From moazam at unixville.com Sat May 6 01:30:05 2006 From: moazam at unixville.com (Moazam Raja) Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 01:30:05 -0700 Subject: [content-discuss] Article Idea: Solaris for Java Programmers, status? Message-ID: <9D2B6D0E-FAD1-41CB-9482-64AECF210451@unixville.com> Hi all, I noticed there was a proposal a while back on this list about a 'Solaris for Java Programmers' article. I found the content description here, https://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=7414&tstart=0 Has there been any update on this? I have a bunch of content which I've written which could be easily adapted for this article. There are numerous things which really make Solaris the best development and deployment platform for Java and much of my content makes a major point of this. Some of my content is public, and a bunch more is still sitting on my HD waiting for an update. Here are some examples of the public stuff, http://www.unixville.com/~moazam/stories/2004/05/17/ maxpermsizeAndHowItRelatesToTheOverallHeap.html http://www.unixville.com/~moazam/stories/2004/05/18/ debuggingHangsInTheJvm.html http://www.unixville.com/~moazam/stories/2004/06/17/ thePrintcompilationFlagAndHowToReadItsOutput.html http://www.unixville.com/~moazam/categories/jvmInternals/2004/06/03.html http://www.unixville.com/~moazam/categories/jvmInternals/2005/03/13.html So if there is still work being done on this, would you folks be interested in me handing over some new content? If there is no work being done on this project, please let me know and I'll go ahead and just start it. Thanks. -Moazam From bill at rushmores.net Sat May 6 06:17:10 2006 From: bill at rushmores.net (Bill Rushmore) Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 09:17:10 -0400 Subject: [content-discuss] Article Idea: Solaris for Java Programmers, status? In-Reply-To: <9D2B6D0E-FAD1-41CB-9482-64AECF210451@unixville.com> References: <9D2B6D0E-FAD1-41CB-9482-64AECF210451@unixville.com> Message-ID: <8E795CA6-BBA5-4A87-8429-1BA781036C3E@rushmores.net> Moazam, I am the guy working on the article. It is still in progress but I haven't accomplished too much recently because of some other issues. I really like what you have written so far and suggest you publish them to the Wiki, for example: http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/ Solaris_for_Java_Geeks . Your content seems a little more in depth that what I have been working on, what I have is more an overview/ advocacy. So I think your work would be a very welcome addition. Bill rushmores.net On May 6, 2006, at 4:30 AM, Moazam Raja wrote: > Hi all, I noticed there was a proposal a while back on this list > about a 'Solaris for Java Programmers' article. I found the content > description here, > > https://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=7414&tstart=0 > > Has there been any update on this? > > I have a bunch of content which I've written which could be easily > adapted for this article. There are numerous things which really > make Solaris the best development and deployment platform for Java > and much of my content makes a major point of this. Some of my > content is public, and a bunch more is still sitting on my HD > waiting for an update. Here are some examples of the public stuff, > > http://www.unixville.com/~moazam/stories/2004/05/17/ > maxpermsizeAndHowItRelatesToTheOverallHeap.html > > http://www.unixville.com/~moazam/stories/2004/05/18/ > debuggingHangsInTheJvm.html > > http://www.unixville.com/~moazam/stories/2004/06/17/ > thePrintcompilationFlagAndHowToReadItsOutput.html > > http://www.unixville.com/~moazam/categories/jvmInternals/ > 2004/06/03.html > > http://www.unixville.com/~moazam/categories/jvmInternals/ > 2005/03/13.html > > > > So if there is still work being done on this, would you folks be > interested in me handing over some new content? > > If there is no work being done on this project, please let me know > and I'll go ahead and just start it. > > Thanks. > > -Moazam > > _______________________________________________ > content-discuss mailing list > content-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/content-discuss From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Mon May 8 13:43:18 2006 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 15:43:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Article idea, "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> Message-ID: Sorry for the long (6 week!) delay on this. For background, here's the original thread: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=7047&tstart=0 I'm also cross-posting this message to appliances-discuss and sysadmin-discuss. So I did my first draft on Saturday and put it on the Genunix Wiki. Anyone is welcome to log in and changes/additions, no matter how big or small: http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/User:Ericb/GettingSmall Note, Because I think this document should leverage reuse as much as is reasonable, it will likely be a lot shorter than people (including me) may have originally expected. Q: Do really short documents that use make heavy use of external links still qualify as candidates for the Content Project? Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Mon May 8 13:50:29 2006 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 15:50:29 -0500 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Article idea, "Getting Small"? Message-ID: <445FAF15.5040806@Sun.COM> Re-sending to correct a type in the address... ------------------- Sorry for the long (6 week!) delay on this. For background, here's the original thread: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=7047&tstart=0 I'm also cross-posting this message to appliances-discuss and sysadmin-discuss. So I did my first draft on Saturday and put it on the Genunix Wiki. Anyone is welcome to log in and changes/additions, no matter how big or small: http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/User:Ericb/GettingSmall Note, Because I think this document should leverage reuse as much as is reasonable, it will likely be a lot shorter than people (including me) may have originally expected. Q: Do really short documents that use make heavy use of external links still qualify as candidates for the Content Project? Eric From bill at rushmores.net Mon May 8 13:52:36 2006 From: bill at rushmores.net (Bill Rushmore) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 16:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Article idea, "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 May 2006, Eric Boutilier wrote: > Q: Do really short documents that use > make heavy use of external links still qualify as candidates for the > Content Project? > IMHO, it sure does qualify. Quality not quanity is what is important here. Bill rushmores.net From darkjoker at gmail.com Mon May 8 13:54:03 2006 From: darkjoker at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ignacio_Marambio_Cat=E1n?=) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 17:54:03 -0300 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Article idea, "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> Message-ID: > Note, Because I think this document should leverage reuse as much as is > reasonable, it will likely be a lot shorter than people (including me) > may have originally expected. Q: Do really short documents that use > make heavy use of external links still qualify as candidates for the > Content Project? as long as the external links are stable, I think it's ok nacho From noniko at netbeans.jp Tue May 9 00:11:39 2006 From: noniko at netbeans.jp (noniko) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 16:11:39 +0900 Subject: [content-discuss] Article Idea : "Don't be Afraid of Solaris ! "(1) Message-ID: <446040AB.8020709@netbeans.jp> Hello! I'm noniko, a rookie tech writer in Japan. This is my first post to content-discuss. Yoroshiku(=please be my friends). Unfortunately, Solaris is not yet so popular in Japan. It seems people feel Solaris as unknown, special, difficult OS saying: "Solaris? Oh no, I don't understand it! I could only use Linux..." Yes, It's a big misunderstanding. Solaris is used in big servers like fridges for missions critical, at the same time you can use as a "pasokon(=PC)" at home. I wish to let people who are interested in OS other than Windows know about this. How about the article as below? *********************************************** Don't be Afraid of Solaris ! (1)What shall I do after the first login to Solaris? Install is successful and I have made the first log in to Sun Java Desktop System as root. What shall I do then?.... 1.Create a non-root user. 2.Confirm Network environment. Sure, but both are very easy using Webmin already installed! So the very first thing to do is: 1.Right-click the desktop to expand pop-up menu, select "open terminal". 2.Hit the command /usr/sfw/bin/webminsetup 3.In the setting-up program, select Solaris 10 as operating system and accept the rest defaults. 4.After completing the setting-up program, launch the Web browser. 5.Access the URL https://localhost:10000. 6.Log into Webmin so you could almost everything! ******************************************** -- noniko noniko at netbeans.jp Blogs: http://jroller.com/page/Noniko (Broken English) http://www.myblog.de/noniko (Schlechtes Deutsch) From bill at rushmores.net Tue May 9 05:49:34 2006 From: bill at rushmores.net (Bill Rushmore) Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 08:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [content-discuss] Article Idea : "Don't be Afraid of Solaris ! "(1) In-Reply-To: <446040AB.8020709@netbeans.jp> References: <446040AB.8020709@netbeans.jp> Message-ID: Noniko, Kanishiwa. This is an excellent idea! I would think this would be a great article for other languages as well since this is a problem that isn't limited to only Japan. Bill rushmores.net On Tue, 9 May 2006, noniko wrote: > Hello! I'm noniko, a rookie tech writer in Japan. > This is my first post to content-discuss. Yoroshiku(=please be my friends). > > Unfortunately, Solaris is not yet so popular in Japan. > It seems people feel Solaris as unknown, special, difficult OS saying: > "Solaris? Oh no, I don't understand it! I could only use Linux..." > > Yes, It's a big misunderstanding. Solaris is used in big servers like > fridges for missions critical, at the same time you can use as a > "pasokon(=PC)" at home. > > I wish to let people who are interested in OS other than Windows know > about this. How about the article as below? > > *********************************************** > Don't be Afraid of Solaris ! (1)What shall I do after the first login to > Solaris? > > Install is successful and I have made the first log in to Sun Java > Desktop System as root. > What shall I do then?.... > > 1.Create a non-root user. > 2.Confirm Network environment. > > Sure, but both are very easy using Webmin already installed! So the very > first thing to do is: > > 1.Right-click the desktop to expand pop-up menu, select "open terminal". > 2.Hit the command > /usr/sfw/bin/webminsetup > 3.In the setting-up program, select Solaris 10 as operating system and > accept the rest defaults. > 4.After completing the setting-up program, launch the Web browser. > 5.Access the URL https://localhost:10000. > 6.Log into Webmin so you could almost everything! > > ******************************************** > -- > noniko > noniko at netbeans.jp > > Blogs: > http://jroller.com/page/Noniko (Broken English) > http://www.myblog.de/noniko (Schlechtes Deutsch) > _______________________________________________ > content-discuss mailing list > content-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/content-discuss > From noniko at netbeans.jp Tue May 9 06:36:25 2006 From: noniko at netbeans.jp (noniko) Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 22:36:25 +0900 Subject: [content-discuss] Article Idea : "Don't be Afraid of Solaris ! "(1) In-Reply-To: References: <446040AB.8020709@netbeans.jp> Message-ID: <44609AD9.9070508@netbeans.jp> Hi, Bill Thanks so much for encouraging me! I'm preparing "Don't be Afraid of Solaris (2)". -- noniko noniko at netbeans.jp Blogs: http://jroller.com/page/Noniko (Broken English) http://www.myblog.de/noniko (Schlechtes Deutsch) From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu May 11 11:18:52 2006 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 11:18:52 -0700 Subject: [content-discuss] Article Idea : "Don't be Afraid of Solaris ! "(1) In-Reply-To: <446040AB.8020709@netbeans.jp> References: <446040AB.8020709@netbeans.jp> Message-ID: <4463800C.5050004@sun.com> noniko wrote: > Hello! I'm noniko, a rookie tech writer in Japan. > This is my first post to content-discuss. Yoroshiku(=please be my friends). Welcome. :) I'm looking forward to hearing about OpenSolaris in Japan. > Unfortunately, Solaris is not yet so popular in Japan. > It seems people feel Solaris as unknown, special, difficult OS saying: > "Solaris? Oh no, I don't understand it! I could only use Linux..." Cool. Huge opportunity for us all to engage, then. :) > Yes, It's a big misunderstanding. Solaris is used in big servers like > fridges for missions critical, at the same time you can use as a > "pasokon(=PC)" at home. > > I wish to let people who are interested in OS other than Windows know > about this. How about the article as below? > > *********************************************** > Don't be Afraid of Solaris ! (1)What shall I do after the first login to > Solaris? > > Install is successful and I have made the first log in to Sun Java > Desktop System as root. > What shall I do then?.... > > 1.Create a non-root user. > 2.Confirm Network environment. > > Sure, but both are very easy using Webmin already installed! So the very > first thing to do is: > > 1.Right-click the desktop to expand pop-up menu, select "open terminal". > 2.Hit the command > /usr/sfw/bin/webminsetup > 3.In the setting-up program, select Solaris 10 as operating system and > accept the rest defaults. > 4.After completing the setting-up program, launch the Web browser. > 5.Access the URL https://localhost:10000. > 6.Log into Webmin so you could almost everything! > > ******************************************** I really like the idea of an introductory article to Solaris if you are experiencing that people in your area are not that familiar with it. That would be valuable to us all and a great contribution. Could you potentially also cover OpenSolaris as a community in your article? For instance, if you educate someone about Solaris (installing it, using, it, configuring it, etc) that person may also be interested in having conversations with people about OpenSolaris -- such as in the sys admin community, for instance, or in any of the other communities. I'm just looking for an OpenSolaris angle to your article. Perhaps a tutorial on Solaris and then all the options available for participation with OpenSolaris as well? What do you think? Also, I'm assuming you'll write this in Japanese, right? We'll have to find a Japanese-speaking reviewer for it, but I know some of the guys at Sun Japan so that shouldn't be a problem. I'd really love to start having more languages on the Articles page, and then we can have them translated to English. Thanks for the idea, Noniko. Jim From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Mon May 15 19:40:54 2006 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 21:40:54 -0500 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> On May 8 2006, I wrote: >... For background, here's the original thread: > > http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=7047&tstart=0 > >... > > >So I did my first draft on Saturday and put it on the Genunix Wiki. >Anyone is welcome to log in and changes/additions, no matter how big or small: > > http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/User:Ericb/GettingSmall > >... > > Over the weekend I was playing with this some more... To recap, the idea of this document is twofold: a.) To make it easy to conceive custom, light-weight desktop implementations such as Xfce and Fluxbox. b.) In the process, test and document how to build stripped down, custom Solaris Express implementations such as dedicated server appliances. What hit me is that in order to be viable these days, any desktop implementation needs Firefox, and that Firefox is based on GNOME (GTK+) libraries, Glib, Pango, ATK, et al. So what does this have to do with this document? Well, in addition to the set of packages needed to get X running[1], all the packages that Firefox needs (lots of them) are also required. So here's a copy of that set. In specific, this set is intended to comprise the additional packages that Firefox depends on, but not to include any superfluous packages: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/resources/eric_boutilier/neededbyFirefox.txt The Firefox build that I used to come up with this set is this one here (the GTK2 build): http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/1.5.0.3/contrib/solaris_tar_ball/ --Eric [1] This set is documented, here: http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/User:Ericb/GettingSmall#Procedure From bart.smaalders at Sun.COM Tue May 16 10:09:23 2006 From: bart.smaalders at Sun.COM (Bart Smaalders) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:09:23 -0700 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> Eric Boutilier wrote: > > What hit me is that in order to be viable these days, any > desktop implementation needs Firefox, and that Firefox > is based on GNOME (GTK+) libraries, Glib, Pango, ATK, > et al. So what does this have to do with this document? > Well, in addition to the set