From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Mon Apr 2 20:25:13 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:25:13 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs Message-ID: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> Hello ... I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User Group Community: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ It seems to me that both communities could benefit from a merger -- especially under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Both communities have many things in common -- they engage new people around the world via various programs and direct meetings and conferences, their list memberships are pretty similar, and they share some content as well. It would seem to make sense that they merge to focus their resources on some common goals and under a new name. I'm starting this conversation here so we can flush out the issues and agree (or not agree) before we go to the website team and the OGB, both of which will have to be involved in any merger. So, any thoughts pro or con? Jim -- Jim Grisanzio, Community Manager, OpenSolaris http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris | http://opensolaris.org/os/ From Xinfeng.Liu at Sun.COM Mon Apr 2 20:41:52 2007 From: Xinfeng.Liu at Sun.COM (Xin-Feng Liu) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 11:41:52 +0800 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> I agree on the idea. The only comment is to make sure not to lower the visibility of marketing community/contents. In the current user_group home page(on the left side of the screen), the user group list is too long and not very easy to look up. It might be better to reorganize the content in that screen section. Thanks, Xinfeng Liu Shanghai User Group Jim Grisanzio wrote On 2007?04?03? 11:25,: > Hello ... > > I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User > Group Community: > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ > > It seems to me that both communities could benefit from a merger -- > especially under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Both communities have > many things in common -- they engage new people around the world via > various programs and direct meetings and conferences, their list > memberships are pretty similar, and they share some content as well. It > would seem to make sense that they merge to focus their resources on > some common goals and under a new name. > > I'm starting this conversation here so we can flush out the issues and > agree (or not agree) before we go to the website team and the OGB, both > of which will have to be involved in any merger. > > So, any thoughts pro or con? > > Jim From Brian.Cameron at Sun.COM Mon Apr 2 21:52:27 2007 From: Brian.Cameron at Sun.COM (Brian Cameron) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:52:27 +0800 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Audio File Support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4611DD8B.50506@sun.com> Kaiwai: The JDS multimedia team has the following FAQ which discusses the different media programs on Solaris and their functionality. You might find this useful: http://sceri.prc.sun.com/wiki//index.php/RealPlayer_Supportted_file_type#FAQ Ignore the fact that the URL indicates it is RealPlayer specific. It also discusses other programs, such as GStreamer and JMP (Java Media Player). From your email, it sounds like you are considering contacting Fluendo and making some deals with them. If so, perhaps you and I should talk (or trade emails) becuase I have been the main point-person in our discussions with them so far. For example, I was the person who arranged to provide them with a Sparc machine so that they can build their proprietary WMA/WMV plugins for the Sparc platform (their NDA agreement with Microsoft requires that only Fluendo employees can actually build the code). It would probably be good to avoid covering old ground with them, so you should probably be aware of what has been discussed with them so far. - We have had discussions with them about purchasing WMA, WMV, MPEG2, and MPEG4 licenses. They can sell the licenses per-user or a full license allowing us to ship the plugins with all Solaris distributions. We have also had similar discussions with Real. They also offer the same plugins for similar prices. These discussions have always broken down because Sun doesn't want to pay the money for the full license. The main reason seems to be that only a subset of Solaris users really use media, and it doesn't make sense to increase the cost of Solaris for all users when only a subset benefit. It would probably be much cheaper for Sun to buy a batch of per-user licenses and provide them in the download center for registered users (either for free or for a small fee - much cheaper than the current price at the Fluendo store). But this option seems to never get much consideration. The decision of whether it makes more sense to buy Real or GStreamer plugins has been a difficult one for many people to get their head around. Real seems able to offer the plugins at a slightly cheaper price, but remember that MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 are used in DVD formats so any future DVD solution would need access to these plugins to play most common DVD's. GStreamer seems to be in a better situation to provide a DVD player, but I would imagine that we could negotiate with Real to offer a DVD solution if we wanted. Note that RealPlayer is a playback only tool while GStreamer supports playback, recording and media conversion. So, it might make more sense to support GStreamer since there is more opportunity for supporting more types of media usage. - Fluendo's MPEG2 and MPEG4 plugins don't yet work on Solaris. This is because their plugins currently use the IPP (Intel Performance Primitives) library. Talking with the mediaLib team, it would take a "few months" to convert these plugins to using mediaLib or Solaris native code. Fluendo has told us that if their current WMA/WMV Solaris plugins sell well enough, they will consider doing the work to port the MPEG2 and MPEG4 plugins to Solaris. If we want the plugins available sooner, they suggest we help with funding (which could include wanting to purchase a site license or enough per-user licenses). Note these plugins will be necessary for any DVD solution to work. I've been working with the mediaLib team on an alternative solution. They already have MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 code that works with mediaLib that we can probably share with Fluendo and allow them to resell. I'm currently working with the mediaLib team to see if this can be worked out. If so, we can avoid needing to wait for them to port, and avoid having to fund anything. - I think a MP3 encoding plugin would also be a big nice-to-have. They currently don't offer such a solution, and Solaris doesn't allow you to encode to MP3. I don't suspect WMV encoding is something that we really need to pursue right now since there aren't really any good video creation tools available yet - though hopefully this might change over time. Also, is WMA encoding really something we need? Do many people really create their own WMA files? I'd say MP3 encoding is probably the one audio encoder that we are missing that would be nice to have. Not sure if this really relates to your plans, but if you are going to talk to Fluendo, perhaps it's good for you to be aware of what we've been doing with them so far? If you want to talk further, please just let me know. Brian > On 31/03/07, *Kaiwai Gardiner* > wrote: > > Hi, > > Just having a look around; along with hardware support, I thought it > would be best to help provide a 'link database' to link up customer > needs to solutions that exist for Solaris. > > Case in point, https://shop.fluendo.com/ who sell currently support > for WMA/WMV/Mp3 playback for Solaris x86/SPARC - and from what I > understand, the compresssion side of the equation will be arriving > soon. > > Not only will this help first time users in regars to helping them > resolve support issues relating to multimedia, it'll also provide a > good platform in which Solaris solution provides can directly > contact customers and vice versa, without needing to navigate the > beaucracy that is Sun - if this provides free publicitly, hopefully > it'll entice more vendors to come on board and provide Solaris > editions of their software. > > What does everyone else thing? > > Matt > > > Just a follow up to this; before I go ahead and do anything, I'm looking > at communicating with Fluendo and OpenSound to see if some sort of > "OpenSolaris Multimedia" package which at a reduce price for a packaged > deal, which will bring OpenSolaris forward in regards to its multi-media > capabilities - DVD play back, WMA/WMV decode/encode support through the > gstreamer framework, and improved soundcard support via the use of > OpenSound. > > Matt > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris.org From Brian.Cameron at Sun.COM Mon Apr 2 22:06:25 2007 From: Brian.Cameron at Sun.COM (Brian Cameron) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 13:06:25 +0800 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Audio File Support In-Reply-To: <4611DD8B.50506@sun.com> References: <4611DD8B.50506@sun.com> Message-ID: <4611E0D1.3040001@sun.com> Kaiwai: Oh, another thing to consider. Remember that Fluendo's plugins only work with GStreamer 0.10. Unfortunately GStreamer 0.10 is *not* compatible with GStreamer 0.8, which is what we ship on Solaris 10. If there is a desire to support Fluendo's advanced plugins on Solaris 10, then it would be necessary to backport the GStreamer 0.10 engine back to Solaris 10. This would be a bit of work, but not impossible, if marketing felt it was desirable. Or, perhaps, it makes more sense to just focus on the future and make the next release of Solaris (or the Developer Express releases) the place where Solaris becomes media savvy? Brian > The JDS multimedia team has the following FAQ which discusses the > different media programs on Solaris and their functionality. You > might find this useful: > > http://sceri.prc.sun.com/wiki//index.php/RealPlayer_Supportted_file_type#FAQ > > > Ignore the fact that the URL indicates it is RealPlayer specific. It > also discusses other programs, such as GStreamer and JMP (Java Media > Player). > > From your email, it sounds like you are considering contacting Fluendo > and making some deals with them. If so, perhaps you and I should talk > (or trade emails) becuase I have been the main point-person in our > discussions with them so far. For example, I was the person who > arranged to provide them with a Sparc machine so that they can build > their proprietary WMA/WMV plugins for the Sparc platform (their NDA > agreement with Microsoft requires that only Fluendo employees can > actually build the code). > > It would probably be good to avoid covering old ground with them, so > you should probably be aware of what has been discussed with them so > far. > > - We have had discussions with them about purchasing WMA, WMV, MPEG2, > and MPEG4 licenses. They can sell the licenses per-user or a full > license allowing us to ship the plugins with all Solaris > distributions. We have also had similar discussions with Real. > They also offer the same plugins for similar prices. > > These discussions have always broken down because Sun doesn't want > to pay the money for the full license. The main reason seems to be > that only a subset of Solaris users really use media, and it doesn't > make sense to increase the cost of Solaris for all users when only > a subset benefit. It would probably be much cheaper for Sun to buy > a batch of per-user licenses and provide them in the download > center for registered users (either for free or for a small fee - > much cheaper than the current price at the Fluendo store). But this > option seems to never get much consideration. > > The decision of whether it makes more sense to buy Real or GStreamer > plugins has been a difficult one for many people to get their head > around. Real seems able to offer the plugins at a slightly cheaper > price, but remember that MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 are used in DVD formats > so any future DVD solution would need access to these plugins to > play most common DVD's. GStreamer seems to be in a better situation > to provide a DVD player, but I would imagine that we could negotiate > with Real to offer a DVD solution if we wanted. > > Note that RealPlayer is a playback only tool while GStreamer supports > playback, recording and media conversion. So, it might make more > sense to support GStreamer since there is more opportunity for > supporting more types of media usage. > > - Fluendo's MPEG2 and MPEG4 plugins don't yet work on Solaris. This > is because their plugins currently use the IPP (Intel Performance > Primitives) library. Talking with the mediaLib team, it would take > a "few months" to convert these plugins to using mediaLib or Solaris > native code. Fluendo has told us that if their current WMA/WMV > Solaris plugins sell well enough, they will consider doing the work > to port the MPEG2 and MPEG4 plugins to Solaris. If we want the > plugins available sooner, they suggest we help with funding (which > could include wanting to purchase a site license or enough per-user > licenses). Note these plugins will be necessary for any DVD solution > to work. > > I've been working with the mediaLib team on an alternative solution. > They already have MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 code that works with mediaLib > that we can probably share with Fluendo and allow them to resell. > I'm currently working with the mediaLib team to see if this can > be worked out. If so, we can avoid needing to wait for them to > port, and avoid having to fund anything. > > - I think a MP3 encoding plugin would also be a big nice-to-have. > They currently don't offer such a solution, and Solaris doesn't allow > you to encode to MP3. I don't suspect WMV encoding is something > that we really need to pursue right now since there aren't really > any good video creation tools available yet - though hopefully this > might change over time. Also, is WMA encoding really something we > need? Do many people really create their own WMA files? I'd say > MP3 encoding is probably the one audio encoder that we are missing > that would be nice to have. > > Not sure if this really relates to your plans, but if you are going to > talk to Fluendo, perhaps it's good for you to be aware of what we've > been doing with them so far? If you want to talk further, please just > let me know. > > Brian > > >> On 31/03/07, *Kaiwai Gardiner* > > wrote: >> >> Hi, >> Just having a look around; along with hardware support, I >> thought it >> would be best to help provide a 'link database' to link up customer >> needs to solutions that exist for Solaris. >> Case in point, https://shop.fluendo.com/ who sell currently >> support >> for WMA/WMV/Mp3 playback for Solaris x86/SPARC - and from what I >> understand, the compresssion side of the equation will be arriving >> soon. >> Not only will this help first time users in regars to helping >> them >> resolve support issues relating to multimedia, it'll also provide a >> good platform in which Solaris solution provides can directly >> contact customers and vice versa, without needing to navigate the >> beaucracy that is Sun - if this provides free publicitly, hopefully >> it'll entice more vendors to come on board and provide Solaris >> editions of their software. >> What does everyone else thing? >> Matt >> >> >> Just a follow up to this; before I go ahead and do anything, I'm >> looking at communicating with Fluendo and OpenSound to see if some >> sort of "OpenSolaris Multimedia" package which at a reduce price for a >> packaged deal, which will bring OpenSolaris forward in regards to its >> multi-media capabilities - DVD play back, WMA/WMV decode/encode >> support through the gstreamer framework, and improved soundcard >> support via the use of OpenSound. >> >> Matt >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-discuss mailing list >> opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris.org > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris.org From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Mon Apr 2 22:16:51 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:16:51 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4611E343.2080605@sun.com> Xin-Feng Liu wrote: > I agree on the idea. > The only comment is to make sure not to lower the visibility of > marketing community/contents. In the current user_group home page(on the > left side of the screen), the user group list is too long and not very > easy to look up. It might be better to reorganize the content in that > screen section. > > Thanks, > Xinfeng Liu > Shanghai User Group Hi ... Yes, the problem of the nav bar is tied to the site structure itself and also that we have a lot of UG's now so the list is quite long and the nesting can be confusing. We'll have to work around that until it's changed. But, sure, I don't want to reduce anyone's visibility so much as I'd like to focus things more. Thanks, Jim -- Jim Grisanzio, Community Manager, OpenSolaris http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris | http://opensolaris.org/os/ > Jim Grisanzio wrote On 2007?04?03? 11:25,: >> Hello ... >> >> I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User >> Group Community: >> >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ >> >> It seems to me that both communities could benefit from a merger -- >> especially under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Both communities have >> many things in common -- they engage new people around the world via >> various programs and direct meetings and conferences, their list >> memberships are pretty similar, and they share some content as well. It >> would seem to make sense that they merge to focus their resources on >> some common goals and under a new name. >> >> I'm starting this conversation here so we can flush out the issues and >> agree (or not agree) before we go to the website team and the OGB, both >> of which will have to be involved in any merger. >> >> So, any thoughts pro or con? >> >> Jim > > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org From Bruno.Souza at Sun.COM Mon Apr 2 22:19:44 2007 From: Bruno.Souza at Sun.COM (Bruno F. Souza) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 02:19:44 -0300 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On the UG community, we could include the Mkt content as a clearly separated, on the top, and merge it with any general content for supporting the creation and run of UGs. The question then becomes: if someone comes looking for OS User Groups, they will know how to find. Now, if someone comes looking for material to promote OS? Will they find it at the UGs Community? Will this be obvious? Bruno. On 03/04/2007, at 00:41, Xin-Feng Liu wrote: > I agree on the idea. > The only comment is to make sure not to lower the visibility of > marketing community/contents. In the current user_group home page > (on the > left side of the screen), the user group list is too long and not very > easy to look up. It might be better to reorganize the content in that > screen section. > > Thanks, > Xinfeng Liu > Shanghai User Group > > > Jim Grisanzio wrote On 2007?04?03? 11:25,: >> Hello ... >> >> I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the >> User >> Group Community: >> >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ >> >> It seems to me that both communities could benefit from a merger -- >> especially under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Both >> communities have >> many things in common -- they engage new people around the world via >> various programs and direct meetings and conferences, their list >> memberships are pretty similar, and they share some content as >> well. It >> would seem to make sense that they merge to focus their resources on >> some common goals and under a new name. >> >> I'm starting this conversation here so we can flush out the issues >> and >> agree (or not agree) before we go to the website team and the OGB, >> both >> of which will have to be involved in any merger. >> >> So, any thoughts pro or con? >> >> Jim > > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org Bruno. ______________________________________________________________________ Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe From kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com Mon Apr 2 22:31:30 2007 From: kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com (Kaiwai Gardiner) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:31:30 +1200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> Message-ID: Hi, For me, I don't think the two should merge as both groups have different goals; Marketing is setup to evangelise OpenSolaris and its respective technologies to the rest of the 'industry' (used int he most loosest of terms) and to develop dialogue with the user community, which hopefully can then be relayed to the programmers and those who do the design, analysis and implementation - call us the intemediary between the users and the worker bee's. What I do propose, however, is for the two to have a closer working relationship, as dialogue between the marketing and user group(s) is necessary for the 'worker bee's' to know what customers want, who current sit outside the Sun 'customer list' - the end users *could* pass long requests directly, but the better way would be for us to consolidate the issues into one voice so that there is a consist voice with a matrix of issues that concern them. End users will also be able to help provide feed back on the effectiveness of marketing on 'the unwashed masses' - whether the right avenue's are being used to market OpenSolaris given the market demographic which we are trying to aim for - if we're trying to aim for CIO's, is it smarter to market on Slashdot or the coffee magazine which the executive has at their coffee table? Matthew On 03/04/07, Bruno F. Souza wrote: > > > On the UG community, we could include the Mkt content as a clearly > separated, on the top, and merge it with any general content for > supporting the creation and run of UGs. > > The question then becomes: if someone comes looking for OS User > Groups, they will know how to find. Now, if someone comes looking for > material to promote OS? Will they find it at the UGs Community? Will > this be obvious? > > Bruno. > > On 03/04/2007, at 00:41, Xin-Feng Liu wrote: > > > I agree on the idea. > > The only comment is to make sure not to lower the visibility of > > marketing community/contents. In the current user_group home page > > (on the > > left side of the screen), the user group list is too long and not very > > easy to look up. It might be better to reorganize the content in that > > screen section. > > > > Thanks, > > Xinfeng Liu > > Shanghai User Group > > > > > > Jim Grisanzio wrote On 2007?04?03? 11:25,: > >> Hello ... > >> > >> I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the > >> User > >> Group Community: > >> > >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ > >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ > >> > >> It seems to me that both communities could benefit from a merger -- > >> especially under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Both > >> communities have > >> many things in common -- they engage new people around the world via > >> various programs and direct meetings and conferences, their list > >> memberships are pretty similar, and they share some content as > >> well. It > >> would seem to make sense that they merge to focus their resources on > >> some common goals and under a new name. > >> > >> I'm starting this conversation here so we can flush out the issues > >> and > >> agree (or not agree) before we go to the website team and the OGB, > >> both > >> of which will have to be involved in any merger. > >> > >> So, any thoughts pro or con? > >> > >> Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ug-discuss mailing list > > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org > > Bruno. > ______________________________________________________________________ > Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan > http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br > if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe > > > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com Mon Apr 2 22:56:20 2007 From: kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com (Kaiwai Gardiner) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:56:20 +1200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Audio File Support In-Reply-To: <4611E0D1.3040001@sun.com> References: <4611DD8B.50506@sun.com> <4611E0D1.3040001@sun.com> Message-ID: On 03/04/07, Brian Cameron wrote: > > Kaiwai: > > Oh, another thing to consider. Remember that Fluendo's plugins only > work with GStreamer 0.10. Unfortunately GStreamer 0.10 is *not* > compatible with GStreamer 0.8, which is what we ship on Solaris 10. If > there is a desire to support Fluendo's advanced plugins on Solaris 10, > then it would be necessary to backport the GStreamer 0.10 engine back to > Solaris 10. Solaris 10 'classic' (the current release) as I understand it, has to weigh up the needs of those who wish for stablibility at all costs vs those who want stability but with a degree of modernity in terms of software availability. The better target would be the Solaris Express Developer Edition - which I think should also have a blurb as a 'enthuisast' and 'desktop class' Solaris platform; and target the plugins for that said platform rather than wasting time with Solaris 10 'classic'. This would be a bit of work, but not impossible, if marketing felt > it was desirable. Or, perhaps, it makes more sense to just focus on > the future and make the next release of Solaris (or the Developer > Express releases) the place where Solaris becomes media savvy? Solaris Express Developer Edition needs to be, IMHO, rebranded as "Solaris Workstation Edition" - something that emphasises it as an operating system that would make a great desktop/workstation operating system. The word Express conjures up images of a 'rickety piece of rubbish', 'here is some buggy beta code, thrown into a cd, good luck!" - this then needs to be backed up with a 'respository' for people to download updates and upgrades of software so that complete iso downloads do not need to be downloaded for updates and upgrades, however, have periodic re-spins of iso images every 4months to consolidate the updates - imagine a debiab archive but using srv5 packing and pkg-get for the dependency resolving. Couple that with making the 'on' buid releases, not only as a source download, but included as prebuilt binaries in the form of packages as to allow real world beta testing by end users and developers rather than having an incredibly high entry requirement in regards to getting the ON sources compiled and installed onto an existing Solaris Express Install. With the pricing of Fluendo encoder/decoder, personally, I think that Sun should hold off until the encoder/decoder has been finalised and then go for a bulk deal, either as a one off payment or a continual payment per year for licencing - as for the business case, I think Sun management need to realise that developer interest is a direct result of desktop usage interest; those who programme with Solaris, will use Solaris as a desktop - and mind share is what Sun needs - stop looking at the direct money coming in via licence but those licences generated by software companies writing software, and developers contributing to Solaris via the fact that Solaris first enticed them in as a suitable desktop/workstation operating system. OpenSolaris needs more minds to work on the various parts, and to do that, there needs to be firstly an enticement of features which no other operating system has - multimedia out of the box for instance - be it in the form of mp3, wma, wmv encode/decoding, flash, java, and many other features. Also, the message it shares to other third parties by Sun paying out to Fluendo is this, "we are willing to work with companies, big and small" - don't see it as a money spent, see it as an investment into a third party ecosystem which is sorely lacking right now. Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM Tue Apr 3 04:28:14 2007 From: Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM (Laura Ramsey) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 07:28:14 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4611E343.2080605@sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <4611E343.2080605@sun.com> Message-ID: <46123A4E.3060003@sun.com> Jim Grisanzio wrote: >Xin-Feng Liu wrote: > > >>I agree on the idea. >>The only comment is to make sure not to lower the visibility of >>marketing community/contents. In the current user_group home page(on the >>left side of the screen), the user group list is too long and not very >>easy to look up. It might be better to reorganize the content in that >>screen section. >> >>Thanks, >>Xinfeng Liu >>Shanghai User Group >> >> > > > >Hi ... > >Yes, the problem of the nav bar is tied to the site structure itself and >also that we have a lot of UG's now so the list is quite long and the >nesting can be confusing. We'll have to work around that until it's >changed. But, sure, I don't want to reduce anyone's visibility so much >as I'd like to focus things more. > >Thanks, > > >Jim > > Perhaps organizing the user groups by region --having them nested under the main regional heading pages--would solve the long list problem. Might also help user groups to leverage their geographies better. Combining the user groups with the marketing community (or any community) will push them further from the front page--if we have a button on the Home page that points directly to the user group page that will be solved. So perhaps an icon up on the top next to communities, project, chats...? LKR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM Tue Apr 3 04:29:03 2007 From: Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM (Laura Ramsey) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 07:29:03 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46123A7F.6030506@sun.com> Bruno F. Souza wrote: > > On the UG community, we could include the Mkt content as a clearly > separated, on the top, and merge it with any general content for > supporting the creation and run of UGs. > > The question then becomes: if someone comes looking for OS User > Groups, they will know how to find. Now, if someone comes looking for > material to promote OS? Will they find it at the UGs Community? Will > this be obvious? Agreed. Maybe an icon at the top of the homepage is the best approach. > > > Bruno. > > On 03/04/2007, at 00:41, Xin-Feng Liu wrote: > >> I agree on the idea. >> The only comment is to make sure not to lower the visibility of >> marketing community/contents. In the current user_group home page (on >> the >> left side of the screen), the user group list is too long and not very >> easy to look up. It might be better to reorganize the content in that >> screen section. >> >> Thanks, >> Xinfeng Liu >> Shanghai User Group >> >> >> Jim Grisanzio wrote On 2007?04?03? 11:25,: >> >>> Hello ... >>> >>> I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User >>> Group Community: >>> >>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ >>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ >>> >>> It seems to me that both communities could benefit from a merger -- >>> especially under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Both communities >>> have >>> many things in common -- they engage new people around the world via >>> various programs and direct meetings and conferences, their list >>> memberships are pretty similar, and they share some content as well. It >>> would seem to make sense that they merge to focus their resources on >>> some common goals and under a new name. >>> >>> I'm starting this conversation here so we can flush out the issues and >>> agree (or not agree) before we go to the website team and the OGB, both >>> of which will have to be involved in any merger. >>> >>> So, any thoughts pro or con? >>> >>> Jim >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ug-discuss mailing list >> ug-discuss at opensolaris.org > > > Bruno. > ______________________________________________________________________ > Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan > http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br > if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe > > > > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org > From kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com Tue Apr 3 05:13:39 2007 From: kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com (Kaiwai Gardiner) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 00:13:39 +1200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [osol-discuss] Audio File Support In-Reply-To: <46123D14.2080009@drwetter.org> References: <46123D14.2080009@drwetter.org> Message-ID: On 03/04/07, Dirk Wetter wrote: > > Matt, > > On 31.03.2007 07:22, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Just having a look around; along with hardware support, I thought it > > would be best to help provide a 'link database' to link up customer > > needs to solutions that exist for Solaris. > > > > Case in point, https://shop.fluendo.com/ who sell currently support for > > WMA/WMV/Mp3 playback for Solaris x86/SPARC - and from what I understand, > > the compresssion side of the equation will be arriving soon. > > > > Not only will this help first time users in regars to helping them > > resolve support issues relating to multimedia, it'll also provide a good > > platform in which Solaris solution provides can directly contact > > customers and vice versa, without needing to navigate the beaucracy that > > is Sun - if this provides free publicitly, hopefully it'll entice more > > vendors to come on board and provide Solaris editions of their software. > > > > What does everyone else thing? > > Looks to me like a commercial license, this is not the idea of Open Source > Software (OSS)! > > For the "end customer Solaris" choosing a proprietary add on is a > political > issue Sun has to decide. > > You certainly will set up the free software community which would be happy > having something they can use for their free version of OpenSolaris and > which is free of rights like real OSS tools like xine, mplayer/mencoder, > lame, ffmpeg, vlc, available and running under Solaris, Linux, BSD, OSX > and partly even Windows. I haven't said that it should be bundled with the opensource version of OpenSolaris - the issue is pairing up what people want in terms of compatibility to what the market is providing in terms of products - in this case, WMA/WMV which is available on Solaris x86 (and in the future, will be available with encoding support too). It isn't a 'all the opensource way or the highway' - with that sort of attitude, you really think OpenSolaris is going to attract the mindshare in regards to third party software vendor support and third party hardware support? that is what has stuffed Linux up; their dogmatic, zealoted approach to OpenSource - you either go to the extreme of one direction (FSF and Stallmans views) or you go in the opposit direction (Microsoft). The point *I* am trying to get accross is simply this; OpenSolaris *SHOULD* be a *new* direction; a direction where by closed and opensource can work together towards to improving the OpenSolaris experience over all, be it on the desktop, server or laptop. Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc.lobelle at uclouvain.be Tue Apr 3 06:05:03 2007 From: marc.lobelle at uclouvain.be (Marc Lobelle) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 06:05:03 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Stickers In-Reply-To: <8DF65F94-F317-4777-80DE-958ACFE497CA@sun.com> Message-ID: <17347829.1175605533473.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> > We have made stickers happen. But probably not in the > way you are > thinking. There are laptop stickers that we have > given out at shows > and other events. I have some here and I would be > willing to send out > 10 of them to anyone wiling to register on the site. > > Once you register, just send me your address (phone > number too if it > is outside of the US) and your OpenSolaris username. > I'll throw them > in the mail. > Sara > > > > > On Nov 10, 2006, at 1:38 PM, John Sonnenschein wrote: > > > I was looking at my laptop today & it occured to me > that I have no > > sun or solaris/opensolaris stickers on it. > > > > This is an unfortunate state of affairs, > considering I have an > > apple sticker on there just so it won't be boring. > > > > I think someone in the marketing community should > make stickers > > happen. > > > > > > This message posted from opensolaris.org > > _______________________________________________ > > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > Hello, If you still have solaris stickers, I am interested. My physical address is Marc Lobelle UCL/INGI Place ste Barbe, 2 B-1348 Louvain-la-Neuve phone +3210473274 mobile +32 475 494 616 opensolaris id: lobellem Thanks in advance Marc Lobelle This message posted from opensolaris.org From spam at drwetter.org Tue Apr 3 04:40:04 2007 From: spam at drwetter.org (Dirk Wetter) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 13:40:04 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [osol-discuss] Audio File Support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46123D14.2080009@drwetter.org> Matt, On 31.03.2007 07:22, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: > Hi, > > Just having a look around; along with hardware support, I thought it > would be best to help provide a 'link database' to link up customer > needs to solutions that exist for Solaris. > > Case in point, https://shop.fluendo.com/ who sell currently support for > WMA/WMV/Mp3 playback for Solaris x86/SPARC - and from what I understand, > the compresssion side of the equation will be arriving soon. > > Not only will this help first time users in regars to helping them > resolve support issues relating to multimedia, it'll also provide a good > platform in which Solaris solution provides can directly contact > customers and vice versa, without needing to navigate the beaucracy that > is Sun - if this provides free publicitly, hopefully it'll entice more > vendors to come on board and provide Solaris editions of their software. > > What does everyone else thing? Looks to me like a commercial license, this is not the idea of Open Source Software (OSS)! For the "end customer Solaris" choosing a proprietary add on is a political issue Sun has to decide. You certainly will set up the free software community which would be happy having something they can use for their free version of OpenSolaris and which is free of rights like real OSS tools like xine, mplayer/mencoder, lame, ffmpeg, vlc, available and running under Solaris, Linux, BSD, OSX and partly even Windows. Cheers, Dirk From spam at drwetter.org Tue Apr 3 08:45:21 2007 From: spam at drwetter.org (Dirk Wetter) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 17:45:21 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [osol-discuss] Audio File Support In-Reply-To: References: <46123D14.2080009@drwetter.org> Message-ID: <46127691.6010206@drwetter.org> On 03.04.2007 14:13, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: > On 03/04/07, *Dirk Wetter* > wrote: > > Matt, > > On 31.03.2007 07:22, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Just having a look around; along with hardware support, I thought it > > would be best to help provide a 'link database' to link up customer > > needs to solutions that exist for Solaris. > > > > Case in point, https://shop.fluendo.com/ > who sell currently support for > > WMA/WMV/Mp3 playback for Solaris x86/SPARC - and from what I > understand, > > the compresssion side of the equation will be arriving soon. > > > > Not only will this help first time users in regars to helping them > > resolve support issues relating to multimedia, it'll also provide > a good > > platform in which Solaris solution provides can directly contact > > customers and vice versa, without needing to navigate the > beaucracy that > > is Sun - if this provides free publicitly, hopefully it'll entice more > > vendors to come on board and provide Solaris editions of their > software. > > > > What does everyone else thing? > > Looks to me like a commercial license, this is not the idea of Open > Source > Software (OSS)! > > For the "end customer Solaris" choosing a proprietary add on is a > political > issue Sun has to decide. > > You certainly will set up the free software community which would be > happy > having something they can use for their free version of OpenSolaris and > which is free of rights like real OSS tools like xine, mplayer/mencoder, > lame, ffmpeg, vlc, available and running under Solaris, Linux, BSD, > OSX > and partly even Windows. > > > I haven't said that it should be bundled with the opensource version of > OpenSolaris - just thought this is an opensolaris mailing list. > the issue is pairing up what people want in terms of > compatibility to what the market is providing in terms of products - in > this case, WMA/WMV which is available on Solaris x86 (and in the future, > will be available with encoding support too). I am not a multimedia guru but I just do not see the point for encoding to WMA/WMV and friends. Neither from a technical perspective or from a usage perspective: how many people using Solaris in the world would make use of this? Besides: If a company says "Will be available/planned" you're sometimes better off to consult a crystal ball. > It isn't a 'all the opensource way or the highway' - with that sort of > attitude, I am definitely not a black-and-white-only-painter. You didn't the bring the point across of a benefit of using those tools as opposed to the free tools already existing. Or the implications/difficulties why bundling some of the free tools might cause problems, too. > that is what has stuffed Linux up; their dogmatic, > zealoted approach to OpenSource - you either go to the extreme of one > direction (FSF and Stallmans views) or you go in the opposit direction > (Microsoft) Sorry, I don't open the can of worms and start political discussions. Cheers, Dirk -- Dirk Wetter, Dr. Wetter IT-Consulting IT-Security + Open Source http://drwetter.org Key fingerprint = 2AD6 BE0F 9863 C82D 21B3 64E5 C967 34D8 11B7 C62F - Found core file older than 7 days: /usr/share/man/man5/core.5.gz From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Tue Apr 3 12:05:00 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:05:00 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] OpenSolaris tracks during CommunityOne day at JavaOne Message-ID: <4612A55C.2030303@sun.com> That was a mouthful. The CommunityOne event held on Monday May 7th is free and open to anyone who would like to attend. Below is the email invitation to sign up. -------------CommunityOne Email Invite text------------- Join Sun Microsystems in San Francisco at The Moscone Center on May 7, 2007 for *CommunityOne *, an open environment of participation, contribution, and innovation. In just one day you can explore groundbreaking open-source and community-based environments, technologies and platforms including the NetBeans IDE, OpenJDK, Mobile and Embedded, the GlassFish project, Web 2.0, and the OpenSolaris operating system.*CommunityOne,* a complimentary event, brings you together with passionate developers and leading technologists. At *CommunityOne * you'll: * Hear James Gosling discuss the future of developer tools and the rich client platform in the NetBeans Software Day general session * Get involved with communities at the leading edge of innovation * Attend sessions* on: o NetBeans release 6 o Ajax-enabled development with jMaki and JavaServer Faces technology o Collaboration for sites and development teams o JSON, the JavaScript^TM programming language, and other cool stuff o SOA o How to open-source a widely adopted technology in six months or less o Getting started and what's new with the GlassFish project v2 o JRuby o Scripting language soup o And more * Explore the current and future impact of participation, in sessions led by analysts from RedMonk * Learn how to boost your productivity with free standards-based tool sets and development environments * Discover how to develop an infrastructure robust and flexible enough to adapt in a Web 2.0 world * Share your ideas with open-source Java technology peers at the *CommunityOne * reception /*Content subject to change./ *Agenda *General Session: 10:00 -- 11:00a.m. Morning Sessions: 11:00a.m. -- 12:00p.m. Lunch: 12:00 -- 1:00p.m. Afternoon Sessions: 1:00 -- 6:00p.m. Reception: 6:00 -- 7:30p.m. Seating is limited for this complimentary one-day event. RSVP early to reserve your place. * Please Use Priority Code C71AWM * *Plus - Experience the 2007 JavaOne^SM Conference on Tuesday, May 8 **CommunityOne * attendees who are, or become, Sun Developer Network members are also invited to experience the 2007 JavaOne^SM Conference on Tuesday, May 8 (complimentary one-day access to the general sessions, the JavaOne Pavilion and Welcome Reception, and two (2) technical and/or BOF sessions). Register Now >> Open Possibilities with open-source tools, technologies, and solutions at *CommunityOne*. