From Evgeni.Ilyin at sun.com Mon Jun 4 09:20:45 2007 From: Evgeni.Ilyin at sun.com (Evgeni Ilyin) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:20:45 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] OpenSolaris - materials that don't need to be translated Message-ID: <6010256.1180974556532.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Hello, I summon to the common wisdom, knowledge and the sense of fun. While running OpenSolaris and Sun Studio community at http://community.livejournal.com/ru_opensolaris/ we've realized that posts with media materials that don't need to be translated to understand appreciated as posts written on native language. You guys are more experienced with OpenSolaris communities and have bugger knowledge luggage and probably have something like Solaris related video clips, flash and pictures that impressed you or make you smile and can help us with links that we can post for those who doesn't speak english very well. I also think that this would be interesting for all user groups and we can share it. Thanks in advance. Gene. http://blogs.sun.com/esi This message posted from opensolaris.org From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Tue Jun 5 18:51:37 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:51:37 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana Message-ID: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and User Group communities/ hey ... I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html Agree? Disagree? Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris -- From brian.gupta at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 19:24:29 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (brian.gupta at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 22:24:29 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <5b5090780706051924y543d6b93i3548d306fa6550c3@mail.gmail.com> Agree From Joe.G at Sun.COM Tue Jun 5 20:02:27 2007 From: Joe.G at Sun.COM (Joe G (Joseph George)) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:32:27 +0530 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <6E530B71-2897-4364-89D4-23EBF39ECDFE@Sun.COM> Agree. ~Joe On 06-Jun-07, at 7:21 AM, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing > and User Group communities/ > > > hey ... > > I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User > Group Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail > list can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved > in this project since we stand to benefit from its potential > success. I've suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/ > 000819.html > > Agree? Disagree? > > Jim > -- > Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris > -- > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org -------------------------------- Joe G (Joseph George) Joe.G at Sun.COM http://www.blogs.sun.com/josephgeorge http://www.belenix.org From Terri.Molini at Sun.COM Tue Jun 5 20:21:47 2007 From: Terri.Molini at Sun.COM (Terri Molini) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:21:47 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4666284B.7080903@sun.com> Agree. -Terri Molini Jim Grisanzio wrote: > /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and > User Group communities/ > > > hey ... > > I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group > Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list > can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this > project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've > suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html > > Agree? Disagree? > > Jim -- Terri Molini Sun Microsystems, Inc. Global Communications 408/404-4976 office/fax; x6-9968 408/406-9021 mobile IM: tmolini -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stevel at sun.com Tue Jun 5 21:19:34 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 21:19:34 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> I'm not a core contributor to either community, so my vote is meaningless - but as long as the distribution doesn't call itself "OpenSolaris" as has been tossed around, I agree in principle. The goals and objectives of the project are worthy and good (for whatever my opinion is worth), I'm just wary of something that will attempt to overload and redefine what "OpenSolaris" is. cheers, steve On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 10:51:37AM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and > User Group communities/ > > > hey ... > > I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group > Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list > can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this > project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've > suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html > > Agree? Disagree? > > Jim > -- > Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris > -- > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Tue Jun 5 21:54:54 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 23:54:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and User > Group communities/ > > > hey ... > > I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group > Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list can be > set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this project since > we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've suggested this to Glynn > on the OGB list: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html > > Agree? Disagree? Agree. I do want to note here that I'm definitely in the camp with those concerned about the project wanting to use the designation OpenSolaris Distro. (Should that designation even be claimable by a project? If yes, does the Indiana project get to claim it?) But working out tricky issues like that is one of the big reasons the Indiana project urgently needs its own website space and mailing list. So an enthusiastic thumbs up from me. Eric From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 01:11:57 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:11:57 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> I agree on sponsoring. Concerning nomenclature: if I understand concerns about using the name "OpenSolaris" as part / all of the name of a disto, they are 2-fold: i. Deprecates (unfairly) other OpenSolaris distros, and the excellent work which has gone into creating them ii. Redefines what OpenSolaris is, from a code base and community to code base, community and a bootable OS, to the point where the name "OpenSolaris" is loaded with too much meaning. From my point of view, if we are talking about attracting users, the second is not a concern. While we may have consistently said that OpenSolaris is not a bootable operating system, but a code base and a community, that does not mean that this could not or should not change. Further, the expectation remains that there be a concise answer to the question, "how do I boot OpenSolaris?". For that reason I am more concerned about the status of other distros. Patrick Stephen Lau wrote: > I'm not a core contributor to either community, so my vote is > meaningless - but as long as the distribution doesn't call itself > "OpenSolaris" as has been tossed around, I agree in principle. > > The goals and objectives of the project are worthy and good (for > whatever my opinion is worth), I'm just wary of something that will > attempt to overload and redefine what "OpenSolaris" is. > > cheers, > steve > > On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 10:51:37AM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: >> /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and >> User Group communities/ >> >> >> hey ... >> >> I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group >> Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: >> >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html >> >> The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list >> can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this >> project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've >> suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: >> >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html >> >> Agree? Disagree? >> >> Jim >> -- >> Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > From webmink at sun.com Wed Jun 6 03:55:58 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:55:58 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. That is not here. Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it something else. S. On Jun 6, 2007, at 05:19, Stephen Lau wrote: > I'm not a core contributor to either community, so my vote is > meaningless - but as long as the distribution doesn't call itself > "OpenSolaris" as has been tossed around, I agree in principle. > > The goals and objectives of the project are worthy and good (for > whatever my opinion is worth), I'm just wary of something that will > attempt to overload and redefine what "OpenSolaris" is. > > cheers, > steve > > On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 10:51:37AM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: >> /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing >> and >> User Group communities/ >> >> >> hey ... >> >> I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User >> Group >> Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: >> >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/ >> 000555.html >> >> The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail >> list >> can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this >> project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've >> suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: >> >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/ >> 000819.html >> >> Agree? Disagree? >> >> Jim >> -- >> Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > > -- > stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net > opensolaris // solaris kernel development > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From Casper.Dik at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 04:14:40 2007 From: Casper.Dik at Sun.COM (Casper.Dik at Sun.COM) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:14:40 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> >I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. > >This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >That is not here. > >Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed >within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris >distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it >something else. You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution mechanisms? Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions went elsewhere? Casper From laurent at elanor.org Wed Jun 6 04:18:01 2007 From: laurent at elanor.org (Laurent Blume) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:18:01 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <466697E9.5020900@elanor.org> Simon Phipps a ?crit : > I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. > > This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It > should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. > That is not here. Agreed with that. > Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed > within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris > distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it something > else. What is the OpenSolaris community in that case? Does that mean that the current distros are being done by people somehow outside it? Honestly, I've noted that there is already quie a confusion about what ?OpenSolaris? is. Many people I know, who are not (yet) Sun users, do believe it's an actual OS similar to Solaris, but, well, ?Open?, more Linux-like, maybe. Some also seem to think that SX <=> OpenSolaris. Or that Nexenta <=> OpenSolaris. I've seen threads on the OS.o lists about ?running things on OpenSolaris? (which meant ?running things on all distros based on OpenSolaris?). Anyway, unless a very, very strong communication effort is made to clarify that, there's no way us contributors can influence what the rest of the world will call us. Remember that today, Linux <=> Red Hat for many people. And this is not something that I would like to happen in our community, one distro becoming the beacon of all attention from the outside. Laurent -- / Leader de Projet & Communaut? | I'm working, but not speaking for \ I18N/L10N http://opensolaris.org | Bull Services http://www.bull.com / FOSUG http://guses.org | From Alexey.Ushakov at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 04:31:07 2007 From: Alexey.Ushakov at Sun.COM (Alexey Ushakov) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:31:07 +0400 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: <46669AFB.9070602@sun.com> Hello, I'm novice in ug-discuss and opensolaris-mktg, so would like to ask if someone could clarify what does sponsorship of the opensource project mean. Actually, I'm working in J2SE and we are also have a bunch of requests for sponsorship but so far we didn't get clear explanation of the meaning of this term. So, probably because OpenSolaris started long time ago there is some terminology that we should know when dealing with the community. Best Regards, Alexey Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: >> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >> >> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >> That is not here. >> >> Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed >> within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris >> distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it >> something else. >> > > You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions > are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this > by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution > mechanisms? > > Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download > and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions > went elsewhere? > > Casper > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org > From webmink at sun.com Wed Jun 6 04:47:55 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:47:55 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: <6A655F9B-DDF8-4572-8B7D-F97715730B1F@sun.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:14, Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: > You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions > are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this > by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution > mechanisms? Yes, and most importantly their own discussion mechanisms (if any). The actual tasks of defining and constructing the distributions (a combination of editorial decision and engineering activity) are conducted elsewhere than opensolaris.org by people who are indeed members of the OpenSolaris community. The main novelty of the various proposals for an OpenSolaris distribution including the Indiana proposal is to have at least one distribution constructed collaboratively inside the community. I believe the key factor here is transparent decision-making. > Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download > and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions > went elsewhere? I believe that the resources necessary for building a distribution are available on opensolaris.org, although the resources needed to sustain it (mainly a repository for hosting the package system I think) are not. It's perfectly possible some tuning and refactoring will be necessary as whatever system we all create gains momentum. S. From Tim.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 05:30:21 2007 From: Tim.Foster at Sun.COM (Tim Foster) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:30:21 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> Hi all, On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 11:55 +0100, Simon Phipps wrote: > This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It > should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. > That is not here. So this is a tough one. Imho - there are multiple communities on opensolaris.org that could make a claim to host Indiana, but it's hard to see any one engineering community where it would live. http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/#portal So given that no engineering-focused community fits the bill, I think that Marketing/User-groups/Advocacy is probably the *best* place to host the project - one of Indiana's goals is to get more people using OpenSolaris, and that sure as heck sounds like Advocacy to me! Otherwise, if folks disagree with that sentiment, could we please quickly get a "Distributions Community" formed and get this show on the road ? cheers, tim -- Tim Foster, Sun Microsystems Inc, Solaris Engineering Ops http://blogs.sun.com/timf From webmink at sun.com Wed Jun 6 05:43:18 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:43:18 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> Message-ID: <53181A46-4F60-461F-8DFD-9F770D0911B3@sun.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 13:30, Tim Foster wrote: > Otherwise, if folks disagree with that sentiment, could we please > quickly get a "Distributions Community" formed and get this show on > the > road ? Would be a fine thing, unless the Advocacy community is going to be designated the time-limited "holding area" for all new ideas. S. From venky.tv at sun.com Wed Jun 6 05:46:10 2007 From: venky.tv at sun.com (Venky) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:16:10 +0530 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <6A655F9B-DDF8-4572-8B7D-F97715730B1F@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <6A655F9B-DDF8-4572-8B7D-F97715730B1F@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070606124610.GK4377@spikesource.com> > >You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions > >are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this > >by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution > >mechanisms? > > Yes, and most importantly their own discussion mechanisms (if any). > The actual tasks of defining and constructing the distributions (a > combination of editorial decision and engineering activity) are > conducted elsewhere than opensolaris.org by people who are indeed > members of the OpenSolaris community. > > The main novelty of the various proposals for an OpenSolaris > distribution including the Indiana proposal is to have at least one > distribution constructed collaboratively inside the community. I > believe the key factor here is transparent decision-making. All or most of the current distributions have transparent decision-making. They just don't happen to have dedicated lists on opensolaris.org. Most of the decisions for BeleniX happen on the ug-bosug at opensolaris.org list, for instance. If all it takes to become an official OpenSolaris distribution is to have a dedicated mailing list, maybe the BeleniX team should ask one. Come to think of it, it might be a good idea anyway to have distro-specific mailing lists on opensolaris.org. > >Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download > >and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions > >went elsewhere? > > I believe that the resources necessary for building a distribution > are available on opensolaris.org, although the resources needed to > sustain it (mainly a repository for hosting the package system I > think) are not. It's perfectly possible some tuning and refactoring > will be necessary as whatever system we all create gains momentum. Most of the distributions (SchilliX, BeleniX and probably even Nexenta) started before the OpenSolaris website was capable of supporting them. That shouldn't make them any less worthy of being called OpenSolaris distributions. Venky. From Tim.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 06:03:28 2007 From: Tim.Foster at Sun.COM (Tim Foster) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 14:03:28 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <53181A46-4F60-461F-8DFD-9F770D0911B3@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> <53181A46-4F60-461F-8DFD-9F770D0911B3@sun.com> Message-ID: <1181135008.13542.45.camel@haiiro> On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 13:43 +0100, Simon Phipps wrote: > On Jun 6, 2007, at 13:30, Tim Foster wrote: > > Otherwise, if folks disagree with that sentiment, could we please > > quickly get a "Distributions Community" formed and get this show on > > the road ? > > Would be a fine thing, unless the Advocacy community is going to be > designated the time-limited "holding area" for all new ideas. Works for me. - actually digging into the constitution (I know, sorry) I see mention of an "At-large Community" in section 7.3[1] - does that have the ability to create a project space on opensolaris.org ? Regardless, giving the guys somewhere, anywhere, to go work on Indiana in public view, would be a good thing, whoever ends up sponsoring them eventually (cf. my previous "Get a room!" comment). cheers, tim [1] http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/ogb/governance/#ARTICLE_VII.__Community_Groups -- Tim Foster, Sun Microsystems Inc, Solaris Engineering Ops http://blogs.sun.com/timf From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 06:38:58 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:38:58 -0500 Subject: Project Indiana Marketing was: [osol-mktg] 2nd Anniversary time In-Reply-To: <465A4995.6090404@Sun.COM> References: <46378E57.2060402@sun.com> <1178618894.3806.55.camel@sr1-edub-04> <464E0EE8.8040304@sun.com> <465A4995.6090404@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4666B8F2.3050509@sun.com> I've been meaning to ask a question about the anniversary and the awards/accomplishments - would anyone be in support of doing these at the end of the calendar year as opposed to the end of the anniversary year? I think it would be nice to have "Best of 2007" awards, and having them in June is a bit odd. (I realize I'm really late on suggesting, sorry). Sara Jim Grisanzio wrote: > We accomplished a great deal this year, and I've already been > collecting stuff to list. I'll start working on v2 of the yearly > community roll up and circulate it. Last year's list looked like this: > http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=9941&tstart=0 > > Jim From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 07:01:25 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:01:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: > >> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >> >> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >> That is not here. >> >> Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed >> within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris >> distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it >> something else. > > You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions > are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this > by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution > mechanisms? > > Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download > and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions > went elsewhere? Casper's right. Nexenta, BeleniX and other existing distros are, by all rights and intentions, projects of and by the OpenSolaris community. The Nexenta project leadership sees it that way too: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2007-March/026547.html Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 07:08:42 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:08:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Tim Foster wrote: > > ... > Otherwise, if folks disagree with that sentiment, could we please > quickly get a "Distributions Community" formed and get this show on the > road ? +1000 From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 07:08:53 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:08:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <20070606124610.GK4377@spikesource.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <6A655F9B-DDF8-4572-8B7D-F97715730B1F@sun.com> <20070606124610.GK4377@spikesource.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Venky wrote: >>> You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions >>> are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this >>> by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution >>> mechanisms? >> >> Yes, and most importantly their own discussion mechanisms (if any). >> The actual tasks of defining and constructing the distributions (a >> combination of editorial decision and engineering activity) are >> conducted elsewhere than opensolaris.org by people who are indeed >> members of the OpenSolaris community. >> >> The main novelty of the various proposals for an OpenSolaris >> distribution including the Indiana proposal is to have at least one >> distribution constructed collaboratively inside the community. I >> believe the key factor here is transparent decision-making. > > All or most of the current distributions have transparent > decision-making. They just don't happen to have dedicated lists > on opensolaris.org. Most of the decisions for BeleniX happen on > the ug-bosug at opensolaris.org list, for instance. If all it takes > to become an official OpenSolaris distribution is to have a > dedicated mailing list, maybe the BeleniX team should ask one. > > Come to think of it, it might be a good idea anyway to have > distro-specific mailing lists on opensolaris.org. > >>> Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download >>> and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions >>> went elsewhere? >> >> I believe that the resources necessary for building a distribution >> are available on opensolaris.org, although the resources needed to >> sustain it (mainly a repository for hosting the package system I >> think) are not. It's perfectly possible some tuning and refactoring >> will be necessary as whatever system we all create gains momentum. > > Most of the distributions (SchilliX, BeleniX and probably even > Nexenta) started before the OpenSolaris website was capable of > supporting them. That shouldn't make them any less worthy of > being called OpenSolaris distributions. +1000 (on all counts). Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 07:10:54 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:10:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> Message-ID: NB: Installation and Packaging Community also said they'd be happy to sponsor Indiana: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=32261&tstart=0 --Eric On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Tim Foster wrote: > Hi all, > > On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 11:55 +0100, Simon Phipps wrote: >> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >> That is not here. > > So this is a tough one. Imho - there are multiple communities on > opensolaris.org that could make a claim to host Indiana, but it's hard > to see any one engineering community where it would live. > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/#portal > > > So given that no engineering-focused community fits the bill, I think > that Marketing/User-groups/Advocacy is probably the *best* place to host > the project - one of Indiana's goals is to get more people using > OpenSolaris, and that sure as heck sounds like Advocacy to me! > > Otherwise, if folks disagree with that sentiment, could we please > quickly get a "Distributions Community" formed and get this show on the > road ? > > cheers, > tim > > -- > Tim Foster, Sun Microsystems Inc, Solaris Engineering Ops > http://blogs.sun.com/timf > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > > From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Wed Jun 6 07:20:46 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 07:20:46 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> Patrick Finch wrote: > I agree on sponsoring. > > Concerning nomenclature: if I understand concerns about using the name > "OpenSolaris" as part / all of the name of a disto, they are 2-fold: > > i. Deprecates (unfairly) other OpenSolaris distros, and the excellent > work which has gone into creating them > > ii. Redefines what OpenSolaris is, from a code base and community to > code base, community and a bootable OS, to the point where the name > "OpenSolaris" is loaded with too much meaning. iii. Makes it clear that this distro is specially blessed by Sun, and not a pure community-driven project, since only Sun has the ability to grant use of the OpenSolaris trademark this way. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 07:24:41 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 23:24:41 +0900 Subject: Project Indiana Marketing was: [osol-mktg] 2nd Anniversary time In-Reply-To: <4666B8F2.3050509@sun.com> References: <46378E57.2060402@sun.com> <1178618894.3806.55.camel@sr1-edub-04> <464E0EE8.8040304@sun.com> <465A4995.6090404@Sun.COM> <4666B8F2.3050509@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666C3A9.2090605@sun.com> Sure, I think that's fine. I like the notion of a year end "best of" bit. I think the awards are important to do annually. The awards are not necessarily tied to an accomplishments document, though, so I'm still going to work on a wrap up. However, unlike last year, I think I'm going to maintain the document all year long so it's always up to date. I'll put it in the Advocacy Community somewhere -- probably along with the Newsletter so all the data is there in one place. I promised some people a status report on the community, so I want to get that done and then it's easier to just maintain a little bit at a time. So, fine by me doing awards at the end of the year. Jim Sara Dornsife wrote: > I've been meaning to ask a question about the anniversary and the > awards/accomplishments - would anyone be in support of doing these at > the end of the calendar year as opposed to the end of the anniversary > year? I think it would be nice to have "Best of 2007" awards, and having > them in June is a bit odd. (I realize I'm really late on suggesting, > sorry). > Sara > > > Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >> We accomplished a great deal this year, and I've already been >> collecting stuff to list. I'll start working on v2 of the yearly >> community roll up and circulate it. Last year's list looked like this: >> http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=9941&tstart=0 >> >> Jim > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From webmink at sun.com Wed Jun 6 07:36:56 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:36:56 +0100 Subject: Project Indiana Marketing was: [osol-mktg] 2nd Anniversary time In-Reply-To: <4666C3A9.2090605@sun.com> References: <46378E57.2060402@sun.com> <1178618894.3806.55.camel@sr1-edub-04> <464E0EE8.8040304@sun.com> <465A4995.6090404@Sun.COM> <4666B8F2.3050509@sun.com> <4666C3A9.2090605@sun.com> Message-ID: <4EB8420F-6282-4D9B-89F1-D5F7E39C401A@sun.com> I agree, this is a fine idea. I suggest "launching" the project to deliver the awards on the anniversary date though - 6 months should be plenty of time to get all the details sorted, and it means we can all still celebrate the fact awards will be given. S. On Jun 6, 2007, at 15:24, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Sure, I think that's fine. > > I like the notion of a year end "best of" bit. I think the awards > are important to do annually. The awards are not necessarily tied > to an accomplishments document, though, so I'm still going to work > on a wrap up. However, unlike last year, I think I'm going to > maintain the document all year long so it's always up to date. I'll > put it in the Advocacy Community somewhere -- probably along with > the Newsletter so all the data is there in one place. I promised > some people a status report on the community, so I want to get that > done and then it's easier to just maintain a little bit at a time. > > So, fine by me doing awards at the end of the year. > > Jim > > > > > > Sara Dornsife wrote: > >> I've been meaning to ask a question about the anniversary and the >> awards/accomplishments - would anyone be in support of doing these >> at the end of the calendar year as opposed to the end of the >> anniversary year? I think it would be nice to have "Best of 2007" >> awards, and having them in June is a bit odd. (I realize I'm >> really late on suggesting, sorry). >> Sara >> Jim Grisanzio wrote: >>> We accomplished a great deal this year, and I've already been >>> collecting stuff to list. I'll start working on v2 of the yearly >>> community roll up and circulate it. Last year's list looked like >>> this: >>> http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=9941&tstart=0 >>> >>> Jim >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 07:39:08 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:39:08 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by Sun" mutually exclusive? Patrick Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Patrick Finch wrote: >> I agree on sponsoring. >> >> Concerning nomenclature: if I understand concerns about using the name >> "OpenSolaris" as part / all of the name of a disto, they are 2-fold: >> >> i. Deprecates (unfairly) other OpenSolaris distros, and the excellent >> work which has gone into creating them >> >> ii. Redefines what OpenSolaris is, from a code base and community to >> code base, community and a bootable OS, to the point where the name >> "OpenSolaris" is loaded with too much meaning. > > iii. Makes it clear that this distro is specially blessed by Sun, and > not a pure community-driven project, since only Sun has the ability to > grant use of the OpenSolaris trademark this way. > From laurent at elanor.org Wed Jun 6 07:58:09 2007 From: laurent at elanor.org (Laurent Blume) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:58:09 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666CB81.9040608@elanor.org> Patrick Finch a ?crit : > Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by > Sun" mutually exclusive? Some rewriting would be needed there: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/ ?We are independent. Decisions within the project are made independently from those concerning Sun's business. Sun's management controls the business aspects of the Solaris product, but will not exert undue influence within the OpenSolaris community.? ?The main difference between the OpenSolaris project and the Solaris Operating System is that the OpenSolaris project does not provide an end-user product or complete distribution.? I'm not against translating it again. But since this is quite the definition of what OpenSolaris *is*, some thinking is needed there before starting such a distro. Laurent -- / Leader de Projet & Communaut? | I'm working, but not speaking for \ I18N/L10N http://opensolaris.org | Bull Services http://www.bull.com / FOSUG http://guses.org | From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:12:47 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:12:47 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666CEEF.2000208@sun.com> Not completely, but they are somewhat in the sense that no other "pure community driven project" (e.g.: Belenix, Nexenta, Schillix, Martux, etc.) can call themselves "OpenSolaris" the same way Indiana can. So in that respect, Indiana would have been 'specially blessed' (not necessarily 'especially blessed') cheers, steve Patrick Finch wrote: > Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by > Sun" mutually exclusive? > > Patrick > > > Alan Coopersmith wrote: >> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> I agree on sponsoring. >>> >>> Concerning nomenclature: if I understand concerns about using the >>> name "OpenSolaris" as part / all of the name of a disto, they are >>> 2-fold: >>> >>> i. Deprecates (unfairly) other OpenSolaris distros, and the excellent >>> work which has gone into creating them >>> >>> ii. Redefines what OpenSolaris is, from a code base and community to >>> code base, community and a bootable OS, to the point where the name >>> "OpenSolaris" is loaded with too much meaning. >> >> iii. Makes it clear that this distro is specially blessed by Sun, and >> not a pure community-driven project, since only Sun has the ability to >> grant use of the OpenSolaris trademark this way. >> -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:14:45 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:14:45 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. > > This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It > should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. > That is not here. But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? > Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed > within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris > distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it something > else. But there isn't exactly one distribution... we have 5 that I count (not including Indiana). Indiana will only be called "the OpenSolaris distribution" if people insist on it. That's what I'm opposed to. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 08:18:56 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:18:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Patrick Finch wrote: > Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by Sun" > mutually exclusive? My take is that Alan's simply saying that in _this_ case (which is to say, the direction the Indiana project appears to be headed) they are both true[1]. So no, definitely not, they don't have to be mututally exclusive. Eric 1. And FWIW, I agree: http://blogs.sun.com/eric_boutilier/entry/dear_ian#comments From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:25:17 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:25:17 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <6A655F9B-DDF8-4572-8B7D-F97715730B1F@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <6A655F9B-DDF8-4572-8B7D-F97715730B1F@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666D1DD.70801@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:14, Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: > >> You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions >> are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this >> by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution >> mechanisms? > > Yes, and most importantly their own discussion mechanisms (if any). The > actual tasks of defining and constructing the distributions (a > combination of editorial decision and engineering activity) are > conducted elsewhere than opensolaris.org by people who are indeed > members of the OpenSolaris community. > > The main novelty of the various proposals for an OpenSolaris > distribution including the Indiana proposal is to have at least one > distribution constructed collaboratively inside the community. I believe > the key factor here is transparent decision-making. I don't agree that just because they coordinate their work on other sites they aren't considered part of the community. Talks on all the various distributions were given at the OpenSolaris Developers Conference last year. All the various distribution contributors and creators participate via opensolaris.org mailing lists. Speaking as one of the tonic team members, we simply didn't (don't?) have the infrastructure needs distributions require. We didn't have SCM until recently. We still don't have project bug tracking. We don't provide a way for projects/communities to setup their own mailing lists without bugging Eric. If I were any of the other distributions, I would have done the same thing. Given the state of the current infrastructure, I don't feel Indiana would fare any better. How will Indiana do distribution wide bug tracking? >> Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download >> and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions >> went elsewhere? > > I believe that the resources necessary for building a distribution are > available on opensolaris.org, although the resources needed to sustain > it (mainly a repository for hosting the package system I think) are not. > It's perfectly possible some tuning and refactoring will be necessary as > whatever system we all create gains momentum. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:26:33 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:26:33 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <53181A46-4F60-461F-8DFD-9F770D0911B3@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> <53181A46-4F60-461F-8DFD-9F770D0911B3@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666D229.3080707@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 13:30, Tim Foster wrote: > >> Otherwise, if folks disagree with that sentiment, could we please >> quickly get a "Distributions Community" formed and get this show on the >> road ? > > Would be a fine thing, unless the Advocacy community is going to be > designated the time-limited "holding area" for all new ideas. All someone needs to do is propose the Distributions Community.... as of yet, none has been officially proposed to the OGB. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From webmink at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:27:11 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:27:11 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> Message-ID: <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: >> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. >> It should be in a place where co-development engineers will >> participate. That is not here. > > But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of > non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd suggest though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate venue. > >> Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed >> within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the >> OpenSolaris distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to >> name it something else. > > But there isn't exactly one distribution... we have 5 that I count > (not including Indiana). Indiana will only be called "the > OpenSolaris distribution" if people insist on it. That's what I'm > opposed to. Right now there exactly zero distributions developed withing the community - that's not my words, that (as Laurent points out elsewhere) is how we describe ourselves on http://www.opensolaris.org/ os/about/ : > The main difference between the OpenSolaris project and the Solaris > Operating System is that the OpenSolaris project does not provide > an end-user product or complete distribution. What multiple people have suggested is it's time to change that as it is confusing for newcomers. I completely support that change. S. From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:29:33 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:29:33 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> Patrick Finch wrote: > Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by > Sun" mutually exclusive? They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have been denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive is pushing for this project. Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that people think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:38:40 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:38:40 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: > >> Simon Phipps wrote: >>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >>> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >>> That is not here. >> >> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? > > In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd suggest > though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate venue. Agreed. Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community doesn't exist - I think it's reasonable for Mktg/Ug/Advocacy to sponsor it instead. But again, that should be up to the core contributors of said community. >>> Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed >>> within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris >>> distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it >>> something else. >> >> But there isn't exactly one distribution... we have 5 that I count >> (not including Indiana). Indiana will only be called "the OpenSolaris >> distribution" if people insist on it. That's what I'm opposed to. > > Right now there exactly zero distributions developed withing the > community - that's not my words, that (as Laurent points out elsewhere) > is how we describe ourselves on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/ : >> The main difference between the OpenSolaris project and the Solaris >> Operating System is that the OpenSolaris project does not provide an >> end-user product or complete distribution. > > What multiple people have suggested is it's time to change that as it is > confusing for newcomers. I completely support that change. Incorrect. You are misreading "OpenSolaris project" as "OpenSolaris community". That text states that "the OpenSolaris project" doesn't provide a distribution, not the OpenSolaris community. I agree the text is confusing; but the point it's trying to make is what our initial message of OpenSolaris has always stated: OpenSolaris is a set of source code from which others base distributions. This has always been 100% true and correct. Others within the community (including Sun) have derived binary distributions based on OpenSolaris source code. So I disagree that there are exactly zero distributions developed within the community. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 08:43:26 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:43:26 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666D61E.5060501@sun.com> Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Patrick Finch wrote: >> Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by >> Sun" mutually exclusive? > > They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had > asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have been > denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive is > pushing for this project. > > Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that > people > think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". > Understood - you're right that there is an obvious asymmetry in the relationship. My point was just that naming a distro "OpenSolaris" wouldn't prevent it from being driven purely within the community. From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 08:44:53 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:44:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: > >> Simon Phipps wrote: >>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It should >>> be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. That is not >>> here. >> >> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? > > In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd suggest > though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate venue. > >> >>> Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed within >>> the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris >>> distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it something >>> else. >> >> But there isn't exactly one distribution... we have 5 that I count (not >> including Indiana). Indiana will only be called "the OpenSolaris >> distribution" if people insist on it. That's what I'm opposed to. > > Right now there exactly zero distributions developed withing the community - As I said, that's wrong. Nexenta, BeleniX and other existing distros are, by all rights and intentions, projects of and by the OpenSolaris community. The Nexenta project leadership sees it that way too: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2007-March/026 547.html Eric > that's not my words, that (as Laurent points out elsewhere) is how we > describe ourselves on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/ : >> The main difference between the OpenSolaris project and the Solaris >> Operating System is that the OpenSolaris project does not provide an >> end-user product or complete distribution. > > What multiple people have suggested is it's time to change that as it is > confusing for newcomers. I completely support that change. > > S. > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 08:50:27 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:50:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: >> >> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >> >>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >>>> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >>>> That is not here. >>> >>> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >>> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? >> >> In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd suggest >> though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate venue. > > Agreed. Me too. > Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community > doesn't exist I'd be very willing to help start one. Here are the key requirements per the main Community page: ... Proposals need to list at least 3 current Core Contributors who are nominating the community, at least 3 participants who will become the initial Core Contributors of the new community, and one person who will serve as the community's Facilitator... I'm a Core Contributor, and we probably have several others on this discussion who are as well... Eric > - I think it's reasonable for Mktg/Ug/Advocacy to sponsor it > instead. But again, that should be up to the core contributors of said > community. > >>>> Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed within >>>> the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris >>>> distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it something >>>> else. >>> >>> But there isn't exactly one distribution... we have 5 that I count (not >>> including Indiana). Indiana will only be called "the OpenSolaris >>> distribution" if people insist on it. That's what I'm opposed to. >> >> Right now there exactly zero distributions developed withing the community >> - that's not my words, that (as Laurent points out elsewhere) is how we >> describe ourselves on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/ : >>> The main difference between the OpenSolaris project and the Solaris >>> Operating System is that the OpenSolaris project does not provide an >>> end-user product or complete distribution. >> >> What multiple people have suggested is it's time to change that as it is >> confusing for newcomers. I completely support that change. > > Incorrect. You are misreading "OpenSolaris project" as "OpenSolaris > community". That text states that "the OpenSolaris project" doesn't provide > a distribution, not the OpenSolaris community. I agree the text is > confusing; but the point it's trying to make is what our initial message of > OpenSolaris has always stated: > > OpenSolaris is a set of source code from which others base > distributions. > > This has always been 100% true and correct. Others within the community > (including Sun) have derived binary distributions based on OpenSolaris source > code. > > So I disagree that there are exactly zero distributions developed within the > community. > > cheers, > steve > -- > stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net > opensolaris // solaris kernel development > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > From Michal.Pryc at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 08:51:44 2007 From: Michal.Pryc at Sun.COM (Michal Pryc) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:51:44 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4666D810.5050104@Sun.Com> Jim Grisanzio wrote: > /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and > User Group communities/ > > > hey ... > > I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group > Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list > can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this > project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've > suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html > > Agree? Disagree? Hello, For the last few weeks there was probably 1000+ e-mails about project Indiana. That is brilliant, since it tells that this conversation was really needed, and this kind of project is also needed. I was trying to follow the threads, some people were pointing very important things and some just complaining without being creative. I think that they just do like to complain :) First people received a lot of messages on the opensolaris-discuss, than the conversation was spreading in the light speed to the other mailing lists. (I will try to complain a little. I hope with some creative thought). Maybe this is a time to create indiana-discuss mailing list, and just point to alias on the other mailing-lists, so the discussion will move up there. Why? - people that are returning after 3 days off will not have 200+ messages in the mailbox (most of them will not even try to touch the thread) - everything will be in one place, so there will be no cross mailing - people that are not interested, will not resign from subscribing to the mailing lists, just because they get to much messages - much more reasons :) -- best Michal Pryc Member of Irish OpenSolaris Users Group http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ie-osug/ http://blogs.sun.com/migi From webmink at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:54:25 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:54:25 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> Message-ID: <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:50, Eric Boutilier wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >> Simon Phipps wrote: >>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>>>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or >>>>> Advocacy. It should be in a place where co-development >>>>> engineers will participate. That is not here. >>>> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs >>>> of non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? >>> In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd >>> suggest though that a "Distributions" community is a more >>> appropriate venue. >> >> Agreed. > > Me too. > >> Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community >> doesn't exist > > I'd be very willing to help start one. > > Here are the key requirements per the main Community page: > > ... Proposals need to list at least 3 current Core Contributors > who are > nominating the community, at least 3 participants who will > become the > initial Core Contributors of the new community, and one person > who will > serve as the community's Facilitator... > > I'm a Core Contributor, and we probably have several others on > this discussion who are as well... I would support that proposal (I am a core contributor). S. From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:55:56 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:55:56 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666D810.5050104@Sun.Com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666D810.5050104@Sun.Com> Message-ID: <4666D90C.2080302@sun.com> Michal Pryc wrote: > Jim Grisanzio wrote: >> /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and >> User Group communities/ >> >> >> hey ... >> >> I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group >> Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: >> >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html >> >> The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list >> can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this >> project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've >> suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: >> >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html >> >> Agree? Disagree? > > Hello, > For the last few weeks there was probably 1000+ e-mails about project > Indiana. That is brilliant, since it tells that this conversation was > really needed, and this kind of project is also needed. > > I was trying to follow the threads, some people were pointing very > important things and some just complaining without being creative. I > think that they just do like to complain :) > > First people received a lot of messages on the opensolaris-discuss, than > the conversation was spreading in the light speed to the other mailing > lists. > > (I will try to complain a little. I hope with some creative thought). > > Maybe this is a time to create indiana-discuss mailing list, and just > point to alias on the other mailing-lists, so the discussion will move > up there. Why? > > - people that are returning after 3 days off will not have 200+ messages > in the mailbox (most of them will not even try to touch the thread) > - everything will be in one place, so there will be no cross mailing > - people that are not interested, will not resign from subscribing to > the mailing lists, just because they get to much messages > - much more reasons :) > This whole thread has been about getting the marketing community to sponsor Project Indiana so that it can get project space, and thus a mailing list. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:56:26 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:56:26 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:50, Eric Boutilier wrote: > >> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>>>>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. >>>>>> It should be in a place where co-development engineers will >>>>>> participate. That is not here. >>>>> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >>>>> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? >>>> In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd >>>> suggest though that a "Distributions" community is a more >>>> appropriate venue. >>> >>> Agreed. >> >> Me too. >> >>> Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community >>> doesn't exist >> >> I'd be very willing to help start one. >> >> Here are the key requirements per the main Community page: >> >> ... Proposals need to list at least 3 current Core Contributors >> who are >> nominating the community, at least 3 participants who will become the >> initial Core Contributors of the new community, and one person who >> will >> serve as the community's Facilitator... >> >> I'm a Core Contributor, and we probably have several others on >> this discussion who are as well... > > I would support that proposal (I am a core contributor). I'll nominate as well. -steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Keith.Bierman at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 08:58:31 2007 From: Keith.Bierman at Sun.COM (Keith Bierman) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:58:31 -0600 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> Message-ID: <853614B3-850B-4CD7-95ED-0747713DF29F@sun.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Eric Boutilier wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Simon Phipps wrote: >> >> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >> >> Right now there exactly zero distributions developed withing the >> community - > > As I said, that's wrong. Nexenta, BeleniX and other existing > distros are, > by all rights and intentions, projects of and by the OpenSolaris > community. Others have already pointed out the text in the OpenSolaris charter which seems at variance with this position. Rather than arguing about how we can interpret the words to allow this reality, let's just adjust the words which are causing confusion. It seems to me that there's an obviously useful set of moves to make things clear: 1) Create the Distro group. Invite all of the existing distros based on OpenSolaris to join and use it for interDistro discussion. a) Encourage intraDistro discussions to migrate to this hosting area as well b) Discourage leveraging this infrastructure for the download hosting of the distros themselves ;> 2) Work with the Marketing groups and/or Execs to appropriately license the use of the term "OpenSolaris" as a brand for all distros which meet some set of constraints. 3) The spark of this discussion was Project Indiana which probably should have a special place. Just as Debian is the UrDistribution for a whole raft of Linux distros, so it is probable that will happen to a successful Solaris UrDistro. Hopefully we won't have to fission as much as they have (viz. make and continue to evolve the Solaris UrDistro fast enough to satisfy the bulk of needs) but if architected well, those with special needs should be able to derive from it, rather than going back to the original sources. The proposal that this UrDistro uniquely be called OpenSolaris is probably a BadProposal. I don't have a good name (DebIan suggests names like JonIan; but there really are too many potential three letters to represent either Execs or Engineers whose blood sweat and tears should be commemorated). I doubt people would like to cannonize a name like UrDistro ;> Keith H. Bierman keith.bierman at Sun.COM | khbkhb at gmail.com Sun Microsystems Microelectronics Group | sun IM: khb AIM: kbiermank 5430 Nassau Circle East | 650-352-4432 voice+fax Cherry Hills Village, CO 80113 | sun internal 68207 http://blogs.sun.com/khb | 303-997-2749 Copyright 2007 From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 09:01:53 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:01:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666D61E.5060501@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4666D61E.5060501@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Patrick Finch wrote: > > > Alan Coopersmith wrote: >> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by >>> Sun" mutually exclusive? >> >> They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had >> asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have been >> denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive is >> pushing for this project. >> >> Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that >> people >> think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". >> > > Understood - you're right that there is an obvious asymmetry in the > relationship. My point was just that naming a distro "OpenSolaris" wouldn't > prevent it from being driven purely within the community. Excellent point (misconceptions abound in that regard). Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 10:24:16 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:24:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: >> >> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:50, Eric Boutilier wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>>>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>>>>>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >>>>>>> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >>>>>>> That is not here. >>>>>> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >>>>>> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? >>>>> In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd suggest >>>>> though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate venue. >>>> >>>> Agreed. >>> >>> Me too. >>> >>>> Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community doesn't >>>> exist >>> >>> I'd be very willing to help start one. >>> >>> Here are the key requirements per the main Community page: >>> >>> ... Proposals need to list at least 3 current Core Contributors who >>> are >>> nominating the community, at least 3 participants who will become the >>> initial Core Contributors of the new community, and one person who >>> will >>> serve as the community's Facilitator... >>> >>> I'm a Core Contributor, and we probably have several others on >>> this discussion who are as well... >> >> I would support that proposal (I am a core contributor). > > I'll nominate as well. OK, that's three[1]. So when it comes to creating a new Community Group, the biggest delay is a required 14-day discussion period[2]. So in the interest of starting that timer as soon as possible, I hope to pull together and post/review a 1st draft of the proposal here as soon as possible. And with that in mind, I'll get there even faster if I have a tailwind. Which is to say, if anyone can contribute bullets or paragraphs, especially wording around goals and technical scope, any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Here are the guidelines they provide for proposal writers: ".. Community members can propose new Community Groups by writing to the ogb-discuss list outlining items such as goals, technical scope, potential participants, leaders, and activities..." --Eric 1. Keep those nominations coming though -- three is just the required minimum. 2. Please direct any comments about excessive beuracracy to opensolaris-discuss :) From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 10:33:31 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:33:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: Should we maybe send an heads-up message to the leadership of the five distros? (Six including Indiana.) I suspect some of them would not otherwise know about this effort. Eric On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Eric Boutilier wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >> Simon Phipps wrote: >>> >>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:50, Eric Boutilier wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>>>>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>>>>>>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >>>>>>>> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >>>>>>>> That is not here. >>>>>>> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >>>>>>> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? >>>>>> In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd >>>>>> suggest though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate >>>>>> venue. >>>>> >>>>> Agreed. >>>> >>>> Me too. >>>> >>>>> Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community doesn't >>>>> exist >>>> >>>> I'd be very willing to help start one. >>>> >>>> Here are the key requirements per the main Community page: >>>> >>>> ... Proposals need to list at least 3 current Core Contributors who >>>> are >>>> nominating the community, at least 3 participants who will become the >>>> initial Core Contributors of the new community, and one person who >>>> will >>>> serve as the community's Facilitator... >>>> >>>> I'm a Core Contributor, and we probably have several others on >>>> this discussion who are as well... >>> >>> I would support that proposal (I am a core contributor). >> >> I'll nominate as well. > > OK, that's three[1]. > > So when it comes to creating a new Community Group, the biggest delay is a > required 14-day discussion period[2]. So in the interest of starting that > timer as soon as possible, I hope to pull together and post/review a 1st > draft of the proposal here as soon as possible. And with that in mind, I'll > get there even faster if I have a tailwind. Which is to say, if anyone can > contribute bullets or paragraphs, especially wording around goals and > technical scope, any and all help would be greatly appreciated. > > Here are the guidelines they provide for proposal writers: > > ".. Community members can propose new Community Groups by > writing to the ogb-discuss list outlining items such as > goals, technical scope, potential participants, leaders, > and activities..." > > --Eric > > 1. Keep those nominations coming though -- three is just the > required minimum. > > 2. Please direct any comments about excessive beuracracy to > opensolaris-discuss :) > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 10:35:43 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:35:43 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666F06F.2060408@sun.com> Yes, good idea. Eric Boutilier wrote: > Should we maybe send an heads-up message to the leadership of > the five distros? (Six including Indiana.) I suspect some of > them would not otherwise know about this effort. > > Eric > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Eric Boutilier wrote: >> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>> >>>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:50, Eric Boutilier wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>>>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>>>>>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>>>>>>>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or >>>>>>>>> Advocacy. It should be in a place where co-development >>>>>>>>> engineers will participate. That is not here. >>>>>>>> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs >>>>>>>> of non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? >>>>>>> In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd >>>>>>> suggest though that a "Distributions" community is a more >>>>>>> appropriate venue. >>>>>> >>>>>> Agreed. >>>>> >>>>> Me too. >>>>> >>>>>> Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community >>>>>> doesn't exist >>>>> >>>>> I'd be very willing to help start one. >>>>> >>>>> Here are the key requirements per the main Community page: >>>>> >>>>> ... Proposals need to list at least 3 current Core Contributors >>>>> who are >>>>> nominating the community, at least 3 participants who will >>>>> become the >>>>> initial Core Contributors of the new community, and one person >>>>> who will >>>>> serve as the community's Facilitator... >>>>> >>>>> I'm a Core Contributor, and we probably have several others on >>>>> this discussion who are as well... >>>> >>>> I would support that proposal (I am a core contributor). >>> >>> I'll nominate as well. >> >> OK, that's three[1]. >> >> So when it comes to creating a new Community Group, the biggest delay >> is a >> required 14-day discussion period[2]. So in the interest of starting that >> timer as soon as possible, I hope to pull together and post/review a 1st >> draft of the proposal here as soon as possible. And with that in mind, >> I'll >> get there even faster if I have a tailwind. Which is to say, if anyone >> can >> contribute bullets or paragraphs, especially wording around goals and >> technical scope, any and all help would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Here are the guidelines they provide for proposal writers: >> >> ".. Community members can propose new Community Groups by >> writing to the ogb-discuss list outlining items such as >> goals, technical scope, potential participants, leaders, >> and activities..." >> >> --Eric >> >> 1. Keep those nominations coming though -- three is just the >> required minimum. >> >> 2. Please direct any comments about excessive beuracracy to >> opensolaris-discuss :) >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org >> -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 10:38:48 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:38:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: > ... > > 2. Please direct any comments about excessive beuracracy to > opensolaris-discuss. ... and poor spelling to /dev/null. :-/ From peter.tribble at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 10:47:00 2007 From: peter.tribble at gmail.com (Peter Tribble) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:47:00 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: On 6/6/07, Eric Boutilier wrote: > Should we maybe send an heads-up message to the leadership of > the five distros? (Six including Indiana.) I suspect some of > them would not otherwise know about this effort. Having a ditribution community proposal come from elsewhere without their involvement and agreement would seem undesirable. In fact, they should be leading such an effort - one might rightly ask why they did not come up with the proposal themselves? I have some problems with a distributions community. One is that the immediate objective seems to be to find Indiana a home, which seems backward (especially given that the Install community is a pretty good fit, and while not all the core contributors have chimed in yet, we have the required 3 +1 votes and no -1 yet). The other is that, constitutionally, a community exists to initiate and manage projects, so that if it were to do what it's supposed to then the distributions would either (a) choose to not be a part of the distributions community, or (b) no longer be independent agents free to do their own thing. Neither option seems desirable, so why create a formal management structure? -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 11:06:13 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:06:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Peter Tribble wrote: > On 6/6/07, Eric Boutilier wrote: >> Should we maybe send an heads-up message to the leadership of >> the five distros? (Six including Indiana.) I suspect some of >> them would not otherwise know about this effort. > > Having a ditribution community proposal come from elsewhere > without their involvement and agreement would seem undesirable. > In fact, they should be leading such an effort - one might rightly > ask why they did not come up with the proposal themselves? > > I have some problems with a distributions community. One is that > the immediate objective seems to be to find Indiana a home, Uh oh. Hopefully you're mostly alone in that perception. That's pretty scary otherwise. For my part, as most (hopefully) know by now, it's unthinkable (beyond unthinkable) for that to have been my objective. Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 11:24:25 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:24:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Peter Tribble wrote: > On 6/6/07, Eric Boutilier wrote: >> Should we maybe send an heads-up message to the leadership of >> the five distros? (Six including Indiana.) I suspect some of >> them would not otherwise know about this effort. > > Having a ditribution community proposal come from elsewhere > without their involvement and agreement would seem undesirable. > In fact, they should be leading such an effort - one might rightly > ask why they did not come up with the proposal themselves? > > I have some problems with a distributions community. One is that > the immediate objective seems to be to find Indiana a home, which > seems backward (especially given that the Install community is a > pretty good fit, and while not all the core contributors have chimed > in yet, we have the required 3 +1 votes and no -1 yet). The other is > that, constitutionally, a community exists to initiate and manage > projects, so that if it were to do what it's supposed to then the > distributions would either (a) choose to not be a part of the > distributions community, or (b) no longer be independent agents > free to do their own thing. Neither option seems desirable, so why > create a formal management structure? Good point. Code talks. So I agree that the degree and diversity of interest that comes from the distros (or not) will strengthen (or weaken) this proposal proportionally, and that it should probably be aborted if the distros mostly explicitely object to the creation of a distros community group. Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 11:41:50 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:41:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: > ... > (especially given that the Install community is a > pretty good fit, and while not all the core contributors have chimed > in yet, we have the required 3 +1 votes and no -1 yet). Putting on my "Project Herald" hat[1] ... It actually doesn't matter how many Community Groups (CGs) a project belongs to. So in this situation, the Indiana project creation request can happen immediately (e.g via the Installation CG, or via the Advocacy CG, which also now supports it). Indiana will then have 2 endorsing CGs at the outset and a 3rd if the Distro CG becomes a reality. Eric 1. Cool designation huh? Anyone want it? :-) From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 12:43:07 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 14:43:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Distro Community Group proposal initiative Message-ID: Dear leaders of OpenSolaris based distros, The purpose of this message is to seek your input/involvement in an effort to create a "Distro Community Group" on opensolaris.org. Please feel free to forward, post, or otherwise redistribute this message in any way you see fit. The initiative, which started today, aims to create a new OpenSolaris Community Group for supporting distro Projects and distro-related Projects. As you may know, Community Groups are the official entities under which OpenSolaris Projects fall, and therefore have substantial influence in the OpenSolaris Community. We would value your comments in this effort to create a Distros Community Group, as well as the comments of your users, developers, and other advocates. And of course if you wish to become directly involved, that would be even more valuable. The discussion is taking place ("cross-posted") on two mailing-lists: ug-discuss at opensolaris.org (the main User Groups list) and opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org (the OpenSolaris Marketing list). I think the following post will provide you with a quick overview of the current state of the initiative. But I also encourage you to read the entire thread. http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ug-discuss/2007-June/001987.html Eric Boutilier OpenSolaris Core Contributor, User Group Community From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 14:20:02 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 09:20:02 +1200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> Message-ID: <46672502.5030506@sun.com> Hey, Stephen Lau wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: >> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >> >> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >> That is not here. > > But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of > non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? At the end of the day I suspect it won't matter - we'll have a project page, and some community groups will endorse that or not through the web infrastructure [1]. I agree with the intent of wanting to get a community group to sponsor any project request, but think it's somewhat redundant when the project starts. Glynn [1] I'll certainly make sure the Desktop endorses, as it would if Belenix, Nexenta or otherwise was a community proposal - there's a lot of overlap there, and would expect the desktop dudes to be involved From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 16:51:42 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:51:42 +1200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Distro Community Group proposal initiative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4667488E.2050008@sun.com> Hey, Eric Boutilier wrote: > Dear leaders of OpenSolaris based distros, > > The purpose of this message is to seek your input/involvement in an > effort to create a "Distro Community Group" on opensolaris.org. I know I can't speak for Ian, but I think this is an *excellent* idea and would love to be part of a distribution community. Rock on! Glynn From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 17:00:14 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:00:14 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] Distro Community Group proposal initiative In-Reply-To: <4667488E.2050008@sun.com> References: <4667488E.2050008@sun.com> Message-ID: <46674A8E.9060009@sun.com> This sounds like the most appropriate solution. Count me in. Sara Glynn Foster wrote: > Hey, > > Eric Boutilier wrote: > >> Dear leaders of OpenSolaris based distros, >> >> The purpose of this message is to seek your input/involvement in an >> effort to create a "Distro Community Group" on opensolaris.org. >> > > I know I can't speak for Ian, but I think this is an *excellent* idea and would > love to be part of a distribution community. > > > Rock on! > > Glynn > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ricottaspillways at cstplindia.com Sat Jun 2 01:26:01 2007 From: ricottaspillways at cstplindia.com (HOLLY Daley) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 07:06:01 -0120 Subject: [osol-mktg] For Opengrok Message-ID: <01c7a4e4$7a053990$6c822ecf@ricottaspillways> Downloadable Software(DS) is a rapidly growing company with a high quality software You've come to the right place if you need professionally implemented programming solutions for all kinds of usage. Thousands of happy customers have already benefited from our software and solutions. Hundreds are joining this community every day. We deliver superior software products and services that empower our partners and customers to dramatically improve their development, deployment, integration and management of quality applications worldwide. VIEW ALL PRODUCTS Most popular products : Microsoft Windows Vista Business Retail Price $299.00 Our $79.95 Microsoft Office 2007 Enterprise Retail Price $899.00 Our $79.95 Macromedia Dreamweaver 8 Retail Price $399.99 Our $49.95 Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium for Windows Retail Price $1799.00 Our $269.90 Microsoft Office 2003 Professional with Business Contact Manager for Outlook Retail Price $550.00 Our $69.95 Adobe Illustrator CS2 Retail Price $499.00 Our $59.95 Adobe Premiere 2.0 Retail Price $849.00 Our $59.95 CorelDraw Graphics Suite X3 Retail Price $399.00 Our $59.95 Macromedia Studio 8 Retail Price 999.00 Our 99.95 Autodesk AutoCAD 2007 Retail Price $3995.00 Our $129.95 Intuit QuickBooks 2006 Premier Edition Retail Price $399.95 Our $69.95 Avid Liquid Pro 7 Retail Price $999.00 Our $69.95 Adobe Acrobat 8.0 Professional Retail Price $449.00 Our $79.95 Microsoft Money Home & Business 7 Retail Price $89.90 Our $39.95 MS Windows XP Professional with SP2 Retail Price $269.99 Our $49.95 Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 Retail Price $599.00 Our $69.95 Micr?soft Office XP Professional Retail Price $499.00 Our $49.95 VIEW ALL PRODUCTS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaggednessnecromancy at tpgi.com.au Sun Jun 3 11:40:01 2007 From: jaggednessnecromancy at tpgi.com.au (Lorretta Hanawalt) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 21:00:01 +0180 Subject: [osol-mktg] For Opengrok Message-ID: <01c7a622$26e74ca0$6c822ecf@jaggednessnecromancy> Downloadable Software (DS) is a fast-paced company providing high quality software. You've come to the right place if you need professionally implemented programming solutions