of packages needed to get > X running[1], all the packages that Firefox needs (lots of > them) are also required. So here's a copy of that set. In > specific, this set is intended to comprise the additional > packages that Firefox depends on, but not to include > any superfluous packages: I'll assert w/o proof that any desktop that needs firefox & gnome isn't small, and the utility of stripping things out of a end-user desktop is minimal at best. I just installed Solaris 10 build 39 (all + oem) on a little via box. I could have used a 4G microdrive and had 500 M left over. It has staroffice, java, etc, compilers (gcc), everything that might be needed. The fact that this box has a 40G laptop drive means I have lots of space left over.... and this is a _tiny_ drive. Why minimize? -= Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts at cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Tue May 16 10:38:57 2006 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 12:38:57 -0500 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> Bart Smaalders wrote: > Eric Boutilier wrote: > >> >> What hit me is that in order to be viable these days, any >> desktop implementation needs Firefox, and that Firefox >> is based on GNOME (GTK+) libraries, Glib, Pango, ATK, >> et al. So what does this have to do with this document? >> Well, in addition to the set of packages needed to get >> X running[1], all the packages that Firefox needs (lots of >> them) are also required. So here's a copy of that set. In >> specific, this set is intended to comprise the additional >> packages that Firefox depends on, but not to include >> any superfluous packages: > > > I'll assert w/o proof that any desktop that needs firefox & > gnome isn't small... Yes, but I meant not GNOME, but rather a subset of the same GUI libraries that GNOME happens to also use. E.g. if viewed in the context of the JDS consolidation, a small subset of it. Eric From bart.smaalders at Sun.COM Tue May 16 10:44:02 2006 From: bart.smaalders at Sun.COM (Bart Smaalders) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:44:02 -0700 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> Eric Boutilier wrote: > Bart Smaalders wrote: > >> Eric Boutilier wrote: >> >>> >>> What hit me is that in order to be viable these days, any >>> desktop implementation needs Firefox, and that Firefox >>> is based on GNOME (GTK+) libraries, Glib, Pango, ATK, >>> et al. So what does this have to do with this document? >>> Well, in addition to the set of packages needed to get >>> X running[1], all the packages that Firefox needs (lots of >>> them) are also required. So here's a copy of that set. In >>> specific, this set is intended to comprise the additional >>> packages that Firefox depends on, but not to include >>> any superfluous packages: >> >> >> I'll assert w/o proof that any desktop that needs firefox & >> gnome isn't small... > > > Yes, but I meant not GNOME, but rather a subset of the same GUI > libraries that GNOME happens to also use. E.g. if viewed in the context > of the JDS consolidation, a small subset of it. > > Eric > Ok, but seriously, why minimize a user desktop? I understand if you're building a network appliance w/ limited memory or some sort of embedded controller, but desktops tend to grow... and there's nothing more irritating than hunting up and installing software you could have put there to begin with.... - Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts at cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Tue May 16 11:17:23 2006 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 13:17:23 -0500 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> Bart Smaalders wrote: > Eric Boutilier wrote: > >> Bart Smaalders wrote: >> >>> Eric Boutilier wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> What hit me is that in order to be viable these days, any >>>> desktop implementation needs Firefox, and that Firefox >>>> is based on GNOME (GTK+) libraries, Glib, Pango, ATK, >>>> et al. So what does this have to do with this document? >>>> Well, in addition to the set of packages needed to get >>>> X running[1], all the packages that Firefox needs (lots of >>>> them) are also required. So here's a copy of that set. In >>>> specific, this set is intended to comprise the additional >>>> packages that Firefox depends on, but not to include >>>> any superfluous packages: >>> >>> >>> >>> I'll assert w/o proof that any desktop that needs firefox & >>> gnome isn't small... >> >> >> >> Yes, but I meant not GNOME, but rather a subset of the same GUI >> libraries that GNOME happens to also use. E.g. if viewed in the >> context of the JDS consolidation, a small subset of it. >> >> Eric >> > > Ok, but seriously, why minimize a user desktop? > > I understand if you're building a network appliance w/ limited > memory or some sort of embedded controller, but desktops tend > to grow... and there's nothing more irritating than hunting up > and installing software you could have put there to begin > with.... > > My view is that I'm pretty sure that the _extent_ to which it could be smaller is significant enough, and that, done properly, the hunting would be no worse; therefore, I think it's worth it. The target audience are the same type of users who have made the Damn Small Linux desktop distro so popular. Eric From bill at rushmores.net Tue May 16 11:31:10 2006 From: bill at rushmores.net (Bill Rushmore) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 14:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 May 2006, Bart Smaalders wrote: > > It has staroffice, java, etc, compilers (gcc), everything > that might be needed. > > The fact that this box has a 40G laptop drive means I have > lots of space left over.... and this is a _tiny_ drive. > > Why minimize? > > -= Bart I can think of a few reasons to minimize, and it is not just space. All of that extra software can be a