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Copyright ? 2007 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All rights reserved. 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URL: From stevel at sun.com Tue Apr 3 15:58:49 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 15:58:49 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20070403225849.GG288472@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Maybe rename it to the 'Evangelisation' community (or Evangelization if you feel opposed to British spelling[1]), since that is something that is clearly common to both marketing and user groups. cheers, steve On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 02:19:44AM -0300, Bruno F. Souza wrote: > > On the UG community, we could include the Mkt content as a clearly > separated, on the top, and merge it with any general content for > supporting the creation and run of UGs. > > The question then becomes: if someone comes looking for OS User > Groups, they will know how to find. Now, if someone comes looking for > material to promote OS? Will they find it at the UGs Community? Will > this be obvious? > > Bruno. > > On 03/04/2007, at 00:41, Xin-Feng Liu wrote: > > >I agree on the idea. > >The only comment is to make sure not to lower the visibility of > >marketing community/contents. In the current user_group home page > >(on the > >left side of the screen), the user group list is too long and not very > >easy to look up. It might be better to reorganize the content in that > >screen section. > > > >Thanks, > >Xinfeng Liu > >Shanghai User Group > > > > > >Jim Grisanzio wrote On 2007??04??03?? 11:25,: > >>Hello ... > >> > >>I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the > >>User > >>Group Community: > >> > >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ > >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ > >> > >>It seems to me that both communities could benefit from a merger -- > >>especially under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Both > >>communities have > >>many things in common -- they engage new people around the world via > >>various programs and direct meetings and conferences, their list > >>memberships are pretty similar, and they share some content as > >>well. It > >>would seem to make sense that they merge to focus their resources on > >>some common goals and under a new name. > >> > >>I'm starting this conversation here so we can flush out the issues > >>and > >>agree (or not agree) before we go to the website team and the OGB, > >>both > >>of which will have to be involved in any merger. > >> > >>So, any thoughts pro or con? > >> > >>Jim > > > >_______________________________________________ > >ug-discuss mailing list > >ug-discuss at opensolaris.org > > Bruno. > ______________________________________________________________________ > Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan > http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br > if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe > > > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Tue Apr 3 16:01:38 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:01:38 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <20070403225849.GG288472@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <20070403225849.GG288472@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20070403230138.GH288472@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> my missing [1] footnote should be "though, keep in mind the English invented English before Americans bastardised it". cheers, steve On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 03:58:49PM -0700, Stephen Lau wrote: > Maybe rename it to the 'Evangelisation' community (or Evangelization if > you feel opposed to British spelling[1]), since that is something that > is clearly common to both marketing and user groups. > > cheers, > steve > > On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 02:19:44AM -0300, Bruno F. Souza wrote: > > > > On the UG community, we could include the Mkt content as a clearly > > separated, on the top, and merge it with any general content for > > supporting the creation and run of UGs. > > > > The question then becomes: if someone comes looking for OS User > > Groups, they will know how to find. Now, if someone comes looking for > > material to promote OS? Will they find it at the UGs Community? Will > > this be obvious? > > > > Bruno. > > > > On 03/04/2007, at 00:41, Xin-Feng Liu wrote: > > > > >I agree on the idea. > > >The only comment is to make sure not to lower the visibility of > > >marketing community/contents. In the current user_group home page > > >(on the > > >left side of the screen), the user group list is too long and not very > > >easy to look up. It might be better to reorganize the content in that > > >screen section. > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Xinfeng Liu > > >Shanghai User Group > > > > > > > > >Jim Grisanzio wrote On 2007??04??03?? 11:25,: > > >>Hello ... > > >> > > >>I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the > > >>User > > >>Group Community: > > >> > > >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ > > >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ > > >> > > >>It seems to me that both communities could benefit from a merger -- > > >>especially under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Both > > >>communities have > > >>many things in common -- they engage new people around the world via > > >>various programs and direct meetings and conferences, their list > > >>memberships are pretty similar, and they share some content as > > >>well. It > > >>would seem to make sense that they merge to focus their resources on > > >>some common goals and under a new name. > > >> > > >>I'm starting this conversation here so we can flush out the issues > > >>and > > >>agree (or not agree) before we go to the website team and the OGB, > > >>both > > >>of which will have to be involved in any merger. > > >> > > >>So, any thoughts pro or con? > > >> > > >>Jim > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >ug-discuss mailing list > > >ug-discuss at opensolaris.org > > > > Bruno. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan > > http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br > > if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > > -- > stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net > opensolaris // solaris kernel development > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Tue Apr 3 16:18:27 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:18:27 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <20070403225849.GG288472@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <20070403225849.GG288472@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4612E0C3.1020801@sun.com> I like that. I too think that there are a lot similarities and a lot of cross posting to the two groups. I agree with a consolidation. Sara Stephen Lau wrote: > Maybe rename it to the 'Evangelisation' community (or Evangelization if > you feel opposed to British spelling[1]), since that is something that > is clearly common to both marketing and user groups. > > cheers, > steve > > On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 02:19:44AM -0300, Bruno F. Souza wrote: > >> On the UG community, we could include the Mkt content as a clearly >> separated, on the top, and merge it with any general content for >> supporting the creation and run of UGs. >> >> The question then becomes: if someone comes looking for OS User >> Groups, they will know how to find. Now, if someone comes looking for >> material to promote OS? Will they find it at the UGs Community? Will >> this be obvious? >> >> Bruno. >> >> On 03/04/2007, at 00:41, Xin-Feng Liu wrote: >> >> >>> I agree on the idea. >>> The only comment is to make sure not to lower the visibility of >>> marketing community/contents. In the current user_group home page >>> (on the >>> left side of the screen), the user group list is too long and not very >>> easy to look up. It might be better to reorganize the content in that >>> screen section. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Xinfeng Liu >>> Shanghai User Group >>> >>> >>> Jim Grisanzio wrote On 2007??04??03?? 11:25,: >>> >>>> Hello ... >>>> >>>> I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the >>>> User >>>> Group Community: >>>> >>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ >>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ >>>> >>>> It seems to me that both communities could benefit from a merger -- >>>> especially under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Both >>>> communities have >>>> many things in common -- they engage new people around the world via >>>> various programs and direct meetings and conferences, their list >>>> memberships are pretty similar, and they share some content as >>>> well. It >>>> would seem to make sense that they merge to focus their resources on >>>> some common goals and under a new name. >>>> >>>> I'm starting this conversation here so we can flush out the issues >>>> and >>>> agree (or not agree) before we go to the website team and the OGB, >>>> both >>>> of which will have to be involved in any merger. >>>> >>>> So, any thoughts pro or con? >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ug-discuss mailing list >>> ug-discuss at opensolaris.org >>> >> Bruno. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan >> http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br >> if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rlhamil at smart.net Tue Apr 3 21:49:27 2007 From: rlhamil at smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:49:27 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [osol-discuss] Audio File Support In-Reply-To: <46127691.6010206@drwetter.org> Message-ID: <26408975.1175662197801.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> > I am not a multimedia guru but I just do not see the > point for encoding to > WMA/WMV and friends. Neither from a technical > perspective or from a usage > perspective: how many people using Solaris in the > world would make use of > this? For playback (and if possible, metadata editing), I would think one would want support for every common format possible. For recording, it depends on the range of other OSs and devices that also support it. WMA support must be fairly common; I have an MP3-capable CD player somewhere that I believe can also play WMA files. Now since it probably can't play the newer WMA Pro format, and from what I've heard the older WMA format isn't better than MP3, I don't see why I'd use it - MP3 works with more stuff. But I can't rule out that it might not be the best choice for some purposes. What I don't get is why Sun can't just get their own license for some of the formats directly. Even if in some cases they choose to license someone else's implementation (if they could do so without effectively paying the format license twice), I would think that would give them more flexibility. OTOH, it wouldn't build 3rd-party support, which is perhaps useful too. What I don't get even more is what idiot ever thought that _decoders_ should have any license terms other than compatibility with the encoder for the use of the name. I mean, 90% of what most people are doing is decoding (playback), but the real value isn't the format so much as the content; so paying for an encoder might make sense, but only if the corresponding decoder is universally available, i.e. free. This message posted from opensolaris.org From rlhamil at smart.net Tue Apr 3 21:58:56 2007 From: rlhamil at smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:58:56 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <24521368.1175662767001.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Does marketing mostly represent the opensolaris.org community (and is this explicit somewhere, i.e. does something in the community structure have some real control over marketing), or does it mostly represent Sun's interests in the community? If the former, the restructuring makes sense; if the latter, I think it gives the _appearance_ of reducing the user groups to a mere appendage of Sun. I don't think that's the _intent_, but stupid conspiracy theories have been started on far less. This message posted from opensolaris.org From Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com Tue Apr 3 22:38:26 2007 From: Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com (Alan DuBoff) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:38:26 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <200704032238.26870.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> On Monday 02 April 2007 08:25 pm, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User > Group Community: I don't think it makes sense. What are you trying to accomplish by doing such? User Groups are grass roots to me, and marketing is driven by a bottom line, and implies such. Maybe I wouldn't mind if it was called something else, because marketing makes me itch... -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group Advocate of insourcing at Sun - hire people that care about our company! From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Tue Apr 3 23:43:51 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:43:51 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <200704032238.26870.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <200704032238.26870.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> Message-ID: <46134927.3080803@Sun.COM> Alan DuBoff wrote On 04/04/07 14:38,: > On Monday 02 April 2007 08:25 pm, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >>I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User >>Group Community: > > > I don't think it makes sense. > > What are you trying to accomplish by doing such? Sometimes consolidation can strengthen both sides. Both the current marketing and UG communities attempt to reach out to new people and most of those people are not kernel developers. Many of those people are technical, true, but I'd argue that many are not. So, I'm looking to see if there is a home in the OpenSolaris community for non-technical people and general users and people who will probably never touch source code. as we grow, we'll get more and more non-technical. We need start thinking about that. > User Groups are grass roots to me, and marketing is driven by a bottom line, > and implies such. Our UGs are independent, sure, but they (most of them) also have web space on the UG community and a group list/forum. Communication and sharing between groups takes place on this list (ug-discuss), but to be honest, that hasn't happened much. Now, I don't want to break that model at all, but I'd just like to explore the notion of making it part of something bigger so we can leverage and focus the few resources we do have so we can interact more and more globally. I like the model of multiple user groups within a meta UG community, but I think that that community can be stronger with a merger and with more leaders driving activity /across/ groups (and conferences, etc). Also, I'm not talking about Sun corporate marketing here. Sure, if Sun marketing people want to get involved in the community, they are more than welcome -- but they have to earn their way just like everyone else. Some do, and some do not -- just like other parts of the organization internally. In a merger, however, I'm hoping that interest will be great enough to grow a true OpenSolaris /community/ marketing/user effort. Sara, Patrick, Laura, and others have been involved all along, but we as a community need to promote OpenSolaris ourselves much more and not necessarily depend on expensive Sun programs to do so. Sun will chip in, obviously, such as with things like the Starter Kit. But that's big cash when you are talking about the free distribution of Starter Kit media to more than 120 countries. Only Sun can do that. But what Sun can't do is the massively distributed grass-roots activities, and that's where the community comes in. That's what we as a community have not fully explored since we launched. I don't have answer here, but that's the direction of my thinking. > Maybe I wouldn't mind if it was called something else, because marketing makes > me itch... *scratch* Yes, we need to re-name the new (potentially combined) community and it can't be marketing. There's nothing wrong with the word "marketing" per say, but it connotes Sun corporate control and money, and that's most certainly not what I'm after and it's not what any of the Sun OpenSolaris marketing people want either. So, to avoid the confusion, we ought to consider a new name that we all agree on. Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 00:18:55 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:18:55 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing In-Reply-To: <24521368.1175662767001.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <24521368.1175662767001.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <4613515F.7060507@Sun.COM> Richard L. Hamilton wrote On 04/04/07 13:58,: > Does marketing mostly represent the opensolaris.org community > (and is this explicit somewhere, i.e. does something in the community structure > have some real control over marketing), Yes. Open, community-based marketing, not Sun corporate or product marketing. That's my perspective. The current Marketing Community actually grew out of the PR-press list I started during the pilot program. This pre-dates marketing involvement in OpenSolaris, and there was no UG community or even any discussion of UGs at that time. Back then it was simply a list where the pilot community could discuss PR/marketing/blogging issues without having to clog up the main technical lists. I felt it was important at the time since we were under attack so much before we launched, we couldn't say much publically due to the NDA, and we needed a forum to discuss the various issues and how/if to respond. We also used it to start blogging about what we could talk about. Then when we launched, we re-named that list to the generic "marketing" and created a community space around it since Sun marketing teams were then forming to help support OpenSolaris and that would be their space to work and build a marketing community. Then almost immediately after we launched, the Sun marketing director expressed an interest to me in starting user groups and in funding some programs. I didn't have any cash, so it would have to come from marketing. The idea quite literally came from marketing, actually, and then Eric, Sara, Laura, and I created the User Group Community as a result. We didn't have a lot of cash, so we decided to form a community, rather than creating a Sun "program" which no one seemed to want anyway. So, it became individual user groups, all housed within the UG community, which itself lived within the meta OpenSolaris community and was supported, in part, by the marketing community, which, of course was already established and separate from the UG community. Very confusing. And to top it off, the site isn't really structured for how we've build the UG community. Each group has a page and a list and there are about 40 or so leaders as a result. It's a mess. And a mess primarily because it's been pretty successful, which, of course, is great. So, the marketing and UG communities have always been pretty much tied at most times. Sun marketing people have provided resources to various groups at times (when they had resources to offer), and when Sun participates in conferences (Tech Days, Open Source events, etc), it's generally the marketing people interacting with the various user groups. And although Teresa, Eric, Linda, and I are not in marketing specifically, we've been involved all along as well and mix rather freely at times with our marketing colleagues at events such as conferences. > or does it mostly represent Sun's > interests in the community? I'm not sure how Sun expresses it's interest in the community, to be honest. Perhaps you mean Solaris product marketing? > If the former, the restructuring makes sense; > if the latter, I think it gives the _appearance_ of reducing the user groups > to a mere appendage of Sun. I don't think that's the _intent_, but stupid > conspiracy theories have been started on far less. Yah, I think we're safe from the conspiracy types on this. And here's why I say that: I don't have any new money or control to offer in my proposal. I'm only suggesting that we clean up the structure and mandates of both communities and focus what little resources we all have. I'm expecting the new OGB to be talking a hard look at all the OpenSolaris communities and projects, and I can't help but see some ways to consolidate here. If we do this, I think it will take some time, especially with the website team to figure out the structure. Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 00:36:09 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:36:09 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46135569.2050400@Sun.COM> Kaiwai Gardiner wrote On 04/03/07 14:31,: > Hi, > > For me, I don't think the two should merge as both groups have different > goals; Marketing is setup to evangelise OpenSolaris and its respective > technologies to the rest of the 'industry' (used int he most loosest of > terms) and to develop dialogue with the user community, which hopefully > can then be relayed to the programmers and those who do the design, > analysis and implementation - call us the intemediary between the users > and the worker bee's. > > What I do propose, however, is for the two to have a closer working > relationship, as dialogue between the marketing and user group(s) is > necessary for the 'worker bee's' to know what customers want, who > current sit outside the Sun 'customer list' - the end users *could* pass > long requests directly, but the better way would be for us to > consolidate the issues into one voice so that there is a consist voice > with a matrix of issues that concern them. I agree that the two need a closer working relationship, which is why I'm suggesting that they live within one community. Now, that new community will have many parts -- user groups, presentations, video/audio, screen-casts, contests, t-shirts, web buttons, advertising, marketing, branding campaigns, PR activities, profiles, Patrick's metrics, other forms of technical and non-technical content (newsletters, etc), conferences & events, etc. Try to think of it *without* the word "marketing" in mind, but simply the general evangelization (as Steve suggested) of OpenSolaris. Think of how strong that new group could be. Also, under the new Constitution, each Community Group will interact with the OGB. Wouldn't the interests of the UG and Marketing communities be better served under one combined voice since so many of their issues overlap? Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 00:47:30 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:47:30 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <20070403225849.GG288472@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <20070403225849.GG288472@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46135812.5040303@Sun.COM> Evangelization is an obvious choice and a good one, too. I'm not sure how the term works internationally, though. We'll have to hear from some others. I'm not good at naming things, so I'd be happy to defer to others on this part. :) Jim Stephen Lau wrote On 04/04/07 07:58,: > Maybe rename it to the 'Evangelisation' community (or Evangelization if > you feel opposed to British spelling[1]), since that is something that > is clearly common to both marketing and user groups. > > cheers, > steve > > On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 02:19:44AM -0300, Bruno F. Souza wrote: > >>On the UG community, we could include the Mkt content as a clearly >>separated, on the top, and merge it with any general content for >>supporting the creation and run of UGs. >> >>The question then becomes: if someone comes looking for OS User >>Groups, they will know how to find. Now, if someone comes looking for >>material to promote OS? Will they find it at the UGs Community? Will >>this be obvious? >> >>Bruno. >> >>On 03/04/2007, at 00:41, Xin-Feng Liu wrote: >> >> >>>I agree on the idea. >>>The only comment is to make sure not to lower the visibility of >>>marketing community/contents. In the current user_group home page >>>(on the >>>left side of the screen), the user group list is too long and not very >>>easy to look up. It might be better to reorganize the content in that >>>screen section. >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Xinfeng Liu >>>Shanghai User Group >>> >>> >>>Jim Grisanzio wrote On 2007??04??03?? 11:25,: >>> >>>>Hello ... >>>> >>>>I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the >>>>User >>>>Group Community: >>>> >>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ >>>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ >>>> >>>>It seems to me that both communities could benefit from a merger -- >>>>especially under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Both >>>>communities have >>>>many things in common -- they engage new people around the world via >>>>various programs and direct meetings and conferences, their list >>>>memberships are pretty similar, and they share some content as >>>>well. It >>>>would seem to make sense that they merge to focus their resources on >>>>some common goals and under a new name. >>>> >>>>I'm starting this conversation here so we can flush out the issues >>>>and >>>>agree (or not agree) before we go to the website team and the OGB, >>>>both >>>>of which will have to be involved in any merger. >>>> >>>>So, any thoughts pro or con? >>>> >>>>Jim >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>ug-discuss mailing list >>>ug-discuss at opensolaris.org >> >>Bruno. >>______________________________________________________________________ >>Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan >>http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br >> if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>opensolaris-mktg mailing list >>opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > > From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 00:53:26 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:53:26 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46135976.1070203@Sun.COM> Bruno F. Souza wrote On 04/03/07 14:19,: > > On the UG community, we could include the Mkt content as a clearly > separated, on the top, and merge it with any general content for > supporting the creation and run of UGs. > > The question then becomes: if someone comes looking for OS User Groups, > they will know how to find. Now, if someone comes looking for material > to promote OS? Will they find it at the UGs Community? Will this be > obvious? hey, Bruno ... and welcome! :) Good points. And we'd have to make UGs quite obvious within the new community since the'd be a core part of that communty. Jim > Bruno. > > On 03/04/2007, at 00:41, Xin-Feng Liu wrote: > >> I agree on the idea. >> The only comment is to make sure not to lower the visibility of >> marketing community/contents. In the current user_group home page (on the >> left side of the screen), the user group list is too long and not very >> easy to look up. It might be better to reorganize the content in that >> screen section. >> >> Thanks, >> Xinfeng Liu >> Shanghai User Group >> >> >> Jim Grisanzio wrote On 2007?04?03? 11:25,: >> >>> Hello ... >>> >>> I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User >>> Group Community: >>> >>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ >>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ >>> >>> It seems to me that both communities could benefit from a merger -- >>> especially under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Both communities >>> have >>> many things in common -- they engage new people around the world via >>> various programs and direct meetings and conferences, their list >>> memberships are pretty similar, and they share some content as well. It >>> would seem to make sense that they merge to focus their resources on >>> some common goals and under a new name. >>> >>> I'm starting this conversation here so we can flush out the issues and >>> agree (or not agree) before we go to the website team and the OGB, both >>> of which will have to be involved in any merger. >>> >>> So, any thoughts pro or con? >>> >>> Jim >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ug-discuss mailing list >> ug-discuss at opensolaris.org > > > Bruno. > ______________________________________________________________________ > Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan > http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br > if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe > > > From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 00:57:02 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:57:02 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <46123A7F.6030506@sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <46123A7F.6030506@sun.com> Message-ID: <46135A4E.3090407@Sun.COM> Laura Ramsey wrote On 04/03/07 20:29,: > Bruno F. Souza wrote: > > >>On the UG community, we could include the Mkt content as a clearly >>separated, on the top, and merge it with any general content for >>supporting the creation and run of UGs. >> >>The question then becomes: if someone comes looking for OS User >>Groups, they will know how to find. Now, if someone comes looking for >>material to promote OS? Will they find it at the UGs Community? Will >>this be obvious? > > > Agreed. Maybe an icon at the top of the homepage is the best approach. I'd support the argument for a UG link on the front page or a link to this new community (since it's really for general people, not for kernel developers). I don't want to confuse the home page, per say, but I think we'll eventually need something to direct users and non developers within the site. Jim >>Bruno. >> >>On 03/04/2007, at 00:41, Xin-Feng Liu wrote: >> >> >>>I agree on the idea. >>>The only comment is to make sure not to lower the visibility of >>>marketing community/contents. In the current user_group home page (on >>>the >>>left side of the screen), the user group list is too long and not very >>>easy to look up. It might be better to reorganize the content in that >>>screen section. >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Xinfeng Liu >>>Shanghai User Group >>> >>> >>>Jim Grisanzio wrote On 2007?04?03? 11:25,: >>> >>> >>>>Hello ... >>>> >>>>I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User >>>>Group Community: >>>> >>>>http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ >>>>http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ >>>> >>>>It seems to me that both communities could benefit from a merger -- >>>>especially under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Both communities >>>>have >>>>many things in common -- they engage new people around the world via >>>>various programs and direct meetings and conferences, their list >>>>memberships are pretty similar, and they share some content as well. It >>>>would seem to make sense that they merge to focus their resources on >>>>some common goals and under a new name. >>>> >>>>I'm starting this conversation here so we can flush out the issues and >>>>agree (or not agree) before we go to the website team and the OGB, both >>>>of which will have to be involved in any merger. >>>> >>>>So, any thoughts pro or con? >>>> >>>>Jim >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>ug-discuss mailing list >>>ug-discuss at opensolaris.org >> >> >>Bruno. >>______________________________________________________________________ >>Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan >>http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br >>if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>ug-discuss mailing list >>ug-discuss at opensolaris.org >> > > > From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 01:48:08 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:48:08 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <200704032238.26870.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <200704032238.26870.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> Message-ID: <46136648.9040604@sun.com> I think that "marketing" is a broad term and one that is clearly emotive for many people on OpenSolaris.org. If we understand marketing to mean things like advertising, clearly Sun is able to do that for itself. So what is needed beyond Sun's own "marketing" of the project? I'd suggest that it is precisely the ability of community members to evangelise at the grassroots level, both face-to-face (attending conferences, and especially UGs) and also online. I think that people need to be able to contribute to what we used to call "OpenSolaris marketing" in a more bazaar-like manner. A chap started posting to this list a couple of weeks ago and wanted to get involved, wanted to spread the word. We didn't really have any programmes for him to join. This lead me to think that we should have a community that lets the interested and enthusiasts become more effective and responsible evangelists, and that's why I'm supportive of the proposal. Patrick Alan DuBoff wrote: > On Monday 02 April 2007 08:25 pm, Jim Grisanzio wrote: >> I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User >> Group Community: > > I don't think it makes sense. > > What are you trying to accomplish by doing such? > > User Groups are grass roots to me, and marketing is driven by a bottom line, > and implies such. > > Maybe I wouldn't mind if it was called something else, because marketing makes > me itch... > From Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com Wed Apr 4 02:39:04 2007 From: Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com (Alan DuBoff) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 02:39:04 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing =?iso-8859-1?q?& UGs?= In-Reply-To: <46134927.3080803@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <200704032238.26870.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> <46134927.3080803@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <200704040239.04367.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> On Tuesday 03 April 2007 11:43 pm, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Sometimes consolidation can strengthen both sides. Sure, and other times it drives them apart. > Also, I'm not talking about Sun corporate marketing here. Sure, if Sun > marketing people want to get involved in the community, they are more > than welcome -- but they have to earn their way just like everyone else. I hope you drop the marketing label, as a name. I don't think it represents what a community is, and something like community-reachout, or similar might be a better way to refer to that. I see the community doing this in a different capacicty, where local members of the community would host booths at open source conferences. > Some do, and some do not -- just like other parts of the organization > internally. In a merger, however, I'm hoping that interest will be great > enough to grow a true OpenSolaris /community/ marketing/user effort. > Sara, Patrick, Laura, and others have been involved all along, but we as > a community need to promote OpenSolaris ourselves much more and not > necessarily depend on expensive Sun programs to do so. Sure, in some ways. But please understand that things done from Sun will be seen with a certain Sun perspective. As an example, a community type grass roots movement would be "Windows Refund Day". I know that many might say that's corny, but it was an excellent grass roots event that was orchestrated and executed by the community. For other similar events, google "burn all gifs", or "Free Dmitry Sklyarov", or DeCSS...those were all grass roots movements (albeit the Dmitry cause was fueled in part by the EFF). There's other ways that out community can help, such as holding BOFs at conferences, getting together with other community members, helping people to get Solaris installed, configured in the best setup for them, etc...I think for the most part, many of the community enjoy this aspect of getting together and networking with other OpenSolaris folks. > But what Sun can't do is > the massively distributed grass-roots activities, and that's where the > community comes in. That's what we as a community have not fully > explored since we launched. I don't have answer here, but that's the > direction of my thinking. It takes motivated people also, that stuff doesn't grow on trees. > Yes, we need to re-name the new (potentially combined) community and it > can't be marketing. There's nothing wrong with the word "marketing" per > say, but it connotes Sun corporate control and money, and that's most > certainly not what I'm after and it's not what any of the Sun > OpenSolaris marketing people want either. So, to avoid the confusion, we > ought to consider a new name that we all agree on. We're certainly in agreement, but I'm not sure what to call it. I see it as a reach-out type program, maybe someone can think of a better word that has better meaning. -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group Advocate of insourcing at Sun - hire people that care about our company! From Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com Wed Apr 4 02:47:28 2007 From: Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com (Alan DuBoff) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 02:47:28 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing =?iso-8859-1?q?& UGs?= In-Reply-To: <46136648.9040604@sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <200704032238.26870.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> <46136648.9040604@sun.com> Message-ID: <200704040247.28108.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> On Wednesday 04 April 2007 01:48 am, Patrick Finch wrote: > So what is needed beyond Sun's own "marketing" of the project? I'd > suggest that it is precisely the ability of community members to > evangelise at the grassroots level, both face-to-face (attending > conferences, and especially UGs) and also online. I think that people > need to be able to contribute to what we used to call "OpenSolaris > marketing" in a more bazaar-like manner. I agree, but don't use the "E" word, as it's on my business card.;-) I think we're all in agreement to toss the marketing label. > A chap started posting to this list a couple of weeks ago and wanted to > get involved, wanted to spread the word. We didn't really have any > programmes for him to join. This lead me to think that we should have a > community that lets the interested and enthusiasts become more effective > and responsible evangelists, and that's why I'm supportive of the proposal. Well, people need to be self sufficient also, in the sense that they need to become a part and get involved. We are getting more interest and I think in some ways it's probably good to try and scale growth accordingly. Otherwise it could get out of hand. -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group Advocate of insourcing at Sun - hire people that care about our company! From rlhamil at smart.net Wed Apr 4 03:47:18 2007 From: rlhamil at smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:47:18 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing In-Reply-To: <46135569.2050400@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <12329701.1175683668747.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> I think I prefer the word "outreach". That leaves "evangelization" for the more typical religious uses (which I have nothing against). This message posted from opensolaris.org From Bonnie.Corwin at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 06:37:40 2007 From: Bonnie.Corwin at Sun.COM (Bonnie Corwin) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:37:40 -0600 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing In-Reply-To: <12329701.1175683668747.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <12329701.1175683668747.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <4613AA24.2040609@Sun.COM> I really like "Outreach". I've never been completely wild about 'evangelism' but haven't been able to come up with an alternative. "Outreach" might be it. General term, no overt overtones or connotations to anything negative (I don't think) and very broad - it can encompass all kinds of projects that reach out to all kinds of participants. Great idea. Bonnie Richard L. Hamilton wrote: > I think I prefer the word "outreach". That leaves "evangelization" > for the more typical religious uses (which I have nothing against). > > > This message posted from opensolaris.org > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 06:48:23 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:48:23 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <200704040239.04367.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <200704032238.26870.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> <46134927.3080803@Sun.COM> <200704040239.04367.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> Message-ID: <4613ACA7.20309@sun.com> Alan DuBoff wrote: > On Tuesday 03 April 2007 11:43 pm, Jim Grisanzio wrote: >> Sometimes consolidation can strengthen both sides. > > Sure, and other times it drives them apart. > >> Also, I'm not talking about Sun corporate marketing here. Sure, if Sun >> marketing people want to get involved in the community, they are more >> than welcome -- but they have to earn their way just like everyone else. > > I hope you drop the marketing label, as a name. I don't think it represents > what a community is, and something like community-reachout, or similar might > be a better way to refer to that. Yep. Agree. I've been up front all along that any potential merger of these two communities needs to be done under a new name and one that represents community input and agreement. > I see the community doing this in a different capacicty, where local members > of the community would host booths at open source conferences. Yes, I totally agree. Some of us have been pushing for that all along, too, and in some cases it's worked (but in most cases it's Sun running the various conference activities). All I'm suggesting here is that we have one space where we -- as a community -- can plan these things, share resources, and leverage each other's activities. It's already happening. You see that there have been open calls for papers for JavaOne and the OpenSolaris conference in Germany. This is a good trend and we can do more. Also, the UG community has really grown and been successful. If you follow some of individual lists, it's really cool to see individual communities growing in China and India and Russia, etc. The list conversation activity for UGs has grown sharply in the last 6 months. I'd like to be able to fan those flames and offer a more focused effort. Basically, to give the effort a higher platform and call more attention to it. >> Some do, and some do not -- just like other parts of the organization >> internally. In a merger, however, I'm hoping that interest will be great >> enough to grow a true OpenSolaris /community/ marketing/user effort. >> Sara, Patrick, Laura, and others have been involved all along, but we as >> a community need to promote OpenSolaris ourselves much more and not >> necessarily depend on expensive Sun programs to do so. > > Sure, in some ways. But please understand that things done from Sun will be > seen with a certain Sun perspective. As an example, a community type grass > roots movement would be "Windows Refund Day". I know that many might say > that's corny, but it was an excellent grass roots event that was orchestrated > and executed by the community. I would hope that the OpenSolaris community would start to assert it's own grass-roots activities. That's the whole point here. I agree. > For other similar events, google "burn all gifs", or "Free Dmitry Sklyarov", > or DeCSS...those were all grass roots movements (albeit the Dmitry cause was > fueled in part by the EFF). > > There's other ways that out community can help, such as holding BOFs at > conferences, getting together with other community members, helping people to > get Solaris installed, configured in the best setup for them, etc...I think > for the most part, many of the community enjoy this aspect of getting > together and networking with other OpenSolaris folks. Agree. We just did an installfest here in Tokyo: http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris/entry/opensolaris_installfest_pics And we gave out about 50 Starter Kits and we also participated in an Open Source Conference in Tokyo a few weeks ago as well to launch the Japan OpenSolaris User Group: http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris/entry/tokyo_open_source_conference_opensolaris We need to get better at posting pics and presentations, though, so everyone knows what's going on. >> But what Sun can't do is >> the massively distributed grass-roots activities, and that's where the >> community comes in. That's what we as a community have not fully >> explored since we launched. I don't have answer here, but that's the >> direction of my thinking. > > It takes motivated people also, that stuff doesn't grow on trees. Indeed. :) >> Yes, we need to re-name the new (potentially combined) community and it >> can't be marketing. There's nothing wrong with the word "marketing" per >> say, but it connotes Sun corporate control and money, and that's most >> certainly not what I'm after and it's not what any of the Sun >> OpenSolaris marketing people want either. So, to avoid the confusion, we >> ought to consider a new name that we all agree on. > > We're certainly in agreement, but I'm not sure what to call it. I see it as a > reach-out type program, maybe someone can think of a better word that has > better meaning. Yah, I have no clue what to call it either. See you at J1 .... Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 07:48:25 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:48:25 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [osol-discuss] OpenSolaris tracks during CommunityOne day at JavaOne In-Reply-To: <4612A55C.2030303@sun.com> References: <4612A55C.2030303@sun.com> Message-ID: <4613BAB9.6030806@sun.com> When I try to register I get the following message: 'sorry, but CommunityOne is not open to Sun employees' Jim Sara Dornsife wrote: > That was a mouthful. The CommunityOne event held on Monday May 7th is > free and open to anyone who would like to attend. Below is the email > invitation to sign up. > > > -------------CommunityOne Email Invite text------------- > > Join Sun Microsystems in San Francisco at The Moscone Center on May 7, > 2007 for *CommunityOne *, an > open environment of participation, contribution, and innovation. > > In just one day you can explore groundbreaking open-source and > community-based environments, technologies and platforms including the > NetBeans IDE, OpenJDK, Mobile and Embedded, the GlassFish project, Web > 2.0, and the OpenSolaris operating system.*CommunityOne,* a > complimentary event, brings you together with passionate developers and > leading technologists. > > At *CommunityOne * you'll: > > * Hear James Gosling discuss the future of developer tools and > the rich client platform in the NetBeans Software Day general > session > * Get involved with communities at the leading edge of innovation > * Attend sessions* on: > o NetBeans release 6 > o Ajax-enabled development with jMaki and JavaServer Faces > technology > o Collaboration for sites and development teams > o JSON, the JavaScript^TM programming language, and other > cool stuff > o SOA > o How to open-source a widely adopted technology in six > months or less > o Getting started and what's new with the GlassFish project v2 > o JRuby > o Scripting language soup > o And more > * Explore the current and future impact of participation, in > sessions led by analysts from RedMonk > * Learn how to boost your productivity with free standards-based > tool sets and development environments > * Discover how to develop an infrastructure robust and flexible > enough to adapt in a Web 2.0 world > * Share your ideas with open-source Java technology peers at the > *CommunityOne * reception > > /*Content subject to change./ > > *Agenda > *General Session: 10:00 ? 11:00a.m. > Morning Sessions: 11:00a.m. ? 12:00p.m. > Lunch: 12:00 ? 1:00p.m. > Afternoon Sessions: 1:00 ? 6:00p.m. > Reception: 6:00 ? 7:30p.m. > > Seating is limited for this complimentary one-day event. RSVP > early to reserve your place. * > Please Use Priority Code C71AWM * > > *Plus - Experience the 2007 JavaOne^SM Conference on Tuesday, May 8 > **CommunityOne * attendees who are, or become, Sun Developer Network > members are also invited to experience the 2007 JavaOne^SM Conference on > Tuesday, May 8 (complimentary one-day access to the general sessions, > the JavaOne Pavilion and Welcome Reception, and two (2) technical and/or > BOF sessions). > > Register Now >> > > Open Possibilities with open-source tools, technologies, and solutions > at *CommunityOne*. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Copyright ? 2007 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All rights reserved. Sun, Sun > Microsystems, the Sun logo, Java, the Java Coffee Cup logo, JavaOne, the > JavaOne logo, Java Developer Conference, Java Community Process, JCP, > 100% Pure Java, Java EE, Java ME, Java SE, Jini, Solaris, "Write Once, > Run Anywhere", and all Java-based marks and logos are trademarks or > registered trademarks of Sun Microsystems, Inc. in the United States and > other countries. > 2007 JavaOne Conference, 999 Skyway Road, Suite 300, San Carlos, CA 94070 > > If you do not want to receive any future email communication regarding > the CommunityOne event please email communityone_marketing at eventreg.com > > > > _______________________________________________________ > You are on the Java-BuyersGuide.COM Email List. > To take your email address off of the list for future messages from > third party advertisers, > as well as notify this advertiser that you no longer wish to receive > messages from them, > please follow this link: > http://sy10.net/o/?ZXD=4.6950022.225294&ZXM=communityone_marketing at eventreg.com&ZXE=sharat.chander at sun.com&ZXJ=UNSUBSCRIBE > > > Java-BuyersGuide.COM is not responsible for the products or services > presented in this message. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris.org From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 08:09:46 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:09:46 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [osol-discuss] OpenSolaris tracks during CommunityOne day at JavaOne In-Reply-To: <4613BAB9.6030806@sun.com> References: <4612A55C.2030303@sun.com> <4613BAB9.6030806@sun.com> Message-ID: <4613BFBA.4050008@sun.com> I'm not sure if I'm laughing or not. I think I might be.... There is a demo station at the event and if you would like to work at it (Young has already volunteered), I'll put you down and you can get in that way. Sara Jim Grisanzio wrote: > When I try to register I get the following message: > > 'sorry, but CommunityOne is not open to Sun employees' > > Jim > > > > Sara Dornsife wrote: >> That was a mouthful. The CommunityOne event held on Monday May 7th is >> free and open to anyone who would like to attend. Below is the email >> invitation to sign up. >> >> >> -------------CommunityOne Email Invite text------------- >> >> Join Sun Microsystems in San Francisco at The Moscone Center on May >> 7, 2007 for *CommunityOne >> *, an open environment of >> participation, contribution, and innovation. >> >> In just one day you can explore groundbreaking open-source and >> community-based environments, technologies and platforms including >> the NetBeans IDE, OpenJDK, Mobile and Embedded, the GlassFish >> project, Web 2.0, and the OpenSolaris operating >> system.*CommunityOne,* a complimentary event, brings you together >> with passionate developers and leading technologists. >> >> At *CommunityOne * you'll: >> >> * Hear James Gosling discuss the future of developer tools and >> the rich client platform in the NetBeans Software Day general >> session >> * Get involved with communities at the leading edge of innovation >> * Attend sessions* on: >> o NetBeans release 6 >> o Ajax-enabled development with jMaki and JavaServer Faces >> technology >> o Collaboration for sites and development teams >> o JSON, the JavaScript^TM programming language, and other >> cool stuff >> o SOA >> o How to open-source a widely adopted technology in six >> months or less >> o Getting started and what's new with the GlassFish project v2 >> o JRuby >> o Scripting language soup >> o And more >> * Explore the current and future impact of participation, in >> sessions led by analysts from RedMonk >> * Learn how to boost your productivity with free standards-based >> tool sets and development environments >> * Discover how to develop an infrastructure robust and flexible >> enough to adapt in a Web 2.0 world >> * Share your ideas with open-source Java technology peers at the >> *CommunityOne * reception >> >> /*Content subject to change./ >> >> *Agenda >> *General Session: 10:00 ? 11:00a.m. >> Morning Sessions: 11:00a.m. ? 12:00p.m. >> Lunch: 12:00 ? 1:00p.m. >> Afternoon Sessions: 1:00 ? 6:00p.m. >> Reception: 6:00 ? 7:30p.m. >> >> Seating is limited for this complimentary one-day event. RSVP >> early to reserve your >> place. * >> Please Use Priority Code C71AWM * >> >> *Plus - Experience the 2007 JavaOne^SM Conference on Tuesday, May 8 >> **CommunityOne * attendees who are, or become, Sun Developer Network >> members are also invited to experience the 2007 JavaOne^SM Conference >> on Tuesday, May 8 (complimentary one-day access to the general >> sessions, the JavaOne Pavilion and Welcome Reception, and two (2) >> technical and/or BOF sessions). >> >> Register Now >> >> >> Open Possibilities with open-source tools, technologies, and >> solutions at *CommunityOne*. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> Copyright ? 2007 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All rights reserved. Sun, Sun >> Microsystems, the Sun logo, Java, the Java Coffee Cup logo, JavaOne, >> the JavaOne logo, Java Developer Conference, Java Community Process, >> JCP, 100% Pure Java, Java EE, Java ME, Java SE, Jini, Solaris, "Write >> Once, Run Anywhere", and all Java-based marks and logos are >> trademarks or registered trademarks of Sun Microsystems, Inc. in the >> United States and other countries. >> 2007 JavaOne Conference, 999 Skyway Road, Suite 300, San Carlos, CA >> 94070 >> >> If you do not want to receive any future email communication >> regarding the CommunityOne event please email >> communityone_marketing at eventreg.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________________ >> You are on the Java-BuyersGuide.COM Email List. >> To take your email address off of the list for future messages from >> third party advertisers, >> as well as notify this advertiser that you no longer wish to receive >> messages from them, >> please follow this link: >> http://sy10.net/o/?ZXD=4.6950022.225294&ZXM=communityone_marketing at eventreg.com&ZXE=sharat.chander at sun.com&ZXJ=UNSUBSCRIBE >> >> >> Java-BuyersGuide.COM is not responsible for the products or services >> presented in this message. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-discuss mailing list >> opensolaris-discuss at opensolaris.org > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From Bruno.Souza at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 08:26:50 2007 From: Bruno.Souza at Sun.COM (Bruno F. Souza) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:26:50 -0300 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4613ACA7.20309@sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <200704032238.26870.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> <46134927.3080803@Sun.COM> <200704040239.04367.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> <4613ACA7.20309@sun.com> Message-ID: <1173B354-8713-4D22-B102-0440EB5F01BA@Sun.COM> On 04/04/2007, at 10:48, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > > Alan DuBoff wrote: >> On Tuesday 03 April 2007 11:43 pm, Jim Grisanzio wrote: >>> Sometimes consolidation can strengthen both sides. >> Sure, and other times it drives them apart. >>> Also, I'm not talking about Sun corporate marketing here. Sure, >>> if Sun >>> marketing people want to get involved in the community, they are >>> more >>> than welcome -- but they have to earn their way just like >>> everyone else. >> I hope you drop the marketing label, as a name. I don't think it >> represents what a community is, and something like community- >> reachout, or similar might be a better way to refer to that. > > There are a few separated concepts here: - User Groups: each UG is a separated community! Because of that, the UG community should be targeted for helping people starting UGs and maintaining UGs, because the UGs themselves are not interesting to the larger community. What they do (and they community they serve) is what a developer will care about, not the discussion on how to run the UG. This is something just a few will care about. Also, the only way to UGs to be efficient on the long run is if they are independently run by motivated people, and that they can form their own communities. It is important that they can be independent, that they don't depend on a single company, because it is clear that Sun cannot support all UGs around the world, so, if they depend on Sun, most of them will be disappointed at some point. We can debate if by being a OpenSolaris UG this ties them to Sun or not, that's another issue that I won't go in right now. But the independence factor is important: UGs are strong and effective when they are long lived. They don't get to be long lived if they aren't independent. Because of that, the UG community focus should be to support UGs, not support OpenSolaris adoption (there is a subtle but important difference here). - "Evangelism": this is a larger them UGs concept. This involves a lot of aspects, from Sun adoption efforts to community generated content, to UGs doing technical talks, etc. Evangelism is not a community either, and as UGs, most developers are not interested in Evangelism per si: they care for the results (the talks, the articles, the events). So, evangelism is one of the efforts UGs (among others) can do to build a community. UGs do that to expand their local communities and to serve the needs of local developers. Sun does this to create its own community, and to serve the needs of it. Also, keep in mind that one of the main reasons UGs are successful is that they provide the local information (in the local language, targeted for local needs), that Sun is usually not able to provide, so, these evangelism are not necessarily a joint effort: more likely then not, they are parallel activities with similar objectives - Marketing: I'll not try to define marketing here, but from what I see, this is really not a community either... IMHO, these are efforts to direct some existing, always limited, budget to create a community (of users, or buyers, of fans) around a product. In the open source arena, marketing can do a tiered approach, that is instead of investing to reach the end user, invest in empowering the community, that will then reach the end user. Marketing can have great results in fuelling the UGs, and provide evangelism material, content and support. If marketing will also focus on the end developer, that is fine too, but it is my opinion that nothing beats in terms of investment/results investing in building a strong, independent community. Now, to be fair, UGs take a long time to be effective, so, there needs to be a marketing effort that is independent from UGs support right now. And, in my experience users will come to a "learn OpenSolaris" site, and find UGs in their area they are interested in joining. But most developers don't care about UGs issues like starting a UG, organizing events and technical meetings, etc. Most developers also don't care to write articles, or to create marketing or evangelism material. So, with all of that, a few things that I imagine: - although lots of the people are the same, I expect that most of the discussions are separated, so, we should expect to have separated mailing lists for example. - all the initiatives done will need to have its own "developer focused" area, that is easy to see on the site, because the discussions happening inside these communities are not of interest to most developers, just the results. So, developers will want to know where there is a forum they can discuss OpenSolaris in Chinese or where can they get a Getting Started article. But they will not care about discussing how to start a Chinese-speaking UG that can host the forum, nor the discussions on who should write and how to promote the Getting started article. I think we can have a "single" community, but that focus on several objectives. But my main worry is that because the Marketing community objectives are more focused on promoting OpenSolaris, I would not want that we forget that the UG community focus is to promote stronger UGs, not really to promote the adoption of OpenSolaris (to promote is the focus of the UGs themselves, not the UG Community). So, for me, the relationship between the two communities are on the results and the activities, not on the building or organization of the communities themselves... Tks, Bruno. ______________________________________________________________________ Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe From peter.tribble at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 13:08:58 2007 From: peter.tribble at gmail.com (Peter Tribble) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 21:08:58 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On 4/3/07, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Hello ... > > I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User > Group Community: > > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ ... > So, any thoughts pro or con? I'm sort of split, and if that's all that happens I'm against it. What I think is flawed with the current structure is the idea that there's a "user group community" and that user groups live under that community. I think that's wrong. User groups are, well, user groups and ought to be first-class citizens in their own right, alongside communities and not placed underneath. Certainly under my understanding of the constitution user groups themselves should be completely divorced from communities. I don't see LOSUG, for example, as a natural outcome of the the UG community being directed by the OGB to go do focussed management and accomplishment of objectives. With that in mind, what is the role of the user group community? It's not managing user groups, but it can offer support - materials, suupport, infrastructure. And there is overlap with what might be called marketing. So, in that context, merging it with the marketing community to form an outreach community would make sense. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ From bruce.hill at sun.com Wed Apr 4 14:39:03 2007 From: bruce.hill at sun.com (Bruce Hill) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:39:03 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Promotional DVDs?? In-Reply-To: <45785732.40900@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <29252635.1175722773858.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Any way for us to get a bulk pack of promotional DVD's for distribution? We have just set up a San Diego OpenSolaris User Group and would like to give out some DVD's at our first meeting next month. BruceH This message posted from opensolaris.org From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 14:57:43 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:57:43 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Promotional DVDs?? In-Reply-To: <29252635.1175722773858.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <29252635.1175722773858.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <46141F57.50601@sun.com> How many do you think you'll need Bruce? Sara Bruce Hill wrote: > Any way for us to get a bulk pack of promotional DVD's for distribution? > We have just set up a San Diego OpenSolaris User Group and would like to give out some DVD's at our first meeting next month. > > BruceH > > > This message posted from opensolaris.org > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > From Bruno.Souza at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 15:12:23 2007 From: Bruno.Souza at Sun.COM (Bruno F. Souza) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:12:23 -0300 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On 04/04/2007, at 17:08, Peter Tribble wrote: > > What I think is flawed with the current structure is the idea that > there's > a "user group community" and that user groups live under that > community. > I think that's wrong. User groups are, well, user groups and ought > to be > first-class citizens in their own right, alongside communities and not > placed underneath. > > Certainly under my understanding of the constitution user groups > themselves > should be completely divorced from communities. I don't see LOSUG, for > example, as a natural outcome of the the UG community being > directed by > the OGB to go do focussed management and accomplishment of objectives. > A User Group community is a place for User Group _leaders_ (not members) to discuss how to run their UG. This has worked very well in other settings, but it needs to be clear that this is not a community that interests many other developers. The Java User Groups (JUG) Community, in java.net, hosts today almost 200 JUGs, with more then 300.000 developers as members, but only around 130 JUG leaders are discussing in the community itself. Next two weeks I will be running nearly 30 JUG events in Brazil, all organized by JUGs that are collaborating because they are members of the JUGs Community. UG collaboration is very powerful. > With that in mind, what is the role of the user group community? > It's not > managing user groups, but it can offer support - materials, suupport, > infrastructure. And there is overlap with what might be called > marketing. So, > in that context, merging it with the marketing community to form an > outreach community would make sense. > This is what I was afraid of, that by merging the two, the UG community would be simply an appendage of the Mkt community. If the UG community is not independent, then UG will simply consider that it is (another) Sun program that does not work. Been there, done that. Bruno. > -- > -Peter Tribble > http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org Bruno. ______________________________________________________________________ Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe From kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 17:02:34 2007 From: kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com (Kaiwai Gardiner) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:02:34 +1200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [osol-discuss] Audio File Support In-Reply-To: <26408975.1175662197801.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <46127691.6010206@drwetter.org> <26408975.1175662197801.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: On 04/04/07, Richard L. Hamilton wrote: > > > I am not a multimedia guru but I just do not see the > > point for encoding to > > WMA/WMV and friends. Neither from a technical > > perspective or from a usage > > perspective: how many people using Solaris in the > > world would make use of > > this? > > For playback (and if possible, metadata editing), I would think one would > want support for every common format possible. For recording, it > depends on the range of other OSs and devices that also support it. > WMA support must be fairly common; I have an MP3-capable CD player > somewhere that I believe can also play WMA files. Now since it probably > can't play the newer WMA Pro format, and from what I've heard the older > WMA format isn't better than MP3, I don't see why I'd use it - MP3 works > with more stuff. But I can't rule out that it might not be the best choice > for some purposes. > > What I don't get is why Sun can't just get their own license for some of > the formats directly. Even if in some cases they choose to license > someone else's implementation (if they could do so without effectively > paying the format license twice), I would think that would give them more > flexibility. OTOH, it wouldn't build 3rd-party support, which is perhaps > useful too. > > What I don't get even more is what idiot ever thought that _decoders_ > should have any license terms other than compatibility with the encoder > for the use of the name. I mean, 90% of what most people are doing > is decoding (playback), but the real value isn't the format so much as > the content; so paying for an encoder might make sense, but only if > the corresponding decoder is universally available, i.e. free. I think the bigger question that needs to be ask; what did the IP agreement between Microsoft and Sun cover; there was talk about compatibility and interoperability - would that include the ability for Sun to gain access to WMA/WMV etc? It would make little sense paying Fluendo if it can be accomplished by a couple of programmers within Sun. Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 17:25:18 2007 From: kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com (Kaiwai Gardiner) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:25:18 +1200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <46135569.2050400@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <46135569.2050400@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On 04/04/07, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > > > Kaiwai Gardiner wrote On 04/03/07 14:31,: > > Hi, > > > > For me, I don't think the two should merge as both groups have different > > goals; Marketing is setup to evangelise OpenSolaris and its respective > > technologies to the rest of the 'industry' (used int he most loosest of > > terms) and to develop dialogue with the user community, which hopefully > > can then be relayed to the programmers and those who do the design, > > analysis and implementation - call us the intemediary between the users > > and the worker bee's. > > > > What I do propose, however, is for the two to have a closer working > > relationship, as dialogue between the marketing and user group(s) is > > necessary for the 'worker bee's' to know what customers want, who > > current sit outside the Sun 'customer list' - the end users *could* pass > > long requests directly, but the better way would be for us to > > consolidate the issues into one voice so that there is a consist voice > > with a matrix of issues that concern them. > > > I agree that the two need a closer working relationship, which is why > I'm suggesting that they live within one community. Now, that new > community will have many parts -- user groups, presentations, > video/audio, screen-casts, contests, t-shirts, web buttons, advertising, > marketing, branding campaigns, PR activities, profiles, Patrick's > metrics, other forms of technical and non-technical content > (newsletters, etc), conferences & events, etc. Try to think of it > *without* the word "marketing" in mind, but simply the general > evangelization (as Steve suggested) of OpenSolaris. Think of how strong > that new group could be. Also, under the new Constitution, each > Community Group will interact with the OGB. Wouldn't the interests of > the UG and Marketing communities be better served under one combined > voice since so many of their issues overlap? Ultimately, however, the goals of the two organisations are different; on one side you have users who simply want to communicate their pleasure/displeasure/concern and so forth with OpenSolaris and want to have nothing to do with the marketing side of the equation. The problem is pretty much, where doesn't marketing sit in the grand scheme of things? in regards to Sun, for example, if Sun does marketing, what is the OpenSolaris marketing for? if Sun's marketing the 'subscription and support packages' what is our aim? Which brings a bigger question - does OpenSolaris need a home grown community distribution along the lines of Fedora or OpenSuSE given the current dearth of a distribution community? the current OpenSolaris Express CE respins are nice, but for those who aren't familar with OpenSolaris, the idea of downloading something that changes every 2 weeks can be a daunting experience - if there is a release, must I upgrade it? where does it leave me if I stay? which is why I bought up the idea of a community based respository where by releases can be made available not only in iso form, but 'apt-get' respository like form as to allow those who are unfamilar to remain 'up to date' without a constant cycle of re-install and disruption that goes with the territory. Within the community itself there needs to be a greater accomodation of those who new and possibly decenting voices; if there is an issue being raised about a particular issue, and it is being addressed, make sure that the information is on the respective website - the first key to marketing is effective communication; if people don't know what is happening in your (in a generic term) community, then can you blame them for whining on osnews.comor some other outlet about the perceived deficiences and lack of action to correct them through using the communication channels which are available? So before anything is started in the way of 'evanglisation' - all community leaders need to start communicating effectively what is happening in their piece of turf. Trawling through miles of mailing lists discussions isn't effective - there needs to be a one stop point list: "This what we're on about here, this is what we're currently focused on, this is what we are going to be addressing in the near future, and here are some pie in the sky ideas which are floating around" - then with each one, explain, if you're 1/2 through developing a driver for particular widget but need greater testing, then do so, if you're having problem understanding how a driver works which you have ported from another operating system, put it up there, someone from that community might be able to help having experienced the same issue. Communication! Communication! Communication! Communication! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From binarycrusader at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 18:07:12 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 20:07:12 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <46135569.2050400@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On 04/04/07, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: > On 04/04/07, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > Kaiwai Gardiner wrote On 04/03/07 14:31,: > > > Hi, > > > > > > For me, I don't think the two should merge as both groups have different > > > goals; Marketing is setup to evangelise OpenSolaris and its respective > > > technologies to the rest of the 'industry' (used int he most loosest of > > > terms) and to develop dialogue with the user community, which hopefully > > > can then be relayed to the programmers and those who do the design, > > > analysis and implementation - call us the intemediary between the users > > > and the worker bee's. > > > > > > What I do propose, however, is for the two to have a closer working > > > relationship, as dialogue between the marketing and user group(s) is > > > necessary for the 'worker bee's' to know what customers want, who > > > current sit outside the Sun 'customer list' - the end users *could* pass > > > long requests directly, but the better way would be for us to > > > consolidate the issues into one voice so that there is a consist voice > > > with a matrix of issues that concern them. > > > > > > I agree that the two need a closer working relationship, which is why > > I'm suggesting that they live within one community. Now, that new > > community will have many parts -- user groups, presentations, > > video/audio, screen-casts, contests, t-shirts, web buttons, advertising, > > marketing, branding campaigns, PR activities, profiles, Patrick's > > metrics, other forms of technical and non-technical content > > (newsletters, etc), conferences & events, etc. Try to think of it > > *without* the word "marketing" in mind, but simply the general > > evangelization (as Steve suggested) of OpenSolaris. Think of how strong > > that new group could be. Also, under the new Constitution, each > > Community Group will interact with the OGB. Wouldn't the interests of > > the UG and Marketing communities be better served under one combined > > voice since so many of their issues overlap? > Which brings a bigger question - does OpenSolaris need a home grown > community distribution along the lines of Fedora or OpenSuSE given the > current dearth of a distribution community? the current OpenSolaris Express If there's to be a homegrown distribution, it should be just that, homegrown. A community needs to step up and do it, if Sun does it, it really isn't "homegrown." > CE respins are nice, but for those who aren't familar with OpenSolaris, the > idea of downloading something that changes every 2 weeks can be a daunting > experience - if there is a release, must I upgrade it? where does it leave That's what Solaris Developer Express is for. It's updated quarterly, not every two weeks. > me if I stay? which is why I bought up the idea of a community based > respository where by releases can be made available not only in iso form, > but 'apt-get' respository like form as to allow those who are unfamilar to > remain 'up to date' without a constant cycle of re-install and disruption > that goes with the territory. The whole update thing has been brought up before by others. Doing it should be a community project though. I don't think anyone should expect Sun to do it given the costs involved. There are of course many issues to overcome, including redistribution and licensing rights to some of the materials included in Solaris Express, as well as possible technological hurdles. I don't think the average Solaris developer will be interested in a version of Solaris that is akin to break-my-gentoo ;) I think the main point is that if this issue is to be addressed, the community needs to address it. There is no excuse for them not to, after all, Sun has already spent millions (very likely) on this project (beginning from its inception); its only fair the community gives back something. > piece of turf. Trawling through miles of mailing lists discussions isn't > effective - there needs to be a one stop point list: "This what we're on > about here, this is what we're currently focused on, this is what we are > going to be addressing in the near future, and here are some pie in the sky > ideas which are floating around" - then with each one, explain, if you're > 1/2 through developing a driver for particular widget but need greater > testing, then do so, if you're having problem understanding how a driver > works which you have ported from another operating system, put it up there, > someone from that community might be able to help having experienced the > same issue. You're "preaching to the choir" here I think. That's why the community pages exist, why the mailing lists exist and so on. Many of the resources on OpenSolaris.org are geared towards that one goal: communication. However, you can't make folks use them. It is up to each community to be responsible and *communicate* :) Most of these issues you're discussing are something that the OGB will be dealing with (I'm certain) as they look at community structure and organisation and how to encourage growth and development. -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From jabrewer at rochester.rr.com Wed Apr 4 18:09:53 2007 From: jabrewer at rochester.rr.com (John Brewer) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 18:09:53 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Re: Audio File Support Message-ID: <12547961.1175735423480.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> You mentioned only "Sparc platform" in your notes, does this mean that in the contract negotiation , i86pc (x86) Solaris platform might be left out, this I believe it needs to be included across the different architectures if possable. I hope it can be included! This message posted from opensolaris.org From kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 18:46:57 2007 From: kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com (Kaiwai Gardiner) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 13:46:57 +1200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <46135569.2050400@Sun.COM> Message-ID: > > > Which brings a bigger question - does OpenSolaris need a home grown > > community distribution along the lines of Fedora or OpenSuSE given the > > current dearth of a distribution community? the current OpenSolaris > Express > > If there's to be a homegrown distribution, it should be just that, > homegrown. A community needs to step up and do it, if Sun does it, it > really isn't "homegrown." Sun needs to set it up, then gradually hand it over to a 'maintainance' community who will keep the packages up to date, akin to the package maintainers you seen in the FreeBSD ports tree, for example. > CE respins are nice, but for those who aren't familar with OpenSolaris, > the > > idea of downloading something that changes every 2 weeks can be a > daunting > > experience - if there is a release, must I upgrade it? where does it > leave > > That's what Solaris Developer Express is for. It's updated quarterly, > not every two weeks. True, but it doesn't address the issue of security updates, for example. > me if I stay? which is why I bought up the idea of a community based > > respository where by releases can be made available not only in iso > form, > > but 'apt-get' respository like form as to allow those who are unfamilar > to > > remain 'up to date' without a constant cycle of re-install and > disruption > > that goes with the territory. > > The whole update thing has been brought up before by others. Doing it > should be a community project though. I don't think anyone should > expect Sun to do it given the costs involved. There are of course many > issues to overcome, including redistribution and licensing rights to > some of the materials included in Solaris Express, as well as possible > technological hurdles. > > I don't think the average Solaris developer will be interested in a > version of Solaris that is akin to break-my-gentoo ;) > > I think the main point is that if this issue is to be addressed, the > community needs to address it. There is no excuse for them not to, > after all, Sun has already spent millions (very likely) on this > project (beginning from its inception); its only fair the community > gives back something. Sun doesn't need to maintain it for the long term, but to alteast setup a server, get that new boffin thats just been hired to get an apt-get srv5 pkg thing going. Maintain it and gradually hand over control to the community; have mentors in Sun to train up those in the community in how to create packages, as they do in the FreeBSD community with new ports maintainers. Setup a process, a testing, unstable and stable when it comes to updating packages; if it is a security update, it is fast tracked from unstable to stable; if it is a 'update' - libxml has been updated by x.x.1 then the transition may need to be slower. Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 18:49:21 2007 From: kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com (Kaiwai Gardiner) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 13:49:21 +1200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Re: Audio File Support In-Reply-To: <12547961.1175735423480.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <12547961.1175735423480.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: On 05/04/07, John Brewer wrote: > > You mentioned only "Sparc platform" in your notes, does this mean that in > the contract negotiation , i86pc (x86) Solaris platform might be left out, > this I believe it needs to be included across the different architectures if > possable. I hope it can be included! Who are you replying to? if I don't see a quote, I don't know who you're talking to and in what context. For me, I mentioned both x86 and SPARC; but like I said previously, with the IP arrangement with Microsoft, there should be no reason for Sun being able to have access to the source code. Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From binarycrusader at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 19:12:56 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 21:12:56 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <46135569.2050400@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On 04/04/07, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: > > > Which brings a bigger question - does OpenSolaris need a home grown > > > community distribution along the lines of Fedora or OpenSuSE given the > > > current dearth of a distribution community? the current OpenSolaris > Express > > > > If there's to be a homegrown distribution, it should be just that, > > homegrown. A community needs to step up and do it, if Sun does it, it > > really isn't "homegrown." > > > Sun needs to set it up, then gradually hand it over to a 'maintainance' > community who will keep the packages up to date, akin to the package > maintainers you seen in the FreeBSD ports tree, for example. Why does Sun need to do it? There is literally a mountain of documentation over at docs.sun.com which is probably enough to tell people how to do most of what they need to. > > > CE respins are nice, but for those who aren't familar with OpenSolaris, > the > > > idea of downloading something that changes every 2 weeks can be a > daunting > > > experience - if there is a release, must I upgrade it? where does it > leave > > > > That's what Solaris Developer Express is for. It's updated quarterly, > > not every two weeks. > > > True, but it doesn't address the issue of security updates, for example. Yes, that is a sore spot that I think should be addressed, but I know the community can address that issue if they want to. It would require building patches which is a well documented process. > > > me if I stay? which is why I bought up the idea of a community based > > > respository where by releases can be made available not only in iso > form, > > > but 'apt-get' respository like form as to allow those who are unfamilar > to > > > remain 'up to date' without a constant cycle of re-install and > disruption > > > that goes with the territory. > > > > The whole update thing has been brought up before by others. Doing it > > should be a community project though. I don't think anyone should > > expect Sun to do it given the costs involved. There are of course many > > issues to overcome, including redistribution and licensing rights to > > some of the materials included in Solaris Express, as well as possible > > technological hurdles. > > > > I don't think the average Solaris developer will be interested in a > > version of Solaris that is akin to break-my-gentoo ;) > > > > I think the main point is that if this issue is to be addressed, the > > community needs to address it. There is no excuse for them not to, > > after all, Sun has already spent millions (very likely) on this > > project (beginning from its inception); its only fair the community > > gives back something. > > > > Sun doesn't need to maintain it for the long term, but to alteast setup a > server, get that new boffin thats just been hired to get an apt-get srv5 pkg > thing going. Maintain it and gradually hand over control to the community; > have mentors in Sun to train up those in the community in how to create > packages, as they do in the FreeBSD community with new ports maintainers. I don't know why you are obsessing over an "apt-get" thing. It doesn't have to be apt-get, it could be pkg-get or any other tool for that matter. I think more general terms would be helpful rather than implying you want some "debian" thing. As far as "mentors" for creating packages. I sincerely doubt that is necessary. Creating packages and patches on Solaris is an extremely well documented process (unlike on other unnamed operating systems). Heck, you can create packages pretty easily using http://pkgbuild.sourceforge.net/ like the desktop community, or you can even use Philip Brown's wonderful "gnutopkg" script here: http://www.bolthole.com/solaris/gnutopkg. I even have an improved version of it here: http://icculus.org/~eviltypeguy/pkg/ along with several sample Solaris packages. > Setup a process, a testing, unstable and stable when it comes to updating > packages; if it is a security update, it is fast tracked from unstable to > stable; if it is a 'update' - libxml has been updated by x.x.1 then the > transition may need to be slower. > > Matthew All of this process is already defined. If you read through the documentation, you'll find almost all of it is already there. Release taxonomies, Solaris engineering principles, package building, patch creation, the whole works! Most of it is on docs.sun.com, the other portion is on opensolaris.org. Really, someone with the time and motivation could easily get a project running fairly easily. Doing it for Solaris Express may not be legally practical at the moment, but doing it for a "homegrown" distribution would certainly be... -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From Brian.Cameron at Sun.COM Wed Apr 4 20:35:32 2007 From: Brian.Cameron at Sun.COM (Brian Cameron) Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 11:35:32 +0800 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [osol-discuss] Audio File Support In-Reply-To: <362231.23261.qm@web33611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <362231.23261.qm@web33611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46146E84.7050307@sun.com> Ken: > The Gstreamer framework is well supported on Solaris > 8->10 and Solaris Express so the question really goes > into the plugins. Not sure what you mean by "well supported". Although the GStreamer framework does exist on Solaris 10, it is GStreamer 0.8 and not 0.10. Note that the Fluendo plugins only work with 0.10, so it would be a bit of work to port GStreamer 0.10 to earlier versions of Solaris if we want to make Fluendo plugins available to Solaris 10 (or earlier) users. > Proprietary plugins from Fluendo may come at a cost > for support, maintenance, and licenses. > > This doesn't mean you can't have the full GStreamer > framework with the "license free" plugins. > > Also, you have to look closely at what plugins are > available for Solaris versus Linux. Check if the WMA > 10 codecs are supported. My understanding is that WMA/WMV support is the same on Solaris versus Linux. The main difference is that Fluendo has MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 plugins for Linux, but not Solaris. I think I explained in detail why, in my previous message. > Users may ask why is this needed on Solaris? Well, for > those people who are into embedded > servers/workstations as well as content creation. > Also, cross platform development projects where > Solaris is used on desktop/workstations. If there is enough demand (especialy if there is an interest in helping with funding), then I'm sure Fluendo would be interested to talk. Brian From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Thu Apr 5 10:57:08 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:57:08 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Updated community metrics In-Reply-To: <459E2F26.2000806@sun.com> References: <450ABC53.3080805@sun.com> <45264901.2070908@sun.com> <454B4FE0.2070602@sun.com> <4579BBA6.5@sun.com> <459E2F26.2000806@sun.com> Message-ID: <46153874.5050204@sun.com> All, I updated the metrics here: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/metrics/latest/ We have seen massive growth in the community in the last month, almost certainly as a result of the Starter Kit. regards Patrick From julien.gabel at thilelli.net Thu Apr 5 11:06:17 2007 From: julien.gabel at thilelli.net (Julien Gabel) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 20:06:17 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] OpenSolaris Day at Sun Tech Days: preso. Message-ID: Hi, I am looking for the "downloadable" presos which where given during the OpenSolaris Day in Paris, France (19/03/2007). Although the web page [1] was updated with content links on 30/03/2007, these seems to point to "internal" access only, i.e. hi.sfbay. Is there any way to get them from the outside ? [1] http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/events/techdays/paris/ Thank you. -- julien. http://www.thilelli.net/~jgabel/ From Ken.Tomlinson at Sun.COM Thu Apr 5 13:04:11 2007 From: Ken.Tomlinson at Sun.COM (Ken Tomlinson) Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:04:11 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [website-discuss] Updates of the monthly highlights pages In-Reply-To: <4614307C.8050606@sun.com> References: <25820753.1175668248702.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <4614307C.8050606@sun.com> Message-ID: <4615563B.2070902@sun.com> Hello OpenSolaris marketing, Do you have any thoughts to share about my suggestions below? -Ken Derek Cicero wrote: > Ken Tomlinson wrote: > >> I noticed the monthly highlights pages are nearly a year behind: >> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/highlights/ >> >> I would be cool to have the latest months added. >> For the links themselves, we should always include both month and >> year using >> a conventional naming scheme. >> >> Finally, perhaps these no long need to include the usage statistics >> but could >> simply contain pointers to what's available here: >> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/metrics/ > > > I know they are moving to monthly updates going forward, but I would > suggest pinging marketing-discuss for more info. > > Derek > >> >> >> This message posted from opensolaris.org >> _______________________________________________ >> website-discuss mailing list >> website-discuss at opensolaris.org >> > > -- Ken Tomlinson | Sun Microsystems, ICNC Solaris RPE France/Germany manager | 180 Av. de l'Europe, ZIRST email:Ken.Tomlinson at sun.com | 38334 Montbonnot St. Martin, FRANCE http://rpe.sfbay (global team) | Phone: +33 4 76 18 81 06 http://icnc-cte.france (ICNC team) | Mobile: +33 6 85 83 09 88 From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Apr 5 16:13:36 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:13:36 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> Peter Tribble wrote On 04/05/07 05:08,: > On 4/3/07, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >> Hello ... >> >> I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User >> Group Community: >> >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/ >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ > > ... > >> So, any thoughts pro or con? > > > I'm sort of split, and if that's all that happens I'm against it. > > What I think is flawed with the current structure is the idea that there's > a "user group community" and that user groups live under that community. > I think that's wrong. User groups are, well, user groups and ought to be > first-class citizens in their own right, alongside communities and not > placed underneath. Hi, Peter ... So, are you saying that each user group would be a full community like the other 40 or so communities we have now? If so, then they'd all have to get OGB approval. > Certainly under my understanding of the constitution user groups themselves > should be completely divorced from communities. I don't see LOSUG, for > example, as a natural outcome of the the UG community being directed by > the OGB to go do focused management and accomplishment of objectives. The only reason UGs are all under a single meta-UG community is that there was no other place to put them on the site. There's nothing to say that we need any user groups on the site at all, actually. And UGs can use Google/Yahoo lists as well so they are completely independent of the OpenSolaris site. I'm perfectly happy for that to be the case and have never viewed all the activity in the OpenSolaris community to necessarily have to take place on opensolairs.org. If we don't put them in a meta-community, though, then we don't really have a place for them under the current site structure. I know that people want a wiki feature on the site and that's being specified right now, so maybe individual UGs can take a wiki page someplace and we can remove the UG community altogether. That's certainly an option as well. But I agree: the current set up can't scale at all. Jim > With that in mind, what is the role of the user group community? It's not > managing user groups, but it can offer support - materials, suupport, > infrastructure. And there is overlap with what might be called > marketing. So, > in that context, merging it with the marketing community to form an > outreach community would make sense. > From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Apr 5 16:16:59 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:16:59 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <46135569.2050400@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4615836B.8020007@Sun.COM> Kaiwai Gardiner wrote On 04/05/07 09:25,: > Ultimately, however, the goals of the two organizations are different; > on one side you have users who simply want to communicate their > pleasure/displeasure/concern and so forth with OpenSolaris and want to > have nothing to do with the marketing side of the equation. Hello, Kaiwai ... I would argue that "community" marketing is very much the process of communicating "pleasure/displeasure/concern," etc. Community marketing (for lack of a better term, I guess) is based on open conversations and direct engagement, whereas corporate marketing has been traditionally based largely on delivering messages into markets from the outside with very little participation involved. The marketing community on OpenSolaris is not about delivering messages; it's about creating a community effort based on open participation in community issues to spread the word about OpenSolaris. In this discussion, I've been advocating dropping the word "marketing" because it's obvious that it gets in the way. I also see UGs as being directly related since they produce content, they evangelize OpenSolaris, they talk openly on lists, they hold meetings, etc. They, quite literally, create something from nothing and they do it largely based on their own initiatives. > The problem is pretty much, where doesn't marketing sit in the grand > scheme of things? in regards to Sun, for example, if Sun does marketing, > what is the OpenSolaris marketing for? if Sun's marketing the > 'subscription and support packages' what is our aim? Sun has formal marketing programs for products and services and occasionally pitches in to help promote OpenSolaris. Sun spends millions on the effort, too, with all sorts of global programs. However, Sun does not do a lot of grass-roots activities around OpenSolaris. That's just not what big companies do for the most part. Sun, however, has given us a site, some code, and some tools and from that we can create our own stuff. That's what I'm trying to say. Forget Sun in this conversation and forget the word "marketing." Let's just talk about how the OpenSolaris /community/ gets the word out about the OpenSolaris and how we as a community engage each other. We go to conferences. We talk on lists. We design t-shirts. We build distros. We hack code. We form user groups. We do press interviews. Etc. How do we take all those activities and quantify them a bit more? How do we engage new people? How do we make it easier for people to get involved? Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Apr 5 16:42:00 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:42:00 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46158948.4010302@Sun.COM> Bruno F. Souza wrote On 04/05/07 07:12,: > > On 04/04/2007, at 17:08, Peter Tribble wrote: > >> >> What I think is flawed with the current structure is the idea that >> there's >> a "user group community" and that user groups live under that community. >> I think that's wrong. User groups are, well, user groups and ought to be >> first-class citizens in their own right, alongside communities and not >> placed underneath. >> >> Certainly under my understanding of the constitution user groups >> themselves >> should be completely divorced from communities. I don't see LOSUG, for >> example, as a natural outcome of the the UG community being directed by >> the OGB to go do focussed management and accomplishment of objectives. >> > > A User Group community is a place for User Group _leaders_ (not > members) to discuss how to run their UG. Absolutely true. But there's a little 'but' in there, too. Each user group has their own list but I had wanted ug-discuss to be the meta list so that members of all user groups could potentially talk to each other easily to share ideas, stories, materials, etc as well. > This has worked very well in other settings, but it needs to be clear > that this is not a community that interests many other developers. > The Java User Groups (JUG) Community, in java.net, hosts today almost > 200 JUGs, with more then 300.000 developers as members, but only around > 130 JUG leaders are discussing in the community itself. That's interesting. Ok, so we are not that out of the ordinary, then. If only the leaders communicate across lists on ug-discuss, I think that's fine, too. > Next two weeks I will be running nearly 30 JUG events in Brazil, all > organized by JUGs that are collaborating because they are members of > the JUGs Community. UG collaboration is very powerful. > >> With that in mind, what is the role of the user group community? It's >> not >> managing user groups, but it can offer support - materials, support, >> infrastructure. And there is overlap with what might be called >> marketing. So, >> in that context, merging it with the marketing community to form an >> outreach community would make sense. >> > > This is what I was afraid of, that by merging the two, the UG community > would be simply an appendage of the Mkt community. If the UG community > is not independent, then UG will simply consider that it is (another) > Sun program that does not work. Been there, done that. I'm not sure why this has to be the case. The term "Marketing Community" will go away and the term "UG Community" will go away and both will be replaced by a new name (which we now have two proposals). No one will be an appendage of anyone. And, potentially, that new community could be much better represented under the Constitution, since it will be bigger, more focused, and more active and probably better able to create an environment where general users can participate in OpenSolaris. The leaders would have to implement that, though, and I'm coming to believe that there is little interest for that at this time. Also, the UG Community (the meta community, I mean) is as independent -- or not -- as any community on OpenSolaris and is governed by the OpenSolaris Constitution, not Sun. I'm not sure why there is a concern about "Sun" in this case. Sun has very little interest or control in the matter currently. There simply is no UG program -- it's a mail list and a page on the site. Since the UG Community structure is clearly broken (as a result of its success under a somewhat limited site structure not designed for how we have implemented the community), I think we ought to explore if the upcoming wiki space would be a better solution for making that one community more visible and easier for people to use. That will solve one problem right there. Jim From sch at sun.com Thu Apr 5 19:43:25 2007 From: sch at sun.com (Stephen Hahn) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 19:43:25 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> * Jim Grisanzio [2007-04-05 16:13]: > If we don't put them in a meta-community, though, then we don't really > have a place for them under the current site structure. I know that > people want a wiki feature on the site and that's being specified > right now, so maybe individual UGs can take a wiki page someplace and > we can remove the UG community altogether. That's certainly an option > as well. But I agree: the current set up can't scale at all. *cough* Projects *cough* My name suggestion (really Simon's from a year ago or so): Advocates. - Stephen -- sch at sun.com http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ From kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com Thu Apr 5 20:36:36 2007 From: kaiwai.gardiner at gmail.com (Kaiwai Gardiner) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 15:36:36 +1200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4615836B.8020007@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <46135569.2050400@Sun.COM> <4615836B.8020007@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On 06/04/07, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > > Kaiwai Gardiner wrote On 04/05/07 09:25,: > > > Ultimately, however, the goals of the two organizations are different; > > on one side you have users who simply want to communicate their > > pleasure/displeasure/concern and so forth with OpenSolaris and want to > > have nothing to do with the marketing side of the equation. > > Hello, Kaiwai ... > > I would argue that "community" marketing is very much the process of > communicating "pleasure/displeasure/concern," etc. Community marketing > (for lack of a better term, I guess) is based on open conversations and > direct engagement, whereas corporate marketing has been traditionally > based largely on delivering messages into markets from the outside with > very little participation involved. The marketing community on > OpenSolaris is not about delivering messages; it's about creating a > community effort based on open participation in community issues to > spread the word about OpenSolaris. In this discussion, I've been > advocating dropping the word "marketing" because it's obvious that it > gets in the way. I also see UGs as being directly related since they > produce content, they evangelize OpenSolaris, they talk openly on lists, > they hold meetings, etc. They, quite literally, create something from > nothing and they do it largely based on their own initiatives. Ah, if it is done that way, then sure; the way I saw 'user groups' was along the lines of 'technical support' discussion list; as long as the marketing list doesn't end up getting unindated by requests for technical support, it should be all good. The community could be called 'non-Technical' which embraced a general discussion list, marketing discussion and technical support discussion. > The problem is pretty much, where doesn't marketing sit in the grand > > scheme of things? in regards to Sun, for example, if Sun does marketing, > > what is the OpenSolaris marketing for? if Sun's marketing the > > 'subscription and support packages' what is our aim? > > Sun has formal marketing programs for products and services and > occasionally pitches in to help promote OpenSolaris. Sun spends millions > on the effort, too, with all sorts of global programs. However, Sun does > not do a lot of grass-roots activities around OpenSolaris. That's just > not what big companies do for the most part. Sun, however, has given us > a site, some code, and some tools and from that we can create our own > stuff. That's what I'm trying to say. Forget Sun in this conversation > and forget the word "marketing." Let's just talk about how the > OpenSolaris /community/ gets the word out about the OpenSolaris and how > we as a community engage each other. We go to conferences. We talk on > lists. We design t-shirts. We build distros. We hack code. We form user > groups. We do press interviews. Etc. How do we take all those activities > and quantify them a bit more? How do we engage new people? How do we > make it easier for people to get involved? So the correct way of seeing it would be that Sun marketing is a member of the marketing community where by they contribute to the marketing of OpenSolaris as well as marketing their own services and products. As for grass root 'activities' the problem with leaving up to a large business is this; its like leaving something up to a government department to manage - and we all know successful they are at doing something :-) Getting back to a grass roots, my pet project will be on the hardware support documentation for first time installers then I'll worry about other things later :-) Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Apr 5 20:40:10 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:40:10 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> Message-ID: <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> Stephen Hahn wrote On 04/06/07 11:43,: > * Jim Grisanzio [2007-04-05 16:13]: > >>If we don't put them in a meta-community, though, then we don't really >>have a place for them under the current site structure. I know that >>people want a wiki feature on the site and that's being specified >>right now, so maybe individual UGs can take a wiki page someplace and >>we can remove the UG community altogether. That's certainly an option >>as well. But I agree: the current set up can't scale at all. > > > *cough* Projects *cough* > > My name suggestion (really Simon's from a year ago or so): Advocates. > > - Stephen Oh, cool, I like that. Ok. :) I'm an idiot. And we can do that right now without any merger or need to propose new site changes, and it solves the immediate structural problem with the UG community. UGs can still have their own spaces/lists and still communicate across groups via ug-discuss. Each existing user group becomes a project, and new user groups can go through the same project proposal process currently in place. I like Advocates, too. We now have three possible names: Advocates, Evangelism, Outreach. I see little consensus for a merger, but if we can solve the structural problem with the UG community that would go a long way to making that community more effective. I say we do it. Other comments? Jim From stevel at sun.com Thu Apr 5 21:16:16 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 21:16:16 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20070406041616.GD731800@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 12:40:10PM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > > Stephen Hahn wrote On 04/06/07 11:43,: > >* Jim Grisanzio [2007-04-05 16:13]: > > > >>If we don't put them in a meta-community, though, then we don't really > >>have a place for them under the current site structure. I know that > >>people want a wiki feature on the site and that's being specified > >>right now, so maybe individual UGs can take a wiki page someplace and > >>we can remove the UG community altogether. That's certainly an option > >>as well. But I agree: the current set up can't scale at all. > > > > > > *cough* Projects *cough* > > > > My name suggestion (really Simon's from a year ago or so): Advocates. > > > > - Stephen > > > > Oh, cool, I like that. Ok. :) I'm an idiot. > > And we can do that right now without any merger or need to propose new > site changes, and it solves the immediate structural problem with the UG > community. UGs can still have their own spaces/lists and still > communicate across groups via ug-discuss. Each existing user group > becomes a project, and new user groups can go through the same project > proposal process currently in place. > > I like Advocates, too. We now have three possible names: Advocates, > Evangelism, Outreach. I see little consensus for a merger, but if we can > solve the structural problem with the UG community that would go a long > way to making that community more effective. > > I say we do it. Other comments? I'm actually in favour of the merger, as long as the name changes to one of those 3. I like Advocates, but fear it overlaps with the terminology of CRT Advocates and RTI Advocates, etc. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Apr 5 21:27:17 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 13:27:17 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <20070406041616.GD731800@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> <20070406041616.GD731800@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4615CC25.2040104@Sun.COM> Stephen Lau wrote On 04/06/07 13:16,: > On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 12:40:10PM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >> >>Stephen Hahn wrote On 04/06/07 11:43,: >> >>>* Jim Grisanzio [2007-04-05 16:13]: >>> >>> >>>>If we don't put them in a meta-community, though, then we don't really >>>>have a place for them under the current site structure. I know that >>>>people want a wiki feature on the site and that's being specified >>>>right now, so maybe individual UGs can take a wiki page someplace and >>>>we can remove the UG community altogether. That's certainly an option >>>>as well. But I agree: the current set up can't scale at all. >>> >>> >>> *cough* Projects *cough* >>> >>> My name suggestion (really Simon's from a year ago or so): Advocates. >>> >>> - Stephen >> >> >> >>Oh, cool, I like that. Ok. :) I'm an idiot. >> >>And we can do that right now without any merger or need to propose new >>site changes, and it solves the immediate structural problem with the UG >>community. UGs can still have their own spaces/lists and still >>communicate across groups via ug-discuss. Each existing user group >>becomes a project, and new user groups can go through the same project >>proposal process currently in place. >> >>I like Advocates, too. We now have three possible names: Advocates, >>Evangelism, Outreach. I see little consensus for a merger, but if we can >>solve the structural problem with the UG community that would go a long >>way to making that community more effective. >> >>I say we do it. Other comments? > > > I'm actually in favour of the merger, as long as the name changes to one > of those 3. I like Advocates, but fear it overlaps with the terminology > of CRT Advocates and RTI Advocates, etc. And the notion of making user groups projects? Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Apr 5 21:38:08 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 13:38:08 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <46135569.2050400@Sun.COM> <4615836B.8020007@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4615CEB0.8030405@Sun.COM> Kaiwai Gardiner wrote On 04/06/07 12:36,: > On 06/04/07, *Jim Grisanzio* > wrote: > > > Kaiwai Gardiner wrote On 04/05/07 09:25,: > > > Ultimately, however, the goals of the two organizations are > different; > > on one side you have users who simply want to communicate their > > pleasure/displeasure/concern and so forth with OpenSolaris and > want to > > have nothing to do with the marketing side of the equation. > > Hello, Kaiwai ... > > I would argue that "community" marketing is very much the process of > communicating "pleasure/displeasure/concern," etc. Community marketing > (for lack of a better term, I guess) is based on open conversations and > direct engagement, whereas corporate marketing has been traditionally > based largely on delivering messages into markets from the outside with > very little participation involved. The marketing community on > OpenSolaris is not about delivering messages; it's about creating a > community effort based on open participation in community issues to > spread the word about OpenSolaris. In this discussion, I've been > advocating dropping the word "marketing" because it's obvious that it > gets in the way. I also see UGs as being directly related since they > produce content, they evangelize OpenSolaris, they talk openly on lists, > they hold meetings, etc. They, quite literally, create something from > nothing and they do it largely based on their own initiatives. > > > Ah, if it is done that way, then sure; the way I saw 'user groups' was > along the lines of 'technical support' discussion list; as long as the > marketing list doesn't end up getting unindated by requests for > technical support, it should be all good Well, under my merger theory, the "marketing" list goes away and becomes re-named to whatever we decide is the new community would be named. That list would be merged with ug-discuss, so we'd have one meta list for Advocacy (or whatever it's called) and each individual UG keeps their own local lists, where they have local discussions as well as technical discussions. So ... opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org & ug-discuss at opensolaris.org are merged into xxx at opensolaris.org under the new xxx community. Each UG keeps its own list but becomes a project associated with the new xxx community. I'm fine to leave the merger idea sit for now but just clean up the UG community by making them projects. We'll see what other say. > The community could be called 'non-Technical' which embraced a general > discussion list, marketing discussion and technical support discussion. > > > The problem is pretty much, where doesn't marketing sit in the grand > > scheme of things? in regards to Sun, for example, if Sun does > marketing, > > what is the OpenSolaris marketing for? if Sun's marketing the > > 'subscription and support packages' what is our aim? > > Sun has formal marketing programs for products and services and > occasionally pitches in to help promote OpenSolaris. Sun spends > millions > on the effort, too, with all sorts of global programs. However, Sun does > not do a lot of grass-roots activities around OpenSolaris. That's just > not what big companies do for the most part. Sun, however, has given us > a site, some code, and some tools and from that we can create our own > stuff. That's what I'm trying to say. Forget Sun in this conversation > and forget the word "marketing." Let's just talk about how the > OpenSolaris /community/ gets the word out about the OpenSolaris and how > we as a community engage each other. We go to conferences. We talk on > lists. We design t-shirts. We build distros. We hack code. We form user > groups. We do press interviews. Etc. How do we take all those activities > and quantify them a bit more? How do we engage new people? How do we > make it easier for people to get involved? > > > So the correct way of seeing it would be that Sun marketing is a member > of the marketing community where by they contribute to the marketing of > OpenSolaris as well as marketing their own services and products. Yes, pretty much. Those who have community activities participate; those who don't stay internal and work on Sun-specific issues. > As for grass root 'activities' the problem with leaving up to a large > business is this; its like leaving something up to a government > department to manage - and we all know successful they are at doing > something :-) > > Getting back to a grass roots, my pet project will be on the hardware > support documentation for first time installers then I'll worry about > other things later :-) > > Matthew From Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com Fri Apr 6 00:06:28 2007 From: Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com (Alan DuBoff) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 00:06:28 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing =?iso-8859-1?q?& UGs?= In-Reply-To: <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> Message-ID: <200704060006.28058.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> On Thursday 05 April 2007 07:43 pm, Stephen Hahn wrote: > * Jim Grisanzio [2007-04-05 16:13]: > > If we don't put them in a meta-community, though, then we don't really > > have a place for them under the current site structure. I know that > > people want a wiki feature on the site and that's being specified > > right now, so maybe individual UGs can take a wiki page someplace and > > we can remove the UG community altogether. That's certainly an option > > as well. But I agree: the current set up can't scale at all. > > *cough* Projects *cough* > > My name suggestion (really Simon's from a year ago or so): Advocates. That's a good suggestion. I like it. +1, or 2-, whatever we do... -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group Advocate of insourcing at Sun - hire people that care about our company! From Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com Fri Apr 6 00:12:46 2007 From: Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com (Alan DuBoff) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 00:12:46 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing =?iso-8859-1?q?& UGs?= In-Reply-To: <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <200704060012.46355.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> On Thursday 05 April 2007 08:40 pm, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > I like Advocates, too. We now have three possible names: Advocates, > Evangelism, Outreach. I like Stephen's suggestion best. Advocates is the best of all of them. -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group Advocate of insourcing at Sun - hire people that care about our company! From Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com Fri Apr 6 00:22:17 2007 From: Alan.DuBoff at Sun.Com (Alan DuBoff) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 00:22:17 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing =?iso-8859-1?q?& UGs?= In-Reply-To: <46158948.4010302@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <46158948.4010302@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <200704060022.17652.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> On Thursday 05 April 2007 04:42 pm, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Absolutely true. But there's a little 'but' in there, too. Each user > group has their own list but I had wanted ug-discuss to be the meta list > so that members of all user groups could potentially talk to each other > easily to share ideas, stories, materials, etc as well. But if we form small communities within, we end up being divided, to some extent. I believe if we do that we encourage segregation, my 2 yen. > > This has worked very well in other settings, but it needs to be clear > > that this is not a community that interests many other developers. > > The Java User Groups (JUG) Community, in java.net, hosts today almost > > 200 JUGs, with more then 300.000 developers as members, but only around > > 130 JUG leaders are discussing in the community itself. > > That's interesting. Ok, so we are not that out of the ordinary, then. If > only the leaders communicate across lists on ug-discuss, I think that's > fine, too. I think these type of numbers are eluding, and I think the strength of a community is hard to put numbers to. I think 130 JUG leaders participating is good. We don't have nearly that many, I don't hear from most of the user group community, I wish they would be more vocal. > Since the UG Community structure is clearly broken (as a result of its > success under a somewhat limited site structure not designed for how we > have implemented the community), I think we ought to explore if the > upcoming wiki space would be a better solution for making that one > community more visible and easier for people to use. That will solve one > problem right there. That's a good idea, IMO. -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 Engineering - IHV/OEM Group Advocate of insourcing at Sun - hire people that care about our company! From Tim.Foster at Sun.COM Fri Apr 6 00:59:25 2007 From: Tim.Foster at Sun.COM (Tim Foster) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:59:25 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> hi Folks, Sorry for not chiming in till now. Jim Grisanzio wrote: > I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User > Group Community: I agree. I've always thought it'd be really nice if these groups could work more closely together - indeed, putting up the "talks & presentation" pages and the "how you can help opensolaris marketing" pages was definitely targeting both communities. As they put it in the Life Of Brian, "Brothers, we should be struggling together!" ;-) I also like the idea of each ug getting it's own project - if even for the nicer URLs it'll generate. One comment about a recent IEOSUG poster we did, was that http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ie-osug/iosug-9 doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. Advocate seems like a nice name to me, though I think I prefer Ambassador[1] - it's a gentler term than Advocate, which like Evangelist suggests to me some sort of foaming-at-the-mouth zealot (though not nearly as strongly as Evangelist does) Ambassador would imply that we're a more diplomatic bunch than that. I'm easy about the name though - it's what we do that's important. cheers, tim [1] This might confuse some Sun-employees I admit. There are programmes inside Sun where sales engineers can become "OS Ambassadors", "Network Ambassadors", etc. potential confusion there if there's ever an Sun-internal "OpenSolaris Ambassador" programme. However, what those guys do, and what we do is virtually the same thing: http://blogs.sun.com/jimlaurent/entry/what_is_a_sun_os -- Tim Foster, Sun Microsystems Inc, Solaris Engineering Ops http://blogs.sun.com/timf From peter.tribble at gmail.com Fri Apr 6 01:21:39 2007 From: peter.tribble at gmail.com (Peter Tribble) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:21:39 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On 4/6/07, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > So, are you saying that each user group would be a full community like > the other 40 or so communities we have now? If so, then they'd all have > to get OGB approval. No. They would be user groups. Think more like projects, as Stephen mentioned. Only they're not called projects. They're called user groups. And would have a separate listing and a separate entry in the site navigation. But a project is probably a good comparison. So a user group has known leaders, a mailing list if it wants it, a place on the website. No source code, though. > The only reason UGs are all under a single meta-UG community is that > there was no other place to put them on the site. Yes, we need to get away from the "everything is either a community or a project" idea. At which point it may be worth wondering if there are any other structural groupings required. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Fri Apr 6 01:34:34 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:34:34 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4616061A.90108@Sun.COM> Peter Tribble wrote On 04/06/07 17:21,: > On 4/6/07, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >> So, are you saying that each user group would be a full community like >> the other 40 or so communities we have now? If so, then they'd all have >> to get OGB approval. > > > No. They would be user groups. Think more like projects, as Stephen > mentioned. Yep. I see that now and agree. > Only they're not called projects. They're called user groups. And would > have > a separate listing and a separate entry in the site navigation. But a > project is > probably a good comparison. So a user group has known leaders, a mailing > list if it wants it, a place on the website. No source code, though. > >> The only reason UGs are all under a single meta-UG community is that >> there was no other place to put them on the site. > > > Yes, we need to get away from the "everything is either a community or > a project" idea. At which point it may be worth wondering if there are > any other structural groupings required. From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Fri Apr 6 01:40:59 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:40:59 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> Message-ID: <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> hey, Tim ... Tim Foster wrote On 04/06/07 16:59,: > hi Folks, > > Sorry for not chiming in till now. > > Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >> I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User >> Group Community: > > > I agree. I've always thought it'd be really nice if these groups could > work more closely together - indeed, putting up the "talks & > presentation" pages and the "how you can help opensolaris marketing" > pages was definitely targeting both communities. > > As they put it in the Life Of Brian, "Brothers, we should be struggling > together!" ;-) > > I also like the idea of each ug getting it's own project - if even for > the nicer URLs it'll generate. One comment about a recent IEOSUG poster > we did, was that > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ie-osug/iosug-9 > doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. Oh, come on, that's a perfectly lovely url. :) I agree, though, a project space will be an excellent solution to offer UGs and clean up site issues right now. > Advocate seems like a nice name to me, though I think I prefer > Ambassador[1] - it's a gentler term than Advocate, which like > Evangelist suggests to me some sort of foaming-at-the-mouth zealot > (though not nearly as strongly as Evangelist does) > > Ambassador would imply that we're a more diplomatic bunch than that. > Ok, cool, so the list grows: * Ambassador Community * Advocates Community * Evangelism Community or Evangelization Community * Outreach Community More candidates welcome ... Jim > I'm easy about the name though - it's what we do that's important. > > > cheers, > tim > > > [1] This might confuse some Sun-employees I admit. There are > programmes inside Sun where sales engineers can become > "OS Ambassadors", "Network Ambassadors", etc. potential > confusion there if there's ever an Sun-internal "OpenSolaris > Ambassador" programme. However, what those guys do, and what > we do is virtually the same thing: > http://blogs.sun.com/jimlaurent/entry/what_is_a_sun_os > From Bruno.Souza at Sun.COM Fri Apr 6 07:39:30 2007 From: Bruno.Souza at Sun.COM (Bruno F. Souza) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 11:39:30 -0300 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <5146CABB-D38E-486D-BA8E-11693790A35D@Sun.COM> On 06/04/2007, at 00:40, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > > Stephen Hahn wrote On 04/06/07 11:43,: >> >> *cough* Projects *cough* >> My name suggestion (really Simon's from a year ago or so): >> Advocates. >> - Stephen > > > > Oh, cool, I like that. Ok. :) I'm an idiot. > > And we can do that right now without any merger or need to propose > new site changes, and it solves the immediate structural problem > with the UG community. UGs can still have their own spaces/lists > and still communicate across groups via ug-discuss. Each existing > user group becomes a project, and new user groups can go through > the same project proposal process currently in place. > Ok, I'm an idiot too :-) I'm so used to the way we structured java.net Java User Groups, that I didn't notice it was being done different here... So, java.net has the same issue that we have here: the site infrastructure was created to host software projects, not really "communities". Let me describe the way we "solved" that for UG on java.net, this may be a good starting point for the UG community for OpenSolaris. - there is a JUGs Community: this is where JUG leaders join and discuss joint efforts. The JUGs Community has a few mailing lists that are targeted for JUG leaders to discuss things, and hosts very few content by itself. It is more like a discussion on how each leader can make his own group more effective by learning from others. - each JUG can request a project on java.net, that will go "under" the JUGs Community. The project hosts the JUG mailing lists, files, etc. Some JUGs even have _software_ projects, that are hosted as sub- projects of their JUG. One important thing is that in java.net project requests are not a "community wide" thing. So, JUGs request projects for the JGs Community, and that gets approved by JUG Community Leaders, that are elected by the JUG Leaders. So, when a JUG request a project, it can be approved right away (it is actually put under the incubator, and when JUGs comply with a few requirements, like creating a web page, etc they are "graduated" to become a project under the JUGs Community). It does not need to go trough any "community wide" approval or vote. - The JUGs Community on java.net recognizes that JUGs may be part of the community even if they don't ever request a project in it. So, the JUGs listing lists all JUGs that want to be listed, no matter where they host their members. And the JUGs Community is still the place for the JUG leaders to discuss, even when their JUGs don't share the java.net infrastructure. Some JUGs even don't trust Sun enough to request their members to register in java.net (since java.net is a Sun infrastructure). But they are part of the JUGs Community nonetheless. - JUGs then have their own java.net space, that this is all their members really see. Also, more organized JUGs also have their own (outside java.net) web space. Since JUG members are Java developers that care about the technology and learning how to use, etc, they can do this under each JUG, even if they never care for the "JUGs Community" itself. Most developers don't anyway. - This may look like "dividing" the community, but it is actually empowering the local communities. UGs will bring local developers close together, and support