avant-window-navigator for OpenSolaris [LSARC/2008/452 FastTrack timeout 07/22/2008]
Irene Huang
Irene.Huang at sun.com
Sun Aug 3 19:56:01 PDT 2008
If there's objections within 24 hours, I'd like to close this case as
approved then.
Thanks
--irene
On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 15:47 +0800, Irene Huang wrote:
> Hi, All
>
> I am reseting the timeout to be August 4th.
>
> --Irene
> On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 10:14 +0800, Henry Zhang wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I made some changes on the proposal to make it neat, please check.
> > Thank Brian for review...
> >
> > Regards,
> > Henry
> >
> > Henry Zhang 写é“:
> > > Hi Brain, See my answer in-line,
> > >
> > > And I finished the proposal to add some change from the discussing, see
> > > attachement.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Henry
> > >
> > > Brian Cameron 写é“:
> > >>
> > >> Henry:
> > >>
> > >>>> What is the accessibility impact of this new mechanism of accessing
> > >>>> "applet like things"? Does this "just work" with accessibility? If
> > >>>> not, what is our plan to make it accessible?
> > >>>
> > >>> AWN is used to manage the running task, and some applets. We can use
> > >>> Ctl+Alt+Tab to access the running task, it should be accessibility
> > >>> support.
> > >>> For the applets in AWN, no way to access them through keyboard by now.
> > >>
> > >> I think it would be good to discuss some sort of get-well plan for a11y
> > >> in the materials.
> > >
> > > These days I discussed accessibility support with the community, they
> > > confirm me that they have not consider this issue, I will try to push
> > > them to see if they can do some work on it, at least I can see they
> > > begin to think add some support so that user can access AWN by keyboard.
> > > And by now we can use Ctl+Alt+Tab to switch in the running applications,
> > > so these should be support accessibility.
> > >>
> > >>>> Also, how does this relate to gDesklets? Although giving users choice
> > >>>> to customize their desktop is a good thing, I hope we aren't going to
> > >>>> end up with a mish-mash of random eyecandy that doesn't work well or
> > >>>> integrate together.
> > >>>
> > >>> There is no confliction between gDesklets and AWN, gDesklets used to
> > >>> place the applets to desktop, AWN will run applets in its dock. The
> > >>> applets is different, for gDesklets, using .display file, while AWN
> > >>> need .desktop file in the applet package.
> > >>
> > >> Might be good to explain the relationship between gnome-panel,
> > >> gDesklets, and avant-window-navigator in the materials a bit more.
> > > Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal.
> > >>
> > >>>> Do users need to compile code to install a new applet, or are the
> > >>>> applets interpreted (e.g. Python code) so that users can just
> > >>>> install an
> > >>>> applet and it will just work without needing to do extra complicated
> > >>>> things like compile code?
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes, for Python applet, user can use awn-manager to install directly,
> > >>> no compile needed. For C, need to build and install.
> > >>
> > >> That's good to hear. You could also explain this in the materials a bit
> > >> more.
> > >
> > > Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal.
> > >>
> > >>>>> If someone develop the applet for AWN, should follow Applet
> > >>>>> Submission at http://wiki.awn-project.org/Awn_Extras:Applet_Submission
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Could you give some examples of what sorts of applets are available for
> > >>>> this framework?
> > >>>
> > >>> See http://wiki.awn-project.org/Applets:DevelopmentGuidelines, where
> > >>> list the detailed guideline on what the applet should be.
> > >>> You also can download awn-extras, there are some stable example.
> > >>
> > >> It doesn't seem like we have spent enough effort figuring out which
> > >> plugins we should/could be including by default. Wouldn't
> > >> avant-window-navigator be more useful if we shipped some plugin
> > >> features with it?
> > > They generally used to make the display effect better to look, so not
> > > necessary.
> > >> Do other distros ship any plugins with it?
> > >> Perhaps we should follow the general community lead here. Though
> > >> this could also be managed in a separate case, rather than this
> > >> case.
> > > From the webpage, the plugin is with awn-extras, so should in another
> > > project. And most of plugins are Ubuntu-special.
> > >>
> > >>>> What applets are installed by default and what do they do?
> > >>>
> > >>> Currently from what I can see, there is only 1 applet installed by
> > >>> default, it is Launch/Taskmanager, in order to add some other, have
> > >>> to use awn-extras.
> > >>
> > >> It would be nice if the case materials explained more about the one
> > >> applet that is installed by default, and what it does, in more detail.
> > > Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal.
> > >
> > >>
> > >>>> How active are third parties or individuals at creating applets?
> > >>> It really depend on the individual who like to contribute his applet
> > >>> to AWN, from what I can see, there definitely are quite some new
> > >>> applets provided by some developers.
> > >>
> > >> There sure are. I'm curious what applets other distributions might be
> > >> including by default.
> > > In AWN, by default there is only one applet, all other applets need to
> > > be added by awn-extras, I discussed with the community yesterday, they
> > > told me "There are some plans to include more applets in the core
> > > installation."
> > >>
> > >>>> I notice the Applet Gallery you describe is here:
> > >>>> http://wiki.awn-project.org/Applet_Gallery
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Which ones will we be shipping, if any?
> > >>> Most of the applets listed in Gallery are just in awn-extra, also
> > >>> there are some applets contributed by some developers, awn-extras is
> > >>> another different project, I tried to build it, failed, because all
> > >>> of applets are in this package, some applet need different
> > >>> dependencies, some of them are missing on Solaris, e.g.
> > >>> python-alsaaudio.
> > >>
> > >> On Solaris, we support SunAudio and will hopefully soon support OSS. So
> > >> any applets which depend on ALSA would obviously not work. It would be
> > >> nice if we provided (at the very least) a spec-file in spec-files-extra
> > >> to allow people to more easily build whatever extra plugins do work on
> > >> Solaris.
