>> >>>> Jim, >>>> It sounds like a wonderful idea, maybe it would also help other >>>> people see >>>> the advantages that using Sun systems could bring them. I have >>>> a lot of >>>> information I can share concerning my movement forward in this >>>> area, from >>>> the first mention of Solaris to me, until the present. >>>> Everything from >>>> failures to successes, and plenty of surprises too. >>>> I'd be happy to help out however I could, with the amount of free >>>> "support" I've gotten from the OSOL community for my >>>> *commercial* venture, >>>> I feel a sense of responsibility to give back at least as much >>>> as I have >>>> recieved! >>>> That is the beauty of an open development model where the >>>> engineers who >>>> are normally delegated to cubicals with no social interaction >>>> are let lose >>>> with the people who use the software/hardware they write. :) >>>> There is a >>>> symbiotic relationship between the producers and the consumers, >>>> and they >>>> both influence each other in a positive fashion. The producers >>>> learn what >>>> the consumers *really* want, and the consumers learn how to use >>>> what the >>>> producers created to the full extent. No longer are you reliant >>>> on surveys >>>> and other flawed statistical analysis to get an accurate >>>> picture of your >>>> customer base. >>>> Solaris has a lot going for it now, and especially when S10U2 >>>> hits the >>>> shelves it's going to be a solution that solves a LOT of >>>> headaches. With >>>> the SarbOx requirements coming due soon enough, storage needs >>>> will be at >>>> an all-time high. Data integrity and validity will as well. ZFS >>>> makes a >>>> perfect solution for this, and you can have it for *free*. Maybe >>>> a simple >>>> case study will be enough to show companies how this can impact >>>> their >>>> business in a positive fashion. Just a few thousand dollars >>>> worth of Sun >>>> equipment later and they to can be on their way to sleeping >>>> peacefully at >>>> night when the SarbOx enforcers come knocking on people's doors. I >>>> wouldn't want to be the tech guy at a company who doesn't have >>>> something >>>> like ZFS handling their data store. >>>> I'm a long-time FreeBSD user, and prior to that a Linux guy. I >>>> came upon >>>> Solaris by accident, and after my initial trials I was very >>>> unimpressed. A >>>> lot of that has changed in the recent past. Like most things, >>>> it takes >>>> some effort to see the advantages when you don't really even >>>> know what to >>>> look for. Maybe a nice writeup of real-world planning, analysis, >>>> and >>>> implementation could help people save a lot of time. :) >>>> Anyways, I think we are deviating from the original topic, so >>>> if you'd >>>> like to continue this further, direct me to the list or contact me >>>> directly via this email address. >>>> Cheers, >>>> David >>>> PS - Cool, I've never been in a blog before! I feel special! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> Hello, David. >>>>> >>>>> Bill Rushmore pointed this out to me in the Content Project >>>>> today, and I >>>>> think it could make an interesting Case Study -- need, evaluation, >>>>> implemention, Sun systems, Solaris and OpenSolaris community >>>>> elements, >>>>> the whole thing. Would you be interested in considering that >>>>> for an >>>>> article? >>>>> >>>>> We have a Content Project going here: >>>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/content/ >>>>> >>>>> And we are starting to post peer-reviewed articles here: >>>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/articles/ >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps this could be a Case Study that you write. Perhaps it's >>>>> something that someone else writes by interviewing you and >>>>> digs into the >>>>> technology issues, etc. I see Peter Harvey blogged about it, >>>>> so maybe >>>>> he'd be interested in writing a longer article about the >>>>> system you end >>>>> up building and how you built it. >>>>> >>>>> We can talk about the specifics of the piece later, but I just >>>>> wanted to >>>>> float the idea to you guys to see if there was some interest. >>>>> >>>>> Jim >>>>> -- >>>>> Jim Grisanzio, Community Manager, OpenSolaris >>>>> http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> content-discuss mailing list >> content-discuss at opensolaris.org >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/content-discuss