avant-window-navigator for OpenSolaris [LSARC/2008/452 FastTrack timeout 07/22/2008]
Irene Huang
Irene.Huang at sun.com
Wed Jul 30 00:47:54 PDT 2008
Hi, All
I am reseting the timeout to be August 4th.
--Irene
On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 10:14 +0800, Henry Zhang wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I made some changes on the proposal to make it neat, please check.
> Thank Brian for review...
>
> Regards,
> Henry
>
> Henry Zhang 写é“:
> > Hi Brain, See my answer in-line,
> >
> > And I finished the proposal to add some change from the discussing, see
> > attachement.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Henry
> >
> > Brian Cameron 写é“:
> >>
> >> Henry:
> >>
> >>>> What is the accessibility impact of this new mechanism of accessing
> >>>> "applet like things"? Does this "just work" with accessibility? If
> >>>> not, what is our plan to make it accessible?
> >>>
> >>> AWN is used to manage the running task, and some applets. We can use
> >>> Ctl+Alt+Tab to access the running task, it should be accessibility
> >>> support.
> >>> For the applets in AWN, no way to access them through keyboard by now.
> >>
> >> I think it would be good to discuss some sort of get-well plan for a11y
> >> in the materials.
> >
> > These days I discussed accessibility support with the community, they
> > confirm me that they have not consider this issue, I will try to push
> > them to see if they can do some work on it, at least I can see they
> > begin to think add some support so that user can access AWN by keyboard.
> > And by now we can use Ctl+Alt+Tab to switch in the running applications,
> > so these should be support accessibility.
> >>
> >>>> Also, how does this relate to gDesklets? Although giving users choice
> >>>> to customize their desktop is a good thing, I hope we aren't going to
> >>>> end up with a mish-mash of random eyecandy that doesn't work well or
> >>>> integrate together.
> >>>
> >>> There is no confliction between gDesklets and AWN, gDesklets used to
> >>> place the applets to desktop, AWN will run applets in its dock. The
> >>> applets is different, for gDesklets, using .display file, while AWN
> >>> need .desktop file in the applet package.
> >>
> >> Might be good to explain the relationship between gnome-panel,
> >> gDesklets, and avant-window-navigator in the materials a bit more.
> > Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal.
> >>
> >>>> Do users need to compile code to install a new applet, or are the
> >>>> applets interpreted (e.g. Python code) so that users can just
> >>>> install an
> >>>> applet and it will just work without needing to do extra complicated
> >>>> things like compile code?
> >>>
> >>> Yes, for Python applet, user can use awn-manager to install directly,
> >>> no compile needed. For C, need to build and install.
> >>
> >> That's good to hear. You could also explain this in the materials a bit
> >> more.
> >
> > Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal.
> >>
> >>>>> If someone develop the applet for AWN, should follow Applet
> >>>>> Submission at http://wiki.awn-project.org/Awn_Extras:Applet_Submission
> >>>>
> >>>> Could you give some examples of what sorts of applets are available for
> >>>> this framework?
> >>>
> >>> See http://wiki.awn-project.org/Applets:DevelopmentGuidelines, where
> >>> list the detailed guideline on what the applet should be.
> >>> You also can download awn-extras, there are some stable example.
> >>
> >> It doesn't seem like we have spent enough effort figuring out which
> >> plugins we should/could be including by default. Wouldn't
> >> avant-window-navigator be more useful if we shipped some plugin
> >> features with it?
> > They generally used to make the display effect better to look, so not
> > necessary.
> >> Do other distros ship any plugins with it?
> >> Perhaps we should follow the general community lead here. Though
> >> this could also be managed in a separate case, rather than this
> >> case.
> > From the webpage, the plugin is with awn-extras, so should in another
> > project. And most of plugins are Ubuntu-special.
> >>
> >>>> What applets are installed by default and what do they do?
> >>>
> >>> Currently from what I can see, there is only 1 applet installed by
> >>> default, it is Launch/Taskmanager, in order to add some other, have
> >>> to use awn-extras.
> >>
> >> It would be nice if the case materials explained more about the one
> >> applet that is installed by default, and what it does, in more detail.
> > Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal.
> >
> >>
> >>>> How active are third parties or individuals at creating applets?
> >>> It really depend on the individual who like to contribute his applet
> >>> to AWN, from what I can see, there definitely are quite some new
> >>> applets provided by some developers.
> >>
> >> There sure are. I'm curious what applets other distributions might be
> >> including by default.
> > In AWN, by default there is only one applet, all other applets need to
> > be added by awn-extras, I discussed with the community yesterday, they
> > told me "There are some plans to include more applets in the core
> > installation."
> >>
> >>>> I notice the Applet Gallery you describe is here:
> >>>> http://wiki.awn-project.org/Applet_Gallery
> >>>>
> >>>> Which ones will we be shipping, if any?
> >>> Most of the applets listed in Gallery are just in awn-extra, also
> >>> there are some applets contributed by some developers, awn-extras is
> >>> another different project, I tried to build it, failed, because all
> >>> of applets are in this package, some applet need different
> >>> dependencies, some of them are missing on Solaris, e.g.
> >>> python-alsaaudio.
> >>
> >> On Solaris, we support SunAudio and will hopefully soon support OSS. So
> >> any applets which depend on ALSA would obviously not work. It would be
> >> nice if we provided (at the very least) a spec-file in spec-files-extra
> >> to allow people to more easily build whatever extra plugins do work on
> >> Solaris.
> > Will do once got time..
> >>
> >>>> Although it does look cool, I worry that it will confuse users if we
> >>>> provide another interface that works very similar to gnome-panel. I
> >>>> would appreciate more information about what our future plans are.
> >>>> Will
> >>>> avant-window-navigator replace gnome-panel, will it be used together
> >>>> with gnome-panel, or is it expected that users will pick one or the
> >>>> other to use? Perhaps you could explain a bit how you expect users
> >>>> would actually use this in relation to gnome-panel.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, It's a big concern now, we have gnome-panel, should we ship AWN?
> >>> At the moment, AWN can't replace gnome-panel, reason below:
> >>> 1, AWN need compositing support, it means before run AWN, you have to
> >>> make Compiz start, then AWN can run, so in the non-Compiz
> >>> environment, we can only use gnome-panel.
> >>> 2, There is no launch menu by default in AWN, and the AWN menu can't
> >>> updates when applications are installed.
> >>> 3, Trash in AWN is not stable enough now.
> >>> 4, maybe something others I did not dig out..
> >>
> >> Whether we ship AWN for these reasons is obviously a business decision
> >> for the team to make. It shouldn't affect whether the ARC case is
> >> approved or not. It might make most sense to integrate it when the
> >> above issues are addressed. However, I would make sure you file bugs
> >> upstream (probably with both the AWN and gnome-panel projects) to see
> >> if we can encourage the upstream maintainers to address some of these
> >> issues (along with the a11y issues).
> >>
> >> I'd talk it over with your project team.
> > Yes, I did discuss with the project team, and I noticed they have
> > realized these issue, and discussing how to fix them, but no schedule now.
> >>
> >>>> If they are intended to be used together, then is it likely that users
> >>>> be confused by having two sets of interfaces that do very similar
> >>>> things?
> >>>
> >>> Yes, this issue also bother me, so I'd say AWN can provide some
> >>> different experience which gnome-panel can't provide, e.g. 3D..
> >>> So if user like to taste, he can download and use it.
> >>
> >> Right.
> >>
> >>>> managers (metacity and compiz). Users can easily manage switching
> >>>> between the two because the GNOME configuration dialogs allows users to
> >>>> pick which one they will use. This way users are prevented from
> >>>> possibly trying to run both at the same time, making a more sane user
> >>>> experience. Is switching back and forth between gnome-panel and
> >>>> avant-window-navigator managed in a similar simple fashion?
> >>>
> >>> by now it's impossible to switch between them, because we can't
> >>> remove gnome-panel.
> >>
> >> Seems it would be neat to enhance the desktop so users could more easily
> >> switch between them if they wanted.
> > Yes, I agree, so in Ubuntu, they generally close the gnome-panel at the
> > bottom, and only make the top panel run, and AWN run at the bottom of
> > screen, I think we can do in this way, and it's planned that AWN will be
> > placed anywhere of screen, so in the future, we can make these 2 work
> > together better..
> >
> >>
> >>>> Will we be integrating any of these Extra plugins with this case, or a
> >>>> separate case? Or are you just informing us that end users can install
> >>>> additional applets if they wish?
> >>>
> >>> They should be in awn-extras, it's another project, we may consider
> >>> to deliver it separately.
> >>
> >> Makes sense.
> >>
> >> Brian
> plain text document attachment (awn-project-plan.txt)
> Item Name Owner Start Date Expected Completion comments
>
> Project Plan
>
> ARC one-pager Done.
>
> ARC fast track ongoing
>
> Open Source Review done
>
> ECCN Not start
>
> Porting done
>
> spec/SUNWspec file done to spec-files-other/core
>
> copyright file done to spec-files-other/copyright
>
> G11n done need send a request to Takao.Fujiwara at Sun.COM and cc desktop-discuss at opensolaris.org
>
> launch menu, done need to send the .desktop file to calum benson, have a description of your project and why you want to put it to the menu.
>
> ARC Material not start dump -Lv/ CLI.txt(--help)/ manpage / schemas/ pkgmap
>
> manpage not start
>
> test&fix not start
>
> ======================= Not necessary ==============================================
> Cteam Checklist HenryZ Mar. 1 07 Mar. 15 07 Not necessary
>
> Contract HenryZ Mar. 20 07 Mar. 30 07 ongoing
>
> TPT HenryZ Mar. 19 07 Mar. 21 07 Done. And store at /net/solaris.eng/benet/S11/TPT/JDS/virt-manager
>
> "What's New" Form at http://releaseme.sfbay/new_features_input.html
>
> Write Test Plan PatrickG Dec. 18 06 Dec. 23 06 Done,
>
> UI review Calum Nov. 21 06 Nov. 30 06 Have sent mail to Calum,
>
> Pre-integration Test PatrickG Mar. 22 07 Apr. 15 07 Preparing by Patrick Gu
>
> A11Y testing TimM Mar. 22 07 Apr. 20 07 Need confirm from TimM
>
> L10n HelenW Dec. 25 06 Jan. 01 07 Need confirm from HelenW
>
> TOI
>
> Doc plan manpages, project plan, TPT, What's New doc(S10U) etc.
>
> Pre-integ Bug Fixing HenryZ Apr. 15 07 Apr. 30 07 B65 code freeze date is May 4 07, but there is holiday on May 1~7
>
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