for your usage. Thousands of satisfied customers have already benefited from our soft and solutions. Hundreds are joining this community every day.We deliver superior soft and services that empower our partners and customers to dramatically improve their development, deployment, integration and management of quality applications worldwide. VIEW ALL PRODUCTS Most popular products : Microsoft Windows Vista Business Retail Price $299.00 Our $79.95 Microsoft Office 2007 Enterprise Retail Price $899.00 Our $79.95 Macromedia Dreamweaver 8 Retail Price $399.99 Our $49.95 Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium for Windows Retail Price $1799.00 Our $269.90 Microsoft Office 2003 Professional with Business Contact Manager for Outlook Retail Price $550.00 Our $69.95 Adobe Illustrator CS2 Retail Price $499.00 Our $59.95 Adobe Premiere 2.0 Retail Price $849.00 Our $59.95 CorelDraw Graphics Suite X3 Retail Price $399.00 Our $59.95 Macromedia Studio 8 Retail Price 999.00 Our 99.95 Autodesk AutoCAD 2007 Retail Price $3995.00 Our $129.95 Intuit QuickBooks 2006 Premier Edition Retail Price $399.95 Our $69.95 Avid Liquid Pro 7 Retail Price $999.00 Our $69.95 Adobe Acrobat 8.0 Professional Retail Price $449.00 Our $79.95 Microsoft Money Home & Business 7 Retail Price $89.90 Our $39.95 MS Windows XP Professional with SP2 Retail Price $269.99 Our $49.95 Adobe Photoshop CS2 V 9.0 Retail Price $599.00 Our $69.95 Micr?soft Office XP Professional Retail Price $499.00 Our $49.95 VIEW ALL PRODUCTS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From venkytv at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 22:04:45 2007 From: venkytv at gmail.com (Venky) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:34:45 +0530 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20070606050445.GI4377@spikesource.com> Just in case we haven't had enough votes already - I agree too. Venky. On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 11:54:54PM -0500, Eric Boutilier wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >/sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and > >User Group communities/ > > > > > >hey ... > > > >I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group > >Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > > >http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > > >The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list can > >be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this project > >since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've suggested this > >to Glynn on the OGB list: > > > >http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html > > > >Agree? Disagree? > > Agree. > > I do want to note here that I'm definitely in the camp with those concerned > about the project wanting to use the designation OpenSolaris Distro. > (Should that designation even be claimable by a project? If yes, does the > Indiana project get to claim it?) But working out tricky issues like that > is one of the big reasons the Indiana project urgently needs its own > website space and mailing list. So an enthusiastic thumbs up from me. > > Eric > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org From dgalan at aulaunix.org Wed Jun 6 01:59:19 2007 From: dgalan at aulaunix.org (David Galan Ortiz) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:59:19 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4c0d8ae2a07ba67678f20f4ace506294@mail.aulaunix.org> Helo Jim, agree David SPOSUG On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:51:37 +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and > User Group communities/ > > > hey ... > > I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group > Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list > can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this > project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've > suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html > > Agree? Disagree? > > Jim > -- > Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris > -- > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org -- *********************** David Gal?n Ortiz dgalan at aulaunix.org www.aulaunix.org blogs.aulaunix.org *********************** From lasarux at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 14:33:56 2007 From: lasarux at gmail.com (Pedro Gracia) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 23:33:56 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46672502.5030506@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <46672502.5030506@sun.com> Message-ID: To finish this day, a bit of humor with this tribute to "Indiana" Murdock "Jones" and The Last Crusade. ;-) http://lasarux.blogspot.com/2007/06/indiana-indy-la-ltima-cruzada.html (in Spanish). Cheers, Pedro 2007/6/6, Glynn Foster : > > Hey, > > Stephen Lau wrote: > > Simon Phipps wrote: > >> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. > >> > >> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It > >> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. > >> That is not here. > > > > But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of > > non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? > > At the end of the day I suspect it won't matter - we'll have a project > page, and > some community groups will endorse that or not through the web > infrastructure > [1]. I agree with the intent of wanting to get a community group to > sponsor any > project request, but think it's somewhat redundant when the project > starts. > > > Glynn > > [1] I'll certainly make sure the Desktop endorses, as it would if Belenix, > Nexenta or otherwise was a community proposal - there's a lot of > overlap > there, and would expect the desktop dudes to be involved > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org > -- Pedro A. Gracia Fajardo http://lasarux.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 17:12:10 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:12:10 -0500 Subject: Project Indiana Marketing was: [osol-mktg] 2nd Anniversary time In-Reply-To: <4EB8420F-6282-4D9B-89F1-D5F7E39C401A@sun.com> References: <46378E57.2060402@sun.com> <1178618894.3806.55.camel@sr1-edub-04> <464E0EE8.8040304@sun.com> <465A4995.6090404@Sun.COM> <4666B8F2.3050509@sun.com> <4666C3A9.2090605@sun.com> <4EB8420F-6282-4D9B-89F1-D5F7E39C401A@sun.com> Message-ID: <46674D5A.1000201@sun.com> Sure, we can have a Best Of area on the Advocates site. We should put together a group to decide winners that are leaders of that project. Also, it would sort of suck if someone or some project were left out because they did something in Jan/Feb instead of Nov and it were forgotten or neglected to got mentioned, so we should take nominations all year long. Sara Simon Phipps wrote: > I agree, this is a fine idea. I suggest "launching" the project to > deliver the awards on the anniversary date though - 6 months should be > plenty of time to get all the details sorted, and it means we can all > still celebrate the fact awards will be given. > > S. > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 15:24, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >> Sure, I think that's fine. >> >> I like the notion of a year end "best of" bit. I think the awards are >> important to do annually. The awards are not necessarily tied to an >> accomplishments document, though, so I'm still going to work on a >> wrap up. However, unlike last year, I think I'm going to maintain the >> document all year long so it's always up to date. I'll put it in the >> Advocacy Community somewhere -- probably along with the Newsletter so >> all the data is there in one place. I promised some people a status >> report on the community, so I want to get that done and then it's >> easier to just maintain a little bit at a time. >> >> So, fine by me doing awards at the end of the year. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> >> >> Sara Dornsife wrote: >> >>> I've been meaning to ask a question about the anniversary and the >>> awards/accomplishments - would anyone be in support of doing these >>> at the end of the calendar year as opposed to the end of the >>> anniversary year? I think it would be nice to have "Best of 2007" >>> awards, and having them in June is a bit odd. (I realize I'm really >>> late on suggesting, sorry). >>> Sara >>> Jim Grisanzio wrote: >>>> We accomplished a great deal this year, and I've already been >>>> collecting stuff to list. I'll start working on v2 of the yearly >>>> community roll up and circulate it. Last year's list looked like this: >>>> http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=9941&tstart=0 >>>> >>>> Jim >>> _______________________________________________ >>> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >>> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 17:13:10 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:13:10 +1200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <46672502.5030506@sun.com> Message-ID: <46674D96.9030704@sun.com> Pedro Gracia wrote: > To finish this day, a bit of humor with this tribute to "Indiana" > Murdock "Jones" and The Last Crusade. ;-) > > http://lasarux.blogspot.com/2007/06/indiana-indy-la-ltima-cruzada.html > > (in Spanish). Hahaha - awesome! That's totally worth an OpenSolaris swag pack! Send me your address off list, and I'll figure something out. Perfect hackergotchi too :) Glynn From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Thu Jun 7 07:35:34 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 09:35:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> Message-ID: [Revisiting this sub-thread between Simon and Steve]... On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: > >> Simon Phipps wrote: >>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It should >>> be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. That is not >>> here. I agree with Simon. >> >> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? > > In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd suggest > though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate venue. Although a Distributions community would indeed be an appropriate venue -- /if/ it existed. There isn't a Distributions Community Group today, and for good reason (I now realize)... Quoting Peter Tribble: "... Why create a formal management structure" Full post: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-mktg/2007-June/003854.html Eric From brian.gupta at gmail.com Thu Jun 7 08:18:55 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:18:55 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> Message-ID: <5b5090780706070818h4344ca95p790b4ae486a94a68@mail.gmail.com> How difficult is it to move a mailing list? I ask, cause might it not make sense to setup indiana-discuss now, and then move it to the appropriate community once you all have figured out where to put it? Does it really matter whether it is "technical" or "engineering"? I say that because I suspect if Indiana catches on, it will eventually be promoted to it's own community. Let's just creat the project and mailing list, and tie it to either the marketing, install, or approachability communities. (Marketing and install have seconded lets just make the list.) (I think the people who are proposing the project should make a quick executive decision which community it goes in. I personally prefer approachability, but that is probably just me). brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Thu Jun 7 08:38:23 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:38:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <5b5090780706070818h4344ca95p790b4ae486a94a68@mail.gmail.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <5b5090780706070818h4344ca95p790b4ae486a94a68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2007, Brian Gupta wrote: > How difficult is it to move a mailing list? I ask, cause might it not make > sense to setup indiana-discuss now, and then move it to the appropriate > community once you all have figured out where to put it? > > Does it really matter whether it is "technical" or "engineering"? I think only in one minor way, and only at the outset (i.e. now): One of the Community Groups that has endorsed the Indiana project proposal (two so far AFAIK) needs to submit the new-project request. Other than that, a project can belong to any number of Community Groups. > I say that > because I suspect if Indiana catches on, it will eventually be promoted to > it's own community. Agree. > Let's just creat the project and mailing list, and tie it to either the > marketing, install, or approachability communities. (Marketing and install > have seconded lets just make the list.) > ... Hang in there, Glynn's working on it. Eric From benr at cuddletech.com Thu Jun 7 17:49:51 2007 From: benr at cuddletech.com (Ben Rockwood) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 17:49:51 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Project Proposal: OpenSolaris Picnic Message-ID: <4668A7AF.5090007@cuddletech.com> I'm getting everything setup for the OpenSolaris Picnic event scheduled for June 16th. I'd like to create a Marketing "Project" for coordination, etc. Given the short time frame I need to fast-track the process. If none of the other core contributers are opposed I plan to send the project request to the OGB for processing tonight/tomorrow. benr. From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Thu Jun 7 16:57:30 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 16:57:30 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Project Proposal: OpenSolaris Picnic In-Reply-To: <4668A7AF.5090007@cuddletech.com> References: <4668A7AF.5090007@cuddletech.com> Message-ID: <46689B6A.1000809@sun.com> Ben Rockwood wrote: > I'm getting everything setup for the OpenSolaris Picnic event scheduled > for June 16th. I'd like to create a Marketing "Project" for > coordination, etc. Given the short time frame I need to fast-track the > process. If none of the other core contributers are opposed I plan to > send the project request to the OGB for processing tonight/tomorrow. Is this going to claim to be the OpenSolaris Reference Picnic and diminish all the existing picnics? Or would it be better incorporated as a new short-duration User Group? Who will decide on crucial taste issues - a community committee or a sole arbiter? 8-) [On a bit more serious note - Usenix Annual Tech Conference is in Santa Clara June 17 - 22, so if there was a way to invite any OpenSolaris folks coming in for that, it would be cool...unfortunately, I think I'll be at the other end of the bay that day, so probably won't make it this year.] -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From benr at cuddletech.com Thu Jun 7 18:04:15 2007 From: benr at cuddletech.com (Ben Rockwood) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 18:04:15 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Project Proposal: OpenSolaris Picnic In-Reply-To: <46689B6A.1000809@sun.com> References: <4668A7AF.5090007@cuddletech.com> <46689B6A.1000809@sun.com> Message-ID: <4668AB0F.9030008@cuddletech.com> Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Ben Rockwood wrote: >> I'm getting everything setup for the OpenSolaris Picnic event >> scheduled for June 16th. I'd like to create a Marketing "Project" >> for coordination, etc. Given the short time frame I need to >> fast-track the process. If none of the other core contributers are >> opposed I plan to send the project request to the OGB for processing >> tonight/tomorrow. > > Is this going to claim to be the OpenSolaris Reference Picnic and > diminish > all the existing picnics? Or would it be better incorporated as a new > short-duration User Group? Who will decide on crucial taste issues - a > community committee or a sole arbiter? 8-) These are issues to be sorted out by the project leadership.... assuming I get a project. :) > [On a bit more serious note - Usenix Annual Tech Conference is in Santa > Clara June 17 - 22, so if there was a way to invite any OpenSolaris folks > coming in for that, it would be cool...unfortunately, I think I'll be at > the other end of the bay that day, so probably won't make it this year.] Already thought of that. They are all invited. This is going to be a very very open event. benr. From stevel at sun.com Thu Jun 7 17:19:29 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 17:19:29 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Advocates (Advocacy) Community Group In-Reply-To: <46513B2D.4030405@Sun.COM> References: <463056AA.50108@Sun.COM> <46513B2D.4030405@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4668A091.4020609@sun.com> We voted on this yesterday and it was approved unanimously. I believe you will need the help of Derek to do the merger (who is on vacation at the moment), but this has cleared the OGB. It's all merely technical details from here on out ... ;-) (and I imagine this is rather complex for Derek to do, so please be patient - this won't happen overnight) cheers, steve Jim Grisanzio wrote: > FYI: > > The OGB will vote on this formally when they have a full meeting (one > member is out of town). Two members have said that the proposal looks > fine, so we should be in good shape. > > Also, Ben Rockwood has proposed that the Immigrants Community be part of > the merger: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/immigrants/ > > Ben's proposal on the OGB list: > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000520.html > > I think it's fine, but I wanted everyone to see in case anyone had an > opinion either way. > > Jim -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From tamrockwood at yahoo.com Thu Jun 7 17:30:18 2007 From: tamrockwood at yahoo.com (Tamarah Rockwood) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 17:30:18 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] OpenSolaris 2nd Birthday Picnic Message-ID: <19225783.1181262658994.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Ben Rockwood is working on getting a project together to get the picnic going. He has already reserved the location of the Amphitheatre at Baylands Park in Sunnyvale on Saturday June 16th. Joyent has already offered to pay for the cost of meat, which is awesome. There are basic things like tables, chairs, bbqs that we'll need to organize. Then details, like beverages, sides, napkins, etc. Also small events, like a place for kids (maybe a tshirt painting, face painting, balloon garden, OS pinata), maybe contests for the craziest OS project idea, the most pivotal moment a person has had while in the OS community, maybe even a voted OS homecoming King and Queen? Music would be provided by Weird Al CDs. I have more ideas for later. And getting the word out and getting people interested in attending :) It would be great if this was a huge event! I know it would really rally the troops as a community and get media out about the project, which would be great. I am really looking forward to getting this going! Thanks! Tamarah Rockwood tamr This message posted from opensolaris.org From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Jun 7 23:20:49 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:20:49 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Advocates (Advocacy) Community Group In-Reply-To: <4668A091.4020609@sun.com> References: <463056AA.50108@Sun.COM> <46513B2D.4030405@Sun.COM> <4668A091.4020609@sun.com> Message-ID: <4668F541.5020902@Sun.COM> Stephen Lau wrote: > We voted on this yesterday and it was approved unanimously. I believe > you will need the help of Derek to do the merger (who is on vacation at > the moment), but this has cleared the OGB. It's all merely technical > details from here on out ... ;-) > > (and I imagine this is rather complex for Derek to do, so please be > patient - this won't happen overnight) > > cheers, > steve Cool. Thanks, Steve. Jim > Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >> FYI: >> >> The OGB will vote on this formally when they have a full meeting (one >> member is out of town). Two members have said that the proposal looks >> fine, so we should be in good shape. >> >> Also, Ben Rockwood has proposed that the Immigrants Community be part >> of the merger: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/immigrants/ >> >> Ben's proposal on the OGB list: >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000520.html >> >> I think it's fine, but I wanted everyone to see in case anyone had an >> opinion either way. >> >> Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From dungeons at gmail.com Fri Jun 8 13:46:09 2007 From: dungeons at gmail.com (Pat Wendorf) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 16:46:09 -0400 Subject: [osol-mktg] Promotional Material for Software Freedom Day Message-ID: <2c2c47aa0706081346l73b4c341w656319197b834fd@mail.gmail.com> Just wondering if there is any plans for Sun to participate in Software Freedom Day this year (http://softwarefreedomday.org/). I only ask because our OSS-LUG (http://www.barrielug.org) is particpating this year and it would be great to have some representation from the Open Solaris community. - Pat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tamrockwood at yahoo.com Fri Jun 8 16:08:13 2007 From: tamrockwood at yahoo.com (Tamarah Rockwood) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:08:13 PDT Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: OpenSolaris 2nd Birthday Picnic In-Reply-To: <19225783.1181262658994.