their activities. Developers will also participate on the larger community by themselves (like joining other forums and projects), but when they have a place they can come to to discuss and defend their local interests, it is easier to get their companies involved, they get more attention, etc. Without UGs, we loose the capillarity, and all needs to be done "over the web", where it is harder to relate to each other. And UGs will always be a division, because each will do pretty much the same thing of every other, but with a local focus. This is actually a good thing :-) - the main problem with a "JUG as a project" approach is that usually UGs don't "get it" right away. They will create the project, and not know what to do with it, because projects are focused on code activities, not really on what UGs do (presentations, events, discussions). This is a flaw on the infrastructure used, that most JUGs will try to compensate by having parallel lives on sites like Yahoo, or hosting their own services. Hope those past experiences with JUGs can help structure the OpenSolaris UGs Community. Bruno. > I like Advocates, too. We now have three possible names: Advocates, > Evangelism, Outreach. I see little consensus for a merger, but if > we can solve the structural problem with the UG community that > would go a long way to making that community more effective. > > I say we do it. Other comments? > > Jim > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org Bruno. ______________________________________________________________________ Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe From flash at systemnews.com Fri Apr 6 07:43:21 2007 From: flash at systemnews.com (John J McLaughlin) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 10:43:21 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46165C89.9090400@systemnews.com> Can the opensolaris.org webmaster set up links so that all these links will go to the same page: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ie-osug (works) http://www.opensolaris.org/ie-osug http://opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ie-osug (works) http://opensolaris.org/ie-osug http:/www.ie-osug.opensolaris.org http://ie-osug.opensolaris.org (replacing ie-osug for each of the osug names) The www's are redundant, but many people type www automatically! As for merging the Marketing Community and the User Group Community: , I don't think that makes sense. While there is an overlap, and the two communities work well together, there are not the same. Marketing should be engaged in activities beyond users groups and user group local activities are not marketing. -johnj Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > hey, Tim ... > > > Tim Foster wrote On 04/06/07 16:59,: >> hi Folks, >> >> Sorry for not chiming in till now. >> >> Jim Grisanzio wrote: >> >>> I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the >>> User Group Community: >> >> >> I agree. I've always thought it'd be really nice if these groups >> could work more closely together - indeed, putting up the "talks & >> presentation" pages and the "how you can help opensolaris marketing" >> pages was definitely targeting both communities. >> >> As they put it in the Life Of Brian, "Brothers, we should be >> struggling together!" ;-) >> >> I also like the idea of each ug getting it's own project - if even >> for the nicer URLs it'll generate. One comment about a recent IEOSUG >> poster we did, was that >> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ie-osug/iosug-9 >> doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. > > Oh, come on, that's a perfectly lovely url. :) I agree, though, a > project space will be an excellent solution to offer UGs and clean up > site issues right now. > > >> Advocate seems like a nice name to me, though I think I prefer >> Ambassador[1] - it's a gentler term than Advocate, which like >> Evangelist suggests to me some sort of foaming-at-the-mouth zealot >> (though not nearly as strongly as Evangelist does) >> >> Ambassador would imply that we're a more diplomatic bunch than that. >> > > > Ok, cool, so the list grows: > > * Ambassador Community > * Advocates Community > * Evangelism Community or Evangelization Community > * Outreach Community > > More candidates welcome ... > > > Jim > > > > >> I'm easy about the name though - it's what we do that's important. >> >> >> cheers, >> tim >> >> >> [1] This might confuse some Sun-employees I admit. There are >> programmes inside Sun where sales engineers can become >> "OS Ambassadors", "Network Ambassadors", etc. potential >> confusion there if there's ever an Sun-internal "OpenSolaris >> Ambassador" programme. However, what those guys do, and what >> we do is virtually the same thing: >> http://blogs.sun.com/jimlaurent/entry/what_is_a_sun_os >> > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > -- John J. McLaughlin, Editor-in-Chief/CTO, System News Inc. Publishers of "SunFlash" (http://sunflash.sun.com) "System News for Sun Users" and "System News for Sun iForce Partners" flash at systemnews.com +1 (954) 234 8990 http://sun.systemnews.com LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/e/fpf/228699 From maybird1776 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 4 07:44:07 2007 From: maybird1776 at yahoo.com (ken mays) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 07:44:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [osol-discuss] Audio File Support In-Reply-To: <46127691.6010206@drwetter.org> Message-ID: <362231.23261.qm@web33611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > > > > Case in point, https://shop.fluendo.com/ > who sell currently support for > > WMA/WMV/Mp3 playback for Solaris x86/SPARC - and from what I > understand, > > the compresssion side of the equation will be arriving soon. > > > > Not only will this help first time users in regars to helping them > > resolve support issues relating to multimedia, it'll also provide > a good > > platform in which Solaris solution provides can directly contact > > customers and vice versa, without needing to navigate the > beaucracy that > > is Sun - if this provides free publicitly, hopefully it'll entice more > > vendors to come on board and provide Solaris editions of their > software. > > ------------------------------------- Hello, The Gstreamer framework is well supported on Solaris 8->10 and Solaris Express so the question really goes into the plugins. Proprietary plugins from Fluendo may come at a cost for support, maintenance, and licenses. This doesn't mean you can't have the full GStreamer framework with the "license free" plugins. Also, you have to look closely at what plugins are available for Solaris versus Linux. Check if the WMA 10 codecs are supported. Users may ask why is this needed on Solaris? Well, for those people who are into embedded servers/workstations as well as content creation. Also, cross platform development projects where Solaris is used on desktop/workstations. ~ Ken Mays @ EarthLink, Inc. ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From jabrewer at rochester.rr.com Wed Apr 4 19:42:55 2007 From: jabrewer at rochester.rr.com (John Brewer) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:42:55 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Re: Audio File Support In-Reply-To: References: <12547961.1175735423480.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <4614622F.80009@rochester.rr.com> First entry of yippi Posts: 115 From: USA Registered: 7/27/05 Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: > > On 05/04/07, *John Brewer* > wrote: > > You mentioned only "Sparc platform" in your notes, does this mean > that in the contract negotiation , i86pc (x86) Solaris platform > might be left out, this I believe it needs to be included across > the different architectures if possable. I hope it can be included! > > > > Who are you replying to? if I don't see a quote, I don't know who > you're talking to and in what context. > > For me, I mentioned both x86 and SPARC; but like I said previously, > with the IP arrangement with Microsoft, there should be no reason for > Sun being able to have access to the source code. > > Matthew From Bruno.Souza at Sun.COM Fri Apr 6 08:17:27 2007 From: Bruno.Souza at Sun.COM (Bruno F. Souza) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:17:27 -0300 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <200704060022.17652.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <46158948.4010302@Sun.COM> <200704060022.17652.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> Message-ID: On 06/04/2007, at 04:22, Alan DuBoff wrote: > On Thursday 05 April 2007 04:42 pm, Jim Grisanzio wrote: >> Absolutely true. But there's a little 'but' in there, too. Each user >> group has their own list but I had wanted ug-discuss to be the >> meta list >> so that members of all user groups could potentially talk to each >> other >> easily to share ideas, stories, materials, etc as well. > > But if we form small communities within, we end up being divided, > to some > extent. I believe if we do that we encourage segregation, my 2 yen. Right, and this is good :-) Small communities that share common local interests, that join local developers. This is all positive. You have to realize that when you talk about people, there is already a segregation. People are physically separated. They speak different languages. They are convinced by different arguments. The idea that communities are formed as "one global community" is false. The global community is the merge of small local groups of friends, like people in a University or a Company. Those expand their activities to form local (city-wide?) groups of interested developers that promote activities together (those are the ones we call UGs). Those can work together with other, nearby groups, maybe promoting a larger event that join a few UGs into some common activity (next week we'll have in Brazil several events organized by around 20 JUGs. Other exemples are UGs joining together to work on translations and even open source projects). The fact is: it is easier for a developer to interact with local peers, in the local language. This is what the "global community" will never be able to achieve. By being "global" the community is huge, and overwhelming. Only the most daring, english-fluent, with large experience, can survive or be noticed in it, and them they become "hard to reach, everybody competes for their attention" global "stars". Local communities create local leaders, that act to influence even larger local communities, and that can at some point become global leaders also. The (comparatively) few local developers that can survive and strive on their own on the "global" community will continue to do so, and can act as the link between the local and the global community. But they will also become local stars, making the local developers proud and hopeful that they can also "get there". This is all positive. Thinking in other areas, this is why we have University sport leagues, state leagues, national leagues and worldwide sports leagues. To build up pride and confidence from local to worldwide. By the nature of open source projects, that are done over the network, with centralized accessible code to everyone, we tend to forget that local activities matter. Strong local communities are needed for influencing universities, companies, and also governments, to adopt or invest in a product or technology. The close contact, and also the understand that there is local knowledge, support, services, etc, makes the technology much more real and useful to everyone. It lowers the risk when you know your neighbors are also doing this. By only having the "global" community, there is no local organization that can act as a place to come and discuss one's problems. And we all know that we tend to think that our problems are different then the rest of the world's problems, so, local groups can discuss the "local" problems (even when they are the same) in a much better way. So, no, this is not creating segregation, it is just recognizing that people are already separated by location, customs, language. And build on this strength. The global community can never come to a local government or company, and explain in terms they can understand, why adopting OpenSolaris is a good thing. But we can explain this to one local person, that can then do the same to many others. This is the essence of UGs. Bruno. ______________________________________________________________________ Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe From peter.tribble at gmail.com Fri Apr 6 01:21:39 2007 From: peter.tribble at gmail.com (Peter Tribble) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:21:39 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On 4/6/07, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > So, are you saying that each user group would be a full community like > the other 40 or so communities we have now? If so, then they'd all have > to get OGB approval. No. They would be user groups. Think more like projects, as Stephen mentioned. Only they're not called projects. They're called user groups. And would have a separate listing and a separate entry in the site navigation. But a project is probably a good comparison. So a user group has known leaders, a mailing list if it wants it, a place on the website. No source code, though. > The only reason UGs are all under a single meta-UG community is that > there was no other place to put them on the site. Yes, we need to get away from the "everything is either a community or a project" idea. At which point it may be worth wondering if there are any other structural groupings required. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ ug-discuss mailing list ug-discuss at opensolaris.org This electronic mail (including any attachments) may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to anyone other than its intended recipient(s). Any dissemination or use of this electronic email or its contents (including any attachments) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message (including any attachments) in its entirety. Thank you. From Tim.Foster at Sun.COM Fri Apr 6 00:59:25 2007 From: Tim.Foster at Sun.COM (Tim Foster) Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:59:25 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> hi Folks, Sorry for not chiming in till now. Jim Grisanzio wrote: > I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the User > Group Community: I agree. I've always thought it'd be really nice if these groups could work more closely together - indeed, putting up the "talks & presentation" pages and the "how you can help opensolaris marketing" pages was definitely targeting both communities. As they put it in the Life Of Brian, "Brothers, we should be struggling together!" ;-) I also like the idea of each ug getting it's own project - if even for the nicer URLs it'll generate. One comment about a recent IEOSUG poster we did, was that http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ie-osug/iosug-9 doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. Advocate seems like a nice name to me, though I think I prefer Ambassador[1] - it's a gentler term than Advocate, which like Evangelist suggests to me some sort of foaming-at-the-mouth zealot (though not nearly as strongly as Evangelist does) Ambassador would imply that we're a more diplomatic bunch than that. I'm easy about the name though - it's what we do that's important. cheers, tim [1] This might confuse some Sun-employees I admit. There are programmes inside Sun where sales engineers can become "OS Ambassadors", "Network Ambassadors", etc. potential confusion there if there's ever an Sun-internal "OpenSolaris Ambassador" programme. However, what those guys do, and what we do is virtually the same thing: http://blogs.sun.com/jimlaurent/entry/what_is_a_sun_os -- Tim Foster, Sun Microsystems Inc, Solaris Engineering Ops http://blogs.sun.com/timf _______________________________________________ ug-discuss mailing list ug-discuss at opensolaris.org This electronic mail (including any attachments) may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and/or otherwise protected from disclosure to anyone other than its intended recipient(s). Any dissemination or use of this electronic email or its contents (including any attachments) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message (including any attachments) in its entirety. Thank you. From stevel at sun.com Fri Apr 6 22:25:39 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 22:25:39 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4615CEB0.8030405@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4611CD00.6010603@Sun.COM> <46135569.2050400@Sun.COM> <4615836B.8020007@Sun.COM> <4615CEB0.8030405@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20070407052539.GB955551@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 01:38:08PM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org & ug-discuss at opensolaris.org are merged > into xxx at opensolaris.org under the new xxx community. Each UG keeps its > own list but becomes a project associated with the new xxx community. I bet if you had formed your proposal such that it was for an 'xxx community' from the beginning, you'd have tons of +1's. ;-) > I'm fine to leave the merger idea sit for now but just clean up the UG > community by making them projects. We'll see what other say. I wouldn't mind merging the communities and having the user groups be projects affiliated with/endorsed-by the merged community. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Fri Apr 6 22:26:55 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 22:26:55 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4615CC25.2040104@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> <20070406041616.GD731800@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4615CC25.2040104@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20070407052655.GC955551@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 01:27:17PM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > > Stephen Lau wrote On 04/06/07 13:16,: > >On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 12:40:10PM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > > >> > >>Stephen Hahn wrote On 04/06/07 11:43,: > >> > >>>* Jim Grisanzio [2007-04-05 16:13]: > >>> > >>> > >>>>If we don't put them in a meta-community, though, then we don't really > >>>>have a place for them under the current site structure. I know that > >>>>people want a wiki feature on the site and that's being specified > >>>>right now, so maybe individual UGs can take a wiki page someplace and > >>>>we can remove the UG community altogether. That's certainly an option > >>>>as well. But I agree: the current set up can't scale at all. > >>> > >>> > >>>*cough* Projects *cough* > >>> > >>>My name suggestion (really Simon's from a year ago or so): Advocates. > >>> > >>>- Stephen > >> > >> > >> > >>Oh, cool, I like that. Ok. :) I'm an idiot. > >> > >>And we can do that right now without any merger or need to propose new > >>site changes, and it solves the immediate structural problem with the UG > >>community. UGs can still have their own spaces/lists and still > >>communicate across groups via ug-discuss. Each existing user group > >>becomes a project, and new user groups can go through the same project > >>proposal process currently in place. > >> > >>I like Advocates, too. We now have three possible names: Advocates, > >>Evangelism, Outreach. I see little consensus for a merger, but if we can > >>solve the structural problem with the UG community that would go a long > >>way to making that community more effective. > >> > >>I say we do it. Other comments? > > > > > >I'm actually in favour of the merger, as long as the name changes to one > >of those 3. I like Advocates, but fear it overlaps with the terminology > >of CRT Advocates and RTI Advocates, etc. > > And the notion of making user groups projects? I'm in favour of that too. -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Sun Apr 8 19:59:49 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 11:59:49 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <5146CABB-D38E-486D-BA8E-11693790A35D@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> <5146CABB-D38E-486D-BA8E-11693790A35D@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4619AC25.5060603@Sun.COM> Bruno F. Souza wrote On 04/06/07 23:39,: > Let me describe the way we "solved" that for UG on > java.net, this may be a good starting point for the UG community for > OpenSolaris. > > - there is a JUGs Community: this is where JUG leaders join and discuss > joint efforts. The JUGs Community has a few mailing lists that are > targeted for JUG leaders to discuss things, and hosts very few content > by itself. It is more like a discussion on how each leader can make his > own group more effective by learning from others. Cool. We basically have that structure here as well (or tried to, anyway). ug-discuss is the meta list for cross UG communication, and that's basically been the leaders or the most active people. Although I had originally imagined it as a many-to-many relationship where anyone in any user group can talk to anyone in any other user group, I can see now that it's probably better to focus it as more of a leader-to-leader relationship. > - each JUG can request a project on java.net, that will go "under" the > JUGs Community. The project hosts the JUG mailing lists, files, etc. > Some JUGs even have _software_ projects, that are hosted as sub- > projects of their JUG. One important thing is that in java.net project > requests are not a "community wide" thing. So, JUGs request projects > for the JGs Community, and that gets approved by JUG Community Leaders, > that are elected by the JUG Leaders. So, when a JUG request a project, > it can be approved right away (it is actually put under the incubator, > and when JUGs comply with a few requirements, like creating a web page, > etc they are "graduated" to become a project under the JUGs Community). > It does not need to go trough any "community wide" approval or vote. Interesting. Ok, so we can easily migrate to a system where individual UGs become projects (so they are not just pages/lists within the UG community) as per Stephen's suggestion, but our current project request process goes to the entire OpenSolaris Community on opensolaris-discuss for approvals, not just UG Community's ug-discuss list. However, under Article 7.1 of the OpenSolaris Constitution, Community Groups are responsible for initiating and managing projects: 7.1. Purpose. In order to promote a diversity of activities within the OpenSolaris Community and to provide a means for self-governance within those activities, the OpenSolaris Community is held to be composed of Community Groups that are initiated by the OGB for the purpose of focused management and accomplishment of a given set of activities. Community Groups are, in turn, responsible for initiating and managing projects to accomplish those activities. So, this is where where the User Group Community can assert its leadership. > - The JUGs Community on java.net recognizes that JUGs may be part of > the community even if they don't ever request a project in it. So, the > JUGs listing lists all JUGs that want to be listed, no matter where > they host their members. And the JUGs Community is still the place for > the JUG leaders to discuss, even when their JUGs don't share the > java.net infrastructure. Some JUGs even don't trust Sun enough to > request their members to register in java.net (since java.net is a Sun > infrastructure). But they are part of the JUGs Community nonetheless. We have only run into this issue a couple of times. Not a big deal so far. But we do list groups that are not part of our infrastructure (though I'll have to update that list). We can and should continue this. > - JUGs then have their own java.net space, that this is all their > members really see. This will be the case when we make our groups into projects. In effect, it's true now but implemented awkwardly. > Also more organized JUGs also have their own > (outside java.net) web space. Since JUG members are Java developers > that care about the technology and learning how to use, etc, they can > do this under each JUG, even if they never care for the "JUGs > Community" itself. Most developers don't anyway. > > - This may look like "dividing" the community, but it is actually > empowering the local communities. Not at all. It's just organizing it. > UGs will bring local developers close > together, and support their activities. Developers will also > participate on the larger community by themselves (like joining other > forums and projects), but when they have a place they can come to to > discuss and defend their local interests, it is easier to get their > companies involved, they get more attention, etc. Without UGs, we loose > the capillarity, and all needs to be done "over the web", where it is > harder to relate to each other. And UGs will always be a division, > because each will do pretty much the same thing of every other, but > with a local focus. This is actually a good thing :-) Agree. > - the main problem with a "JUG as a project" approach is that usually > UGs don't "get it" right away. They will create the project, and not > know what to do with it, because projects are focused on code > activities, not really on what UGs do (presentations, events, > discussions). This is a flaw on the infrastructure used, that most JUGs > will try to compensate by having parallel lives on sites like Yahoo, or > hosting their own services. > > Hope those past experiences with JUGs can help structure the > OpenSolaris UGs Community. > > Bruno. Very helpful. Thanks ... Jim From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Sun Apr 8 20:06:11 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:06:11 +0900 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <46158948.4010302@Sun.COM> <200704060022.17652.Alan.DuBoff@Sun.Com> Message-ID: <4619ADA3.2060207@Sun.COM> Bruno F. Souza wrote On 04/07/07 00:17,: > > On 06/04/2007, at 04:22, Alan DuBoff wrote: > >> On Thursday 05 April 2007 04:42 pm, Jim Grisanzio wrote: >> >>> Absolutely true. But there's a little 'but' in there, too. Each user >>> group has their own list but I had wanted ug-discuss to be the meta >>> list >>> so that members of all user groups could potentially talk to each other >>> easily to share ideas, stories, materials, etc as well. >> >> >> But if we form small communities within, we end up being divided, to >> some >> extent. I believe if we do that we encourage segregation, my 2 yen. > > > Right, and this is good :-) > Small communities that share common local interests, that join local > developers. This is all positive. > > You have to realize that when you talk about people, there is already a > segregation. People are physically separated. They speak different > languages. They are convinced by different arguments. The idea that > communities are formed as "one global community" is false. The global > community is the merge of small local groups of friends, like people in > a University or a Company. Those expand their activities to form local > (city-wide?) groups of interested developers that promote activities > together (those are the ones we call UGs). Those can work together with > other, nearby groups, maybe promoting a larger event that join a few > UGs into some common activity (next week we'll have in Brazil several > events organized by around 20 JUGs. Other exemples are UGs joining > together to work on translations and even open source projects). > > The fact is: it is easier for a developer to interact with local peers, > in the local language. This is what the "global community" will never > be able to achieve. By being "global" the community is huge, and > overwhelming. Only the most daring, english-fluent, with large > experience, can survive or be noticed in it, and them they become "hard > to reach, everybody competes for their attention" global "stars". Local > communities create local leaders, that act to influence even larger > local communities, and that can at some point become global leaders > also. The (comparatively) few local developers that can survive and > strive on their own on the "global" community will continue to do so, > and can act as the link between the local and the global community. But > they will also become local stars, making the local developers proud > and hopeful that they can also "get there". This is all positive. > Thinking in other areas, this is why we have University sport leagues, > state leagues, national leagues and worldwide sports leagues. To build > up pride and confidence from local to worldwide. By the nature of open > source projects, that are done over the network, with centralized > accessible code to everyone, we tend to forget that local activities > matter. > > Strong local communities are needed for influencing universities, > companies, and also governments, to adopt or invest in a product or > technology. The close contact, and also the understand that there is > local knowledge, support, services, etc, makes the technology much more > real and useful to everyone. It lowers the risk when you know your > neighbors are also doing this. By only having the "global" community, > there is no local organization that can act as a place to come and > discuss one's problems. And we all know that we tend to think that our > problems are different then the rest of the world's problems, so, local > groups can discuss the "local" problems (even when they are the same) > in a much better way. > > So, no, this is not creating segregation, it is just recognizing that > people are already separated by location, customs, language. And build > on this strength. The global community can never come to a local > government or company, and explain in terms they can understand, why > adopting OpenSolaris is a good thing. But we can explain this to one > local person, that can then do the same to many others. This is the > essence of UGs. > > Bruno. > ______________________________________________________________________ > Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan > http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br > if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe I agree with a lot of your observations and experiences here. I think we (all of us, I mean) are getting closer to a clean-up strategy here. Let's give this a few more days to see if we get any other opinions. Then later this week I'll summarize the comments on the thread and see if we can agree on some basic issues and move ahead on a stepped approach and then address areas of disagreement later or in different ways. Thanks ... Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Sun Apr 8 20:29:41 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:29:41 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <5146CABB-D38E-486D-BA8E-11693790A35D@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> <5146CABB-D38E-486D-BA8E-11693790A35D@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4619B325.6090404@Sun.COM> Bruno F. Souza wrote On 04/06/07 23:39,: > - each JUG can request a project on java.net, that will go "under" the > JUGs Community. The project hosts the JUG mailing lists, files, etc. > Some JUGs even have _software_ projects, that are hosted as sub- > projects of their JUG. One important thing is that in java.net project > requests are not a "community wide" thing. So, JUGs request projects > for the JGs Community, and that gets approved by JUG Community Leaders, > that are elected by the JUG Leaders. So, when a JUG request a project, > it can be approved right away (it is actually put under the incubator, > and when JUGs comply with a few requirements, like creating a web page, > etc they are "graduated" to become a project under the JUGs Community). > It does not need to go trough any "community wide" approval or vote. Question: After the request for a new JUG is made to the JUG Community and then approved, how is the infrastructure set up? Is that a manual process to create the page/list/etc or is it automated via the site software? Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Sun Apr 8 21:05:42 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:05:42 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <46165C89.9090400@systemnews.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <46165C89.9090400@systemnews.com> Message-ID: <4619BB96.7080402@Sun.COM> John J McLaughlin wrote On 04/06/07 23:43,: > Can the opensolaris.org webmaster set up links so that all these links > will go to the same page: Not sure. But I think we have a good idea here of making the UGs into projects, so that would clean up the url problem and make the leadership issues of each UG clear. Also, I'd rather see us get a clean standard implementation first than putting in four or five re-directs for each of the 50 or so user groups. > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ie-osug (works) > > http://www.opensolaris.org/ie-osug > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ie-osug (works) > http://opensolaris.org/ie-osug > http:/www.ie-osug.opensolaris.org > http://ie-osug.opensolaris.org > > (replacing ie-osug for each of the osug names) > > The www's are redundant, but many people type www automatically! > > As for merging the Marketing Community and the User Group Community: , I > don't think that makes sense. While there is an overlap, and the two > communities work well together, there are not the same. > Marketing should be engaged in activities beyond users groups and user > group local activities are not marketing. Marketing and UGs are not the same, you are right. But they overlap in many areas, and they are directly related since one community grew from the other and they still share some resources. All that is easy to document. However, the idea being discussed is to merge them into something /greater/ than they are now. UG activities would continue and marketing activities would continue. But we'd build more components into the mix and establish a more diverse and stronger (to be named) community and one with more influence under the new OpenSolaris Constitution. Regardless. This merger issue can wait. The discussion is valuable for us to address the immediate structural issues of the UG Community. That's most important in the short term. Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris > > Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >> >> hey, Tim ... >> >> >> Tim Foster wrote On 04/06/07 16:59,: >> >>> hi Folks, >>> >>> Sorry for not chiming in till now. >>> >>> Jim Grisanzio wrote: >>> >>>> I'd like to propose that we merge the Marketing Community and the >>>> User Group Community: >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree. I've always thought it'd be really nice if these groups >>> could work more closely together - indeed, putting up the "talks & >>> presentation" pages and the "how you can help opensolaris marketing" >>> pages was definitely targeting both communities. >>> >>> As they put it in the Life Of Brian, "Brothers, we should be >>> struggling together!" ;-) >>> >>> I also like the idea of each ug getting it's own project - if even >>> for the nicer URLs it'll generate. One comment about a recent IEOSUG >>> poster we did, was that >>> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ie-osug/iosug-9 >>> doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. >> >> >> Oh, come on, that's a perfectly lovely url. :) I agree, though, a >> project space will be an excellent solution to offer UGs and clean up >> site issues right now. >> >> >>> Advocate seems like a nice name to me, though I think I prefer >>> Ambassador[1] - it's a gentler term than Advocate, which like >>> Evangelist suggests to me some sort of foaming-at-the-mouth zealot >>> (though not nearly as strongly as Evangelist does) >>> >>> Ambassador would imply that we're a more diplomatic bunch than that. >>> >> >> >> Ok, cool, so the list grows: >> >> * Ambassador Community >> * Advocates Community >> * Evangelism Community or Evangelization Community >> * Outreach Community >> >> More candidates welcome ... >> >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> >>> I'm easy about the name though - it's what we do that's important. >>> >>> >>> cheers, >>> tim >>> >>> >>> [1] This might confuse some Sun-employees I admit. There are >>> programmes inside Sun where sales engineers can become >>> "OS Ambassadors", "Network Ambassadors", etc. potential >>> confusion there if there's ever an Sun-internal "OpenSolaris >>> Ambassador" programme. However, what those guys do, and what >>> we do is virtually the same thing: >>> http://blogs.sun.com/jimlaurent/entry/what_is_a_sun_os >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org >> > > -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From benr at cuddletech.com Mon Apr 9 01:16:32 2007 From: benr at cuddletech.com (Ben Rockwood) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 01:16:32 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <20070407052655.GC955551@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> <20070406041616.GD731800@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4615CC25.2040104@Sun.COM> <20070407052655.GC955551@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4619F660.1000103@cuddletech.com> Stephen Lau wrote: > On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 01:27:17PM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >>>> I say we do it. Other comments? >>>> >>> I'm actually in favour of the merger, as long as the name changes to one >>> of those 3. I like Advocates, but fear it overlaps with the terminology >>> of CRT Advocates and RTI Advocates, etc. >>> >> And the notion of making user groups projects? >> > > I'm in favour of that too. > I'm in favor of a merger, although it seems more appropriate that UG be folded into Marketing and then perhaps Marketing takes up a kinder gentler name, but "merger" fits the bill. I'd personally oppose "Advocates". Partly because we're describing an act, thus the plural noun "Advocates" seems inappropriate... instead, I _greatly_ prefer Evangelism. To my mind it better fits the marketing community and UG goals and actions more clearly. For instance, I'm a Core Contrib of the "Marketing Community"... but I've never "Marketed" OpenSolaris nor have I advocated it (meaning; to represent, support or promote on behalf of another), I've evangelized it. benr. From Bruno.Souza at Sun.COM Mon Apr 9 05:06:29 2007 From: Bruno.Souza at Sun.COM (Bruno F. Souza) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:06:29 -0300 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4619B325.6090404@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> <5146CABB-D38E-486D-BA8E-11693790A35D@Sun.COM> <4619B325.6090404@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <44365944-F1D4-4A64-9140-E763FD1745E8@Sun.COM> On 09/04/2007, at 00:29, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > Bruno F. Souza wrote On 04/06/07 23:39,: > >> - each JUG can request a project on java.net, that will go >> "under" the JUGs Community. The project hosts the JUG mailing >> lists, files, etc. Some JUGs even have _software_ projects, that >> are hosted as sub- projects of their JUG. One important thing is >> that in java.net project requests are not a "community wide" >> thing. So, JUGs request projects for the JGs Community, and that >> gets approved by JUG Community Leaders, that are elected by the >> JUG Leaders. So, when a JUG request a project, it can be approved >> right away (it is actually put under the incubator, and when JUGs >> comply with a few requirements, like creating a web page, etc >> they are "graduated" to become a project under the JUGs >> Community). It does not need to go trough any "community wide" >> approval or vote. > > > Question: After the request for a new JUG is made to the JUG > Community and then approved, how is the infrastructure set up? Is > that a manual process to create the page/list/etc or is it > automated via the site software? > Well, java.net runs on Collabnet software. So, when someone comes to the site, and request a project, the project is created and then put on a approval list. The project is already up and running by that time, but can only be accessed by the project owner (the person that requested it). Each community in java.net have the responsibility to approve/reject a project, and each community have their own rules for that (for example, the Games community requires a vote and that the project is supported by at lest 2 other already existing projects. The JUGs Community on the other hand, only requires that the request is really for a JUG, not for an open source project for example). Once approved, the project is then visible to anyone, and open to others to join it. So, the shoer answer to your question is: it is automated. Now, the one thing that is kind of manual is the project listing on the site: someone at java.net manually updates a database with all projects, that feeds both the java.net full project listing, as well as each community's project listing. Bruno. > Jim > -- > Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org Bruno. ______________________________________________________________________ Bruno Peres Ferreira de Souza Brazil's JavaMan http://www.javaman.com.br bruno at javaman.com.br if I fail, if I succeed, at least I live as I believe From webmink at sun.com Mon Apr 9 05:30:48 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:30:48 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4619F660.1000103@cuddletech.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> <20070406041616.GD731800@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4615CC25.2040104@Sun.COM> <20070407052655.GC955551@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4619F660.1000103@cuddletech.com> Message-ID: On Apr 9, 2007, at 09:16, Ben Rockwood wrote: > I'm in favor of a merger, although it seems more appropriate that > UG be folded into Marketing and then perhaps Marketing takes up a > kinder gentler name, but "merger" fits the bill. I agree with this too. I especially like the idea of user groups being projects within a community of advocates. A restructuring like this is certainly needed. I'd suggest that rather than "folding user groups into marketing and then renaming" we just call it a root-and- branch restructure, with a destination something like: Advocates Community: - advocacy at opensolaris.org mailing list - user-help-english at opensolaris.org mailing list - user-help-chinese at opensolaris.org mailing list (probably with a better name) - ... - Writers project - Events project - Promotional Activities Project - User Group Co-ordinators Project - Location A User Group Project - Location B User Group Project - ... > I'd personally oppose "Advocates". Partly because we're describing > an act, thus the plural noun "Advocates" seems inappropriate... > instead, I _greatly_ prefer Evangelism. To my mind it better fits > the marketing community and UG goals and actions more clearly. For > instance, I'm a Core Contrib of the "Marketing Community"... but > I've never "Marketed" OpenSolaris nor have I advocated it (meaning; > to represent, support or promote on behalf of another), I've > evangelized it. I cant't agree with this. I used the job title of "Evangelist" for many years (I pretty much introduced it into IBM after seeing how well it worked for Guy Kawasaki) and when it was novel and needed explanation it was an effective conversation-starter. I stopped using it as a job title a few years ago when it became clear that it was too closely associated with "tele-evangelists" and with religious fundamentalism (and, again, been there, done that). If we are to be a global community we need a name for this role that has positive connotations. That's why I advocated "advocates" and still think it's the best term to describe a group of people promoting OpenSolaris. In my handy pop-up dictionary, an "advocate" is "a person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy" (and this seems to be reflected in most definitions[1]). I believe that perfectly describes those who promote the use of OpenSolaris-based technologies including those who gather like-minded friends and colleagues into "user groups". S. [1] http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Advocate From jay at meangrape.com Mon Apr 9 05:51:31 2007 From: jay at meangrape.com (Jay Edwards) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 07:51:31 -0500 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> <20070406041616.GD731800@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4615CC25.2040104@Sun.COM> <20070407052655.GC955551@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4619F660.1000103@cuddletech.com> Message-ID: <81a8869b0704090551x22070972nb4ed28cdc52a7a7f@mail.gmail.com> On 4/9/07, Simon Phipps wrote: > > > On Apr 9, 2007, at 09:16, Ben Rockwood wrote: > > I'd personally oppose "Advocates". Partly because we're describing > > an act, thus the plural noun "Advocates" seems inappropriate... > > instead, I _greatly_ prefer Evangelism. To my mind it better fits > > the marketing community and UG goals and actions more clearly. For > > instance, I'm a Core Contrib of the "Marketing Community"... but > > I've never "Marketed" OpenSolaris nor have I advocated it (meaning; > > to represent, support or promote on behalf of another), I've > > evangelized it. > > I cant't agree with this. I used the job title of "Evangelist" for > many years (I pretty much introduced it into IBM after seeing how > well it worked for Guy Kawasaki) and when it was novel and needed > explanation it was an effective conversation-starter. I stopped using > it as a job title a few years ago when it became clear that it was > too closely associated with "tele-evangelists" and with religious > fundamentalism (and, again, been there, done that). If we are to be a > global community we need a name for this role that has positive > connotations. That's why I advocated "advocates" and still think it's > the best term to describe a group of people promoting OpenSolaris. Yes, yes, and it reminds me of lawyers. This is just bikeshed painting. Take a show of hands and move on. Jay. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Mon Apr 9 08:07:14 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:07:14 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [website-discuss] Updates of the monthly highlights pages In-Reply-To: <25820753.1175668248702.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <25820753.1175668248702.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <461A56A2.6030503@sun.com> Hi Ken, I think we should either eliminate the highlights page or have different information or something. It is far too out of date. But perhaps we should hold off on content changes until the discussion on merging communities comes to a close. Sara Ken Tomlinson wrote: > I noticed the monthly highlights pages are nearly a year behind: > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/highlights/ > > I would be cool to have the latest months added. > For the links themselves, we should always include both month and year using > a conventional naming scheme. > > Finally, perhaps these no long need to include the usage statistics but could > simply contain pointers to what's available here: > http://opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/metrics/ > > > This message posted from opensolaris.org > _______________________________________________ > website-discuss mailing list > website-discuss at opensolaris.org > From shiva.madras at gmail.com Mon Apr 9 09:43:36 2007 From: shiva.madras at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 22:13:36 +0530 Subject: [osol-mktg] Coimbatore Open Solaris User Group. Message-ID: <626a25740704090943g109e8e84l4a0634317193a56@mail.gmail.com> Hello This is a request from Coimbatore Open Solaris User Group in India which is just being set up. http://opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/coi-osug/ As far as I know most presentations available don't get down to very basic introductions. Is there an introductory presentation PDF or video that is intended for an audience such as a group of students in a college in a small town who might have heard about Sun Microsystems but are not so familiar with Sun Solaris and may not even be aware of Open Solaris ? The idea is to see if a presentation along the following lines exist or we will try and create one: It would be appropirate and necessary for Open Solaris User Groups to come up with a presentation along these lines. Internet Today > Computers in Internet > Network is the Computer > Computers Today > Big ( network ) computers > standalones and clients > Sparc, X86 etc.. Sun Microsystems in hardware O/S Platforms Today > Unix, Windows > Solaris as the most advanced Unix flavor Solaris Today > The most advanced operating System in the Planet Open Source Today > Proprietory source and Open Source > Proprietory O/S brands and Open source brands > Proprietory Applications and Open Source Applications Open Solaris Today > History of Open Solaris > Size of Open Solaris ( user groups, projects ) Open Solaris User Groups Today > Groups worldwide > Key Projects Worldwide > Open Solaris In India > User Groups in India > Activities of Open Solaris User Groups In India Participation Today > Open Solaris User Groups as an opportunity for participative, contributory learning > Get connected, Get exposed, Contribute, learn and get noticed. Sivasubramanian. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oncoursellc at bellsouth.net Mon Apr 9 20:59:31 2007 From: oncoursellc at bellsouth.net (Cheryline) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:59:31 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <20070406041616.GD731800@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20014729.1176177601496.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> How to Start an Online Travel Agency working from home Have you noticed that there are not many store front travel agencies these days? I guess it may have had a lot to do with the fact that many people are using their computer to book their own flights online. Also, after the disaster in New York on September 11th, people were scared to travel and a few years ago, a couple airlines lay off their workers and caused a slow period in the travel industry. However, I think the main reason is the comfort of booking a flight from your own personal computer that fascinates the consumer to a do-it-yourself attitude. In lieu of this fact, it is apparent that an online travel agency is a good idea for a business opportunity to assist these consumers with trip planning and other customer service issues that they may still need. There are two types of home travel businesses: ? Referral travel agencies ? Booking and selling agencies A Referral travel agent is the easier of the two because all it requires is a word of mouth advertising to guide the customer to the online portal where they can book their flight. It is also a relationship business because the referrals in most cases come from family, friends and associates first. The referring travel agent is compensated with a paid commission, which is decided in advance by the agency to which the referral will go. It is easy to be an online travel agent because it only requires handing out business cards, flyers and maybe placing online ads. There is no immediate contact with the customer unless it is someone who needs additional questions answered. This can be done on a part time basis until the full time income is replaced, then anyone make the transition to a full time business. The booking and selling agencies fall into a category of only one travel agency. Since we have already confirmed that these agencies are not so popular anymore, we will only concentrate on the referring travel agent. A referring travel agent does not need to know too much in-depth information about the specific travel details. All they do is to direct people to the website where they book their own flights and get help directly from the airline. In the case of the booking and selling agencies, they have to do the hard work of finding out all the information for the customer, which can be quite time consuming. If you are considering the opportunity that is open to being a referral travel agent, be sure to find out if the company is stable, if they provide adequate customer service, what the compensation is, can you work full time or part time, do you need any special training, and is it something I can recommend to others with confidence. One of the perks of being a referring travel agent is that you can work from home, you work on your own time, you get free trips called FAM trips, you get to travel first class, you get discounted air fares and priority baggage claim. Once you have decided to pursue a travel business opportunity, make sure you treat this as a real business. Get a business name, if possible and a tax identification number. Keep good records of income and expenses because this business is tax deductible. Your vacation trips can be tax write offs if you use it also to refer travel to others. I would also suggest that you choose a travel category and learn as much as you can about it and specialize in that category. An example is cruises or honeymoon packages. With cruises, you can target the baby boomers who love to take cruises and for the honeymoon packages, you target anyone you know who is thinking or planning to get married. Let your enthusiasm about this travel business be infectious to everyone you meet. Make sure you take some vacations that you can talk about or suggest to your clients. Educate yourself and take this business seriously. Cheryline Lawson is the owner of www.booklowertravel.com and writes articles and books on the subject. Ms. Lawson is also a referring travel agent and entrepreneur who works from home. Visit www.booklowertravel.com today to get more information on the topic of how to become a referring travel agent. This message posted from opensolaris.org From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Tue Apr 10 08:48:15 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:48:15 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] [Fwd: .org Pavilion at LinuxWorld SF August 2007] Message-ID: <461BB1BF.2070007@sun.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: .org Pavilion Call for Papers Now Open Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:41:11 -0700 From: LinuxWorld Reply-To: linuxworldexpo at idg.com To: Alan Coopersmith LinuxWorld Conference & Expo http://emessaging.vertexcommunication.com/ct/ct.php?t=2429170&c=1013584785&m=m&type=3&h=2E0C08A3D8D0D17E67D085EAFA0BF68B August 6 - 9, 2007 Moscone Center San Francisco, CA Dear Alan, Interested in LinuxWorld's .org Pavilion? Fill out the Application Form! LinuxWorld Conference & Expo is looking for exhibitors for the .org Pavilion, our free-of-charge exhibit area for free software and open source projects. We're looking for projects that produce great software and can host an informative, helpful booth for our attendees. This year, we will be hosting an "un-conference" theater area adjacent to the pavilion. If you would like a larger venue for works in progress, Q & A sessions, demonstrations, and media, it's there for you. Projects use LinuxWorld Conference & Expo for many reasons: to answer questions from possible new users, to distribute copies of software, to solicit donations, and to sell project merchandise. If you have participated in the .org Pavilion at previous shows, you still need to re-apply for it this time. To submit for the .org Pavilion, please click on the link below. http://emessaging.vertexcommunication.com/ct/ct.php?t=2429171&c=1013584785&m=m&type=3&h=2E0C08A3D8D0D17E67D085EAFA0BF68B Don't forget! Birds-of-a-Feather sessions are still available. Click on the link below to submit. http://emessaging.vertexcommunication.com/ct/ct.php?t=2429172&c=1013584785&m=m&type=3&h=2E0C08A3D8D0D17E67D085EAFA0BF68B Please contact Alison McCormack with any questions (508) 988-7880. This message was intended for alan.coopersmith at sun.com We want to provide you with the most relevant information. Click below to do the following: * Change your email preferences * Update your information * Opt-out from our email programs http://emessaging.vertexcommunication.com/phase2/survey1/survey.htm?CID=wjvfou&action=update&eemail=alan.coopersmith at sun.com&_mh=ff0ebc1ff53de2c2806b889c75ee15e5 IDG World Expo, 3 Speen Street, Framingham, MA 01701 800-657-1474 ----Powered by Vertex Communications---- http://www.vertexcommunication.com/contact.htm From Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM Wed Apr 11 08:25:57 2007 From: Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM (Laura Ramsey) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:25:57 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] JavaOne Pod Duty Schedule... Message-ID: <461CFE05.6060307@sun.com> Hi Folks! Just checking in on this for Sara as she's out of the country. The OpenSolaris pod duty roster is looking alittle thin--and final schedules are due on Friday, 4/13. If you can make some time to be at JavaOne, I hope you guys can help her out. Right now she's stuck! http://fenway.east/j12007/page1.jsp Sign up...get your free Sun shirt today! cheers, LKR From Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM Wed Apr 11 08:27:35 2007 From: Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM (Laura Ramsey) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:27:35 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] JavaOne Pod Duty Schedule... Message-ID: <461CFE67.3070201@sun.com> Hi Folks! Just checking in on this for Sara as she's out of the country. The OpenSolaris pod duty roster is looking alittle thin--and final schedules are due on Friday, 4/13. If you can make some time to be at JavaOne, I hope you guys can help her out. Right now she's stuck! http://fenway.east/j12007/page1.jsp Note: this is a Sun internal schedule site...if you cannot access, let me know and I'll bootstrap it for ya. Sign up...get your free Sun shirt today! cheers, LKR From rich.teer at rite-group.com Wed Apr 11 08:28:19 2007 From: rich.teer at rite-group.com (Rich Teer) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] JavaOne Pod Duty Schedule... In-Reply-To: <461CFE05.6060307@sun.com> References: <461CFE05.6060307@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2007, Laura Ramsey wrote: > Hi Folks! > > Just checking in on this for Sara as she's out of the country. The > OpenSolaris pod duty roster is looking alittle thin--and final schedules are > due on Friday, 4/13. > > If you can make some time to be at JavaOne, I hope you guys can help her out. > Right now she's stuck! Would love to ehlp out, but I'll bein the UK during JavaOne... > Sign up...get your free Sun shirt today! Can I just get the free T shirt? :-) -- Rich Teer, SCSA, SCNA, SCSECA, OGB member CEO, My Online Home Inventory Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URLs: http://www.rite-group.com/rich http://www.myonlinehomeinventory.com From michelle.olson at sun.com Wed Apr 11 13:14:28 2007 From: michelle.olson at sun.com (michelle olson) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:14:28 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] JavaOne Pod Duty Schedule... In-Reply-To: <461CFE05.6060307@sun.com> References: <461CFE05.6060307@sun.com> Message-ID: <461D41A4.8030709@sun.com> Hi Laura, I volunteered in a separate mail for booth duty on Weds. I just updated the page to reflect this. I could probably help setup on Monday too if you need. But folks will want to and need to talk to engineers Tues-Thurs, so we should really get some lined up. Come on folks! We have three whole days with no one listed to be at the booth. Thanks, Michelle Laura Ramsey wrote: > > Hi Folks! > > Just checking in on this for Sara as she's out of the country. The > OpenSolaris pod duty roster is looking alittle thin--and final > schedules are due on Friday, 4/13. > > If you can make some time to be at JavaOne, I hope you guys can help > her out. Right now she's stuck! > > http://fenway.east/j12007/page1.jsp > > > Sign up...get your free Sun shirt today! > > cheers, > LKR > > > > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From benr at cuddletech.com Thu Apr 12 00:57:21 2007 From: benr at cuddletech.com (Ben Rockwood) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:57:21 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: JavaOne Pod Duty Schedule... In-Reply-To: <461CFE05.6060307@sun.com> References: <461CFE05.6060307@sun.com> Message-ID: <461DE661.90208@cuddletech.com> Laura Ramsey wrote: > > Hi Folks! > > Just checking in on this for Sara as she's out of the country. The > OpenSolaris pod duty roster is looking alittle thin--and final > schedules are due on Friday, 4/13. > > If you can make some time to be at JavaOne, I hope you guys can help > her out. Right now she's stuck! > > http://fenway.east/j12007/page1.jsp > > > Sign up...get your free Sun shirt today! I can't access the roaster, but I'm planning to be there for the entire show. benr. From benr at cuddletech.com Thu Apr 12 01:09:59 2007 From: benr at cuddletech.com (Ben Rockwood) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 01:09:59 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] MySQL Conf & Expo: Santa Clara Message-ID: <461DE957.2060107@cuddletech.com> The MySQL Conf & Expo is approaching shortly in Santa Clara running Apr 23-26. The exhibit hall will only be open Apr 24th and 25th. Sun's a sponsor and I know has a booth. I'm hoping to muscle in again. Last year I was on hand with my try-and-buy T2000 and my OpenSolaris dev workstation, the reaction was very positive. There was lots of discussion with Red Hat, MySQL and folks at the show. This year I don't have any unallocated Sun gear to bring to the show but I'm hoping to highlight OpenSolaris's cutting edge features that really compliment MySQL environments well including DTrace, Resource Controls, Zones, ZFS data integrity and data protection, and how those can play seamlessly with Sun hardware solutions and other F/OSS software. Things are drawing near so I need to get the skinny on whats up for the show so far. I need to get hooked up with an exhibitor badge and sync with who ever Sun already has lined up. Sara or Teresa, can you point me at the lead for this event? benr. From Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM Thu Apr 12 04:41:54 2007 From: Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM (Laura Ramsey) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:41:54 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] MySQL Conf & Expo: Santa Clara In-Reply-To: <461DE957.2060107@cuddletech.com> References: <461DE957.2060107@cuddletech.com> Message-ID: <461E1B02.3050306@sun.com> Sara and Teresa are out this week...so I made the intro for you Ben. See the email where I introduce you to Rebecca Hansen, Derby/PostgreSQL communitites. Cheers, LKR Ben Rockwood wrote: > The MySQL Conf & Expo is approaching shortly in Santa Clara running > Apr 23-26. The exhibit hall will only be open Apr 24th and 25th. > > Sun's a sponsor and I know has a booth. I'm hoping to muscle in > again. Last year I was on hand with my try-and-buy T2000 and my > OpenSolaris dev workstation, the reaction was very positive. There > was lots of discussion with Red Hat, MySQL and folks at the show. > This year I don't have any unallocated Sun gear to bring to the show > but I'm hoping to highlight OpenSolaris's cutting edge features that > really compliment MySQL environments well including DTrace, Resource > Controls, Zones, ZFS data integrity and data protection, and how > those can play seamlessly with Sun hardware solutions and other F/OSS > software. > > Things are drawing near so I need to get the skinny on whats up for > the show so far. I need to get hooked up with an exhibitor badge and > sync with who ever Sun already has lined up. > > Sara or Teresa, can you point me at the lead for this event? > > benr. > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Thu Apr 12 04:59:57 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 06:59:57 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] MySQL Conf & Expo: Santa Clara In-Reply-To: <461E1B02.3050306@sun.com> References: <461DE957.2060107@cuddletech.com> <461E1B02.3050306@sun.com> Message-ID: <461E1F3D.7050202@sun.com> It's Steve Quan. He's sent you an email Ben and is expecting you. Sara Laura Ramsey wrote: > > Sara and Teresa are out this week...so I made the intro for you Ben. > > See the email where I introduce you to Rebecca Hansen, > Derby/PostgreSQL communitites. > > Cheers, > LKR > > > Ben Rockwood wrote: > >> The MySQL Conf & Expo is approaching shortly in Santa Clara running >> Apr 23-26. The exhibit hall will only be open Apr 24th and 25th. >> >> Sun's a sponsor and I know has a booth. I'm hoping to muscle in >> again. Last year I was on hand with my try-and-buy T2000 and my >> OpenSolaris dev workstation, the reaction was very positive. There >> was lots of discussion with Red Hat, MySQL and folks at the show. >> This year I don't have any unallocated Sun gear to bring to the show >> but I'm hoping to highlight OpenSolaris's cutting edge features that >> really compliment MySQL environments well including DTrace, Resource >> Controls, Zones, ZFS data integrity and data protection, and how >> those can play seamlessly with Sun hardware solutions and other F/OSS >> software. >> >> Things are drawing near so I need to get the skinny on whats up for >> the show so far. I need to get hooked up with an exhibitor badge and >> sync with who ever Sun already has lined up. >> >> Sara or Teresa, can you point me at the lead for this event? >> >> benr. >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM Thu Apr 12 06:24:48 2007 From: Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM (Laura Ramsey) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:24:48 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: JavaOne Pod Duty Schedule... In-Reply-To: <461DE661.90208@cuddletech.com> References: <461CFE05.6060307@sun.com> <461DE661.90208@cuddletech.com> Message-ID: <461E3320.9010302@sun.com> Hi Folks: We have these times open for scheduling: Tuesday: 11:15-1:15 1:00-3:00 2:45-4:45 4:30-6:30 6:15-8:30 (RECEPTION--there's food and drink on this shift!!) Wednesday: Booked! Thanks Mike Kupfer and Michelle Olson! Thursday: 11:15-1:15 1:00-3:00 2:45-4:45 Ben: Let me know which times and I'll plug you in! LKR Ben Rockwood wrote: > Laura Ramsey wrote: > >> >> Hi Folks! >> >> Just checking in on this for Sara as she's out of the country. The >> OpenSolaris pod duty roster is looking alittle thin--and final >> schedules are due on Friday, 4/13. >> >> If you can make some time to be at JavaOne, I hope you guys can help >> her out. Right now she's stuck! >> >> http://fenway.east/j12007/page1.jsp >> >> >> Sign up...get your free Sun shirt today! > > > I can't access the roaster, but I'm planning to be there for the > entire show. > > benr. From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Apr 12 18:30:09 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:30:09 +0900 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> <20070406041616.GD731800@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4615CC25.2040104@Sun.COM> <20070407052655.GC955551@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4619F660.1000103@cuddletech.com> Message-ID: <461EDD21.2030706@Sun.COM> Simon Phipps wrote On 04/09/07 21:30,: > > On Apr 9, 2007, at 09:16, Ben Rockwood wrote: > >> I'm in favor of a merger, although it seems more appropriate that UG >> be folded into Marketing and then perhaps Marketing takes up a kinder >> gentler name, but "merger" fits the bill. > > > I agree with this too. I especially like the idea of user groups being > projects within a community of advocates. A restructuring like this is > certainly needed. I'd suggest that rather than "folding user groups > into marketing and then renaming" we just call it a root-and- branch > restructure, with a destination something like: > > Advocates Community: > - advocacy at opensolaris.org mailing list > - user-help-english at opensolaris.org mailing list > - user-help-chinese at opensolaris.org mailing list (probably with a > better name) > - ... > - Writers project > - Events project > - Promotional Activities Project > - User Group Co-ordinators Project > - Location A User Group Project > - Location B User Group Project > - ... > > >> I'd personally oppose "Advocates". Partly because we're describing >> an act, thus the plural noun "Advocates" seems inappropriate... >> instead, I _greatly_ prefer Evangelism. To my mind it better fits >> the marketing community and UG goals and actions more clearly. For >> instance, I'm a Core Contrib of the "Marketing Community"... but I've >> never "Marketed" OpenSolaris nor have I advocated it (meaning; to >> represent, support or promote on behalf of another), I've evangelized >> it. > > > I cant't agree with this. I used the job title of "Evangelist" for many > years (I pretty much introduced it into IBM after seeing how well it > worked for Guy Kawasaki) and when it was novel and needed explanation > it was an effective conversation-starter. I stopped using it as a job > title a few years ago when it became clear that it was too closely > associated with "tele-evangelists" and with religious fundamentalism > (and, again, been there, done that). If we are to be a global community > we need a name for this role that has positive connotations. That's why > I advocated "advocates" and still think it's the best term to describe > a group of people promoting OpenSolaris. > > In my handy pop-up dictionary, an "advocate" is "a person who publicly > supports or recommends a particular cause or policy" (and this seems to > be reflected in most definitions[1]). I believe that perfectly > describes those who promote the use of OpenSolaris-based technologies > including those who gather like-minded friends and colleagues into > "user groups". > > S. > > > [1] http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Advocate I'm liking the word Advocates more and more in this context. I'm looking into what's involved from a site perspective for us to do all this. We'll have to engage the OGB as well. But I think we have a good start and some good ideas. Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Apr 12 18:34:20 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:34:20 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4619F660.1000103@cuddletech.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <461582A0.1080900@Sun.COM> <20070406024325.GA29241@eng.sun.com> <4615C11A.8040005@Sun.COM> <20070406041616.GD731800@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4615CC25.2040104@Sun.COM> <20070407052655.GC955551@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4619F660.1000103@cuddletech.com> Message-ID: <461EDE1C.1040405@Sun.COM> Ben Rockwood wrote On 04/09/07 17:16,: > Stephen Lau wrote: > >> On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 01:27:17PM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: >> >> >>>>> I say we do it. Other comments? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I'm actually in favour of the merger, as long as the name changes to >>>> one >>>> of those 3. I like Advocates, but fear it overlaps with the >>>> terminology >>>> of CRT Advocates and RTI Advocates, etc. >>> >>> And the notion of making user groups projects? >>> >> >> >> I'm in favour of that too. >> > > > I'm in favor of a merger, although it seems more appropriate that UG be > folded into Marketing and then perhaps Marketing takes up a kinder > gentler name, but "merger" fits the bill. Yah, perhaps "merger" isn't the proper term here. All I mean is that the two communities will become one but with more features and activities and hopefully more focus, that's all. Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Tue Apr 17 17:39:15 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:39:15 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] QLogic Press Release on OpenSolaris Storage Community Message-ID: <462568B3.5040102@sun.com> http://qlogic.com/news-events/details/releases_details.asp?id=6892 From Young.J.Song at Sun.COM Thu Apr 19 11:55:52 2007 From: Young.J.Song at Sun.COM (Young Joo Pintaske) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:55:52 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: JavaOne Pod Duty Schedule... In-Reply-To: <461EAC82.4000201@sun.com> References: <461CFE05.6060307@sun.com> <461DE661.90208@cuddletech.com> <461E3320.9010302@sun.com> <461E3A2D.2010805@sun.com> <461E5EAB.4050107@sun.com> <461EA16D.7060706@sun.com> <461EAC82.4000201@sun.com> Message-ID: <4627BB38.2060302@sun.com> Hi, Sorry, but it looks like I can't volunteer on Tuesday any more. I had signed up for a 1-3pm slot. I'm required to attend an all day training that day and was notified just last night. Volunteering on Monday looks okay. Young Young Joo Pintaske ? ?: > OK, I just signed up myself for Monday and a slot on Tuesday. > > > Sara Dornsife ? ?: >> Young, >> We will need you at the demo station for OpenSolaris at CommunityOne. >> We don't yet know the schedule for that though. Stay tuned >> Sara >> >> Young Joo Pintaske wrote: >>> So I plan to be there most of Monday (is there specific duty for >>> me?) I can volunteer Tuesday afternoon if needed, say after 2:45. >>> >>> Young From Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM Thu Apr 19 13:20:56 2007 From: Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM (Laura.Ramsey at Sun.COM) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:20:56 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: JavaOne Pod Duty Schedule... In-Reply-To: <4627BB38.2060302@sun.com> References: <461CFE05.6060307@sun.com> <461DE661.90208@cuddletech.com> <461E3320.9010302@sun.com> <461E3A2D.2010805@sun.com> <461E5EAB.4050107@sun.com> <461EA16D.7060706@sun.com> <461EAC82.4000201@sun.com> <4627BB38.2060302@sun.com> Message-ID: <4627CF28.1090303@Sun.COM> Thanks for the heads up Young. Do we have a volunteer in the community to replace Young? LKR LKR Young Joo Pintaske wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry, but it looks like I can't volunteer on Tuesday any more. I had > signed up for a 1-3pm slot. I'm required to attend an all day training > that day and was notified just last night. Volunteering on Monday > looks okay. > > > Young > > > > > Young Joo Pintaske ? ?: > >> OK, I just signed up myself for Monday and a slot on Tuesday. >> >> >> Sara Dornsife ? ?: >> >>> Young, >>> We will need you at the demo station for OpenSolaris at >>> CommunityOne. We don't yet know the schedule for that though. Stay >>> tuned >>> Sara >>> >>> Young Joo Pintaske wrote: >>> >>>> So I plan to be there most of Monday (is there specific duty for >>>> me?) I can volunteer Tuesday afternoon if needed, say after 2:45. >>>> >>>> Young >>> From stevel at sun.com Mon Apr 23 11:07:15 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:07:15 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution Message-ID: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> Question... if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris were created with only the open sourced components (I'm thinking ON+X+JDS), it could be freely redistributable via 3rd parties, mirrours, and BitTorrents, right? (since the OBL that covers the closed-bins allows free redistribution) I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, whatever the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. Bonus points if we could make it fit onto 1 install CD media. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Mon Apr 23 15:36:28 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:36:28 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> Message-ID: <462D34EC.6090100@sun.com> Steve, I don't see a downside.... Sara Stephen Lau wrote: > Question... > > if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris were > created with only the open sourced components (I'm thinking ON+X+JDS), > it could be freely redistributable via 3rd parties, mirrours, and > BitTorrents, right? (since the OBL that covers the closed-bins allows > free redistribution) > > I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, > whatever the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. > > Bonus points if we could make it fit onto 1 install CD media. > > cheers, > steve From Tim.Foster at Sun.COM Tue Apr 24 02:16:39 2007 From: Tim.Foster at Sun.COM (Tim Foster) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:16:39 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> Message-ID: <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> Hey All, - here goes! On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 11:07 -0700, Stephen Lau wrote: > Question... > if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris were > created with only the open sourced components Ok, why ? > I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, whatever > the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. So replace "Solaris Express" with "OpenSolaris Reference", and continue down our path of gradually replacing the closed portions of Solaris with the (presumably newly written) open components and you're on to a winner. At the same time, we'd continue moving the production of (what was called) Solaris Express out into the open. Wouldn't that achieve the same thing ? [ and leave Solaris Express Developer edition where it is, with support, etc. as before ] I guess I'm thinking that building a community reference edition would be a bit of a duplication of effort, given that there's already a group of people paid to do release engineering, program management, etc. of something that includes the OpenSolaris source base. Now, it's not fully open source, but as I understand it, that's something that Sun are trying to fix. If the problem we're trying to solve is that Solaris Express isn't freely distributable, then can't we just[1] make it freely distributable and re-brand it as $foo ? > Bonus points if we could make it fit onto 1 install CD media. 6 CDs for Solaris Express is pretty bad I admit. cheers, tim [1] Yeah, I know - the same way most coding problems are /just/ a simple matter of programming -- Tim Foster, Sun Microsystems Inc, Solaris Engineering Ops http://blogs.sun.com/timf From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Tue Apr 24 02:33:08 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:33:08 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> Message-ID: <462DCED4.3030805@sun.com> Hi, > At the same time, we'd continue moving the production of (what was > called) Solaris Express out into the open. Wouldn't that achieve the > same thing ? Not necessarily, if Solaris Express will always be the bleeding edge for Solaris users and, presumably Sun Microsystems will want to reserve the option of including some closed components in its distribution of OpenSolaris, no? In the interests of simplicity, I agree it makes sense, but I suspect that Sun (and Sun's Solaris Express customers) have a need for Solaris Express as-is. We should ask this of the Solaris business unit to be sure. Patrick Tim Foster wrote: > Hey All, > > - here goes! > > On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 11:07 -0700, Stephen Lau wrote: >> Question... >> if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris were >> created with only the open sourced components > > Ok, why ? > >> I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, whatever >> the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. > > So replace "Solaris Express" with "OpenSolaris Reference", and continue > down our path of gradually replacing the closed portions of Solaris with > the (presumably newly written) open components and you're on to a > winner. > > At the same time, we'd continue moving the production of (what was > called) Solaris Express out into the open. Wouldn't that achieve the > same thing ? > > [ and leave Solaris Express Developer edition where it is, with > support, etc. as before ] > > > I guess I'm thinking that building a community reference edition would > be a bit of a duplication of effort, given that there's already a group > of people paid to do release engineering, program management, etc. of > something that includes the OpenSolaris source base. Now, it's not fully > open source, but as I understand it, that's something that Sun are > trying to fix. > > If the problem we're trying to solve is that Solaris Express isn't > freely distributable, then can't we just[1] make it freely distributable > and re-brand it as $foo ? > >> Bonus points if we could make it fit onto 1 install CD media. > > 6 CDs for Solaris Express is pretty bad I admit. > > cheers, > tim > > [1] Yeah, I know - the same way most coding problems are /just/ a simple > matter of programming From Tim.Foster at Sun.COM Tue Apr 24 03:29:10 2007 From: Tim.Foster at Sun.COM (Tim Foster) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:29:10 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462DCED4.3030805@sun.com> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462DCED4.3030805@sun.com> Message-ID: <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> Hey Patrick, Steve & co. [ mostly thinking out loud here ] On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 11:33 +0200, Patrick Finch wrote: > Hi, > > > At the same time, we'd continue moving the production of (what was > > called) Solaris Express out into the open. Wouldn't that achieve the > > same thing ? > presumably Sun Microsystems will want to reserve the > option of including some closed components in its distribution of > OpenSolaris, no? That makes sense alright, I agree. Do any of the existing distributions do what's being suggested ? [ a freely distributable reference distribution of OpenSolaris ] Schillix being the closest to Solaris would seem like a candidate, though it hasn't been updated in a while. Belenix has a wow-factor that's pretty cool, and fits on one CD, but doesn't ship the JDS consolidation. Nexenta is more aimed at GNU/Linux userland fans. Martux is sparc-only (isn't it?) and so cuts out a large portion of the install-base. So - we'd be left with needing to create a new distribution for this, possibly with worse hardware support than Solaris Express ? (unless there exists open source equivalents for every closed source driver shipping in Express ?) Given an open source reference edition of OpenSolaris, then it'd loose, say Nvidia 3d support & whatever closed-source wifi/ethernet drivers are out there, fluendo mp3 support.. Speaking for myself, that'd make such a distribution less attractive for my (fictional) laptop. On the other hand, perhaps I'm not the target market. Is a reference distribution aimed at developers of new distributions, that is, is it intended to be used as a base for building new distributions from ? Or is it aimed at developers of open source drivers/components for OpenSolaris who don't like the restrictions of running closed-binaries that ship in Express? If it isn't as good as Solaris Express, then what, other than it's unencumbered-status would be the attraction of it for a casual end-user ? [ sorry for all the questions - I'm thinking about the answers as well, lest you think I'm just trying to shoot down everyone's ideas ;-) ] cheers, tim > Tim Foster wrote: > > Hey All, > > > > - here goes! > > > > On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 11:07 -0700, Stephen Lau wrote: > >> Question... > >> if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris were > >> created with only the open sourced components > > > > Ok, why ? > > > >> I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, whatever > >> the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. > > > > So replace "Solaris Express" with "OpenSolaris Reference", and continue > > down our path of gradually replacing the closed portions of Solaris with > > the (presumably newly written) open components and you're on to a > > winner. > > > > At the same time, we'd continue moving the production of (what was > > called) Solaris Express out into the open. Wouldn't that achieve the > > same thing ? > > > > [ and leave Solaris Express Developer edition where it is, with > > support, etc. as before ] > > > > > > I guess I'm thinking that building a community reference edition would > > be a bit of a duplication of effort, given that there's already a group > > of people paid to do release engineering, program management, etc. of > > something that includes the OpenSolaris source base. Now, it's not fully > > open source, but as I understand it, that's something that Sun are > > trying to fix. > > > > If the problem we're trying to solve is that Solaris Express isn't > > freely distributable, then can't we just[1] make it freely distributable > > and re-brand it as $foo ? > > > >> Bonus points if we could make it fit onto 1 install CD media. > > > > 6 CDs for Solaris Express is pretty bad I admit. > > > > cheers, > > tim > > > > [1] Yeah, I know - the same way most coding problems are /just/ a simple > > matter of programming -- Tim Foster, Sun Microsystems Inc, Solaris Engineering Ops http://blogs.sun.com/timf From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Tue Apr 24 03:57:43 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:57:43 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462DCED4.3030805@sun.com> <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> Message-ID: <462DE2A7.9050202@sun.com> Agree that highly restricted device support doesn't win many converts, but one approach I've seen is that Ubuntu installs a (pretty terrible) open driver for my ATI graphics card and helps me download and install a better performing, closed one if I choose to. This is also probably related to how they keep their install image down to one CD. Would this be a smart approach for an OpenSolaris reference distro? Patrick Tim Foster wrote: > Hey Patrick, Steve & co. > > [ mostly thinking out loud here ] > > On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 11:33 +0200, Patrick Finch wrote: >> Hi, >> >> > At the same time, we'd continue moving the production of (what was >> > called) Solaris Express out into the open. Wouldn't that achieve the >> > same thing ? > >> presumably Sun Microsystems will want to reserve the >> option of including some closed components in its distribution of >> OpenSolaris, no? > > That makes sense alright, I agree. > > Do any of the existing distributions do what's being suggested ? > [ a freely distributable reference distribution of OpenSolaris ] > > Schillix being the closest to Solaris would seem like a candidate, > though it hasn't been updated in a while. > > Belenix has a wow-factor that's pretty cool, and fits on one CD, but > doesn't ship the JDS consolidation. > > Nexenta is more aimed at GNU/Linux userland fans. Martux is sparc-only > (isn't it?) and so cuts out a large portion of the install-base. > > So - we'd be left with needing to create a new distribution for this, > possibly with worse hardware support than Solaris Express ? (unless > there exists open source equivalents for every closed source driver > shipping in Express ?) > > > Given an open source reference edition of OpenSolaris, then it'd loose, > say Nvidia 3d support & whatever closed-source wifi/ethernet drivers are > out there, fluendo mp3 support.. Speaking for myself, that'd make such a > distribution less attractive for my (fictional) laptop. > > On the other hand, perhaps I'm not the target market. > > Is a reference distribution aimed at developers of new distributions, > that is, is it intended to be used as a base for building new > distributions from ? > > Or is it aimed at developers of open source drivers/components for > OpenSolaris who don't like the restrictions of running closed-binaries > that ship in Express? If it isn't as good as Solaris Express, then > what, other than it's unencumbered-status would be the attraction of it > for a casual end-user ? > > [ sorry for all the questions - I'm thinking about the answers as well, > lest you think I'm just trying to shoot down everyone's ideas ;-) ] > > cheers, > tim > >> Tim Foster wrote: >>> Hey All, >>> >>> - here goes! >>> >>> On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 11:07 -0700, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>> Question... >>>> if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris were >>>> created with only the open sourced components >>> Ok, why ? >>> >>>> I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, whatever >>>> the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. >>> So replace "Solaris Express" with "OpenSolaris Reference", and continue >>> down our path of gradually replacing the closed portions of Solaris with >>> the (presumably newly written) open components and you're on to a >>> winner. >>> >>> At the same time, we'd continue moving the production of (what was >>> called) Solaris Express out into the open. Wouldn't that achieve the >>> same thing ? >>> >>> [ and leave Solaris Express Developer edition where it is, with >>> support, etc. as before ] >>> >>> >>> I guess I'm thinking that building a community reference edition would >>> be a bit of a duplication of effort, given that there's already a group >>> of people paid to do release engineering, program management, etc. of >>> something that includes the OpenSolaris source base. Now, it's not fully >>> open source, but as I understand it, that's something that Sun are >>> trying to fix. >>> >>> If the problem we're trying to solve is that Solaris Express isn't >>> freely distributable, then can't we just[1] make it freely distributable >>> and re-brand it as $foo ? >>> >>>> Bonus points if we could make it fit onto 1 install CD media. >>> 6 CDs for Solaris Express is pretty bad I admit. >>> >>> cheers, >>> tim >>> >>> [1] Yeah, I know - the same way most coding problems are /just/ a simple >>> matter of programming From brian.gupta at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 04:09:05 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:09:05 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> Message-ID: <3808424.1177412988799.