> > > Will do once got time..
> > >>
> > >>>> Although it does look cool, I worry that it will confuse users if we
> > >>>> provide another interface that works very similar to gnome-panel. I
> > >>>> would appreciate more information about what our future plans are.
> > >>>> Will
> > >>>> avant-window-navigator replace gnome-panel, will it be used together
> > >>>> with gnome-panel, or is it expected that users will pick one or the
> > >>>> other to use? Perhaps you could explain a bit how you expect users
> > >>>> would actually use this in relation to gnome-panel.
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes, It's a big concern now, we have gnome-panel, should we ship AWN?
> > >>> At the moment, AWN can't replace gnome-panel, reason below:
> > >>> 1, AWN need compositing support, it means before run AWN, you have to
> > >>> make Compiz start, then AWN can run, so in the non-Compiz
> > >>> environment, we can only use gnome-panel.
> > >>> 2, There is no launch menu by default in AWN, and the AWN menu can't
> > >>> updates when applications are installed.
> > >>> 3, Trash in AWN is not stable enough now.
> > >>> 4, maybe something others I did not dig out..
> > >>
> > >> Whether we ship AWN for these reasons is obviously a business decision
> > >> for the team to make. It shouldn't affect whether the ARC case is
> > >> approved or not. It might make most sense to integrate it when the
> > >> above issues are addressed. However, I would make sure you file bugs
> > >> upstream (probably with both the AWN and gnome-panel projects) to see
> > >> if we can encourage the upstream maintainers to address some of these
> > >> issues (along with the a11y issues).
> > >>
> > >> I'd talk it over with your project team.
> > > Yes, I did discuss with the project team, and I noticed they have
> > > realized these issue, and discussing how to fix them, but no schedule now.
> > >>
> > >>>> If they are intended to be used together, then is it likely that users
> > >>>> be confused by having two sets of interfaces that do very similar
> > >>>> things?
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes, this issue also bother me, so I'd say AWN can provide some
> > >>> different experience which gnome-panel can't provide, e.g. 3D..
> > >>> So if user like to taste, he can download and use it.
> > >>
> > >> Right.
> > >>
> > >>>> managers (metacity and compiz). Users can easily manage switching
> > >>>> between the two because the GNOME configuration dialogs allows users to
> > >>>> pick which one they will use. This way users are prevented from
> > >>>> possibly trying to run both at the same time, making a more sane user
> > >>>> experience. Is switching back and forth between gnome-panel and
> > >>>> avant-window-navigator managed in a similar simple fashion?
> > >>>
> > >>> by now it's impossible to switch between them, because we can't
> > >>> remove gnome-panel.
> > >>
> > >> Seems it would be neat to enhance the desktop so users could more easily
> > >> switch between them if they wanted.
> > > Yes, I agree, so in Ubuntu, they generally close the gnome-panel at the
> > > bottom, and only make the top panel run, and AWN run at the bottom of
> > > screen, I think we can do in this way, and it's planned that AWN will be
> > > placed anywhere of screen, so in the future, we can make these 2 work
> > > together better..
> > >
> > >>
> > >>>> Will we be integrating any of these Extra plugins with this case, or a
> > >>>> separate case? Or are you just informing us that end users can install
> > >>>> additional applets if they wish?
> > >>>
> > >>> They should be in awn-extras, it's another project, we may consider
> > >>> to deliver it separately.
> > >>
> > >> Makes sense.
> > >>
> > >> Brian
> > plain text document attachment (awn-project-plan.txt)
> > Item Name Owner Start Date Expected Completion comments
> >
> > Project Plan
> >
> > ARC one-pager Done.
> >
> > ARC fast track ongoing
> >
> > Open Source Review done
> >
> > ECCN Not start
> >
> > Porting done
> >
> > spec/SUNWspec file done to spec-files-other/core
> >
> > copyright file done to spec-files-other/copyright
> >
> > G11n done need send a request to Takao.Fujiwara at Sun.COM and cc desktop-discuss at opensolaris.org
> >
> > launch menu, done need to send the .desktop file to calum benson, have a description of your project and why you want to put it to the menu.
> >
> > ARC Material not start dump -Lv/ CLI.txt(--help)/ manpage / schemas/ pkgmap
> >
> > manpage not start
> >
> > test&fix not start
> >
> > ======================= Not necessary ==============================================
> > Cteam Checklist HenryZ Mar. 1 07 Mar. 15 07 Not necessary
> >
> > Contract HenryZ Mar. 20 07 Mar. 30 07 ongoing
> >
> > TPT HenryZ Mar. 19 07 Mar. 21 07 Done. And store at /net/solaris.eng/benet/S11/TPT/JDS/virt-manager
> >
> > "What's New" Form at http://releaseme.sfbay/new_features_input.html
> >
> > Write Test Plan PatrickG Dec. 18 06 Dec. 23 06 Done,
> >
> > UI review Calum Nov. 21 06 Nov. 30 06 Have sent mail to Calum,
> >
> > Pre-integration Test PatrickG Mar. 22 07 Apr. 15 07 Preparing by Patrick Gu
> >
> > A11Y testing TimM Mar. 22 07 Apr. 20 07 Need confirm from TimM
> >
> > L10n HelenW Dec. 25 06 Jan. 01 07 Need confirm from HelenW
> >
> > TOI
> >
> > Doc plan manpages, project plan, TPT, What's New doc(S10U) etc.
> >
> > Pre-integ Bug Fixing HenryZ Apr. 15 07 Apr. 30 07 B65 code freeze date is May 4 07, but there is holiday on May 1~7
> >
>
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