liability, in the sense of security. For a standard developer desktop it might not matter (I actually agree with you there) but for secure servers or kiosks it is a big deal to minimize. Why have all software that someone potetially take advantage of? The more software you have on the system the more likely one of those things has a vulnerabilty. Bill rushmores.net From sun at oryx.cc Tue May 16 11:46:58 2006 From: sun at oryx.cc (Jerry K) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 13:46:58 -0500 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [desktop-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <446A1E22.6080908@oryx.cc> The openwin desktop environment is a nice/small/lightweight desktop environment to work in. And the Linux people even used this environment for a while. Jerry K Eric Boutilier wrote: >> Lots of stuff deleted here >> > > My view is that I'm pretty sure that the _extent_ to which it could be > smaller is significant enough, and that, done properly, the hunting > would be no worse; therefore, I think it's worth it. The target audience > are the same type of users who have made the Damn Small Linux desktop > distro so popular. > > Eric > _______________________________________________ > desktop-discuss mailing list > desktop-discuss at opensolaris.org From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Tue May 16 15:03:28 2006 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 10:03:28 +1200 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [desktop-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <446A4C30.5030202@sun.com> Bart Smaalders wrote: > I just installed Solaris 10 build 39 (all + oem) on a little > via box. I could have used a 4G microdrive and had > 500 M left over. > > It has staroffice, java, etc, compilers (gcc), everything > that might be needed. > > The fact that this box has a 40G laptop drive means I have > lots of space left over.... and this is a _tiny_ drive. > > Why minimize? Because 'might be needed' is far from 'what i need right now'. It also saves you having to download 3 or 4 CDs, or 1 large DVD when you want to install Solaris. I think there's definite merit in getting the best bits of a distribution onto a single CD - look at Ubuntu, and the consequences of that for http://shipit.ubuntu.com. Solaris definitely has lessons to learn in this regard. Glynn From noniko at netbeans.jp Tue May 16 23:28:40 2006 From: noniko at netbeans.jp (noniko) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 15:28:40 +0900 Subject: [content-discuss] Article Idea : "Don't be Afraid of Solaris ! "(1) In-Reply-To: <4463800C.5050004@sun.com> References: <446040AB.8020709@netbeans.jp> <4463800C.5050004@sun.com> Message-ID: <446AC298.9050903@netbeans.jp> Hi, Jim I'm glad you are interested in my article! > Could you > potentially also cover OpenSolaris as a community in your article? For > instance, if you educate someone about Solaris (installing it, using, > it, configuring it, etc) that person may also be interested in having > conversations with people about OpenSolaris -- such as in the sys admin > community, for instance, or in any of the other communities. I'm just > looking for an OpenSolaris angle to your article. Perhaps a tutorial on > Solaris and then all the options available for participation with > OpenSolaris as well? What do you think? Yes! I'd like to proceed the article to the goal of preparing the best environment for testing Nevada and projects like BrandZ. For example, how about this?...I have started a Web page to show examples propesed here, because they might grow too large to send with e-mail. http://cropcrusher.web.infoseek.co.jp/opensolaris/mycontent.html This is how to browse home directory, launch Terminal window and Text editors more easily. It would be helpful to work on OpenSolaris products. > Also, I'm assuming you'll write this in Japanese, right? I don't mind writing in both Japanese and English, though my English should be corrected by someone ;). -- noniko noniko at netbeans.jp Blogs: http://jroller.com/page/Noniko (Broken English) http://www.myblog.de/noniko (Schlechtes Deutsch) From Joel.Buckley at Sun.COM Wed May 17 07:34:24 2006 From: Joel.Buckley at Sun.COM (Joel Buckley) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 08:34:24 -0600 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [desktop-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> Message-ID: > > Eric Boutilier wrote: > > > > Ok, but seriously, why minimize a user desktop? > > The limiting factor on SunRay2 deployment is Memory use on per User Desktop. 60 SunRay User Desktops managed on a single SunRay Server appears to be typical... The top memory consumption programs are: - Xorg - Mozilla - Firefox - Thunderbird - StarOffice - Gnome-Terminal In the target audience for SunRays, what are the primary applications utilized on SunRays? Any reductions in Memory consumption of the above applications results in a direct ability to scale SunRay User Desktops on a single SunRay Server instance. Joel. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Joel.Buckley.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 348 bytes Desc: Card for Joel Buckley URL: From Darren.Moffat at Sun.COM Wed May 17 07:39:34 2006 From: Darren.Moffat at Sun.COM (Darren J Moffat) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 15:39:34 +0100 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [desktop-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <446B35A6.7010100@Sun.COM> Joel Buckley wrote: >>> Eric Boutilier wrote: >>> >>> Ok, but seriously, why minimize a user desktop? >>> > > The limiting factor on SunRay2 deployment is Memory > use on per User Desktop. 60 SunRay User Desktops > managed on a single SunRay Server appears to be typical... > > The top memory consumption programs are: > > - Xorg > - Mozilla > - Firefox > - Thunderbird > - StarOffice > - Gnome-Terminal Assuming only a single revision of each of Mozilla/Firefox/Thunderbird in the default way they are built. That alone results in 4 copies of the NSS/NSPR libraries (one each for the apps plus the one already on the system for use by things like libldap). No sharing! -- Darren J Moffat From bart.smaalders at Sun.COM Wed May 17 09:36:47 2006 From: bart.smaalders at Sun.COM (Bart Smaalders) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:36:47 -0700 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [desktop-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <446B35A6.7010100@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> <446B35A6.7010100@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <446B511F.2050109@Sun.COM> Darren J Moffat wrote: > Joel Buckley wrote: >>>> Eric Boutilier wrote: >>>> >>>> Ok, but seriously, why minimize a user desktop? >>>> >> >> The limiting factor on SunRay2 deployment is Memory >> use on per User Desktop. 60 SunRay User Desktops >> managed on a single SunRay Server appears to be typical... >> >> The top memory consumption programs are: >> >> - Xorg >> - Mozilla >> - Firefox >> - Thunderbird >> - StarOffice >> - Gnome-Terminal > > Assuming only a single revision of each of Mozilla/Firefox/Thunderbird > in the default way they are built. That alone results in 4 copies of > the NSS/NSPR libraries (one each for the apps plus the one already on > the system for use by things like libldap). No sharing! > But if you do the math, w/ 60 users on a single machine the leverage of reducing heap consumption much outweighs that of improving library sharing between apps... If I reduce heap consumption by 5% on a machine w/ 60 instances of firefox I can easily save 100+ MB of memory... - Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts at cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed May 17 09:53:16 2006 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 11:53:16 -0500 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [desktop-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <446B54FC.7050006@Sun.COM> Joel Buckley wrote: >>>Eric Boutilier wrote: >>> >>>Ok, but seriously, why minimize a user desktop? >>> >>> >>> > >The limiting factor on SunRay2 deployment is Memory >use on per User Desktop. 60 SunRay User Desktops >managed on a single SunRay Server appears to be typical... > >The top memory consumption programs are: > >- Xorg >- Mozilla >- Firefox >- Thunderbird >- StarOffice >- Gnome-Terminal > >In the target audience for SunRays, what are the primary >applications utilized on SunRays? > >Any reductions in Memory consumption of the above applications >results in a direct ability to scale SunRay User Desktops on a >single SunRay Server instance. > >Joel. > > It seems to me that a browser is a must-have pretty much 100% of the time. And IMO (for any SunRay target audience I can think of) it would have to be Firefox. Those kinds of deployments always seem to need the most feature-full and familiar (multi-platform) browser there is, and on those terms Firefox is looking like a runaway winner these days. Eric From bart.smaalders at Sun.COM Wed May 17 18:16:20 2006 From: bart.smaalders at Sun.COM (Bart Smaalders) Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 18:16:20 -0700 Subject: [desktop-discuss] Re: [content-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <446BCAE4.5090906@Sun.COM> Bill Rushmore wrote: > On Tue, 16 May 2006, Bart Smaalders wrote: > >> >> It has staroffice, java, etc, compilers (gcc), everything >> that might be needed. >> >> The fact that this box has a 40G laptop drive means I have >> lots of space left over.... and this is a _tiny_ drive. >> >> Why minimize? >> >> -= Bart > > I can think of a few reasons to minimize, and it is not just space. All > of that extra software can be a liability, in the sense of security. > For a standard developer desktop it might not matter (I actually agree > with you there) but for secure servers or kiosks it is a big deal to > minimize. Why have all software that someone potetially take advantage > of? The more software you have on the system the more likely one of > those things has a vulnerabilty. > > Bill > rushmores.net > _______________________________________________ > desktop-discuss mailing list > desktop-discuss at opensolaris.org The only software worth minimizing is setuid binaries or running services; anything else is just security paranoia. Those who insist on removing perl, java, etc, because those are "hacker tools" just make life miserable for everyone. - Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts at cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts From bart.smaalders at Sun.COM Thu May 18 08:11:47 2006 From: bart.smaalders at Sun.COM (Bart Smaalders) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:11:47 -0700 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [desktop-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <446C6721.10401@ford.com> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> <446C2058.1020908@sun.com> <446C6721.10401@ford.com> Message-ID: <446C8EB3.2000009@Sun.COM> Gary A. Ross wrote: > The possibility of developing "utility" servers, and having the software > and data be mounted to it, makes the environment much easier to > administer. It takes the thin concept, one level up, from the client to > the server. > Today, all of the gnome binaries & libraries are can be mounted read-only. This environment does rely on a writable home directory, but that's generally needed for persistent storage of documents, anyway. I agree that with the costs of CPUs dropping very quickly and network performance increasing steadily, a diskless local cpu makes a lot of sense. I use a Gbit network in my house; my kids can access our file server (running Solaris, ZFS and Samba) with higher bandwidth than they can often get from their local disk drives. The real reason for putting