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Wouldn't it be premature to start distributing this before we have a complete unencumbered "official" distro? This message posted from opensolaris.org From blastwave at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 04:16:06 2007 From: blastwave at gmail.com (Dennis Clarke) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 07:16:06 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462DE2A7.9050202@sun.com> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462DCED4.3030805@sun.com> <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> <462DE2A7.9050202@sun.com> Message-ID: On 4/24/07, Patrick Finch wrote: > Agree that highly restricted device support doesn't win many converts, > but one approach I've seen is that Ubuntu installs a (pretty terrible) > open driver for my ATI graphics card and helps me download and install a > better performing, closed one if I choose to. This is also probably > related to how they keep their install image down to one CD. > > Would this be a smart approach for an OpenSolaris reference distro? What is the currently acceptable revision of a "reference edition" for OpenSolaris? Would that be snv_55b which ships on the cute DVD's distributed by Sun ? Would that work ? Here .. let me make this easy as pie : Is snv_55b the acceptable "reference edition" of OpenSolaris ? [ ] YES [ ] NO If NO then what revision or distro ? Dennis From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Tue Apr 24 05:06:41 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:06:41 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462DCED4.3030805@sun.com> <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> Message-ID: <462df2d1.U8SSCxLoz+nsV4pF%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Tim Foster wrote: > Do any of the existing distributions do what's being suggested ? > [ a freely distributable reference distribution of OpenSolaris ] > > Schillix being the closest to Solaris would seem like a candidate, > though it hasn't been updated in a while. Well, I did explain this already several times before... I did stop working on cdrtools and star while working on SchilliX and I need to work on other OSS activities too. I am still looking for help with the GUI components and a new SchilliX release will come out in the close future. J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Tue Apr 24 08:19:37 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:19:37 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [website-discuss] Updates of the monthly highlights pages In-Reply-To: <4615563B.2070902@sun.com> References: <25820753.1175668248702.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <4614307C.8050606@sun.com> <4615563B.2070902@sun.com> Message-ID: <462E2009.1020306@sun.com> Ken, Sorry for the long delay here. I'm not sure if you've been responded to. The most recent stats are posted at http://opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/metrics/latest. Sara Ken Tomlinson wrote: > Hello OpenSolaris marketing, > > Do you have any thoughts to share about my suggestions below? > -Ken > > Derek Cicero wrote: > >> Ken Tomlinson wrote: >> >>> I noticed the monthly highlights pages are nearly a year behind: >>> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/highlights/ >>> >>> I would be cool to have the latest months added. >>> For the links themselves, we should always include both month and >>> year using >>> a conventional naming scheme. >>> >>> Finally, perhaps these no long need to include the usage statistics >>> but could >>> simply contain pointers to what's available here: >>> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/metrics/ >> >> >> I know they are moving to monthly updates going forward, but I would >> suggest pinging marketing-discuss for more info. >> >> Derek >> >>> >>> >>> This message posted from opensolaris.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> website-discuss mailing list >>> website-discuss at opensolaris.org >>> >> >> > > From stevel at sun.com Tue Apr 24 08:22:28 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:22:28 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> Message-ID: <462E20B4.5090001@sun.com> Tim Foster wrote: >> if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris were >> created with only the open sourced components > > Ok, why ? > >> I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, whatever >> the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. > > So replace "Solaris Express" with "OpenSolaris Reference", and continue > down our path of gradually replacing the closed portions of Solaris with > the (presumably newly written) open components and you're on to a > winner. Because Solaris Express will always contain non-redistributable binaries (e.g.: Nvidia driver, StarOffice, etc. etc.) that will inhibit 3rd party free redistribution. > At the same time, we'd continue moving the production of (what was > called) Solaris Express out into the open. Wouldn't that achieve the > same thing ? Solaris Express will never be 100% completely open though... which is fine... that's Sun prerogative as a distributor. > [ and leave Solaris Express Developer edition where it is, with > support, etc. as before ] > > > I guess I'm thinking that building a community reference edition would > be a bit of a duplication of effort, given that there's already a group > of people paid to do release engineering, program management, etc. of > something that includes the OpenSolaris source base. Now, it's not fully > open source, but as I understand it, that's something that Sun are > trying to fix. Hrm... not quite. Sun is willing to assist people in fixing some components - but would never be amenable to doing things like taking out the Nvidia driver, or tossing StarOffice. > If the problem we're trying to solve is that Solaris Express isn't > freely distributable, then can't we just[1] make it freely distributable > and re-brand it as $foo ? That's not our decision to make since that would involve discussions with partners (like NVidia for example), etc. >> Bonus points if we could make it fit onto 1 install CD media. > > 6 CDs for Solaris Express is pretty bad I admit. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From blastwave at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 08:29:12 2007 From: blastwave at gmail.com (Dennis Clarke) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:29:12 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462E20B4.5090001@sun.com> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462E20B4.5090001@sun.com> Message-ID: On 4/24/07, Stephen Lau wrote: > Tim Foster wrote: > >> if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris were > >> created with only the open sourced components > > > > Ok, why ? > > > >> I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, whatever > >> the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. > > > > So replace "Solaris Express" with "OpenSolaris Reference", and continue > > down our path of gradually replacing the closed portions of Solaris with > > the (presumably newly written) open components and you're on to a > > winner. > > Because Solaris Express will always contain non-redistributable binaries > (e.g.: Nvidia driver, StarOffice, etc. etc.) that will inhibit 3rd party > free redistribution. > OKay .. so if I drop the snv_55b DVD ISO's onto the Blastwave mirrors worldwide ( or ever a few ) then I can expect a pack of land sharks at my door toute suite. :-P Dennis From stevel at sun.com Tue Apr 24 08:26:32 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:26:32 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462DCED4.3030805@sun.com> <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> Message-ID: <462E21A8.4040702@sun.com> Tim Foster wrote: > Do any of the existing distributions do what's being suggested ? > [ a freely distributable reference distribution of OpenSolaris ] Not to my knowledge. > > Schillix being the closest to Solaris would seem like a candidate, > though it hasn't been updated in a while. > > Belenix has a wow-factor that's pretty cool, and fits on one CD, but > doesn't ship the JDS consolidation. > > Nexenta is more aimed at GNU/Linux userland fans. Martux is sparc-only > (isn't it?) and so cuts out a large portion of the install-base. > > So - we'd be left with needing to create a new distribution for this, > possibly with worse hardware support than Solaris Express ? (unless > there exists open source equivalents for every closed source driver > shipping in Express ?) It will definitely be a subset of the hardware support of Solaris Express since we wouldn't be able to ship drivers we don't have the rights to. > Given an open source reference edition of OpenSolaris, then it'd loose, > say Nvidia 3d support & whatever closed-source wifi/ethernet drivers are > out there, fluendo mp3 support.. Speaking for myself, that'd make such a > distribution less attractive for my (fictional) laptop. Sure - but it might be appropriate for others. I suppose I'm looking at it from this perspective: if I'm an OpenSolaris user group on Gilligan's Island with no Sun employees around to give out copies of SXCE, and I've got a hundred little islanders around me with laptops. Do I do nothing? (since I can't distribute SXCE?) or do I give out *something* (OpenSolaris Reference Distro), even if it may not be fully supported on everyone's machine. > On the other hand, perhaps I'm not the target market. > > Is a reference distribution aimed at developers of new distributions, > that is, is it intended to be used as a base for building new > distributions from ? That's one use case, certainly. > Or is it aimed at developers of open source drivers/components for > OpenSolaris who don't like the restrictions of running closed-binaries > that ship in Express? That's another. > If it isn't as good as Solaris Express, then > what, other than it's unencumbered-status would be the attraction of it > for a casual end-user ? If the casual end-user has a means of getting Solaris Express, then it wouldn't hold any additional attraction. > [ sorry for all the questions - I'm thinking about the answers as well, > lest you think I'm just trying to shoot down everyone's ideas ;-) ] No worries, I appreciate the discussion. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Tue Apr 24 08:50:42 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:50:42 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462DE2A7.9050202@sun.com> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462DCED4.3030805@sun.com> <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> <462DE2A7.9050202@sun.com> Message-ID: <462E2752.5090303@sun.com> If the OpenSolaris community can negotiate a way with NVidia/ATI/whoever to eventually provide a way to easily obtain the driver, that would be great. But yeah, I don't see a problem with shipping/using the default cruddy drivers just to get the free redistribution. -steve Patrick Finch wrote: > Agree that highly restricted device support doesn't win many converts, > but one approach I've seen is that Ubuntu installs a (pretty terrible) > open driver for my ATI graphics card and helps me download and install a > better performing, closed one if I choose to. This is also probably > related to how they keep their install image down to one CD. > > Would this be a smart approach for an OpenSolaris reference distro? > > > Patrick > > > > > Tim Foster wrote: >> Hey Patrick, Steve & co. >> >> [ mostly thinking out loud here ] >> >> On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 11:33 +0200, Patrick Finch wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> > At the same time, we'd continue moving the production of (what was >>> > called) Solaris Express out into the open. Wouldn't that achieve the >>> > same thing ? >> >>> presumably Sun Microsystems will want to reserve the option of >>> including some closed components in its distribution of OpenSolaris, no? >> >> That makes sense alright, I agree. >> >> Do any of the existing distributions do what's being suggested ? >> [ a freely distributable reference distribution of OpenSolaris ] >> >> Schillix being the closest to Solaris would seem like a candidate, >> though it hasn't been updated in a while. >> >> Belenix has a wow-factor that's pretty cool, and fits on one CD, but >> doesn't ship the JDS consolidation. >> >> Nexenta is more aimed at GNU/Linux userland fans. Martux is sparc-only >> (isn't it?) and so cuts out a large portion of the install-base. >> >> So - we'd be left with needing to create a new distribution for this, >> possibly with worse hardware support than Solaris Express ? (unless >> there exists open source equivalents for every closed source driver >> shipping in Express ?) >> >> >> Given an open source reference edition of OpenSolaris, then it'd loose, >> say Nvidia 3d support & whatever closed-source wifi/ethernet drivers are >> out there, fluendo mp3 support.. Speaking for myself, that'd make such a >> distribution less attractive for my (fictional) laptop. >> >> On the other hand, perhaps I'm not the target market. >> >> Is a reference distribution aimed at developers of new distributions, >> that is, is it intended to be used as a base for building new >> distributions from ? >> >> Or is it aimed at developers of open source drivers/components for >> OpenSolaris who don't like the restrictions of running closed-binaries >> that ship in Express? If it isn't as good as Solaris Express, then >> what, other than it's unencumbered-status would be the attraction of it >> for a casual end-user ? >> >> [ sorry for all the questions - I'm thinking about the answers as well, >> lest you think I'm just trying to shoot down everyone's ideas ;-) ] >> >> cheers, >> tim >> >>> Tim Foster wrote: >>>> Hey All, >>>> >>>> - here goes! >>>> >>>> On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 11:07 -0700, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>> Question... >>>>> if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris >>>>> were created with only the open sourced components >>>> Ok, why ? >>>> >>>>> I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, >>>>> whatever the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. >>>> So replace "Solaris Express" with "OpenSolaris Reference", and continue >>>> down our path of gradually replacing the closed portions of Solaris >>>> with >>>> the (presumably newly written) open components and you're on to a >>>> winner. >>>> >>>> At the same time, we'd continue moving the production of (what was >>>> called) Solaris Express out into the open. Wouldn't that achieve the >>>> same thing ? >>>> >>>> [ and leave Solaris Express Developer edition where it is, with >>>> support, etc. as before ] >>>> >>>> >>>> I guess I'm thinking that building a community reference edition would >>>> be a bit of a duplication of effort, given that there's already a group >>>> of people paid to do release engineering, program management, etc. of >>>> something that includes the OpenSolaris source base. Now, it's not >>>> fully >>>> open source, but as I understand it, that's something that Sun are >>>> trying to fix. >>>> >>>> If the problem we're trying to solve is that Solaris Express isn't >>>> freely distributable, then can't we just[1] make it freely >>>> distributable >>>> and re-brand it as $foo ? >>>> >>>>> Bonus points if we could make it fit onto 1 install CD media. >>>> 6 CDs for Solaris Express is pretty bad I admit. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> tim >>>> >>>> [1] Yeah, I know - the same way most coding problems are /just/ a >>>> simple >>>> matter of programming > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Tue Apr 24 08:52:44 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:52:44 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462DCED4.3030805@sun.com> <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> <462DE2A7.9050202@sun.com> Message-ID: <462E27CC.3020005@sun.com> Dennis Clarke wrote: > On 4/24/07, Patrick Finch wrote: >> Agree that highly restricted device support doesn't win many converts, >> but one approach I've seen is that Ubuntu installs a (pretty terrible) >> open driver for my ATI graphics card and helps me download and install a >> better performing, closed one if I choose to. This is also probably >> related to how they keep their install image down to one CD. >> >> Would this be a smart approach for an OpenSolaris reference distro? > > What is the currently acceptable revision of a "reference edition" for > OpenSolaris? > > Would that be snv_55b which ships on the cute DVD's distributed by Sun ? > Would that work ? > > Here .. let me make this easy as pie : > > Is snv_55b the acceptable "reference edition" of OpenSolaris ? > > [ ] YES > > [ ] NO > > If NO then what revision or distro ? No. I'm talking about a completely free, completely redistributable by third parties distribution of OpenSolaris that is as close to SXCE as possible, but without the encumbered non-redistributable components. Currently no distribution satisfies those constraints. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Tue Apr 24 08:54:01 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:54:01 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462E20B4.5090001@sun.com> Message-ID: <462E2819.9050504@sun.com> Dennis Clarke wrote: > On 4/24/07, Stephen Lau wrote: >> Tim Foster wrote: >> >> if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris were >> >> created with only the open sourced components >> > >> > Ok, why ? >> > >> >> I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, >> whatever >> >> the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. >> > >> > So replace "Solaris Express" with "OpenSolaris Reference", and continue >> > down our path of gradually replacing the closed portions of Solaris >> with >> > the (presumably newly written) open components and you're on to a >> > winner. >> >> Because Solaris Express will always contain non-redistributable binaries >> (e.g.: Nvidia driver, StarOffice, etc. etc.) that will inhibit 3rd party >> free redistribution. >> > > OKay .. so if I drop the snv_55b DVD ISO's onto the Blastwave mirrors > worldwide ( or ever a few ) then I can expect a pack of land sharks at > my door toute suite. :-P Indeed. -steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Tue Apr 24 08:54:40 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:54:40 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: reference distribution In-Reply-To: <3808424.1177412988799.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> References: <3808424.1177412988799.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <462E2840.5030802@sun.com> Brian Gupta wrote: > Wouldn't it be premature to start distributing this before we have a complete unencumbered "official" distro? What is "official"? We don't have an "official" distribution at all right now, that's what I'm proposing we establish. -steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Tue Apr 24 09:02:38 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:02:38 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462E2752.5090303@sun.com> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462DCED4.3030805@sun.com> <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> <462DE2A7.9050202@sun.com> <462E2752.5090303@sun.com> Message-ID: <462E2A1E.6020109@sun.com> For nvidia, it shouldn't be hard to script a wget http://www.nvidia.com/... to grab the driver. -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering Stephen Lau wrote: > If the OpenSolaris community can negotiate a way with NVidia/ATI/whoever > to eventually provide a way to easily obtain the driver, that would be > great. > > But yeah, I don't see a problem with shipping/using the default cruddy > drivers just to get the free redistribution. > > -steve > > Patrick Finch wrote: >> Agree that highly restricted device support doesn't win many converts, >> but one approach I've seen is that Ubuntu installs a (pretty terrible) >> open driver for my ATI graphics card and helps me download and install >> a better performing, closed one if I choose to. This is also probably >> related to how they keep their install image down to one CD. >> >> Would this be a smart approach for an OpenSolaris reference distro? >> >> >> Patrick >> >> >> >> >> Tim Foster wrote: >>> Hey Patrick, Steve & co. >>> >>> [ mostly thinking out loud here ] >>> >>> On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 11:33 +0200, Patrick Finch wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> > At the same time, we'd continue moving the production of (what was >>>> > called) Solaris Express out into the open. Wouldn't that achieve the >>>> > same thing ? >>> >>>> presumably Sun Microsystems will want to reserve the option of >>>> including some closed components in its distribution of OpenSolaris, >>>> no? >>> >>> That makes sense alright, I agree. >>> >>> Do any of the existing distributions do what's being suggested ? >>> [ a freely distributable reference distribution of OpenSolaris ] >>> >>> Schillix being the closest to Solaris would seem like a candidate, >>> though it hasn't been updated in a while. >>> >>> Belenix has a wow-factor that's pretty cool, and fits on one CD, but >>> doesn't ship the JDS consolidation. >>> >>> Nexenta is more aimed at GNU/Linux userland fans. Martux is sparc-only >>> (isn't it?) and so cuts out a large portion of the install-base. >>> >>> So - we'd be left with needing to create a new distribution for this, >>> possibly with worse hardware support than Solaris Express ? (unless >>> there exists open source equivalents for every closed source driver >>> shipping in Express ?) >>> >>> >>> Given an open source reference edition of OpenSolaris, then it'd loose, >>> say Nvidia 3d support & whatever closed-source wifi/ethernet drivers are >>> out there, fluendo mp3 support.. Speaking for myself, that'd make such a >>> distribution less attractive for my (fictional) laptop. >>> >>> On the other hand, perhaps I'm not the target market. >>> >>> Is a reference distribution aimed at developers of new distributions, >>> that is, is it intended to be used as a base for building new >>> distributions from ? >>> >>> Or is it aimed at developers of open source drivers/components for >>> OpenSolaris who don't like the restrictions of running closed-binaries >>> that ship in Express? If it isn't as good as Solaris Express, then >>> what, other than it's unencumbered-status would be the attraction of it >>> for a casual end-user ? >>> >>> [ sorry for all the questions - I'm thinking about the answers as well, >>> lest you think I'm just trying to shoot down everyone's ideas ;-) ] >>> >>> cheers, >>> tim >>> >>>> Tim Foster wrote: >>>>> Hey All, >>>>> >>>>> - here goes! >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 11:07 -0700, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>>> Question... >>>>>> if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris >>>>>> were created with only the open sourced components >>>>> Ok, why ? >>>>> >>>>>> I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, >>>>>> whatever the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. >>>>> So replace "Solaris Express" with "OpenSolaris Reference", and >>>>> continue >>>>> down our path of gradually replacing the closed portions of Solaris >>>>> with >>>>> the (presumably newly written) open components and you're on to a >>>>> winner. >>>>> >>>>> At the same time, we'd continue moving the production of (what was >>>>> called) Solaris Express out into the open. Wouldn't that achieve the >>>>> same thing ? >>>>> >>>>> [ and leave Solaris Express Developer edition where it is, with >>>>> support, etc. as before ] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I guess I'm thinking that building a community reference edition would >>>>> be a bit of a duplication of effort, given that there's already a >>>>> group >>>>> of people paid to do release engineering, program management, etc. of >>>>> something that includes the OpenSolaris source base. Now, it's not >>>>> fully >>>>> open source, but as I understand it, that's something that Sun are >>>>> trying to fix. >>>>> >>>>> If the problem we're trying to solve is that Solaris Express isn't >>>>> freely distributable, then can't we just[1] make it freely >>>>> distributable >>>>> and re-brand it as $foo ? >>>>> >>>>>> Bonus points if we could make it fit onto 1 install CD media. >>>>> 6 CDs for Solaris Express is pretty bad I admit. >>>>> >>>>> cheers, >>>>> tim >>>>> >>>>> [1] Yeah, I know - the same way most coding problems are /just/ a >>>>> simple >>>>> matter of programming >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > > From stevel at sun.com Tue Apr 24 09:04:17 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:04:17 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462E2A1E.6020109@sun.com> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462DCED4.3030805@sun.com> <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> <462DE2A7.9050202@sun.com> <462E2752.5090303@sun.com> <462E2A1E.6020109@sun.com> Message-ID: <462E2A81.5080204@sun.com> Alan Coopersmith wrote: > For nvidia, it shouldn't be hard to script a wget http://www.nvidia.com/... > to grab the driver. Display http://www.nvidia.com/object/nv_swlicense.html and then wget http://us.download.nvidia.com/solaris/1.0-9755/NVIDIA-Solaris-x86-1.0-9755.run (or whatever the newer version is) but yeah, that should work. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Tue Apr 24 09:09:04 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:09:04 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462E20B4.5090001@sun.com> Message-ID: <462E2BA0.5040109@sun.com> Dennis Clarke wrote: > OKay .. so if I drop the snv_55b DVD ISO's onto the Blastwave mirrors > worldwide ( or ever a few ) then I can expect a pack of land sharks at > my door toute suite. :-P Unless you and all the mirror operators have signed a Solaris redistribution license, yes. Some of the licenses Sun signed for third party components in Solaris require redistributors to have signed contracts that pass through the terms of those licenses - unless/until all those components are removed, Solaris is not freely redistributable. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From stevel at sun.com Tue Apr 24 11:43:33 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:43:33 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: reference distribution In-Reply-To: <5b5090780704241131i74754da6h9f4267676311ee86@mail.gmail.com> References: <3808424.1177412988799.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <462E2840.5030802@sun.com> <5b5090780704241131i74754da6h9f4267676311ee86@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <462E4FD5.40206@sun.com> Right, and that's what I'm proposing.... building an open source clone that would be as close to OpenSolaris "standard" as possible (i.e.: ON+X+JDS) cheers, steve Brian Gupta wrote: > Let me restate what I was trying to get across. > > Might we want to wait until we have an Open Source clone of Solaris > Express. (As opposed to picking one of the community distributions that > are significantly different than Solaris Express.) > > My initial understanding was that the OpenSolaris "standard" > distribution should match as closely as possible to Solaris express. > > Thanks, > - Brian > > On 4/24/07, *Stephen Lau* > wrote: > > Brian Gupta wrote: > > Wouldn't it be premature to start distributing this before we > have a complete unencumbered "official" distro? > > What is "official"? We don't have an "official" distribution at all > right now, that's what I'm proposing we establish. > > -steve > > -- > stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 > | http://whacked.net > opensolaris // solaris kernel development > > -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From webmink at sun.com Tue Apr 24 13:37:39 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 21:37:39 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462E4FD5.40206@sun.com> References: <3808424.1177412988799.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <462E2840.5030802@sun.com> <5b5090780704241131i74754da6h9f4267676311ee86@mail.gmail.com> <462E4FD5.40206@sun.com> Message-ID: I love the idea. S. On Apr 24, 2007, at 19:43, Stephen Lau wrote: > Right, and that's what I'm proposing.... building an open source > clone that would be as close to OpenSolaris "standard" as possible > (i.e.: ON+X+JDS) > > cheers, > steve > > Brian Gupta wrote: >> Let me restate what I was trying to get across. >> Might we want to wait until we have an Open Source clone of >> Solaris Express. (As opposed to picking one of the community >> distributions that are significantly different than Solaris Express.) >> My initial understanding was that the OpenSolaris "standard" >> distribution should match as closely as possible to Solaris express. >> Thanks, >> - Brian >> On 4/24/07, *Stephen Lau* > >> wrote: >> Brian Gupta wrote: >> > Wouldn't it be premature to start distributing this before we >> have a complete unencumbered "official" distro? >> What is "official"? We don't have an "official" distribution >> at all >> right now, that's what I'm proposing we establish. >> -steve From peter.tribble at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 14:41:03 2007 From: peter.tribble at gmail.com (Peter Tribble) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:41:03 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> Message-ID: On 4/23/07, Stephen Lau wrote: > Question... Quick answer - I like it! > if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris were > created with only the open sourced components (I'm thinking ON+X+JDS), What's the aim? To produce a fully-featured standalone distro, or a base skeleton that could be used as a foundation by others? In many ways, I'm more in favour of the latter, because it would easily allow extension to the former, while also giving a common base for anyone who wanted to produce - for example - a custom appliance distribution, or a KDE based distro, or any other alternative desktop. (Which would argue for taking some at least of JDS out of the base.) Could this then extend to being able to pick the chunks you wanted to be able to easily create your own custom CD? > it could be freely redistributable via 3rd parties, mirrours, and > BitTorrents, right? (since the OBL that covers the closed-bins allows > free redistribution) > > I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, whatever > the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. > > Bonus points if we could make it fit onto 1 install CD media. Or not bother with much in the way of physical media at all! In many ways, making it small is crucial. Even in the days of broadband, spending many hours downloading huge wads of stuff you don't need is a huge waste. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ From stevel at sun.com Tue Apr 24 14:52:44 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:52:44 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> Message-ID: <462E7C2C.1070902@sun.com> Peter Tribble wrote: > On 4/23/07, Stephen Lau wrote: >> Question... > > Quick answer - I like it! > >> if a community-driven reference/base distribution of OpenSolaris were >> created with only the open sourced components (I'm thinking ON+X+JDS), > > What's the aim? To produce a fully-featured standalone distro, or > a base skeleton that could be used as a foundation by others? I'd like to think we could do both; we could provide a "kit" that would setup the base skeleton (e.g.: ON) and distribute both the base skeleton kit, as well as a fully-featured standalone distro (built using the skeleton) that would have the full ON+X+JDS. > In many ways, I'm more in favour of the latter, because it would > easily allow extension to the former *exactly* my train of thought as well :) >, while also giving a common base > for anyone who wanted to produce - for example - a custom appliance > distribution, or a KDE based distro, or any other alternative desktop. > > (Which would argue for taking some at least of JDS out of the base.) Right, which is why I think a base kit that had just ON would be good, but I would also like to see a full standalone distro assembled from all the consolidations available on opensolaris.org. > Could this then extend to being able to pick the chunks you wanted > to be able to easily create your own custom CD? I believe so, if we put it together modularly enough. >> it could be freely redistributable via 3rd parties, mirrours, and >> BitTorrents, right? (since the OBL that covers the closed-bins allows >> free redistribution) >> >> I think this could considerably help the evangelism (advocacy, whatever >> the accepted PC word of the day is) of OpenSolaris. >> >> Bonus points if we could make it fit onto 1 install CD media. > > Or not bother with much in the way of physical media at all! > > In many ways, making it small is crucial. Even in the days of broadband, > spending many hours downloading huge wads of stuff you don't need > is a huge waste. Yup, I very much agree. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 25 00:13:35 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:13:35 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> The OGB has started the community reorganization discussion: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-April/000289.html And the merger of the Marketing and User Group Communities is on their list for consideration. We clearly have consensus here to do this based on this thread, but I'm not sure we have any consensus on a name yet. Here are the suggestions I have so far: * Ambassador Community * Advocates Community * Evangelism Community * Evangelization Community * Outreach Community I like Advocates best. The OpenSolaris Advocates Community. If you like, chime in with your opinion on the name specifically and we'll see if we can get some consensus. Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 25 00:21:18 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:21:18 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> Message-ID: <462F016E.7020903@Sun.COM> Peter Tribble wrote On 04/25/07 06:41,: > On 4/23/07, Stephen Lau wrote: > >> Question... > > > Quick answer - I like it! I like it too. :) How can I help? Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Xinfeng.Liu at Sun.COM Wed Apr 25 00:50:04 2007 From: Xinfeng.Liu at Sun.COM (Xin-Feng Liu) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:50:04 +0800 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <462F082C.6050507@Sun.COM> I like "Advocates" too. -Xinfeng Jim Grisanzio wrote On 2007?04?25? 15:13,: > The OGB has started the community reorganization discussion: > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-April/000289.html > > And the merger of the Marketing and User Group Communities is on their > list for consideration. We clearly have consensus here to do this based > on this thread, but I'm not sure we have any consensus on a name yet. > > Here are the suggestions I have so far: > > * Ambassador Community > * Advocates Community > * Evangelism Community > * Evangelization Community > * Outreach Community > > I like Advocates best. The OpenSolaris Advocates Community. > > If you like, chime in with your opinion on the name specifically and > we'll see if we can get some consensus. > > Jim From stief at guug.de Wed Apr 25 00:51:49 2007 From: stief at guug.de (Wolfgang Stief) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:51:49 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <22341317.1177487578594.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Hello Jim! > Here are the suggestions I have so far: > > * Ambassador Community > * Advocates Community > * Evangelism Community > * Evangelization Community > * Outreach Community > like Advocates best. The OpenSolaris Advocates > Community. I followed the discussion on osol-mktg so far. I agree with you on 'Advocates Community'. Outreach seems not strong enough for me, whereas Evangelism / Evangelization sounds way too strong and narrow minded to my ears. My personal favorite is Ambassador, but depending on whom somebody talks to, this might bring up confusion with Sun Ambassadors. wolfgang This message posted from opensolaris.org From brian.gupta at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 04:56:47 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs Message-ID: <3260332604.13771494@smtp.gmail.com> I vote for OpenSolaris Advocacy Community. (Advocates is both a noun and a verb) Cheers, Brian -----Original Message----- From: Jim Grisanzio Date: Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 3:13 am Subject: Re: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs To: ug-discuss at opensolaris.org, opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org The OGB has started the community reorganization discussion: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-April/000289.html And the merger of the Marketing and User Group Communities is on their list for consideration. We clearly have consensus here to do this based on this thread, but I'm not sure we have any consensus on a name yet. Here are the suggestions I have so far: * Ambassador Community * Advocates Community * Evangelism Community * Evangelization Community * Outreach Community I like Advocates best. The OpenSolaris Advocates Community. If you like, chime in with your opinion on the name specifically and we'll see if we can get some consensus. Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris _______________________________________________ opensolaris-mktg mailing list opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From Tim.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Apr 25 05:13:23 2007 From: Tim.Foster at Sun.COM (Tim Foster) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:13:23 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <1177503203.29129.62.camel@haiiro> On Wed, 2007-04-25 at 16:13 +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Here are the suggestions I have so far: > > * Ambassador Community > * Advocates Community > * Evangelism Community > * Evangelization Community > * Outreach Community > > I like Advocates best. The OpenSolaris Advocates Community. > > If you like, chime in with your opinion on the name specifically and > we'll see if we can get some consensus. I still prefer Ambassadors, but understand that it clashes with the Sun community of the same name, so I'll vote for Advocate. cheers, tim -- Tim Foster, Sun Microsystems Inc, Solaris Engineering Ops http://blogs.sun.com/timf From Joey.Guo at Sun.COM Wed Apr 25 05:55:53 2007 From: Joey.Guo at Sun.COM (joey) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:55:53 +0800 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <462F4FD9.3000702@sun.com> Jim Grisanzio wrote: > The OGB has started the community reorganization discussion: > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-April/000289.html > > And the merger of the Marketing and User Group Communities is on their > list for consideration. We clearly have consensus here to do this > based on this thread, but I'm not sure we have any consensus on a name > yet. > > Here are the suggestions I have so far: > > * Ambassador Community > * Advocates Community > * Evangelism Community > * Evangelization Community > * Outreach Community > > I like Advocates best. The OpenSolaris Advocates Community. I prefer OpenSolaris Advocates Community as well. So far, we have the Campus Ambassador and Solaris Ambassador Programs as well as Solaris Evangelism team in Technology Outreach Group. To use the others may introduce some confusions. Any comments? -- Joey Guo, University Program Manager Sun China Engineering & Research Institute Tel: (86)10-62673245 Mobile: (86)13701115218 http://blogs.sun.com/JoeyGuo http://opentech.org.cn http://eri.prc/wiki/univ From stevel at sun.com Wed Apr 25 08:10:44 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:10:44 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <462F6F74.2030201@sun.com> Jim Grisanzio wrote: > The OGB has started the community reorganization discussion: > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-April/000289.html > > And the merger of the Marketing and User Group Communities is on their > list for consideration. We clearly have consensus here to do this based > on this thread, but I'm not sure we have any consensus on a name yet. > > Here are the suggestions I have so far: > > * Ambassador Community > * Advocates Community > * Evangelism Community > * Evangelization Community > * Outreach Community > > I like Advocates best. The OpenSolaris Advocates Community. > > If you like, chime in with your opinion on the name specifically and > we'll see if we can get some consensus. > > Jim Please also keep in mind the project naming convention discussion that's also happening on ogb-discuss. I'd rather not have communities/projects starting with "OpenSolaris" since it screws up the alphabetised sorting of the list... cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From brian.gupta at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 08:27:12 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:27:12 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <462F6F74.2030201@sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> <462F6F74.2030201@sun.com> Message-ID: <5b5090780704250827x75d172e1u9f9bef9776dc43c@mail.gmail.com> A couple for your list. Addvocacy and Promotion On 4/25/07, Stephen Lau wrote: > > Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > The OGB has started the community reorganization discussion: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-April/000289.html > > > > And the merger of the Marketing and User Group Communities is on their > > list for consideration. We clearly have consensus here to do this based > > on this thread, but I'm not sure we have any consensus on a name yet. > > > > Here are the suggestions I have so far: > > > > * Ambassador Community > > * Advocates Community > > * Evangelism Community > > * Evangelization Community > > * Outreach Community > > > > I like Advocates best. The OpenSolaris Advocates Community. > > > > If you like, chime in with your opinion on the name specifically and > > we'll see if we can get some consensus. > > > > Jim > > Please also keep in mind the project naming convention discussion that's > also happening on ogb-discuss. I'd rather not have communities/projects > starting with "OpenSolaris" since it screws up the alphabetised sorting > of the list... > > cheers, > steve > > -- > stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net > opensolaris // solaris kernel development > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alan.duboff at sun.com Wed Apr 25 12:12:24 2007 From: alan.duboff at sun.com (Alan DuBoff) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > The OGB has started the community reorganization discussion: > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-April/000289.html > > And the merger of the Marketing and User Group Communities is on their list > for consideration. We clearly have consensus here to do this based on this > thread, but I'm not sure we have any consensus on a name yet. > > Here are the suggestions I have so far: > > * Ambassador Community > * Advocates Community > * Evangelism Community > * Evangelization Community > * Outreach Community > > I like Advocates best. The OpenSolaris Advocates Community. > > If you like, chime in with your opinion on the name specifically and we'll > see if we can get some consensus. Jim, Is this for community people, even if we're from a defunct community? Evidentally I'm involved with a community that failed to respond to repeated inquiries to represent opensolaris, so we're now consider defunct. I'm unclear if our input is even needed. I'm not sure if my user group community is defunct or not, I didn't responsd to any repeated inquiries there either, so it must be...:-/ -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 IHV/OEM Group From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Wed Apr 25 13:09:33 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:09:33 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <462FB57D.6040702@sun.com> Alan DuBoff wrote: > Is this for community people, even if we're from a defunct community? > > Evidentally I'm involved with a community that failed to respond to > repeated inquiries to represent opensolaris, so we're now consider > defunct. I'm unclear if our input is even needed. The Device Driver community is not part of the merger under discussion, so why does that matter? > I'm not sure if my user group community is defunct or not, I didn't > responsd to any repeated inquiries there either, so it must be...:-/ The User Group community not only responded, it was a bit over-represented, naming 88 Core Contributors, almost 1/3rd of the the total voting base for the initial elections - Marketing named 6 Core Contributors, so neither one would be considered defunct, though if you wanted to hold a vote of all these people, I expect you'd have a hard time getting a majority of them to even cast ballots. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From binarycrusader at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 16:30:27 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:30:27 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462E2752.5090303@sun.com> References: <462CF5D3.80605@sun.com> <1177406199.6428.32.camel@haiiro> <462DCED4.3030805@sun.com> <1177410550.6428.65.camel@haiiro> <462DE2A7.9050202@sun.com> <462E2752.5090303@sun.com> Message-ID: On 24/04/07, Stephen Lau wrote: > If the OpenSolaris community can negotiate a way with NVidia/ATI/whoever > to eventually provide a way to easily obtain the driver, that would be > great. I think we just need to get Sun have one of their nVidia contacts add the word "OpenSolaris" to the license: http://www.nvidia.com/object/nv_swlicense.html They already allow Linux/FreeBSD redistribution: "2.1.2 Linux/FreeBSD Exception. Notwithstanding the foregoing terms of Section 2.1.1, SOFTWARE designed exclusively for use on the Linux or FreeBSD operating systems, or other operating systems derived from the source code to these operating systems, may be copied and redistributed, provided that the binary files thereof are not modified in any way (except for unzipping of compressed files)." Then again, does OpenSolaris contain any FreeBSD derived code? If so, by the looks of it, it would already qualify ;) -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From alan.duboff at sun.com Wed Apr 25 19:01:46 2007 From: alan.duboff at sun.com (Alan DuBoff) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Miles Nordin wrote: >>>>>> "ad" == Alan DuBoff writes: > > ad> I'm not sure if my user group community is defunct or not, I > ad> didn't responsd to any repeated inquiries there either, so it > ad> must be...:-/ > > The list I was on, ug-nycosug at opensolaris.org, just got removed. It > might have been nice to send a ``we're removing this list because > ______'' mail to the list before deleting it, but no worries, I > figured it out. :) Maybe you didn't respond to a message posted in another group, I've found out that happens. > I'm involved in several users' groups in the NYC area that work really > well, but I think maybe the group needs to be somewhat independent of > the vendors it discusses, like NYLUG, NYCBUG, and Unigroup are. > Sometimes vendors like IBM or Apple give these groups meeting space, > and sometimes Unigroup makes ``field trips'' to Sun, but all those > groups run their own mailing lists, web sites, and board elections. I've been involved in a few user groups myself. Maybe my user group is gone, I'll have to go look and see if we're still in the user group community. Chances are it's gone also, I don't remember responding to any inquiries. > Keeping our NYC users' groups outside Sun will also solve the problem > we had on ug-nycosug, where we had a mailing list but no actual group > to use it. At best, we had Brian Gupta and I discussing the > possibility of meeting right before the mailing list was quietly > deleted. Yeah, we used ot have a group of folks that got together and met for drinks to talk about Solaris, before OpenSolaris existed. A bunch of us would get together and toss cold ones, but it wasn't funded or setup by anyone at Sun. I guess we just didn't get the big picture or something... -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 IHV/OEM Group From alan.duboff at sun.com Wed Apr 25 19:06:04 2007 From: alan.duboff at sun.com (Alan DuBoff) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <462FB57D.6040702@sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> <462FB57D.6040702@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Alan DuBoff wrote: >> Is this for community people, even if we're from a defunct community? >> >> Evidentally I'm involved with a community that failed to respond to >> repeated inquiries to represent opensolaris, so we're now consider defunct. >> I'm unclear if our input is even needed. > > The Device Driver community is not part of the merger under discussion, > so why does that matter? I would think that SVOSUG was though. >> I'm not sure if my user group community is defunct or not, I didn't >> responsd to any repeated inquiries there either, so it must be...:-/ > > The User Group community not only responded, it was a bit over-represented, > naming 88 Core Contributors, almost 1/3rd of the the total voting base for > the initial elections - Marketing named 6 Core Contributors, so neither one > would be considered defunct, though if you wanted to hold a vote of all > these people, I expect you'd have a hard time getting a majority of them > to even cast ballots. Sure, because groups like SVOSUG have 2 people named, where FROSUG has more than a dozen. I guess they had a lot of +1 replys or something...:-/ Other groups probably have none. -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 IHV/OEM Group From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Wed Apr 25 19:10:49 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:10:49 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> <462FB57D.6040702@sun.com> Message-ID: <46300A29.9030608@sun.com> Alan DuBoff wrote: > On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > >> Alan DuBoff wrote: >>> Is this for community people, even if we're from a defunct community? >>> >>> Evidentally I'm involved with a community that failed to respond to >>> repeated inquiries to represent opensolaris, so we're now consider >>> defunct. I'm unclear if our input is even needed. >> >> The Device Driver community is not part of the merger under discussion, >> so why does that matter? > > I would think that SVOSUG was though. No - there is just one User Groups Community - not one for each local group. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From alan.duboff at sun.com Wed Apr 25 19:18:11 2007 From: alan.duboff at sun.com (Alan DuBoff) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <46300A29.9030608@sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> <462FB57D.6040702@sun.com> <46300A29.9030608@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Alan Coopersmith wrote: >> I would think that SVOSUG was though. > > No - there is just one User Groups Community - not one for each local > group. Oh, so SVOSUG is not a member of the User Group Community either? Probably a lack of response... -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 IHV/OEM Group From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Wed Apr 25 19:34:27 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:34:27 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> <462FB57D.6040702@sun.com> <46300A29.9030608@sun.com> Message-ID: <46300FB3.2000605@sun.com> Alan DuBoff wrote: > On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > >>> I would think that SVOSUG was though. >> >> No - there is just one User Groups Community - not one for each local >> group. > > Oh, so SVOSUG is not a member of the User Group Community either? No - you are a member of the community. SVOSUG is one of the user groups. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 25 19:35:45 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:35:45 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46301001.8080006@Sun.COM> Hi ... Miles Nordin wrote On 04/26/07 05:03,: >>>>>>"ad" == Alan DuBoff writes: > > > ad> I'm not sure if my user group community is defunct or not, I > ad> didn't responsd to any repeated inquiries there either, so it > ad> must be...:-/ > > The list I was on, ug-nycosug at opensolaris.org, just got removed. It > might have been nice to send a ``we're removing this list because > ______'' mail to the list before deleting it, but no worries, I > figured it out. :) Still checking on this, but I see from the forums Bill Rushmore pinged the list on 3/24 asking for new leaders or the group should be deleted: http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=27020&tstart=0 > I'm involved in several users' groups in the NYC area that work really > well, but I think maybe the group needs to be somewhat independent of > the vendors it discusses, like NYLUG, NYCBUG, and Unigroup are. > Sometimes vendors like IBM or Apple give these groups meeting space, > and sometimes Unigroup makes ``field trips'' to Sun, but all those > groups run their own mailing lists, web sites, and board elections. Some OpenSolaris UGs run their own lists as well. And we are perfectly happy to just list those groups with a link within the UG community. The only thing Sun is providing here is a list and page. Now, I hope to offer the individual UGs project spaces of their own so they would have more flexibility with the site. But if they want to host their own site, that's cool, too. > Further, I'm completely uncomfortable being labelled an ``OpenSolaris > Advocate,'' You wouldn't be labeled anything. The UG /Community/ and the Marketing Community would merge to become the Advocates Community (or whatever the name) which would be bigger, different, and more diverse than the previous two communities were. However, each /individual/ user group would keep its own name and become a project that the Advocates Community would then endorse. Other communities could also endorse them as well. The individual user groups not only keep their independence but they get more options and flexibility and a higher profile in the process. I would suggest that many UG leaders would become active leaders in the new merged Advocates Community, but as a practical matter probably not all. >because, although yes I do tell people why I use Solaris > and why I think it's better than Linux and BSD, I also spend a lot of > time complaining about the performance of Solaris or the frequent > misunderstandings about how much of Solaris is actually Open. I do > both. This is perfectly normal. I see this expressed on opensolaris.org lists all day of every day. >For example, I held an installfest for SXCE and tried to > convince all my friends to come, but while we were opening cases to > move jumpers for an OpenPROM upgrade, or waiting for DVDs to spin, I > talked about what it means to ``pull a Darwin'' and about all the blob > drivers creeping into Linux. > > I expect users' groups to be like cancer support groups or group > therapy, for people suffering/enjoying some large complicated device, > not for evangelism, not for ``cancer is great!'' or ``you should get > married and fight with your wife, too, like me!'' > > Calling me an ``Advocate'' or an ``Evangelist'' makes me think I'm > either a Happy Dog, or I'm collecting a paycheck. so I think maybe > these Sun ug's are not what I expected, are something different from > NYLUG/NYCBUG/Unigroup. There are no "Sun" OpenSolaris User Groups. There are only OpenSolaris User groups. Some are hosted here with a few pages and a list, and a couple have their own sites and use Google and/or Yahoo. I'm I'm sure there are a few we don't even know about. Now, as a practical matter, since the OpenSolaris community is still very young, most of the active and larger groups have a lot of Sun employees who participate and/or lead the groups. But we are starting to see that diversify, and the trend will only increase in the future. > Nor do I want the organizational structure of any users' group whose > meetings I attend to be infiltrated by salesmen. The only organizational structure we currently have in the UG community is a community space on opensolaris.org that hosts a bunch of web pages and presos and lists and one meta-list (ug-discuss) for groups to talk to each other for the leaders to talk to each other. That's it. Everyone's pretty much on their own. Part of what I'm trying to do is carve out some space in the OpenSolaris Community for potentially large numbers of people around the world, many of who are not hard core kernel developers, to participate in the community under the OpenSolaris Constitution. It's that simple. http://opensolaris.org/os/community/ogb/governance/ The only way to have a voice in how the community is run is to participate under the system we all just approved. If that's not appealing, that's fine. You have the option of hosting your own website and list for your user group, and I'll just link to you so others in the community can see you. Or, you can host your own infrastructure but also participate on ug-discuss in meta-community issues. This already occurs, actually, and it's a perfectly reasonable model that offers a great deal of flexibility. You only get a voice if you actively participate, though. No one has influence from the outside. Look at what just happened during the OpenSolaris elections. Many months ago, the OpenSolaris Tech Lead, Stephen Hahn, pinged all the community leaders to generate a list of their contributors and core contributors. The UG Community responded and offered a very large list of people from dozens and dozens of UGs around the world. But did they actually vote in the election? Very few. Influence gone. So, we have the numbers here to make a difference, and I argue we can grow /substantially/ larger. But we need to participate. It's our responsibility, actually. >This trips a big > switch in my head that helps avoid wastes of my time. The users' > groups I do attend _do_ often have talks from companies selling > something, but they have organizers that help filter sales and > marketing folk before they use my attention. I'm not aware of Sun sales guys doing sales pitches at UG meetings. But if they are, cool for them because I can only assume that the local group invited them to do so. That's their decision. I sure as heck didn't send them. Remember, the management and implementation decisions of all user groups is 100% local. Besides, if you look at the content that is being presented at most groups, I think you'll see that it's pretty technical: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/os-presentations/ In general, though, I've been a strong advocate of all groups at Sun getting involved in OpenSolaris /as long as/ they do their work from within the community and not market to the community from the outside. Everyone has to earn their way in the OpenSolaris Community and participate openly. > Now, the talks I've attended through Unigroup's trips to Sun have > certainly not been wastes of time. They've been among the best. But > to me this separation seems like it might be important to the > legitimacy of the group, and its consequent ability to retain members. > > Keeping our NYC users' groups outside Sun will also solve the problem > we had on ug-nycosug, where we had a mailing list but no actual group > to use it. At best, we had Brian Gupta and I discussing the > possibility of meeting right before the mailing list was quietly > deleted. I'm perfectly happy for the NYC UG to remain outside Sun, just as the other 50 or so groups are and have been all all along. There's no way for them to be inside Sun, actually, since our budget for this is exactly zero. Some groups choose to take advantage of some web/list hosting that the OpenSolaris community provides as a part of the opensolaris.org infrastructure, and some do their own thing on Google or Yahoo. Either way is fine with us. Regarding the NYC UG list, it was not quietly deleted. Why would you say such a thing? The former leader pinged the list asking for new leaders since he was moving. http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=27020&tstart=0 Perhaps the list was deleted as a simple, honest mistake. I'm not sure. I know Bill, he's a great guy, and I'll find out what happened. If the NYC guys want a list, you are more than free to have one. Please send me the names and OpenSolaris IDs of the people you'd like to manage the list. Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 25 19:40:16 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:40:16 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46301110.8020002@Sun.COM> Alan DuBoff wrote On 04/26/07 11:01,: > On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Miles Nordin wrote: > >>>>>>> "ad" == Alan DuBoff writes: >> >> >> ad> I'm not sure if my user group community is defunct or not, I >> ad> didn't responsd to any repeated inquiries there either, so it >> ad> must be...:-/ >> >> The list I was on, ug-nycosug at opensolaris.org, just got removed. It >> might have been nice to send a ``we're removing this list because >> ______'' mail to the list before deleting it, but no worries, I >> figured it out. :) > > > Maybe you didn't respond to a message posted in another group, I've > found out that happens. > >> I'm involved in several users' groups in the NYC area that work really >> well, but I think maybe the group needs to be somewhat independent of >> the vendors it discusses, like NYLUG, NYCBUG, and Unigroup are. >> Sometimes vendors like IBM or Apple give these groups meeting space, >> and sometimes Unigroup makes ``field trips'' to Sun, but all those >> groups run their own mailing lists, web sites, and board elections. > > > I've been involved in a few user groups myself. Maybe my user group is > gone, I'll have to go look and see if we're still in the user group > community. Chances are it's gone also, I don't remember responding to > any inquiries. The SVOSUG list is here: http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/admin/ The SVOSUG form is here: http://opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=61 The SVOSUG page is here: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/svosug/ Not sure what you are talking about, Alan. :) Jim >> Keeping our NYC users' groups outside Sun will also solve the problem >> we had on ug-nycosug, where we had a mailing list but no actual group >> to use it. At best, we had Brian Gupta and I discussing the >> possibility of meeting right before the mailing list was quietly >> deleted. > > > Yeah, we used ot have a group of folks that got together and met for > drinks to talk about Solaris, before OpenSolaris existed. A bunch of us > would get together and toss cold ones, but it wasn't funded or setup by > anyone at Sun. I guess we just didn't get the big picture or something... > > -- > > Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 IHV/OEM Group > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From brian.gupta at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 19:54:05 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:54:05 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing In-Reply-To: <46301001.8080006@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <6026664.1177556075295.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> I have heard from Miles. I have heard from Bill. For a number of valid reasons, Bill dropped the UG-NYCSOUG mailing list. (SPAM, Low traffic, and the fact he moved to Philly) He has offered to pass it on to me, or some other interested party. I am probably going to take him up on the offer, if noone else is interested. In either case, I am going to see if we can get something going here in Manhattan. cheers, brian P.S. - Is there a commercial spam filter in front of the lists? This message posted from opensolaris.org From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 25 19:54:56 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:54:56 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> <462FB57D.6040702@sun.com> Message-ID: <46301480.8040209@Sun.COM> Alan DuBoff wrote On 04/26/07 11:06,: > On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > >> Alan DuBoff wrote: >> >>> Is this for community people, even if we're from a defunct community? >>> >>> Evidentally I'm involved with a community that failed to respond to >>> repeated inquiries to represent opensolaris, so we're now consider >>> defunct. I'm unclear if our input is even needed. >> >> >> The Device Driver community is not part of the merger under discussion, >> so why does that matter? > > > I would think that SVOSUG was though. > >>> I'm not sure if my user group community is defunct or not, I didn't >>> responsd to any repeated inquiries there either, so it must be...:-/ >> >> >> The User Group community not only responded, it was a bit >> over-represented, >> naming 88 Core Contributors, almost 1/3rd of the the total voting base >> for >> the initial elections - Marketing named 6 Core Contributors, so >> neither one >> would be considered defunct, though if you wanted to hold a vote of all >> these people, I expect you'd have a hard time getting a majority of them >> to even cast ballots. > > > Sure, because groups like SVOSUG have 2 people named, where FROSUG has > more than a dozen. I guess they had a lot of +1 replys or something...:-/ > > Other groups probably have none. Regarding the contributor and core contributor issue, I pinged each individual UG list for their names as well as ug-discuss. In fact, the discussion about this on ug-discuss took place over the span of a couple of weeks and generated dozens of mails. It was quite a mess picking through all of it, as I remember. :) Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 25 19:58:28 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:58:28 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <462FB57D.6040702@sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> <462FB57D.6040702@sun.com> Message-ID: <46301554.1040408@Sun.COM> Alan Coopersmith wrote On 04/26/07 05:09,: > Alan DuBoff wrote: > >> Is this for community people, even if we're from a defunct community? >> >> Evidentally I'm involved with a community that failed to respond to >> repeated inquiries to represent opensolaris, so we're now consider >> defunct. I'm unclear if our input is even needed. > > > The Device Driver community is not part of the merger under discussion, > so why does that matter? > >> I'm not sure if my user group community is defunct or not, I didn't >> responsd to any repeated inquiries there either, so it must be...:-/ > > > The User Group community not only responded, it was a bit over-represented, > naming 88 Core Contributors, almost 1/3rd of the the total voting base for > the initial elections - Marketing named 6 Core Contributors, so neither one > would be considered defunct, though if you wanted to hold a vote of all > these people, I expect you'd have a hard time getting a majority of them > to even cast ballots. > I know, we offered a lot of names, but there was very little participation in the actual voting. I probably should have done a better job at promoting the final step. I felt a bit uncomfortable about that since I was also running for OGB at the time. Oh, well, lessons learned. Sorry about that ... Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 25 20:10:01 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:10:01 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <462F4FD9.3000702@sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> <462F4FD9.3000702@sun.com> Message-ID: <46301809.4000307@Sun.COM> joey wrote On 04/25/07 21:55,: > Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >> The OGB has started the community reorganization discussion: >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-April/000289.html >> >> And the merger of the Marketing and User Group Communities is on their >> list for consideration. We clearly have consensus here to do this >> based on this thread, but I'm not sure we have any consensus on a name >> yet. >> >> Here are the suggestions I have so far: >> >> * Ambassador Community >> * Advocates Community >> * Evangelism Community >> * Evangelization Community >> * Outreach Community >> >> I like Advocates best. The OpenSolaris Advocates Community. > > I prefer OpenSolaris Advocates Community as well. So far, we have the > Campus Ambassador and Solaris Ambassador Programs as well as Solaris > Evangelism team in Technology Outreach Group. To use the others may > introduce some confusions. > > Any comments? > Yah, I agree. If we used "Ambassador" we'd be crossing over with some Sun-specific names for most of those you list. Advocates is a good compromise ... Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Apr 25 20:28:06 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:28:06 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: <462F6F74.2030201@sun.com> References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> <462F6F74.2030201@sun.com> Message-ID: <46301C46.4070804@Sun.COM> Stephen Lau wrote On 04/26/07 00:10,: > Please also keep in mind the project naming convention discussion that's > also happening on ogb-discuss. I'd rather not have communities/projects > starting with "OpenSolaris" since it screws up the alphabetised sorting > of the list... Yah, that's fine. I agree. As the formal name it would be "Advocates Community" with the OpenSolaris left out out. Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Apr 26 00:37:14 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:37:14 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Advocates (Advocacy) Community Group Message-ID: <463056AA.50108@Sun.COM> Hey ... Although I see consensus for "Advocates" as a name for the new community group we've been discussing, I know at least a few people have mentioned "Advocacy" as an option. Either way, I think we can move on from the other names and decide between these two. Agree? So ... using "Advocates" for the moment, this is what we have right now: We have consensus to merge the User Groups Community and the Marketing Community into a new community called Advocates. Also, we have consensus to move the user groups to projects, all of which will be endorsed by the Advocates Community. Below is a draft description of the new community. I'm leaving out the "merging" stuff since it's been discussed, it's confusing, we have consensus, and it's easier to just draft something fresh. Advocates Community Group The Advocates Community Group exists to help people around the world get involved in the OpenSolaris Community. We welcome participation from people of all languages and cultures and people with all levels of technical and non-technical skills. Everyone has something to contribute. In here you will find independent user groups, presentations, news, articles, blogs, technical and non-technical content, videos and podcasts, events and conferences, metrics and graphics, swag, badges, buttons, and a variety of promotional projects. Our defining guidelines and values are simple: we embrace the OpenSolaris Principles http://opensolaris.org/os/about/ and we are a community group in good standing under the OpenSolaris Constitution http://opensolaris.org/os/community/ogb/governance/ Join us and participate ... Something like that. It's just a suggestion. Advocates Community Leaders: (names TBD) Below is an implementation sequence off the top of my head that I think we'll have to go through. See if it makes sense. Implementation Sequence: (most of which will be done manually) * Brief the OGB about our merger plan and get final approval. * Establish leaders -- merge, add new, delete old. * Merge Marketing and UG Community lists for contributors and core contributors and maintain as one list. * Draft Community Mission Statement. * Create a new community -- Advocates Community -- and migrate content. * Create a new list -- advocates at opensolaris.org -- and merge names. * Start migrating existing user groups to projects and begin the creation of new user groups under a new process based on the OGB's project creation guidelines. * Endorse all user group projects. * Establish URL re-directs for migrated content. * Migrate Marketing & UG Community content to the Advocates community. * Migrate additional content: Articles and Newsletter * Delete old Marketing & UG communities and lists. Missing anything? Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From webmink at sun.com Thu Apr 26 19:28:34 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:28:34 +0800 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Advocates (Advocacy) Community Group In-Reply-To: <463056AA.50108@Sun.COM> References: <463056AA.50108@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <76063B27-7608-4CE1-9838-74621B5E6051@sun.com> On Apr 26, 2007, at 15:37, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Hey ... > > Although I see consensus for "Advocates" as a name for the new > community group we've been discussing, I know at least a few people > have mentioned "Advocacy" as an option. Either way, I think we can > move on from the other names and decide between these two. Agree? > > So ... using "Advocates" for the moment, this is what we have right > now: While both are good, I prefer "advocacy" since it describes the work product of the community, and that's the way all the other communities are named (after their work product rather than their workers). > > We have consensus to merge the User Groups Community and the > Marketing Community into a new community called Advocates. Also, we > have consensus to move the user groups to projects, all of which > will be endorsed by the Advocates Community. > > Below is a draft description of the new community. I'm leaving out > the "merging" stuff since it's been discussed, it's confusing, we > have consensus, and it's easier to just draft something fresh. > > Advocates Community Group > > The Advocates Community Group exists to help people around the > world get involved in the OpenSolaris Community. We welcome > participation from people of all languages and cultures and people > with all levels of technical and non-technical skills. Everyone has > something to contribute. > > In here you will find independent user groups, presentations, news, > articles, blogs, technical and non-technical content, videos and > podcasts, events and conferences, metrics and graphics, swag, > badges, buttons, and a variety of promotional projects. > > Our defining guidelines and values are simple: we embrace the > OpenSolaris Principles http://opensolaris.org/os/about/ and we are > a community group in good standing under the OpenSolaris > Constitution http://opensolaris.org/os/community/ogb/governance/ > > Join us and participate ... > > Something like that. It's just a suggestion. > > Advocates Community Leaders: (names TBD) > > Below is an implementation sequence off the top of my head that I > think we'll have to go through. See if it makes sense. > > Implementation Sequence: (most of which will be done manually) > > * Brief the OGB about our merger plan and get final approval. > * Establish leaders -- merge, add new, delete old. > * Merge Marketing and UG Community lists for contributors and core > contributors and maintain as one list. > * Draft Community Mission Statement. > * Create a new community -- Advocates Community -- and migrate > content. > * Create a new list -- advocates at opensolaris.org -- and merge names. > * Start migrating existing user groups to projects and begin the > creation of new user groups under a new process based on the OGB's > project creation guidelines. > * Endorse all user group projects. > * Establish URL re-directs for migrated content. > * Migrate Marketing & UG Community content to the Advocates community. > * Migrate additional content: Articles and Newsletter > * Delete old Marketing & UG communities and lists. > > > Missing anything? Nothing springs to mind. Great job, Jim. S. From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Fri Apr 27 07:22:29 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:22:29 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Advocates (Advocacy) Community Group In-Reply-To: <76063B27-7608-4CE1-9838-74621B5E6051@sun.com> References: <463056AA.50108@Sun.COM> <76063B27-7608-4CE1-9838-74621B5E6051@sun.com> Message-ID: <46320725.7050508@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > On Apr 26, 2007, at 15:37, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >> Hey ... >> >> Although I see consensus for "Advocates" as a name for the new >> community group we've been discussing, I know at least a few people >> have mentioned "Advocacy" as an option. Either way, I think we can >> move on from the other names and decide between these two. Agree? >> >> So ... using "Advocates" for the moment, this is what we have right now: > > While both are good, I prefer "advocacy" since it describes the work > product of the community, and that's the way all the other communities > are named (after their work product rather than their workers). Works for me. If no one objects, I'll send a note to the OGB in the next day or so and let them know we want to do this. Jim From benr at cuddletech.com Sat Apr 28 16:58:12 2007 From: benr at cuddletech.com (Ben Rockwood) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 16:58:12 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] MySQL Users Conference 2007 Wrap Up Message-ID: <4633DF94.6070609@cuddletech.com> The 2007 MySQL Users Conference in Santa Clara has come and gone. It was a good event again for us this year. Two demo stations were present in the booth, one for MySQL/DTrace using Chime, another for Solaris/OpenSolaris. As usual for the show, users tend to be chatty and less interested in hands-on demos. While the focus is on functionality of OpenSolaris, the show is much more about Sun in a wholistic sense of single-vendor solutions. The demo's were on Ultra40's and a T2000 was open for examination.... people tend to be drawn in by the hardware, especially an open chassis, and then are engaged in conversation starting with the hardware solution presented, other hardware solutions available, advantages of end-to-end support covering hardware, OS, software stack, and storage, and then up onto support for Linux/Windows, and finally into Solaris being open and the community built around it. This approach is very useful in places where people might not immediately understand Sun's presence. A similar approach was used at LinuxWorld 2006 thanks to the Thumper chassis provided by Bill Moore, although there people were more interested in OS features like ZFS and DTrace that they'd heard of. We only got a handful of actual developers, and in these cases the discussion was geared toward feature that would benefit them within OpenSolaris, namely: - Zones for parallel deployments of production/staging/development - ZFS for point in time snapshots, clones, and data integrity to aid in deployment and potential rollbacks without re-deployment. - DTrace for production debugging and analytics - SMF for application management - The Coolstack AMP solution as evidence that Sun is 100% behind AMP - AMD/SPARC solutions tailored to their applications strengths This year I brought a lot of experience to the show with me from my work at Joyent. I now can provide real-world examples of how these elements are in play with our and our customers deployments as well as being able to suggestion strategies for getting started with OpenSolaris using Sun Startup Essentials and Joyent Accelerators for shops that want to leverage OpenSolaris but may not have resources or time to build out a proper deployment platform. Citing real world deployments really helped drive home the reality of what OpenSolaris brings as well as show that people ARE deploying on OpenSolaris... its not just marketing hype. Show attendance was, by the numbers, higher than ever, but the show floor was sparse. People trickle in during breaks, but the expo floor isn't the hub of the show like so many others. The biggest surge was during the Tuesday night reception when beer brings people in. Our floor positioning wasn't nearly as good as it was last year when we were on the main entry way with MySQL's booth kitty-corner from us. One bit that did help was the relationships formed last year with MySQL's Mikel and Monty. Both of these guys were in or around our booth quite a bit and that in turn brought people in to see why these guys were spending so much time in the Sun booth. A small controversy started to brew when I announced in my blog frustration over the fact that the MySQL Probes that we were demo'ing weren't available to the public. Apparently there is a re-newed effort to break down barriers to make this happen. I'm thankful for the swag we had on hand. We were handing out OpenSolaris shirts (the new design is sweeeeet!) and SX:DE DVD's. My only complaints was that the DVD's were in a card-board sleeve with "Temple of the Sun" advertising on the front, so people thought they were getting a game, not an SX:DE DVD... I handled this by breaking open the packaging and showing them the disk when handing it to them. The next show on the calender is the big one, JavaOne. I'm looking forward to the show and everyone that'll be there. Each year JavaOne and LinuxWorld tend to be our big shows, but a continued presence at smaller shows like MySQL UC is still essential to getting the word out and keeping our presence within the view of our target audience. Thanks to Steve Quan, Jenny Chen, and Chris Baker in the booth, as well as Laura Ramsey on the OS Marketing side, for pulling off another great show in the Bay Area. benr. From griffous at griffous.net Mon Apr 30 02:34:40 2007 From: griffous at griffous.net (Jonathan Wheeler) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:34:40 -0000 Subject: [osol-mktg] Solaris evangelist seeking ideas for number plate Message-ID: <4635B821.50905@griffous.net> Hi Folks, As an avid Solaris fan, I've decided to purchase a personalised plate for my car to show off to all motorists just which OS is the best in the world... Over here, we have a 6 digit limit, and I couldn't come up with any meaningful abbreviations for Solaris, so I settled for SunOS. To be a bit clearer on this, I can add some text, and I'm after some suggestions for the best text to use around the plate. Attached is what I've ordered, but I still can change it within 30 days, and I've started to think that I can improve upon my original design. *Solaris 10* I've started off with "Solaris 10, The world's most advanced OS", but lets face it, Solaris >10 _will_ come out, making it the 2nd best OS! :p, (and I'll look a bit silly in a few years) Also, looking at my /etc/motd (suggesting a October 2007 release) I'm somewhat nervous that this will happen sooner, rather then later. It would be great if someone could comment on this, but I'm guessing there are legal ramifications on speculating on release dates for me - even for something as innocent as this. *Sun Solaris* With all this in mind, I could go for a heading something like "Sun Solaris", to keep it version agnostic (and timeless), but I don't quite feel right in suggesting that Solaris is only Sun's - after all OpenSolaris exists to celebrate this new age of openness and collaboration that we in the OpenSolaris community all love so much!! *Solaris 11* I could use "Solaris 11", and wait a few months before putting the plate on the car (though there is some clear relevance even now), but there are no guarantees that this is the name that will be eventually used by Nevada, and I'm guessing that there are the same legal ramifications in asking that question too... Though please, if you can comment, please do so! *Solaris* Merely Solaris in the text seems insufficient, so I'm open to some ideas by you wonderful marketing folks. Any ideas that you'd like to share? I really feel this will be a great way of spreading the word around the streets of Auckland - but I want to make sure I do it right. Jonathan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1-SUNOS MP.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 44042 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brian.gupta at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 11:31:22 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:31:22 -0000 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: reference distribution In-Reply-To: <462E2840.5030802@sun.com> References: <3808424.1177412988799.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> <462E2840.5030802@sun.com> Message-ID: <5b5090780704241131i74754da6h9f4267676311ee86@mail.gmail.com> Let me restate what I was trying to get across. Might we want to wait until we have an Open Source clone of Solaris Express. (As opposed to picking one of the community distributions that are significantly different than Solaris Express.) My initial understanding was that the OpenSolaris "standard" distribution should match as closely as possible to Solaris express. Thanks, - Brian On 4/24/07, Stephen Lau wrote: > > Brian Gupta wrote: > > Wouldn't it be premature to start distributing this before we have a > complete unencumbered "official" distro? > > What is "official"? We don't have an "official" distribution at all > right now, that's what I'm proposing we establish. > > -steve > > -- > stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net > opensolaris // solaris kernel development > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carton at Ivy.NET Wed Apr 25 13:03:29 2007 From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:03:29 -0000 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Community Consolidation -- Marketing & UGs In-Reply-To: (Alan DuBoff's message of "Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:12:24 -0700 (PDT)") References: <4611C919.7050608@Sun.COM> <4615FDDD.8080603@sun.com> <4616079B.7060501@Sun.COM> <462EFF9F.1060608@Sun.COM> Message-ID: >>>>> "ad" == Alan DuBoff writes: ad> I'm not sure if my user group community is defunct or not, I ad> didn't responsd to any repeated inquiries there either, so it ad> must be...:-/ The list I was on, ug-nycosug at opensolaris.org, just got removed. It might have been nice to send a ``we're removing this list because ______'' mail to the list before deleting it, but no worries, I figured it out. :) I'm involved in several users' groups in the NYC area that work really well, but I think maybe the group needs to be somewhat independent of the vendors it discusses, like NYLUG, NYCBUG, and Unigroup are. Sometimes vendors like IBM or Apple give these groups meeting space, and sometimes Unigroup makes ``field trips'' to Sun, but all those groups run their own mailing lists, web sites, and board elections. Further, I'm completely uncomfortable being labelled an ``OpenSolaris Advocate,'' because, although yes I do tell people why I use Solaris and why I think it's better than Linux and BSD, I also spend a lot of time complaining about the performance of Solaris or the frequent misunderstandings about how much of Solaris is actually Open. I do both. For example, I held an installfest for SXCE and tried to convince all my friends to come, but while we were opening cases to move jumpers for an OpenPROM upgrade, or waiting for DVDs to spin, I talked about what it means to ``pull a Darwin'' and about all the blob drivers creeping into Linux. I expect users' groups to be like cancer support groups or group therapy, for people suffering/enjoying some large complicated device, not for evangelism, not for ``cancer is great!'' or ``you should get married and fight with your wife, too, like me!'' Calling me an ``Advocate'' or an ``Evangelist'' makes me think I'm either a Happy Dog, or I'm collecting a paycheck. so I think maybe these Sun ug's are not what I expected, are something different from NYLUG/NYCBUG/Unigroup. Nor do I want the organizational structure of any users' group whose meetings I attend to be infiltrated by salesmen. This trips a big switch in my head that helps avoid wastes of my time. The users' groups I do attend _do_ often have talks from companies selling something, but they have organizers that help filter sales and marketing folk before they use my attention. Now, the talks I've attended through Unigroup's trips to Sun have certainly not been wastes of time. They've been among the best. But to me this separation seems like it might be important to the legitimacy of the group, and its consequent ability to retain members. Keeping our NYC users' groups outside Sun will also solve the problem we had on ug-nycosug, where we had a mailing list but no actual group to use it. At best, we had Brian Gupta and I discussing the possibility of meeting right before the mailing list was quietly deleted. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 304 bytes Desc: not available URL: