avant-window-navigator for OpenSolaris [LSARC/2008/452 FastTrack timeout 07/22/2008]

Wed Jul 30 19:45:33 PDT 2008

Have to resend because of wrong attachment..

Now the correct one is attached..
;)

Thanks,
Henry

Henry Zhang 写道:
> Hi all,
> 
> I made some changes on the proposal to make it neat, please check.
> Thank Brian for review...
> 
> Regards,
> Henry
> 
> Henry Zhang 写道:
>> Hi Brain, See my answer in-line,
>>
>> And I finished the proposal to add some change from the discussing, 
>> see attachement.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Henry
>>
>> Brian Cameron 写道:
>>>
>>> Henry:
>>>
>>>>> What is the accessibility impact of this new mechanism of accessing
>>>>> "applet like things"?  Does this "just work" with accessibility?  If
>>>>> not, what is our plan to make it accessible?
>>>>
>>>> AWN is used to manage the running task, and some applets. We can use 
>>>> Ctl+Alt+Tab to access the running task, it should be accessibility 
>>>> support.
>>>> For the applets in AWN, no way to access them through keyboard by now.
>>>
>>> I think it would be good to discuss some sort of get-well plan for a11y
>>> in the materials.
>>
>> These days I discussed accessibility support with the community, they 
>> confirm me that they have not consider this issue, I will try to push 
>> them to see if they can do some work on it, at least I can see they 
>> begin to think add some support so that user can access AWN by keyboard.
>> And by now we can use Ctl+Alt+Tab to switch in the running 
>> applications, so these should be support accessibility.
>>>
>>>>> Also, how does this relate to gDesklets?  Although giving users choice
>>>>> to customize their desktop is a good thing, I hope we aren't going to
>>>>> end up with a mish-mash of random eyecandy that doesn't work well or
>>>>> integrate together.
>>>>
>>>> There is no confliction between gDesklets and AWN, gDesklets used to 
>>>> place the applets to desktop, AWN will run applets in its dock. The 
>>>> applets is different, for gDesklets, using .display file, while AWN 
>>>> need  .desktop file in the applet package.
>>>
>>> Might be good to explain the relationship between gnome-panel,
>>> gDesklets, and avant-window-navigator in the materials a bit more.
>> Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal.
>>>
>>>>> Do users need to compile code to install a new applet, or are the
>>>>> applets interpreted (e.g. Python code) so that users can just 
>>>>> install an
>>>>> applet and it will just work without needing to do extra complicated
>>>>> things like compile code?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, for Python applet, user can use awn-manager to install 
>>>> directly, no compile needed. For C, need to build and install.
>>>
>>> That's good to hear.  You could also explain this in the materials a bit
>>> more.
>>
>> Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal.
>>>
>>>>>> If someone develop the applet for AWN, should follow Applet        
>>>>>> Submission at 
>>>>>> http://wiki.awn-project.org/Awn_Extras:Applet_Submission
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you give some examples of what sorts of applets are available 
>>>>> for
>>>>> this framework?  
>>>>
>>>> See http://wiki.awn-project.org/Applets:DevelopmentGuidelines, where 
>>>> list the detailed guideline on what the applet should be.
>>>> You also can download awn-extras, there are some stable example.
>>>
>>> It doesn't seem like we have spent enough effort figuring out which
>>> plugins we should/could be including by default.  Wouldn't
>>> avant-window-navigator be more useful if we shipped some plugin
>>> features with it?  
>> They generally used to make the display effect better to look, so not 
>> necessary.
>>> Do other distros ship any plugins with it?
>>> Perhaps we should follow the general community lead here.  Though
>>> this could also be managed in a separate case, rather than this
>>> case.
>>  From the webpage, the plugin is with awn-extras, so should in another 
>> project. And most of plugins are Ubuntu-special.
>>>
>>>>> What applets are installed by default and what do they do?  
>>>>
>>>> Currently from what I can see, there is only 1 applet installed by 
>>>> default, it is Launch/Taskmanager, in order to add some other, have 
>>>> to use awn-extras.
>>>
>>> It would be nice if the case materials explained more about the one
>>> applet that is installed by default, and what it does, in more detail.
>> Added soome explanation on Details of the proposal.
>>
>>>
>>>>> How active are third parties or individuals at creating applets?
>>>> It really depend on the individual who like to contribute his applet 
>>>> to AWN, from what I can see, there definitely are quite some new 
>>>> applets provided by some developers.
>>>
>>> There sure are.  I'm curious what applets other distributions might be
>>> including by default.
>> In AWN, by default there is only one applet, all other applets need to 
>> be added by awn-extras, I discussed with the community yesterday, they 
>> told me "There are some plans to include more applets in the core 
>> installation."
>>>
>>>>> I notice the Applet Gallery you describe is here:
>>>>>                          http://wiki.awn-project.org/Applet_Gallery
>>>>>
>>>>> Which ones will we be shipping, if any?
>>>> Most of the applets listed in Gallery are just in awn-extra, also 
>>>> there are some applets contributed by some developers, awn-extras is 
>>>> another different project, I tried to build it, failed, because all 
>>>> of applets are in this package, some applet need different 
>>>> dependencies, some of them are missing on Solaris, e.g. 
>>>> python-alsaaudio.
>>>
>>> On Solaris, we support SunAudio and will hopefully soon support OSS.  So
>>> any applets which depend on ALSA would obviously not work.  It would be
>>> nice if we provided (at the very least) a spec-file in spec-files-extra
>>> to allow people to more easily build whatever extra plugins do work on
>>> Solaris.
>> Will do once got time..
>>>
>>>>> Although it does look cool, I worry that it will confuse users if we
>>>>> provide another interface that works very similar to gnome-panel.  I
>>>>> would appreciate more information about what our future plans are.  
>>>>> Will
>>>>> avant-window-navigator replace gnome-panel, will it be used together
>>>>> with gnome-panel, or is it expected that users will pick one or the
>>>>> other to use?  Perhaps you could explain a bit how you expect users
>>>>> would actually use this in relation to gnome-panel.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, It's a big concern now, we have gnome-panel, should we ship AWN?
>>>> At the moment, AWN can't replace gnome-panel, reason below:
>>>> 1, AWN need compositing support, it means before run AWN, you have 
>>>> to make Compiz start, then AWN can run, so in the non-Compiz 
>>>> environment, we can only use gnome-panel.
>>>> 2, There is no launch menu by default in AWN, and the AWN menu can't 
>>>> updates when applications are installed.
>>>> 3, Trash in AWN is not stable enough now.
>>>> 4, maybe something others I did not dig out..
>>>
>>> Whether we ship AWN for these reasons is obviously a business decision
>>> for the team to make.  It shouldn't affect whether the ARC case is
>>> approved or not.  It might make most sense to integrate it when the
>>> above issues are addressed.  However, I would make sure you file bugs
>>> upstream (probably with both the AWN and gnome-panel projects) to see
>>> if we can encourage the upstream maintainers to address some of these
>>> issues (along with the a11y issues).
>>>
>>> I'd talk it over with your project team.
>> Yes, I did discuss with the project team, and I noticed they have 
>> realized these issue, and discussing how to fix them, but no schedule 
>> now.
>>>
>>>>> If they are intended to be used together, then is it likely that users
>>>>> be confused by having two sets of interfaces that do very similar
>>>>> things?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, this issue also bother me, so I'd say AWN can provide some 
>>>> different experience which gnome-panel can't provide, e.g. 3D..
>>>> So if user like to taste, he can download and use it.
>>>
>>> Right.
>>>
>>>>> managers (metacity and compiz).  Users can easily manage switching
>>>>> between the two because the GNOME configuration dialogs allows 
>>>>> users to
>>>>> pick which one they will use.  This way users are prevented from
>>>>> possibly trying to run both at the same time, making a more sane user
>>>>> experience.  Is switching back and forth between gnome-panel and
>>>>> avant-window-navigator managed in a similar simple fashion?
>>>>
>>>> by now it's impossible to switch between them, because we can't 
>>>> remove gnome-panel.
>>>
>>> Seems it would be neat to enhance the desktop so users could more easily
>>> switch between them if they wanted.
>> Yes, I agree, so in Ubuntu, they generally close the gnome-panel at 
>> the bottom, and only make the top panel run, and AWN run at the bottom 
>> of screen, I think we can do in this way, and it's planned that AWN 
>> will be placed anywhere of screen, so in the future, we can make these 
>> 2 work together better..
>>
>>>
>>>>> Will we be integrating any of these Extra plugins with this case, or a
>>>>> separate case?  Or are you just informing us that end users can 
>>>>> install
>>>>> additional applets if they wish?
>>>>
>>>> They should be in awn-extras, it's another project, we may consider 
>>>> to deliver it separately.
>>>
>>> Makes sense.
>>>
>>> Brian
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: proposal-one-pager-awn.txt
URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-arc/attachments/20080731/74bfe2a7/attachment.txt>