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <25732264.1181344124018.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Here is a link for the event: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/204238/?ps=6 People will be able to say whether they can attend, or just watch the event, on that site which will be very helpful so we can plan for the number of people coming. Ben and I will be posting information as we get it on our blogs http://cuddletech.com/tamr/index.php http://www.cuddletech.com/blog/ Thanks! tamr This message posted from opensolaris.org From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Sat Jun 9 06:25:04 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:25:04 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Project Proposal: OpenSolaris Picnic In-Reply-To: <4668A7AF.5090007@cuddletech.com> References: <4668A7AF.5090007@cuddletech.com> Message-ID: <466aaa30.egXaHMNCnR1Zq2gC%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Ben Rockwood wrote: > I'm getting everything setup for the OpenSolaris Picnic event scheduled > for June 16th. I'd like to create a Marketing "Project" for Let us meet on June 17th for this picnic and use the location where the first OpenSolaris distribution has been launched on June 17th. J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Wed Jun 13 08:04:12 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:04:12 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> Message-ID: <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Patrick Finch wrote: > > Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by > > Sun" mutually exclusive? > > They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had > asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have been > denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive is > pushing for this project. > > Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that people > think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". If Sun would name a distro "opensolaris" this would cause a big confusion for many people. J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 08:26:19 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:26:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2007, Joerg Schilling wrote: > Alan Coopersmith wrote: > >> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by >>> Sun" mutually exclusive? >> >> They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had >> asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have been >> denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive is >> pushing for this project. >> >> Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that people >> think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". > > If Sun would name a distro "opensolaris" this would cause a big confusion > for many people. I totally agree, however, IMO, if the OpenSolaris Community were to name a distro OpenSolaris, it would not cause much confusion. My personal interpretation[1] of that kind of scenario is that we (the OpenSolaris Community) could do the following: - Follow the group voting procedures documented in the constitution. - Subsequently, if there is a positive result from the vote, collaborate with Sun (the Software Marketing group would be my guess) on terms. That is, for the specific use of the word OpenSolaris that was voted on. Thoughts anyone? Eric 1. Which is to say, not Sun's interpretation nor anyone else's. From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 11:59:14 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:59:14 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of confusing people should disqualify the idea. Patrick Joerg Schilling wrote: > Alan Coopersmith wrote: > >> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by >>> Sun" mutually exclusive? >> They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had >> asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have been >> denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive is >> pushing for this project. >> >> Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that people >> think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". > > If Sun would name a distro "opensolaris" this would cause a big confusion > for many people. > > J?rg > From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Wed Jun 13 13:07:14 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:07:14 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> Message-ID: <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Patrick Finch wrote: > Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to > communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the > confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. > > I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro > "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of > confusing people should disqualify the idea. Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for diesel oil product? There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" is not a product name but the name for a software base. J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 13:21:15 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:21:15 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> Joerg Schilling wrote: > Patrick Finch wrote: > > >> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the >> confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >> >> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >> > > Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for > diesel oil product? > I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common practice and expected. > There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" > is not a product name but the name for a software base. > > J?rg > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 13 13:31:32 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:31:32 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> Message-ID: <46705424.2030705@sun.com> Patrick Finch wrote: > Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to > communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the > confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. > > I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro > "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of > confusing people should disqualify the idea. Well it depends. There seems to be a disconnect across the Sun corporation as to *what* OpenSolaris is... which is partially what has led to the current confusion as to what OpenSolaris is. Ignoring the trademark issue aside for now, if you changed what OpenSolaris is (i.e.: now it's a whizzy distribution), but you don't change the messaging: then it *WILL* still be confusing to people. If you change what OpenSolaris is, but you unify the messaging coming out of Sun as to what OpenSolaris is so that we're all behind it 100%, then I think we'll be fine (once we get over the initial confusion of switching) Sorry did that make sense? cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 13 13:32:21 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:32:21 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <46705455.5030107@sun.com> Joerg Schilling wrote: > Patrick Finch wrote: > >> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the >> confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >> >> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >> confusing people should disqualify the idea. > > Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for > diesel oil product? > > There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" > is not a product name but the name for a software base. ... but people *haven't* learned that OpenSolaris is not a product name. Look how many messages continue to come into opensolaris-discuss that say things like "I just installed OpenSolaris V10". cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 13 13:33:53 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:33:53 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> Message-ID: <467054B1.5000109@sun.com> Sara Dornsife wrote: > Joerg Schilling wrote: >> Patrick Finch wrote: >> >> >>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the >>> confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>> >>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >>> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>> >> >> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >> diesel oil product? >> > > I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or > Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM > (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common > practice and expected. And when you go to Sun's Solaris Express page and download Solaris Express, you get Solaris Express. And when you go to Belenix's page and download Belenix, you get Belenix. ... the better analogy (for our current situation) is you go to http://www.linux.org Do you get Linux? No, you get information about Linux with pointers to various distributions of Linux. ... not unlike what you get at opensolaris.org. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Wed Jun 13 13:36:26 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:36:26 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46705424.2030705@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46705424.2030705@sun.com> Message-ID: <4670554A.8090409@sun.com> Stephen Lau wrote: > Patrick Finch wrote: >> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with >> the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >> >> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >> confusing people should disqualify the idea. > > Well it depends. There seems to be a disconnect across the Sun > corporation as to *what* OpenSolaris is... Which is why I keep seeing banner ads that say "Solaris 10: Free and Open Source" that Sun buys on various websites to add to the confusion. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 13 13:40:14 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:40:14 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4670554A.8090409@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46705424.2030705@sun.com> <4670554A.8090409@sun.com> Message-ID: <4670562E.4010807@sun.com> Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Stephen Lau wrote: >> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with >>> the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>> >>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >>> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >> >> Well it depends. There seems to be a disconnect across the Sun >> corporation as to *what* OpenSolaris is... > > Which is why I keep seeing banner ads that say "Solaris 10: Free and > Open Source" that Sun buys on various websites to add to the confusion. > Yup, the disconnect spans Sun in its entirety: executives, engineering, marketing, management. :( -steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From michelle.olson at sun.com Wed Jun 13 13:44:10 2007 From: michelle.olson at sun.com (michelle olson) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:44:10 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> Message-ID: <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> Hi Sara, Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go to fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines and read about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. This is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to 'stay tuned'. Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How about a mailing list for questions? These details and information about how any of these rules are going to change in support of the new effort is the critical information that we need to provide. Thanks, Michelle Sara Dornsife wrote: > Joerg Schilling wrote: >> Patrick Finch wrote: >> >> >>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the >>> confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>> >>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >>> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>> >> >> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >> diesel oil product? >> > > I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or > Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM > (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common > practice and expected. > >> There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" >> is not a product name but the name for a software base. >> >> J?rg >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 13:57:46 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:57:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> Message-ID: Patrick Finch wrote: > .. > ... For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the confusion that > "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS... Is there anybody here who hasn't been? In my opinion, this represents a huge, self-inflicted disconnect that exists between us (The OpenSolaris Community) and the broader UNIX/Linux community that needs to be fixed... somehow. So I hope we make so -- "by hook or by crook!" as my mother would say. Oh, and applause to Ian and Glynn for shining a big spotlight on this problem too. -Eric "The audience is never wrong. Never." - William Friedkin From Simon.Phipps at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 14:08:16 2007 From: Simon.Phipps at Sun.COM (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:08:16 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> Message-ID: On Jun 13, 2007, at 21:44, michelle olson wrote: > Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I > go to fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/ > TrademarkGuidelines and read about the trademark usage, I get > information that makes sense. This is not the case when I go to > http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I get information that is out > of date, promises not kept and a message to 'stay tuned'. The content of the page appears to my eyes to be correct and to be in- sync with the Constitution, and the last-updated date in March is old but not ancient. I believe you are being too harsh. We certainly do need answers from Sun. In the current context of change we may need some questions /to/ Sun first, though. > Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the > trademark? Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How > about a mailing list for questions? These details and information > about how any of these rules are going to change in support of the > new effort is the critical information that we need to provide. Great questions. But since the "new effort" is too new to have any plans yet, it's premature to expect this page to be decided in advance of it. I can't get over the way folk keep assuming Sun is orchestrating a behind-the scenes game and then by turns criticise Sun for either doing so or for failing to do so. S. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2494 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 14:18:58 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:18:58 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> Message-ID: <46705F42.8020600@sun.com> michelle olson wrote: > Hi Sara, > > Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go > to fedora web site > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines and read about > the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. This is not > the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I get > information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to > 'stay tuned'. > > Will we be fixing that? Yes > Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? To a point. The TM will always be protected. Not only because it belongs to Sun, but because it is the right thing to do. > Under what conditions? Let's open that up. I can act as an intermediary with Sun on this. What are we looking for? > Will there be guidelines? Definitely. I will reread the Fedora ones for a baseline. If there are any other sources anyone thinks are good, I'd be happy to reference them as well. > How about a mailing list for questions? That's a great idea. The marketing community can sponsor. Trademarks at opensolaris.org? > These details and information about how any of these rules are going > to change in support of the new effort is the critical information > that we need to provide. Agreed > > Thanks, > Michelle > > Sara Dornsife wrote: >> Joerg Schilling wrote: >>> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing >>>> with the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>>> >>>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk >>>> of confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>>> >>> >>> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >>> diesel oil product? >>> >> >> I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or >> Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM >> (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common >> practice and expected. >> >>> There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" >>> is not a product name but the name for a software base. >>> >>> J?rg >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > From dirk.wetter at drwetter.org Wed Jun 13 14:17:13 2007 From: dirk.wetter at drwetter.org (Dirk Wetter) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:17:13 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> Message-ID: <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> Hi Sara, Michelle, Am 13.06.07 22:44, michelle olson schrieb: > Hi Sara, > > Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go to > fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines > and read about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. > This is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I > get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to > 'stay tuned'. > > Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? > Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How about a mailing > list for questions? These details and information about how any of these > rules are going to change in support of the new effort is the critical > information that we need to provide. It's kind of off topic but since you and Sara seems to be reading this: if you install SXDE/SXCR you get all over the place Solaris, not OpenSolaris logos. That is also inconsistent and it is probably confusing everybody outside Sun. If you install the community distribution OpenSuse you will see logos/coporate look and feel of the community distribution Opensuse, but not of Novell's commercial counter part SLED/SLES. Same with Fedora/RHEL. Isn't this the way it should be? Cheers, Dirk PS: RHEL= Red Hat Enterprise Linux SLES/D= Suse Enterprise Server/Desktop > Thanks, > Michelle > > Sara Dornsife wrote: >> Joerg Schilling wrote: >>> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with >>>> the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>>> >>>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >>>> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>>> >>> >>> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >>> diesel oil product? >>> >> >> I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or >> Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM >> (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common >> practice and expected. >> >>> There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" >>> is not a product name but the name for a software base. >>> >>> J?rg >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org -- Dirk Wetter @ Dr. Wetter IT-Consulting http://drwetter.org Beratung IT-Sicherheit + Open Source Key fingerprint = 2AD6 BE0F 9863 C82D 21B3 64E5 C967 34D8 11B7 C62F - Found core file older than 7 days: /usr/share/man/man5/core.5.gz From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 13 14:39:26 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:39:26 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> Message-ID: <4670640E.2070301@sun.com> Dirk Wetter wrote: > Hi Sara, Michelle, > > Am 13.06.07 22:44, michelle olson schrieb: >> Hi Sara, >> >> Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go to >> fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines >> and read about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. >> This is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I >> get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to >> 'stay tuned'. >> >> Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? >> Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How about a mailing >> list for questions? These details and information about how any of these >> rules are going to change in support of the new effort is the critical >> information that we need to provide. > > It's kind of off topic but since you and Sara seems to be reading this: if > you install SXDE/SXCR you get all over the place Solaris, not OpenSolaris > logos. That is also inconsistent and it is probably confusing everybody > outside Sun. That's perfectly reasonable. Solaris is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris. Sun does not (currently) ship a binary distribution called OpenSolaris. > If you install the community distribution OpenSuse you will see > logos/coporate look and feel of the community distribution Opensuse, but > not of Novell's commercial counter part SLED/SLES. Same with Fedora/RHEL. > > Isn't this the way it should be? 10 PRINT "OpenSolaris is not a distribution." 