From ihsan at dogan.ch Fri Jun 1 01:13:14 2007 From: ihsan at dogan.ch (Ihsan Dogan) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 10:13:14 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [csw-users] Like minded individuals let's start working on an "OpenSolaris.org" distro right now. In-Reply-To: <5b5090780705312231k3c588c09m6b72e75122c2ec03@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b5090780705312231k3c588c09m6b72e75122c2ec03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <465FD51A.2070604@dogan.ch> Hello Brian, Am 1.6.2007 7:31 Uhr, Brian Gupta schrieb: > This thread is for those that *ARE* interested in seeing an > OpenSolaris hosted distribution come to fruition. > > I am starting this in the approach-discuss community, because it is as > good a CG (Community Group) as any. I have cross posted to many other > communities that *I* felt might want to be a part of this discussion. > > I have also included the Blastwave community. (Blastwave folks, send > an email to approach-discuss-subscribe at opensolaris.org if you want to > be a part of the discussion). I apologize in advance for this massive > cross posting. I also hope that i did not leave out any CG, or > individual that should have been included. (Please feel free to let > them know to subscribe to approach-discuss) Can you provide us some more information about what the idea of the OpenSolaris.org distro is and what it's goals are? Ihsan -- ihsan at dogan.ch http://blog.dogan.ch/ http://gallery.dogan.ch/ http://ihsan.dogan.ch/ From brian.gupta at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 08:11:19 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 11:11:19 -0400 Subject: [ug-discuss] Why we should have an OpenSolaris Hosted binary set. [OSH-thread] Message-ID: <5b5090780706010811g7bce1cd5w15080f745593c957@mail.gmail.com> The purpose of this thread is threefold. First, I would like to start a focused discussion, as to why people would want an OSH (OpenSolaris Hosted) binary set, so that we can accommodate the widest set of needs with our efforts. (OSH as a hopefully non controversial working name). Second, this thread is meant as an educational thread, so that those who aren't convinced that there is a legitimate need for OSH, have been given the full story. Third I have started receiving questions regarding what the idea of an OpenSlaris distro is and what it's goals are. (In another thread, that I am trying to keep focused.) It is very important that these particular threads that I am starting keep focused for reasons that I hope are self explanatory. If you feel that there should be a new related thread of discussion, but potentially disruptive, please contact me offline, and I will work with you to start the thread, or point you to an existing thread that is already discussing said issue. (Even if it's not potentially disruptive.) Various drivers behind an effort to produce OSH. 1) There is a desire for a minimal/core OpenSolaris distro, that other distro packagers can leverage to create their own distros. Building a distro from this core *may*, in the future, allow other distros to also be hosted at OpenSolaris.org. This OS core must, for the sake of practicality, allow layers to be added on top to get to Nevada. 2) Currently their is no Open development platform. The only allowed development platform is, a closed source, proprietary platform: Sun Solaris (Express). Ideally guardianship for this development platform should be moved into the community. (Yes this seems in opposition to bullet #1, but keep reading) 3) Currently the barrier of entry to getting involved with OpenSolaris is high, both from a conceptual point of view, as well as a work required point of view. (I can't just download a ISO and install an up to date dev platform) 4) Currently the barrier to entry for immigrants is high. Driver support, that shall we say "does not lead the field". Installation and configuration can be confusing to those that have not studied Solaris. I think these are generally acknowledged as goals in the community, but this is where we have a distro that focuses on this issue specifically. 5) Although AOL has proved that mass mailings of optical media can be made into a scalable distribution model, this only worked because AOL self updated upon install. OpenSolaris needs a quicker and simpler distribution method. (Which allows free mirroring of ISOs, binary and source packages, without lengthy legal reviews. This ties into the desire to have a completely unencumbered base distro set) 6) Sun (Ian/Indiana/Others) wants a second Solaris distro that will be the Fedora to Sun's RHEL (Solaris). They wish to do this and still leave a clear migration path from one distro to another. (Unlike Fedora). ;) 7) Currently there isn't a method for non-Sun distros to offer optional non open source bits. We would want to establish a standard and precedent for doing so, that all distros could leverage. (I'm thinking mostly HW support issues). 