[desktop-discuss] Re: SuSE Enterprise Desktop 10 reviews

[Manish]

> > Exactly! That's the only way Solaris can reach
> more
> > desktops than it's doing now.
> > I particularly dislike JDS implementation of GNOME
> > for its Redmond look and feel.
> 
> I actually quite like the new look. Yes the Layout is
> classic Redmond style. Personally I dont like
> the default gnome layout. Maybe an alternate gnome
> JDS layout could be done for people who
> do.
> 

I think it's better to retain the original GNOME look, and only change to the
Redmond look if the user desires so.

> > I'm not a sysadmin or even a Solaris guru. But I
> > happen to like Solaris somehow
> > and wish to see it support most of the
> desktop/laptop
> > needs for a normal user.
> 
> Currently you can get things like battery status and
> temp/cpu meters from Caspers frkit. What else is
> needed?? (Sorry assuming you have a AMD64)
> 

No :(. An Intel P4 desktop, and Centrino (Sonoma) ThinkPad R52.
Sure, frkit is available ...but it never worked for me. ACPI with reliable
power management scheme would be a much better idea.

> > Targetting only niche server market, while
> ignoring
> > desktop users, will not benefit
> > Solaris in the long run.
> 
> I would currently call the Unix/Linux desktop market
> more niche at the moment. Sun makes much more cash
> from the server market, so I don't see them targeting
> the servers any less. I also dont think they are
> ignoring the desktop market. They have put a lot of
> resources into it recently.
> 

With more and more desktop users switching to *NIXen everyday,
I wouldn't consider it a smaller community anymore. Granted, most
of the immigrants prefer GNU/Linux dsitributions like Ubuntu or SUSE,
there's still ample space for OpenSolaris to fit in. And I happen to
think that targeting desktop users will benefit *Solaris in long run.

> > 
> > DISCLAIMER: I'm not a troll, but a serious Solaris
> > user who loves *NIX systems.
> > 
> > Here's what I would like to see in Solaris x86:
> > 1. Optimized for at least the 686 architecture.
> Debug
> > free kernel.
> 
> The CPU flags are quite easy to change. Just be
> careful not to add mmx/sse instructions to the
> kernel. The registers for mmx/sse are not saved on a
> context switch. I don't really know how much of a
> speed up you would get. Alan Hargreaves, has blogged
> before on doing non-debug builds. I don't know what
> the current status is. Also, a couple of the distros
> have non-debug kernel. You might want to see what
> they have done.
> 

While I'm not a newbie at compiling kernel and stuff, my comment
above was actually from a regular desktop user's perspective. Why
is that *Solaris can't ship with release-kernel optimized for i686?
I don't see either individuals or organizations running Solaris on older
hardware, particulary when Solaris x86 is still called 'Slowaris' just about
everywhere.

It's not about minor optimizations here and there. It shows that Sun still
doesn't pay much needed attention to the Solaris x86.

> > 2. Easy kernel customization and build process,
> like
> > Linux.
> 
> Rome, wasn't built in a a day. 'bfu' does need some
> work... Linux customization and build is better, but
> I find rather sucky as well.
> 

Right. I understand that bfu is constantlt being improved.
But, the process is quirky and certainly not as clean and modularized
as in case of Linux. I hope all this work brings forward some goodness.

> > 3. Bring back admintool if you can't build
> something
> > like YaST2. SMC s****.
> 
> NO. Not admintool. Anything but!!! Sorry whoever
> wrote it :)
> SMC, nice idea, but...
> 

admintool wasn't impressive, but nonetheless better than SMC, IMHO.
SMC is simply crap (pardon me, developers!) and slow like nothing else.
Most of the times, it simply doesn't work. I found it inherently broken
in latest Express releases.

> > 4. Project managers, are you listening? Stop
> shoving
> > Java just about everywhere. Java Desktop System is
> a
> > prettly lame name indeed. Many potential converts,
> > coming from both Windows and Linux Worlds, don't
> > really consider Java and Desktop compatible. For
> > them, it's an oxymoron.
> > For an example, look at how well Novel SLED10
> GNOME
> > has been implemented.
> 
> Jxxx Desktop System - marketing gone wild. Just call
> it 'JDS', and correct anybody who calls it anything
> else.
> Novel SLED? Isn't a sled something that goes
> downhills ??
> 

'JDS' does a poor job pf hiding the underlying Java p0rn.
Novell SLED is "SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop", and it's THE
best GNU/Linux distribution ever in terms of polishness and
ease of use.

> > 5. Hardware accelerated graphics. No, XGL is not
> > necessary. DRI would do for now.
> 
> DRI, would be nice...
> 

Yes, but when?

> > 6. Better overall system responsiveness. Give
> > preference to desktops/laptops too.
> 
> Again DRI, would be nice...
> 

I'm not waiting forever. ;-)

> > 7. Something like HAL, or a port would do wonders.
> 
> Just around the corner. I just included it so it
> would not be left out.
> 

Good news indeed! Solaris better keep up with the latest in development,
for these are not the days to ignore the new technology in favor of backwards
compatibility.

> > 8. A solid, reliable and native package management
> > system. Third party reliability is not very
> credible,
> > though I really appreciate the work of Sunfreeware
> > and Blastwave.
> 
> Actually there is nothing really wrong with SVR4
> packaging tools. Most of the flack they get is
> unjustified. What is really needed is a good app
> which can add and update packages from an online
> repository. This would fantastic. 
> 

Actually, this is what I meant to say. The underlying tools are
very good, no doubt about that.

> It would also be nice that Open Solaris (Not
> Solaris), included or had a menu to download and
> configure, the indivual development environments.
> Such that, I I wanted to do some work on JDS, I could
> simple go to a menu/app and select the JDS
> Development Environment, and it would automagically
> download and configure the CBE setup. 
> 

Exactly!

> > 9. Implement better support for WiFi, Bluetooth,
> > DigiCams etc.
> 
> WiFi, and DigiCams are getting better. Bluetooth, not
> quite sure on this one.
> 

Music to my ears! Bluetooth will come along, I hope.

> > 10. It's really amazing that while latest Solaris
> > Express releases come on 5 CDs or
> > 1 DVD, still it doesn't install most used
> opensource
> > packages. Instead, what we get is outdated and
> > redundant software. It's calling for improvement.
> > Also, consider better package selection management
> in
> > install process.
> 
> The companion is being worked on. The /usr/sfw stuff
> will always be slower as Sun have to give support for
> these. Some of their paying customers don't like
> change :(
> 
> Yes, the installer could use some tidying up. It
> really craps me off that I cannot deselect drivers I
> don't want. I hardly think I need fibre channel
> drivers for my laptop.
>  

True. :(
I want to scream loudly like a manman everytime I see StarOffice7
on my desktop. Why can't simply they package StarOffice8 or at least
OpenOffice? I doubt Sun makes much revenue from the StarOffice suite.

> > 12. Since Sun Studio is freely available now,
> > consider packaging it with Solaris.
> 
> Agreed. Well atleast Open Solaris :) The latest
> Netbeans would also be good.
> 

Definitely! Doesn't make much sense not to package along
one of the finest development suites, which is free anyway.

> > 
> > I read that virtual consoles are being worked on.
> > This is definitely good.
> > 
> > PS: Sorry if this isn't the most suitable for
> posting
> > this, but I needed to express
> > my feeling regarding Solaris on Desktops/Laptops.
> I
> > couldn't contain it anymore.
> 
> It is always good to vent.... Discussion is good.
> 
> Doug

Agreed. Discussion is always productive.

Regards.
 
 
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