20 GOTO 10 :) cheers, steve (woohoo... I haven't written BASIC in years) -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From binarycrusader at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 14:40:24 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:40:24 -0500 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> Message-ID: On 13/06/07, Dirk Wetter wrote: > Hi Sara, Michelle, > > Am 13.06.07 22:44, michelle olson schrieb: > > Hi Sara, > > > > Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go to > > fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines > > and read about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. > > This is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I > > get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to > > 'stay tuned'. > > > > Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? > > Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How about a mailing > > list for questions? These details and information about how any of these > > rules are going to change in support of the new effort is the critical > > information that we need to provide. > > It's kind of off topic but since you and Sara seems to be reading this: if > you install SXDE/SXCR you get all over the place Solaris, not OpenSolaris > logos. That is also inconsistent and it is probably confusing everybody > outside Sun. > > If you install the community distribution OpenSuse you will see > logos/coporate look and feel of the community distribution Opensuse, but > not of Novell's commercial counter part SLED/SLES. Same with Fedora/RHEL. > > Isn't this the way it should be? No, since at this point, Solaris Express is still a Sun product. And in the case of SXDE, one you can buy support from Sun for. Fedora, in contrast, is not something you can buy support for from RedHat, and is purposefully distanced from it. The only way what you suggest will work is if we actually have an OpenSolaris distribution. -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 14:43:21 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:43:21 -0500 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> Message-ID: <467064F9.3030808@sun.com> > It's kind of off topic but since you and Sara seems to be reading this: if > you install SXDE/SXCR you get all over the place Solaris, not OpenSolaris > logos. That is also inconsistent and it is probably confusing everybody > outside Sun. > > If you install the community distribution OpenSuse you will see > logos/coporate look and feel of the community distribution Opensuse, but > not of Novell's commercial counter part SLED/SLES. Same with Fedora/RHEL. > > Isn't this the way it should be? > Not off topic actually as it speaks to the branding of the Sun distribution. This goes to the TM questions that Michelle was asking. I don't think we have answers yet, but where the OpenSolaris TM can and should be used are questions that we should all be asking. You are illustrating one of the places TMs are used. > > Cheers, > Dirk > > PS: RHEL= Red Hat Enterprise Linux > SLES/D= Suse Enterprise Server/Desktop > > >> Thanks, >> Michelle >> >> Sara Dornsife wrote: >> >>> Joerg Schilling wrote: >>> >>>> Patrick Finch wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>>>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with >>>>> the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>>>> >>>>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>>>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >>>>> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >>>> diesel oil product? >>>> >>>> >>> I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or >>> Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM >>> (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common >>> practice and expected. >>> >>> >>>> There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" >>>> is not a product name but the name for a software base. >>>> >>>> J?rg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >>> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ug-discuss mailing list >> ug-discuss at opensolaris.org >> > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 14:46:48 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:46:48 -0500 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> Message-ID: <467065C8.1060401@sun.com> > No, since at this point, Solaris Express is still a Sun product. And > in the case of SXDE, one you can buy support from Sun for. > > Fedora, in contrast, is not something you can buy support for from > RedHat, and is purposefully distanced from it. > > The only way what you suggest will work is if we actually have an > OpenSolaris distribution. But he is pointing out the full scope of the TM dilemma we need to resolve. I was thinking about where (if anywhere at all) the OpenSolaris TM would appear in any distro. If we are going to go ask Sun for broader usage rights to have the name for a distribution, we should outline every use possible. From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 15:06:10 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:06:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46705F42.8020600@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705F42.8020600@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2007, Sara Dornsife wrote: > michelle olson wrote: > > > > Under what conditions? > > > > Let's open that up. I can act as an intermediary with Sun on this. What are > we looking for? .. Thanks Sara. In addition to exploring general usage guidelines, I'd like to suggest we speculate on the following (from a post made earlier today). This scenario, by contrast, would involve a specific-use kind of clearance. --Eric _______________________________________________ Subject: Re: Sponsor Project Indiana From: Eric Boutilier On Wed, 13 Jun 2007, Joerg Schilling wrote: > Alan Coopersmith wrote: > > > Patrick Finch wrote: > > > Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by > > > Sun" mutually exclusive? > > > > They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had > > asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have > > been > > denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive > > is > > pushing for this project. > > > > Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that > > people > > think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". > > If Sun would name a distro "opensolaris" this would cause a big confusion > for many people. I totally agree, however, IMO, if the OpenSolaris Community were to name a distro OpenSolaris, it would not cause much confusion. My personal interpretation[1] of that kind of scenario is that we (the OpenSolaris Community) could do the following: - Follow the group voting procedures documented in the constitution. - Subsequently, if there is a positive result from the vote, collaborate with Sun (the Software Marketing group would be my guess) on terms. That is, for the specific use of the word OpenSolaris that was voted on. ... Eric 1. Which is to say, not Sun's interpretation nor anyone else's. _______________________________________________ From michelle.olson at sun.com Wed Jun 13 16:01:25 2007 From: michelle.olson at sun.com (michelle olson) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:01:25 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46705F42.8020600@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705F42.8020600@sun.com> Message-ID: <46707745.9080202@sun.com> Hi, Sara Dornsife wrote: > michelle olson wrote: >> Hi Sara, >> >> Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go >> to fedora web site >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines and read >> about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. This >> is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I >> get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message >> to 'stay tuned'. >> >> Will we be fixing that? > > Yes Cool, I know we have fan buttons, we could at least update that with a live link now, I think. > >> Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? > > To a point. The TM will always be protected. Not only because it > belongs to Sun, but because it is the right thing to do. Can you be any more specific about 'to a point'? If you can't elaborate today, that is fine, I think it is important to just let folks know that there will be some new opportunity to use the trademark if that is coming. > >> Under what conditions? > > Let's open that up. I can act as an intermediary with Sun on this. > What are we looking for? Awesome, I really appreciate your help to do this. For my part, I think folks today who write documents in support of OpenSolaris can title them 'XYZ Debugging Guide for the OpenSolaris Project'. It would be nice if they could put the actual, colorful, wordmark on the document. This is just an example, tons of folks have asked me for branded templates for content they write to support the project, but I haven't provided that because of the trademark issue. For another case, I think it would be nice incentive for folks to contribute to the OpenSolaris distribution if they knew that they themselves could use the trademark to promote their own work. Maybe that is crazy-talk, but that is really what I've been thinking about. So, maybe core contributors get rights to use?...back to the dang contributor list! :) > >> Will there be guidelines? > > Definitely. I will reread the Fedora ones for a baseline. If there are > any other sources anyone thinks are good, I'd be happy to reference > them as well. Great, thanks. Guidelines for the kinds of cases above (writing a document, passing out distro copies) that were global for opensolaris would be great. I'm happy to help out with reviews of the document. > >> How about a mailing list for questions? > > That's a great idea. The marketing community can sponsor. > Trademarks at opensolaris.org? Sounds good to me. I think we just need to request this from website discuss nowadays. > >> These details and information about how any of these rules are going >> to change in support of the new effort is the critical information >> that we need to provide. > > Agreed Cool. -Michelle > >> >> Thanks, >> Michelle >> >> Sara Dornsife wrote: >>> Joerg Schilling wrote: >>>> Patrick Finch wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>>>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing >>>>> with the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>>>> >>>>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>>>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk >>>>> of confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >>>> diesel oil product? >>>> >>> >>> I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or >>> Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or >>> SugarCRM (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It >>> is common practice and expected. >>> >>>> There are other similar cases. People just did learn that >>>> "OpenSolaris" >>>> is not a product name but the name for a software base. >>>> >>>> J?rg >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >>> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org >> From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 13 16:13:42 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:13:42 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: <4670752E.40209@drwetter.org> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> <4670640E.2070301@sun.com> <4670752E.40209@drwetter.org> Message-ID: <46707A26.4090002@sun.com> Dirk Wetter wrote: > Am 13.06.07 23:39, Stephen Lau schrieb: >> Dirk Wetter wrote: >>> Hi Sara, Michelle, >>> >>> Am 13.06.07 22:44, michelle olson schrieb: >>>> Hi Sara, >>>> >>>> Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go to >>>> fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines >>>> and read about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. >>>> This is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I >>>> get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to >>>> 'stay tuned'. >>>> >>>> Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? >>>> Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How about a mailing >>>> list for questions? These details and information about how any of these >>>> rules are going to change in support of the new effort is the critical >>>> information that we need to provide. >>> It's kind of off topic but since you and Sara seems to be reading >>> this: if >>> you install SXDE/SXCR you get all over the place Solaris, not OpenSolaris >>> logos. That is also inconsistent and it is probably confusing everybody >>> outside Sun. >> That's perfectly reasonable. Solaris is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris. > > Sorry Stephen, but RHEL is also Red Hat's distribution of Fedora Core. That > was my point you just underlined. So why do you expect OpenSolaris logos in Solaris? I don't recall seeing Fedora logos in RHEL (maybe I'm wrong though?) > Your argument should have been "SX?E is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris". SXDE/SXCE are merely marketing labels for the product named Solaris, which is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris. >> Sun does not (currently) ship a binary distribution called OpenSolaris. > > If there is a COMMUNITY distribution there should IMHO be no logos of Sun > in there unless want to insinuate "hey, we open sourced our code, but it's > still ours and may be it'll be in the future". Or just don't name it > "community" and don't host discussions on that on opensolaris.org. This all > independent of what happens with Indiana. Agreed. But SX?E is not that community distribution. > It kind of reminded me on the 'The Register' article Ian quoted in his > blog. Sun is confusing everybody. :-) You should get the naming and > apperance better and may be a little bit more consistent in what steak > comes from which cow and stands on which pasture ground. I completely agree. The messaging is confusing - but the actual original message we all agreed on is perfectly clear. In this case, shoot the messenger. > Hopefully recent discussions bring this also a leap forward. I hope for that too. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From dirk.wetter at drwetter.org Wed Jun 13 15:52:30 2007 From: dirk.wetter at drwetter.org (Dirk Wetter) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:52:30 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: <4670640E.2070301@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> <4670640E.2070301@sun.com> Message-ID: <4670752E.40209@drwetter.org> Am 13.06.07 23:39, Stephen Lau schrieb: > Dirk Wetter wrote: >> Hi Sara, Michelle, >> >> Am 13.06.07 22:44, michelle olson schrieb: >>> Hi Sara, >>> >>> Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go to >>> fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines >>> and read about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. >>> This is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I >>> get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to >>> 'stay tuned'. >>> >>> Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? >>> Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How about a mailing >>> list for questions? These details and information about how any of these >>> rules are going to change in support of the new effort is the critical >>> information that we need to provide. >> >> It's kind of off topic but since you and Sara seems to be reading >> this: if >> you install SXDE/SXCR you get all over the place Solaris, not OpenSolaris >> logos. That is also inconsistent and it is probably confusing everybody >> outside Sun. > > That's perfectly reasonable. Solaris is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris. Sorry Stephen, but RHEL is also Red Hat's distribution of Fedora Core. That was my point you just underlined. Your argument should have been "SX?E is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris". > Sun does not (currently) ship a binary distribution called OpenSolaris. If there is a COMMUNITY distribution there should IMHO be no logos of Sun in there unless want to insinuate "hey, we open sourced our code, but it's still ours and may be it'll be in the future". Or just don't name it "community" and don't host discussions on that on opensolaris.org. This all independent of what happens with Indiana. It kind of reminded me on the 'The Register' article Ian quoted in his blog. Sun is confusing everybody. :-) You should get the naming and apperance better and may be a little bit more consistent in what steak comes from which cow and stands on which pasture ground. Hopefully recent discussions bring this also a leap forward. Cheers, Dirk >> If you install the community distribution OpenSuse you will see >> logos/coporate look and feel of the community distribution Opensuse, but >> not of Novell's commercial counter part SLED/SLES. Same with Fedora/RHEL. >> >> Isn't this the way it should be? > > 10 PRINT "OpenSolaris is not a distribution." > 20 GOTO 10 > > :) Hopefully there's no serious code you've written like this anywhere ;-) [SCNR, that was just a too good invitation :-) ] > > cheers, > steve > (woohoo... I haven't written BASIC in years) -- Dirk Wetter @ Dr. Wetter IT Consulting http://drwetter.org Beratung IT-Sicherheit + Open Source Key fingerprint = 2AD6 BE0F 9863 C82D 21B3 64E5 C967 34D8 11B7 C62F - "We're Germans and we use Unix. That's a combination of two demographic groups known to have no sense of humour whatsoever." From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 23:39:34 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:39:34 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4670554A.8090409@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46705424.2030705@sun.com> <4670554A.8090409@sun.com> Message-ID: <4670E2A6.8090207@Sun.COM> Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Stephen Lau wrote: > >> Patrick Finch wrote: >> >>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with >>> the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>> >>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >>> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >> >> >> Well it depends. There seems to be a disconnect across the Sun >> corporation as to *what* OpenSolaris is... > > > Which is why I keep seeing banner ads that say "Solaris 10: Free and > Open Source" that Sun buys on various websites to add to the confusion. From a communications perspective, explaining OpenSolaris is extremely challenging when you consider all the diverse audiences around the world: customers and partners, competitors, governments, press and analysts, developers, administrators, users, university students/professors, etc. The fact that Sun keeps saying that "Solaris" is open source doesn't help, but I can really sympathize with that since in some markets it actually makes good sense to position the product that way. Whenever I talk to people I always say that Solaris is Sun's supported binary product. It's closed. OpenSolaris is a subset of the source code for Solaris. It's open. At that level it's not confusing at all. It gets confusing when we try to make it out to be more than it is and explain all that across all audiences in all markets simultaneously. If Indy can solve that problem, cool. I'm all for it. I doubt that it can in the short term, though. I think this will take years to clear up, and I don't see any problem with that whatsoever. Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris -- From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 01:11:31 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:11:31 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Advocacy Merger -- Step One: List Message-ID: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> Hi ... As we begin to merge the User Group Community, the Marketing Community, and the Immigrants Community into the new Advocacy Community Group, I think a good way to start is to merge the three main discuss lists first so we don't have to keep cc'ing three lists while we work on all this. So, we'd be merging immigrants-discuss, opensolaris-mktg, and ug-discuss into advocacy-discuss. The new Advocacy Community Group will be able to open new lists for new purposes over time, of course, but we need one general discuss list for community-wide issues. We could potentially be the largest community on the site, so a central list is needed. After the list merger, we'd probably give a short period of time and then archive the three old lists and move on from there to setting up the community space, moving documents, writing new stuff, doing the re-directs, etc. Everyone ok with merging the lists as a first step? Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris -- From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 01:23:12 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:23:12 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Advocacy Merger -- Step One: List In-Reply-To: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> References: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4670FAF0.5060706@sun.com> I think it's a very good idea. Patrick Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Hi ... > > As we begin to merge the User Group Community, the Marketing Community, > and the Immigrants Community into the new Advocacy Community Group, I > think a good way to start is to merge the three main discuss lists first > so we don't have to keep cc'ing three lists while we work on all this. > > So, we'd be merging immigrants-discuss, opensolaris-mktg, and ug-discuss > into advocacy-discuss. The new Advocacy Community Group will be able to > open new lists for new purposes over time, of course, but we need one > general discuss list for community-wide issues. We could potentially be > the largest community on the site, so a central list is needed. After > the list merger, we'd probably give a short period of time and then > archive the three old lists and move on from there to setting up the > community space, moving documents, writing new stuff, doing the > re-directs, etc. > > Everyone ok with merging the lists as a first step? > > Jim From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 02:01:14 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:01:14 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4670E2A6.8090207@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46705424.2030705@sun.com> <4670554A.8090409@sun.com> <4670E2A6.8090207@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <467103DA.9050905@sun.com> Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Alan Coopersmith wrote: >> Stephen Lau wrote: >> >>> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> >>>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with >>>> the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>>> >>>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >>>> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>> >>> >>> Well it depends. There seems to be a disconnect across the Sun >>> corporation as to *what* OpenSolaris is... >> >> >> Which is why I keep seeing banner ads that say "Solaris 10: Free and >> Open Source" that Sun buys on various websites to add to the confusion. > > > From a communications perspective, explaining OpenSolaris is extremely > challenging when you consider all the diverse audiences around the > world: customers and partners, competitors, governments, press and > analysts, developers, administrators, users, university > students/professors, etc. The fact that Sun keeps saying that "Solaris" > is open source doesn't help, but I can really sympathize with that since > in some markets it actually makes good sense to position the product > that way. It does, and am guilty of this sometimes, as Sun's competitors continue to position Solaris as entirely proprietary. > Whenever I talk to people I always say that Solaris is Sun's supported > binary product. It's closed. OpenSolaris is a subset of the source code > for Solaris. It's open. At that level it's not confusing at all. It gets > confusing when we try to make it out to be more than it is and explain > all that across all audiences in all markets simultaneously. If Indy can > solve that problem, cool. I'm all for it. I doubt that it can in the > short term, though. I think this will take years to clear up, and I > don't see any problem with that whatsoever. Yes, that is very a good way to clarify what OpenSolaris is. Beyond the semantic challenge though, there are a lot of people out there who are interested in trying this technology out, and are looking for a community: if I try a Linux distro I look to its community for help. The message we risk giving to potential users is that the OpenSolaris community is not the place for them. Patrick From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Thu Jun 14 02:35:21 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:35:21 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> Message-ID: <46710bd9.v0+nfgP6ruIpufIx%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Sara Dornsife wrote: > > Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for > > diesel oil product? > > > > I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or > Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM > (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common > practice and expected. If there is only one single product from a specific source, this is no problem. If the differences are very small or if only a single variant exists for a distro (as e.g. with OpenOffice) things are easy. OpenSolaris is different. J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Simon.Phipps at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 02:53:05 2007 From: Simon.Phipps at Sun.COM (Simon Phipps) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:53:05 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Advocacy Merger -- Step One: List In-Reply-To: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> References: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <687F4533-1DC0-4B01-9AB2-24758BF03E1F@Sun.COM> On Jun 14, 2007, at 09:11, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Hi ... > > As we begin to merge the User Group Community, the Marketing > Community, and the Immigrants Community into the new Advocacy > Community Group, I think a good way to start is to merge the three > main discuss lists first so we don't have to keep cc'ing three > lists while we work on all this. > > So, we'd be merging immigrants-discuss, opensolaris-mktg, and ug- > discuss into advocacy-discuss. The new Advocacy Community Group > will be able to open new lists for new purposes over time, of > course, but we need one general discuss list for community-wide > issues. We could potentially be the largest community on the site, > so a central list is needed. After the list merger, we'd probably > give a short period of time and then archive the three old lists > and move on from there to setting up the community space, moving > documents, writing new stuff, doing the re-directs, etc. > > Everyone ok with merging the lists as a first step? Assuming that the archives will be preserved, that seems a great move. We can then establish whatever additional lists the new Community Group needs as it becomes obvious they are needed. S. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2494 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 02:56:01 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:56:01 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46710bd9.v0+nfgP6ruIpufIx%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <46710bd9.v0+nfgP6ruIpufIx%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <467110B1.6050507@sun.com> Joerg Schilling wrote: > Sara Dornsife wrote: > >>> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >>> diesel oil product? >>> >> I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or >> Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM >> (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common >> practice and expected. > > If there is only one single product from a specific source, this is no problem. > If the differences are very small or if only a single variant exists for > a distro (as e.g. with OpenOffice) things are easy. OpenSolaris is different. > > J?rg > That's incorrect about OpenOffice.org OpenOffice.org has guidelines for different distributions, (some, but not all of which are ports or localisations) at http://distribution.openoffice.org/ So OpenOffice.org is the community, the code base, its own distribution and has many other distributions, including OxygenOffice Professional, NeoOffice, 602Office, Jambo OpenOffice, RomanianOffice, RedOffice etc. Patrick From webmink at sun.com Thu Jun 14 03:09:01 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:09:01 +0100 Subject: [osol-mktg] Describing OpenSolaris (was: Re: Sponsor Project Indiana) In-Reply-To: <4670E2A6.8090207@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46705424.2030705@sun.com> <4670554A.8090409@sun.com> <4670E2A6.8090207@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Jun 14, 2007, at 07:39, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > From a communications perspective, explaining OpenSolaris is > extremely challenging when you consider all the diverse audiences > around the world: customers and partners, competitors, governments, > press and analysts, developers, administrators, users, university > students/professors, etc. It's overwhelmingly challenging since most people outside our community really don't have the background to make the distinction. People refer to RHEL as "open source" when in fact it contains things that are not. In common discussion, Solaris /is/ "open source" since the source code that made a large part of it is now under a Free license. The fact that the source to Solaris 10 has been opened so that future versions can be fully Free is great news. While it is pedantically correct to say that Solaris 10 is not "open source", the same standard applied to other things that it is normal to call "open source" would also disqualify them. Right or wrong, most people don't bother with the distinction. > The fact that Sun keeps saying that "Solaris" is open source > doesn't help, but I can really sympathize with that since in some > markets it actually makes good sense to position the product that way. We're a community of geeks and pedants (I stand guilty as charged) but we have to recognise that, in the world outside our community, people do and will always simplify and generalise and in the process move into territory that is pedantically incorrect. I'd assert that the people at Sun who have written those materials are actually / correct/ to do so. Educating the world to continue to treat Solaris as "proprietary" or "closed" is not in anyone's interests - well, apart from people who want to perpetuate the false division of the Unix family. S. From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 05:37:24 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:37:24 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] some updated stats Message-ID: <46713684.9060504@sun.com> All, as it's the 2nd anniversary of the opening, I refreshed a few metrics: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/marketing/metrics/latest/ You can see the sharp increase in registrations since get.opensolaris.org went live late February. The trend without the kit was such that we'd have around 30,000 registered members without it. Patrick From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 07:11:52 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:11:52 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] Advocacy Merger -- Step One: List In-Reply-To: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> References: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46714CA8.2000700@sun.com> Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Sara Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Hi ... > > As we begin to merge the User Group Community, the Marketing > Community, and the Immigrants Community into the new Advocacy > Community Group, I think a good way to start is to merge the three > main discuss lists first so we don't have to keep cc'ing three lists > while we work on all this. > > So, we'd be merging immigrants-discuss, opensolaris-mktg, and > ug-discuss into advocacy-discuss. The new Advocacy Community Group > will be able to open new lists for new purposes over time, of course, > but we need one general discuss list for community-wide issues. We > could potentially be the largest community on the site, so a central > list is needed. After the list merger, we'd probably give a short > period of time and then archive the three old lists and move on from > there to setting up the community space, moving documents, writing new > stuff, doing the re-directs, etc. > > Everyone ok with merging the lists as a first step? > > Jim From stevel at sun.com Thu Jun 14 08:43:27 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:43:27 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Advocacy Merger -- Step One: List In-Reply-To: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> References: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4671621F.6010709@sun.com> Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Hi ... > > As we begin to merge the User Group Community, the Marketing Community, > and the Immigrants Community into the new Advocacy Community Group, I > think a good way to start is to merge the three main discuss lists first > so we don't have to keep cc'ing three lists while we work on all this. > > So, we'd be merging immigrants-discuss, opensolaris-mktg, and ug-discuss > into advocacy-discuss. The new Advocacy Community Group will be able to > open new lists for new purposes over time, of course, but we need one > general discuss list for community-wide issues. We could potentially be > the largest community on the site, so a central list is needed. After > the list merger, we'd probably give a short period of time and then > archive the three old lists and move on from there to setting up the > community space, moving documents, writing new stuff, doing the > re-directs, etc. > > Everyone ok with merging the lists as a first step? > > Jim Makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for starting this step Jim. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Frank.Vanderlinden at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 11:08:33 2007 From: Frank.Vanderlinden at Sun.COM (Frank Van Der Linden) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:08:33 +0200 Subject: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4670E2A6.8090207@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46705424.2030705@sun.com> <4670554A.8090409@sun.com> <4670E2A6.8090207@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46718421.8030104@Sun.COM> Jim Grisanzio wrote: > > From a communications perspective, explaining OpenSolaris is extremely > challenging when you consider all the diverse audiences around the > world: customers and partners, competitors, governments, press and > analysts, developers, administrators, users, university > students/professors, etc. The fact that Sun keeps saying that > "Solaris" is open source doesn't help, but I can really sympathize > with that since in some markets it actually makes good sense to > position the product that way. > > Whenever I talk to people I always say that Solaris is Sun's supported > binary product. It's closed. OpenSolaris is a subset of the source > code for Solaris. It's open. At that level it's not confusing at all. > It gets confusing when we try to make it out to be more than it is and > explain all that across all audiences in all markets simultaneously. > If Indy can solve that problem, cool. I'm all for it. I doubt that it > can in the short term, though. I think this will take years to clear > up, and I don't see any problem with that whatsoever. You're right that there's a lot of confusion, and we haven't been able to clear that up. Especially not since a lot of people at Sun itself are confused and have been mixing "Solaris" and "OpenSolaris". Taking the line that OpenSolaris should have been a downloadable distribution would have been fine, if that had been the take from the start. Perhaps it should have been. But now it's too late for that. We made a promise that OpenSolaris is a codebase with an associated community. People have been creating distributions that are "OpenSolaris-based". If a distribution called "OpenSolaris" is created, they can't call themselves "OpenSolaris-based" anymore, because, well, they wouldn't be. And essentially, since the initiative would clearly have come from within Sun, the feeling would be that Sun "took back" the OpenSolaris name, and forced the other distributions to call themselves "Chopped Liver OS". I would have no objection to something like "OpenSolaris Community Edition"; I think that's cool. Just plain "OpenSolaris" would essentially be breaking a promise. - Frank From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 16:55:23 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 08:55:23 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Question for the Marketing Community Message-ID: <4671D56B.50000@Sun.COM> hey, guys, quick question: Does the Marketing Community sponsor or endorse any projects, or do you have any projects in the planning stages that will be opened soon? I'm just listing all the stuff that has to be merged into the Advocacy CG. Thanks, Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Teresa.Giacomini at Sun.COM Fri Jun 15 12:03:35 2007 From: Teresa.Giacomini at Sun.COM (Teresa.Giacomini at Sun.COM) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:03:35 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Advocacy Merger -- Step One: List In-Reply-To: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> References: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4672E287.1010501@Sun.COM> Sounds good to me. Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Hi ... > > As we begin to merge the User Group Community, the Marketing > Community, and the Immigrants Community into the new Advocacy > Community Group, I think a good way to start is to merge the three > main discuss lists first so we don't have to keep cc'ing three lists > while we work on all this. > > So, we'd be merging immigrants-discuss, opensolaris-mktg, and > ug-discuss into advocacy-discuss. The new Advocacy Community Group > will be able to open new lists for new purposes over time, of course, > but we need one general discuss list for community-wide issues. We > could potentially be the largest community on the site, so a central > list is needed. After the list merger, we'd probably give a short > period of time and then archive the three old lists and move on from > there to setting up the community space, moving documents, writing new > stuff, doing the re-directs, etc. > > Everyone ok with merging the lists as a first step? > > Jim From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Mon Jun 18 10:33:55 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:33:55 -0500 Subject: [osol-mktg] Question for the Marketing Community In-Reply-To: <4671D56B.50000@Sun.COM> References: <4671D56B.50000@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4676C203.7040001@sun.com> Not at this time. Although there is a request to start a mailing list to discuss Naming and Trademarks (not a project, but an FYI). Sara Jim Grisanzio wrote: > hey, guys, quick question: Does the Marketing Community sponsor or > endorse any projects, or do you have any projects in the planning stages > that will be opened soon? I'm just listing all the stuff that has to be > merged into the Advocacy CG. > > Thanks, > > Jim