[ogb-discuss] Community Facilitators

Tue Oct 2 22:32:05 PDT 2007

On 10/2/07, Alan Burlison <Alan.Burlison at sun.com> wrote:
> Shawn Walker wrote:
>
> > Pick a possibility:
> >
> > 1) Contributors that have contributed in the past aren't motivated due
> > to lack of Sun resources that are (perceived???) as being necessary to
> > make contributions
>
> We've already agreed on that one.
>
> > 2) New contributors are scared away and don't know how to contribute
> > since almost none of the projects or communities have a simple "How to
> > contribute" page
>
> That's an easy fix, and one that the communities and projects could do now.

Actually I don't think this is the only approach. Basically people
have different skills: OS Developer, Web Developer, Writer, People
Person, Blogger, and et al. We need to direct those people by their
self identified skills to where they will be of most use. Not
neccesarily to a massive list of projects first.

> > 3) Contributors see all sorts of decisions made off-line and then
> > announced on the lists by Sun folks which leads them to believe that
> > their voice wouldn't matter anyway since they weren't asked to begin
> > with
>
> Welcome to a distributed community, working on a huge software project.
>   This has been a fact of life for me in *all* my time in Sun
> Engineering.  I work in the UK, not MPK and most of the time I have
> little idea what is happening in areas that I'm not directly involved in
> - why would someone from say, ZFS, consult *me*?  I really think there
> were enough hints that something was up in the packaging area - even *I*
> in my bunker in Darkest Derbyshire realised that.  If you want to know,
> you have to ask.

I guess being in a bunker has it's advantages. Seriously, more effort
needs to be made to share at opensolaris.org.

> > 4) No one but Sun folks (as far as I know) has the ability to really
> > help maintain or manage the opensolaris.org website since it appears
> > to require access to Sun private resources
>
> Yes.  Although if individual people had the right skills and were
> prepared to be phoned up at 3:00am in the morning when the site went
> titsup, I'm sure we would welcome them.

Well, we are a global community after all. (Follow the clock and all
that). But there are tasks involved in intrastructure mainenance
beyond firefighting. (At least there should be.) I'm not bad at HA
designs. (Seriously, I'm not kidding). ;)

> >> thread that appeared on sysadmin-discuss about the new packaging system?
> >> Again, proposals for the packaging have been available for some
> >> considerable time, and the people who are now being so abusive didn't
> >> see fit to comment at the time.
> >
> > Sorry, but in the case of ips, I never saw a proposal. I saw a few
> > blog posts and emails fly here and there about interesting concepts
> > around packaging and then one day, "poof!" it was on opensolaris.org
> > and it had apparently been in development for some time already.
>  >
> > If you want to know why folks were upset, just go back to the lack of
> > communication about what was happening.
>
> See 3) above

Some of us did comment at the time. We just didn't understand the
extent of what has happening behind the scenes. (I commented that the
new packaging system should allow for source packages.)

> >> I agree with Keith on one thing - Sun engineers are not some sort of
> >> private development team that is at the beck and call of random people
> >> who subscribe to sundry opensolaris.org lists.  In all the other
> >> communities I've been a member of, having your voice listened to is a
> >> privilege, not a right, and it's a privilege that's earned in proportion
> >> to the contribution level, not volume level.
> >
> > That's all well and good to say except that a large number of
> > operations right now *require* Sun resources. It's really frustrating
> > for you to accuse community members of not wanting to contribute or
> > become involved whenever the majority of the processes require Sun
> > resources to do anything useful at all.
>
> [examples snipped]
>
> I agree entirely, it's extremely frustrating on *both* sides of the
> fence.  However kicking the messenger is both unfair and extremely
> demotivating.  I can assure you that working on this project is
> *extremely* challenging, and being pelted with rocks by the opensolaris
> community isn't exactly helpful.  As has been pointed out many times
> before, there is no such person as "Sun", there are individual people,
> and it is *them*  who are the target of the rants.  Before people post
> yet another "***SUN*** did/did not do X/Y/Z" email, they should go
> through and substitute *their* name for "***SUN***".  If they wouldn't
> like to receive such an email, then they shouldn't send one.

You are conflating two differnt themes. One is that people are
resource constrained and don't have headcount to review external
contributions. This needs to be addressed at the highest levels.

The other is that from the outside, the collective actions of a group
of people with Sun on their badges, operating in a convenient manner
that is a habitual pattern, (that seems opaque from the outside),
isn't necessarily conducive to sending the message that enthusiasts
are welcome in the community.

Personally I'm not sure what to think of this whole thing. Do we just
stick the genie back in the bottle and call it a good try, or do we
keep trying to figure out how we can open up more, and still get
things done. Some of us myself included need to realize that
communications mistakes and oversights are not necessarily deliberate
conspiratorial slights.

On the other side, all Sun individuals that are working on something
that might be of value to the community must try to spend the extra 5%
time to inform the community of what is happening. (If there is stuff
being evaluated, then let us know, and let us know what criterion are
being used.)

I have been told not to get my knickers in a bunch, as Indiana is a
Sun internal project, is all marketing, and I'd best steer clear, or I
will burst a vein waiting for the community part. I didn't accept this
input and am continuing to try and plod forward against the grain, and
move many community building efforts forward.. (Building community is
hard work, just as coding is. I'd argue that coding is a more
enjoyable pasttime than community building, but you go where your
conscience drives you.).

> And it's even more frustrating to be the target of continual sniping and
> carping from members of the opensolaris community (both inside *and*
> outside Sun), when the people who carp the most tend to be the ones who
> contribute the least.

By what measure do you weigh contribution? Lines of code? Coders
recruited? Switchers switched? Developers sponsored? Documents
written? Hours of personal time spent? Cash spent?

As far as carping and sniping, you think we haven't seen our share,
both here and at our day jobs? Welcome to the world of critics.... I
mean Open source development.

> Mostly the responses we give are polite and placatory.  Well, I've

Well, in the same way most of the external community members posts are
polite and placatory. Some Sun employees don't like the rock being
lifted, and are just as emotional.

> personally had enough of being a piñata.  If I see something that I
> consider to be an unreasonable gripe, I'm going to call it out.

Please provide evidence that you are being used as a piñata. I haven't seen it.

> > Yes, I'm aware of the hg transition, etc. -- that will help. But in
> > the meantime, the contribution barrier is high in terms of resources,
> > poor to little documentation of the process to contribute, and a lack
> > of communication sometimes from communities.
> >
> > I apologise in advance to all the sponsors and others who have helped
> > me, but it isn't incredibly motivating to contribute when the smallest
> > contributions take *weeks* or *months* to actually be reviewed, used,
> > or accepted.
>
> One word. Resources.

This will get better. Sleep will help. Time will help. Small successes
will help.

There is one thing I have to say to all of OpenSolaris's Sun members.
For the most part this is one of the most welcoming, and friendly
communities I've worked with. (Well for a large community that is).

People want to help you get your feet on the ground. And really help
new folks. (As long as they don't ask "Stupid" "off-topic" questions.
;) (Just kidding, you guys seem to even have a tolerance for that).

Hopefully this upcoming summit will enable both groups of contributors
to understand and meet the individuals as people, rather than Sun
piñatas and non-SUN piñatas.

> --
> Alan Burlison
> --
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> ogb-discuss at opensolaris.org
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-- 
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/