8) Currently, by continuing to use closed source bits as the standard, there is minimal incentive to close (open?) the loop. 9) Current HW requirements are a bit on the high end. I can't run this on an old 386, or for that matter on an old P/PII I have lying around. I feel that if we set our goals properly we could accommodate all these desires and wishes within the Scope of a single "approachability" CG (community group) project. Some possible design criteria that could allow this to come to pass: 1) A goal to make all components fully modularized packages/components. This even applied to the ON (OS/Networking) consolidation. This will allow alternate distributions to very easily pick and choose components for their distribution. (Distributions would of course be free to ignore the reference and use their own build/packaging methods) This would also allow for the building of a very compact miinimal core, using the same components that are used to construct a "Complete" user focused distro. (Meeting the needs and desires of multiple groups, e.g. appliance builders, distro builders, hobbyists working w/ old HW, etc.) 2) Be strict about making the System fully Open Source (This is mandatory for this to be an OpenSolaris project). Optionally allow a method to pull in closed source bits if desired by the installer, or distro packager. (This would eventually require involvement by technical as well as legal participants). This said we would have to work out a prioritized roadmap, that covered everyone's desires. Please feel free to contact me offline, if you feel that there are flaws in what I have laid out. I don't want to clutter this thread with a large amount of dissident traffic. If you must reply on list, please completely change the topic. (No "was".) Let's please try to keep on topic. (Read the subject of the thread before hitting send). Please start reaching out to your User groups and see if we can find more interested parties there. Finally, I have decided to add a trailing tag of [OSH-thread] so that going forward anyone interested/not-interested in these threads that for now, I am starting, can setup an appropriate mail filter. Keep in mind that the only CG that I are focused on living in is "approachability" I think in the short term we will work in the general approach-discuss list, as time goes on I expect a project to form in approachability, and then when enough interest is established the project would earn promotion into a full OSCG (OpenSolaris Community Group.) -Brian P.S. - Remember if you want a new related thread, I ask that you please contact me offline, so that we can keep this discussions focused. From aruiz at gnome.org Fri Jun 1 10:21:37 2007 From: aruiz at gnome.org (Alberto Ruiz) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 18:21:37 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-discuss] Like minded individuals let's start working on an "OpenSolaris.org" distro right now. In-Reply-To: <5b5090780705312231k3c588c09m6b72e75122c2ec03@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b5090780705312231k3c588c09m6b72e75122c2ec03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46c5a0950706011021x39b388b7k4bcf4802b31c5ecd@mail.gmail.com> 2007/6/1, Brian Gupta : > > This thread is for those that *ARE* interested in seeing an > OpenSolaris hosted distribution come to fruition. I'm interested, and I'm willing to help, however, for me it's really hard to get a picture of what's needed and what tasks should be done in the short term. -- Un saludo, Alberto Ruiz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jek3 at sun.com Fri Jun 1 14:17:50 2007 From: jek3 at sun.com (Joseph Kowalski) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:17:50 -1000 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [sfwnv-discuss] Like minded individuals let's start working on an "OpenSolaris.org" distro right now. In-Reply-To: <5b5090780705312231k3c588c09m6b72e75122c2ec03@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b5090780705312231k3c588c09m6b72e75122c2ec03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46608CFE.2020404@sun.com> Brian Gupta wrote: > I also propose referring to this project as OSH (Just so we have a > non-controversial name to call it). Naming is something that should be > addressed later. Please, let's not belabor this point. OSH = "Orchid Supply Hardware", a hardware chain much like ACE, but without John Madden. Do you care? > P.S.S. - This is really the time to step up and reply, if you are in > favor of this. I find it strange that it is to be assumed that such a distribution is a "good thing" on this group. You say this discussion is happening elsewhere; could you point at those *ongoing* discussions? That said, it seems like you are asking people to sign-up to make this happen without the benefit being understood nor the costs being detailed. I don't know about others, but I don't make that kind of commitment for anything. However, if the purpose of this discussion is to detail the costs, while the benefits are being pursued in some other discussion, then I'm all for it. Is it? - jek3 From John.Plocher at Sun.COM Fri Jun 1 14:49:02 2007 From: John.Plocher at Sun.COM (John Plocher) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 14:49:02 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [approach-discuss] Re: [sfwnv-discuss] Like minded individuals let's start working on an "OpenSolaris.org" distro right now. In-Reply-To: <46608CFE.2020404@sun.com> References: <5b5090780705312231k3c588c09m6b72e75122c2ec03@mail.gmail.com> <46608CFE.2020404@sun.com> Message-ID: <4660944E.9010007@Sun.Com> Joseph Kowalski wrote: > However, if the purpose of this discussion is to detail the costs, while > the benefits are being pursued in some other discussion, then I'm all > for it. Thats why I'm here at least... -John From jek3 at sun.com Fri Jun 1 15:07:03 2007 From: jek3 at sun.com (Joseph