the CPU next to the user is to take advantage of the great cpu<>screen bandwidth. With adequate network resources, a local diskless machine is very feasible indeed. - Bart Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance barts at cyber.eng.sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/barts From gross at ford.com Thu May 18 05:22:57 2006 From: gross at ford.com (Gary A. Ross) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:22:57 -0400 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [desktop-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <446C2058.1020908@sun.com> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> <446C2058.1020908@sun.com> Message-ID: <446C6721.10401@ford.com> Everyone, In the corporate environment, where I live, the trend for clients is to get "thinner". Not only in terms of remote displays (aka SunRay), but there is increasing pressure to significantly reduce support amd maintenance costs. The "ultra thin" devices are excellent for some admin personnel, and specific functionality, such as call centers. Unfortunately they fall short for the general population. As John Rice has said already, SunRay clients running ?essential? applications such as streaming media, and browsing rich media content, can quickly crush a general purpose server, resulting in poor performance for everyone. We did a lot of testing last year, and our results confirmed these issues. Corporations are looking at different concepts such as "thin PC's". These are desktop systems, but without any local disks. All data is gotten from from network devices. Applications are being streamed from servers, but are being executed on the local system, not running on a server like the SunRay model. This gives the user the resources of a powerful CPU, memory, and graphics subsystems, without many of the basic security and support issues found in systems today. This isn't really new, as you well know. The concept of "diskless nodes" has been around the UNIX environment for decades, and has been tuned for many years. Applications in this environment have been designed from the start to be able to be executed from a remote mount, most of the time mounted as "read only". The real reason why I sent this was a plea from a user and customer. Please, please, please, do not fall into the trap the LINUX gang has fallen into. Applications are becoming increasingly interdependent, and most of the time are mandating a write back to the directory the application is installed in. Installing a single application is usually an exercise in frustration, having to load many additional packages, different versions of the same software, all in different locations, etc ...; it's just a mess. Designing for working in a served, "read only" mount, could help push the adoption of things such as grid computing, application streaming, and mobility in general. The possibility of developing "utility" servers, and having the software and data be mounted to it, makes the environment much easier to administer. It takes the thin concept, one level up, from the client to the server. This is near and dear to my heart, as I live and die in the distributed space. Having consistency in the client and server environment is critical in a very large enterprise. Use of new technologies such as Kerberos and NFSv4 allow large companies to save significant resources, both in hardware and software. Looking at a lot of the developer mailing lists, I see that this basic premise is being lost. More and more developers are just adopting what the LINUX guys are doing, which is the Microsoft model of just have all the resources local. This is a subtle change from running in the served environment. If we don't start to recognize that this is not necessarily the best place to go, it might become very difficult to change in the future. Thank you for listening, Gary A. Ross NetOps Architecture and Infrastructure Ford Motor Company email: gross at ford.com John Rice wrote: > Joel, memory is certainly one limiting factor, but CPU is often the > more important constraint on a SunRay. With a hundred users on a box > if specifc apps start eating CPU, it doesn't take long to grind the > box into the ground. Browser loading pages with poorly written > javascript, java applet that's misbehaving, looping flash animation > ... are just some of the things that can cause this to happen [check > out bugzilla and look for memory issues to see how many are related to > poorly designed pages]. > > The browser would appear to be the biggest hog on the system with > regard to memory consumption. If the user has 20-30 tabs open with > plenty of graphics on them, you can see heap usage for the browser > going over 100 Meg without any problem. Ideas have been knocked around > to make the browser more efficient, from having it not store images in > memory for hidden tabs, to improving how it allocates pixmaps on the > xserver and/or having direct support in xorg for compressed pixmaps, > but no one is currently working on implementing any of these ideas. > > JR > > Joel Buckley wrote: > >>>> Eric Boutilier wrote: >>>> >>>> Ok, but seriously, why minimize a user desktop? >>>> >>>> >> >> The limiting factor on SunRay2 deployment is Memory >> use on per User Desktop. 60 SunRay User Desktops >> managed on a single SunRay Server appears to be typical... >> >> The top memory consumption programs are: >> >> - Xorg >> - Mozilla >> - Firefox >> - Thunderbird >> - StarOffice >> - Gnome-Terminal >> >> In the target audience for SunRays, what are the primary >> applications utilized on SunRays? >> >> Any reductions in Memory consumption of the above applications >> results in a direct ability to scale SunRay User Desktops on a >> single SunRay Server instance. >> >> Joel. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> desktop-discuss mailing list >> desktop-discuss at opensolaris.org >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-discuss mailing list > desktop-discuss at opensolaris.org -- Gary A. Ross NetOps Architecture and Infrastructure Ford Motor Company email: gross at ford.com Phone: (313) 390-4313 From John.Rice at Sun.COM Thu May 18 00:20:56 2006 From: John.Rice at Sun.COM (John Rice) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:20:56 +0100 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [desktop-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <446C2058.1020908@sun.com> Joel, memory is certainly one limiting factor, but CPU is often the more important constraint on a SunRay. With a hundred users on a box if specifc apps start eating CPU, it doesn't take long to grind the box into the ground. Browser loading pages with poorly written javascript, java applet that's misbehaving, looping flash animation ... are just some of the things that can cause this to happen [check out bugzilla and look for memory issues to see how many are related to poorly designed pages]. The browser would appear to be the biggest hog on the system with regard to memory consumption. If the user has 20-30 tabs open with plenty of graphics on them, you can see heap usage for the browser going over 100 Meg without any problem. Ideas have been knocked around to make the browser more efficient, from having it not store images in memory for hidden tabs, to improving how it allocates pixmaps on the xserver and/or having direct support in xorg for compressed pixmaps, but no one is currently working on implementing any of these ideas. JR Joel Buckley wrote: >>>Eric Boutilier wrote: >>> >>>Ok, but seriously, why minimize a user desktop? >>> >>> >>> > >The limiting factor on SunRay2 deployment is Memory >use on per User Desktop. 60 SunRay User Desktops >managed on a single SunRay Server appears to be typical... > >The top memory consumption programs are: > >- Xorg >- Mozilla >- Firefox >- Thunderbird >- StarOffice >- Gnome-Terminal > >In the target audience for SunRays, what are the primary >applications utilized on SunRays? > >Any reductions in Memory consumption of the above applications >results in a direct ability to scale SunRay User Desktops on a >single SunRay Server instance. > >Joel. > > >_______________________________________________ >desktop-discuss mailing list >desktop-discuss at opensolaris.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Sun May 21 16:37:35 2006 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 11:37:35 +1200 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4470F9BF.9020600@sun.com> Hey, Eric Boutilier wrote: > What hit me is that in order to be viable these days, any > desktop implementation needs Firefox, and that Firefox > is based on GNOME (GTK+) libraries, Glib, Pango, ATK, > et al. So what does this have to do with this document? > Well, in addition to the set of packages needed to get > X running[1], all the packages that Firefox needs (lots of > them) are also required. So here's a copy of that set. In > specific, this set is intended to comprise the additional > packages that Firefox depends on, but not to include > any superfluous packages: > > http://blogs.sun.com/roller/resources/eric_boutilier/neededbyFirefox.txt Hrm, I'm not so sure about this list - I'd be surprised if there was any dependency on SUNWgnome-panel or SUNWgnome-components. Having dependencies on SUNWGlib, SUNWGtku and SUNWGtkr also seems wrong since you should be able to build Firefox without needing those older libraries. Glynn From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Sun May 21 16:58:10 2006 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 11:58:10 +1200 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [desktop-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <446C2058.1020908@sun.com> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> <446C2058.1020908@sun.com> Message-ID: <4470FE92.2070603@sun.com> Hey, John Rice wrote: > The browser would appear to be the biggest hog on the system with regard > to memory consumption. If the user has 20-30 tabs open with plenty of > graphics on them, you can see heap usage for the browser going over 100 > Meg without any problem. Ideas have been knocked around to make the > browser more efficient, from having it not store images in memory for > hidden tabs, to improving how it allocates pixmaps on the xserver and/or > having direct support in xorg for compressed pixmaps, but no one is > currently working on implementing any of these ideas. Well, as others may already have picked up, this is one piece of sweet news - "Unix Font Performance/Rendering patches available" http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/freetype-devel/2006-05/msg00052.html Hubba hubba ;) Glynn From Alan.Coopersmith at Sun.COM Mon May 22 09:30:11 2006 From: Alan.Coopersmith at Sun.COM (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 09:30:11 -0700 Subject: [content-discuss] Re: [desktop-discuss] Re: [appliances-discuss] Re: Article idea "Getting Small"? In-Reply-To: <4470FE92.2070603@sun.com> References: <4421D0B0.8080809@Sun.COM> <4421E164.8090207@sun.com> <4423321A.8070701@Sun.COM> <44693BB6.4020006@Sun.COM> <446A0743.50000@Sun.COM> <446A0E31.10901@Sun.COM> <446A0F62.4070909@Sun.COM> <446A1733.10905@Sun.COM> <446C2058.1020908@sun.com> <4470FE92.2070603@sun.com> Message-ID: <4471E713.9020006@sun.com> Glynn Foster wrote: > Well, as others may already have picked up, this is one piece of sweet > news - > > "Unix Font Performance/Rendering patches available" > http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/freetype-devel/2006-05/msg00052.html Hopefully we can get there without having to switch to FreeType 2.2.x, which will take some time due to the level of incompatibility it introduced. (Xorg still won't build with FT 2.2.x yet. I don't know about Pango or the rest of the GNOME stack.) -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering