[osol-mktg] OpenSolaris Download Statistics ?

[Claire Giordano]

I concede that you have a good point.  So there.

Let's see what Patrick and Derek propose tomorrow.  Patrick has just gone to bed 
but I'm sure we'll see email from him tomorrow.

I'm ok just presenting the dilemma to the community with requests for input and 
then making a decision based on more information.

BTW - this is a drop in the bucket in so many ways.  Patrick is putting together 
a much more comprehensive proposal to figure out what we want to measure, what 
we can measure, and what matters.  The goal is to use the metrics not only to 
assess success of the program, but also to change perception, and to incent 
certain kinds of behavior.

I'm pushing for transparent use of metrics as a way to incent behavior.  Look at 
how the blogs.sun.com Top Blogs list incents behavior.  As do the Flickr numbers 
about number of views of photos, etc.  I'd like to see more and more use of 
metrics on the website itself (but of course Patrick is looking at metrics that 
go well beyond the website.)

Stay tuned,
Claire

Stephen Harpster wrote:

> As I said in my previous email, I think it's actually *more* transparent
> to say we don't know rather than guess.  And nobody ever asks how many
> people downloaded the Linux kernel from kernel.org, so there.  :-P
> 
> I will defer to you and Simon, but I find the numbers statistically
> meaningless and fear they will only come back to bite us.
> 
> 
> 
> Claire Giordano wrote:
> 
> 
>>Stephen:
>>
>>I initially had the perspective that to release bogus numbers would cause more 
>>headaches than it would benefit.
>>
>>Then, after further discussion, I realized that transparency is actually more 
>>important.  So I propose that we share what we have - but both Simon and I do 
>>not want the info shared as originally proposed (where the many people who scan 
>>email will find it easy to grab the misleading numbers and run) but rather to 
>>share it embedded in the request for ideas.  It's quite possible that we'll get 
>>some good input from people about how to handle this - at which point we can 
>>decide what yardsticks we will use to measure downloads...
>>
>>Claire
>>
>>Simon Phipps wrote:
>> 
>>
>>
>>>On Jul 12, 2005, at 22:01, Derek Cicero wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>>Stephen Harpster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Why do it then? This just seems ripe for a PR disaster. I know people
>>>>>are asking for numbers, but explain to them that there's no way to  
>>>>>track
>>>>>them and let it go at that. We don't have to do everything people ask
>>>>>for, you know.
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What is it that we are worried about? Is it that the numbers aren't  
>>>>going to be 100% accurate? I think we can logically explain that and  
>>>>provide a ballpark figure. Are we worried that the numbers we release  
>>>>will be far lower than other open source offerings? The answer is 
>>>>that  they will be, at least compared to Linux, OO.org, Firefox, etc,  
>>>>regardless of whether the number is 100% accurate or just a ballpark  
>>>>figure. I think not releasing any numbers causes more PR trouble than  
>>>>anything.
>>>>
>>>>I think we should just be open with people.
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>
>>>I agree with this, which is why I agree with Claire's proposal. We have  
>>>to be open about the uncertainty too, and we have to ensure our own  
>>>executives and others maintain that transparency.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>>btw - Patrick and I are getting together in an hour so we can come up  
>>>>with a proposal.
>>>>
>>>>Derek
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Claire Giordano wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Simon and I did talk about the number of downloads just before the  
>>>>>>break, and...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We agree it makes sense to turn to the community to ask for  
>>>>>>ideas/suggestions
>>>>>>about how to track the number of OpenSolaris downloads (of source 
>>>>>>or  binaries or
>>>>>>both?) given the use of BitTorrent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We're both ok sharing the numbers we do have, but we don't want to  
>>>>>>share them in
>>>>>>a way in which people will just take the numbers and run if they  
>>>>>>scan the email
>>>>>>quickly. Providing the current numbers (which could be way low) in 
>>>>>>a  easily
>>>>>>scannable table or list seems like a recipe for misinterpretation.  
>>>>>>So, we want
>>>>>>the numbers we have to be embedded in a question. This needs work,  
>>>>>>but here's a
>>>>>>feel for what we're thinking of:
>>>>>>..................................................................... 
>>>>>>..........
>>>>>>People have been asking about the OpenSolaris download numbers (and  
>>>>>>about other
>>>>>>metrics as well.) Patrick Finch will be following up about metrics  for
>>>>>>OpenSolaris in general, and we plan to provide useful metrics as  
>>>>>>part of the
>>>>>>website moving forward. In the meantime, we wanted some input about  
>>>>>>how to
>>>>>>track downloads given that we're using BitTorrent, a P2P system 
>>>>>>that  makes it
>>>>>>more difficult to track how many people have actually downloaded 
>>>>>>the  source and
>>>>>>binaries. We know that there have been xxx downloads from SDLC and  yyy
>>>>>>downloads from Genunix.org, but for BitTorrent the numbers are more  
>>>>>>spotty --
>>>>>>currently we have detected zzz. This means that the current total 
>>>>>>is  AAA, but
>>>>>>of course, that could be way low, and perhaps the real number is  
>>>>>>significantly
>>>>>>higher.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Suggestions????
>>>>>>..................................................................... 
>>>>>>..........
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Patrick - can you pls regroup with Derek and figure out how to  
>>>>>>proceed? We do
>>>>>>need to follow up with the community on this, somehow, this week...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>Claire
>>>>>>
>>>>>>patrick finch wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>
> 
>