Kowalski) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:07:03 -1000 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [sfwnv-discuss] Why we should have an OpenSolaris Hosted binary set. [OSH-thread] In-Reply-To: <5b5090780706010811g7bce1cd5w15080f745593c957@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b5090780706010811g7bce1cd5w15080f745593c957@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46609887.9020208@sun.com> Brian Gupta wrote: > > Various drivers behind an effort to produce OSH. > > 1) There is a desire for a minimal/core OpenSolaris distro, that other > distro packagers can leverage to create their own distros. Building a > distro from this core *may*, in the future, allow other distros to > also be hosted at OpenSolaris.org. This OS core must, for the sake of > practicality, allow layers to be added on top to get to Nevada. > > 2) Currently their is no Open development platform. The only allowed > development platform is, a closed source, proprietary platform: Sun > Solaris (Express). Ideally guardianship for this development platform > should be moved into the community. (Yes this seems in opposition to > bullet #1, but keep reading) #1 and #2 seem to make a lot of sense. #2 seems mostly a "free as in speech" issue, which I don't tend to care about, but I understand it is very important to some people. We all know, "free as in beer" is most important! :-) (Note the smiley - let's not start a discussion on this in general.) > 3) Currently the barrier of entry to getting involved with OpenSolaris > is high, both from a conceptual point of view, as well as a work > required point of view. (I can't just download a ISO and install an up > to date dev platform) What does this problem have to do with OSH? It seems like a separately addressable problem. Also, it is a problem Sun Solaris (express) knows about (as 50 e-mail in my inbox the last two days will attest to!). If you think this is fun, try OpenJDK. This, like "closed sources", tend to be a high start-up cost for software moving to the "free" domain. > 4) Currently the barrier to entry for immigrants is high. Driver > support, that shall we say "does not lead the field". Installation and > configuration can be confusing to those that have not studied Solaris. > I think these are generally acknowledged as goals in the community, > but this is where we have a distro that focuses on this issue > specifically. Ditto #3 - a problem that doesn't really motivate OSH (as the disclaimer states). > 5) Although AOL has proved that mass mailings of optical media can be > made into a scalable distribution model, this only worked because AOL > self updated upon install. OpenSolaris needs a quicker and simpler > distribution method. (Which allows free mirroring of ISOs, binary and > source packages, without lengthy legal reviews. This ties into the > desire to have a completely unencumbered base distro set) Ditto #3. > 6) Sun (Ian/Indiana/Others) wants a second Solaris distro that will be > the Fedora to Sun's RHEL (Solaris). They wish to do this and still > leave a clear migration path from one distro to another. (Unlike > Fedora). ;) OK, you have allies. 8^) > 7) Currently there isn't a method for non-Sun distros to offer > optional non open source bits. We would want to establish a standard > and precedent for doing so, that all distros could leverage. (I'm > thinking mostly HW support issues). Huh? What prevents a distro from doing this? Please elaborate. > 8) Currently, by continuing to use closed source bits as the standard, > there is minimal incentive to close (open?) the loop. Not sure what you are saying. If its that the "closed" bits shouldn't exist, please work on that problem. I think we would all like nothing more. This is an important requirement to having a complete, truly open distribution, but not a reason to have OSH. > 9) Current HW requirements are a bit on the high end. I can't run this > on an old 386, or for that matter on an old P/PII I have lying around. And the thought is that Sun wouldn't include such projects in it's Solaris distribution? I'm not sure, you might be right. We've been moderately aggressive about removing such support (more on the SPARC side actually) motivated mostly by a desire to minimize the test matrix. The secondary reason was code bloat. A harder issue is "minimum storage". Just how much memory and how big a disk does that old 386 have attached to it? :-) I guess its a valid reason for OSH - so that the community can determine the supported hardware list, but I'd (perhaps wrongly) tend to think that the need is actually more in unsupported ISA/PCI cards than processors. Seems like these could plug into any Solaris. (Seems to motivate the blastwave-like soultions we've discussed elsewhere more than OSH, but it does motivate OSH somewhat (particularly if that card is a NIC)). Discussion have been had elsewhere about including unsupported (by Sun) drivers on the distribution CD. Don't know where this has gone. Solaris used to run on 486. I'm sure we can find those sources and donate them to the community. SunOS 4.x used to run on 386 (A Sun product called roadrunner). However, having run a leaner Solaris (2.3) on a 486, I'm not sure this is really useful. I'm not that patient. ------------ Summary: This seems like a laundry list of ills with the current situation. I believe only a few of these ills motivate an OSH, particularly if you consider how long it will take a polished OSH to come into existance. Maybe I've verged too far accross the "let's not debate the need" line, but this entire posting seemed to assert the needs and most of them seemed orthoginal to an OSH. - jek3 From wozyjobs at hotmail.com Sat Jun 2 13:51:27 2007 From: wozyjobs at hotmail.com (Neo) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 15:51:27 -0500 Subject: [ug-discuss] IRC Message-ID: Hi My name is Alfredo Gonzalez from Mexico i want to know how can register the new irc://irc.freenode.net/opensolaris-mx in the opensolarissiteThanks _________________________________________________________________ Llamadas gratis de PC a PC http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=es-mx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dgalan at aulaunix.org Sat Jun 2 13:59:49 2007 From: dgalan at aulaunix.org (David Galan Ortiz) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 22:59:49 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Photos OpenSolarisDAy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: in this Link they are the photos of the OpenSolarisDay in Madrid (Spain): http://www.alobbs.com/album/opensolarisday07 En este link est?n las fotos del OpenSolarisDay es Madrid (Espa?a): http://www.alobbs.com/album/opensolarisday07 thanks David From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Sat Jun 2 16:11:47 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 08:11:47 +0900 Subject: [ug-discuss] IRC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4661F933.6020309@sun.com> Neo wrote: > Hi > > My name is Alfredo Gonzalez from Mexico i want to know how can register the > new irc://irc.freenode.net/opensolaris-mx in the opensolaris > site Here you go: http://opensolaris.org/os/chat/ Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Sat Jun 2 16:13:51 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 08:13:51 +0900 Subject: [ug-discuss] Photos OpenSolarisDAy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4661F9AF.6020301@sun.com> Excellent! David Galan Ortiz wrote: > in this Link they are the photos of the OpenSolarisDay in Madrid > (Spain): > > http://www.alobbs.com/album/opensolarisday07 > > En este link est?n las fotos del OpenSolarisDay es Madrid (Espa?a): > > http://www.alobbs.com/album/opensolarisday07 > > thanks > > David From walter.gnadenberger at chello.at Sun Jun 3 06:52:01 2007 From: walter.gnadenberger at chello.at (Gnadenberger) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 06:52:01 PDT Subject: [ug-discuss] Installation hang (Build 65) Message-ID: <6751575.1180878751965.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Hallo! I try to install Solaris Express Build 65 on my laptop (TravelMat 636LCi). The installation hangs. Following I tried: 1. Turn of acpi 1.1 -B acpi-user-options=2 -> not working 1.2 -B acpi-user-options=8 -> not working 2. Set SLot 4/5 IRQ to IRQ10 -> not working 2. Turn of usb -> not working Starting the kernel with -kv the last output is /pci at 0,0/pci12a3,ab01 at c/pcs at 0 (pcs0) online Starting the kernel with -kd the last output is kobj_open: von_open of /platform/i86pc/kernle/mdb/intpexec failor Errno=2 I am able to install Solaris 10u3 11/06 on the laptop but not on of the builds. Have you some hints for me!!! lg Walter This message posted from opensolaris.org From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Sun Jun 3 14:49:57 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 06:49:57 +0900 Subject: [ug-discuss] Blogs Message-ID: <46633785.5060400@sun.com> FYI: If you are blogging about OpenSolaris and would like your blog added to our collection http://opensolaris.org/os/blogs send mail to add-my-blog AT sun DOT com with the following information: (1) your full name (2) your OpenSolaris registration username (3) your blog's address (4) your blog's RSS/Atom feed Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From Evgeni.Ilyin at sun.com Mon Jun 4 09:28:46 2007 From: Evgeni.Ilyin at sun.com (Evgeni Ilyin) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:28:46 PDT Subject: [ug-discuss] OpenSolaris - materials that don't need to be translated Message-ID: <21748058.1180974556655.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Hello, I summon to the common wisdom, knowledge and the sense of fun. While running OpenSolaris and Sun Studio community at http://community.livejournal.com/ru_opensolaris/ we've realized that posts with media materials that don't need to be translated to understand appreciated as posts written on native language. You guys are more experienced with OpenSolaris communities and have bugger knowledge luggage and probably have something like Solaris related video clips, flash and pictures that impressed you or make you smile and can help us with links that we can post for those who doesn't speak english very well. I also think that this would be interesting for all user groups and we can share it. Thanks in advance. Gene. http://blogs.sun.com/esi This message posted from opensolaris.org From walter.gnadenberger at chello.at Mon Jun 4 13:43:31 2007 From: walter.gnadenberger at chello.at (Gnadenberger) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 13:43:31 PDT Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Installation hang (Build 65) In-Reply-To: <6751575.1180878751965.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Message-ID: <12501405.1180989841205.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> I found the solution! I have to turn of pcic then I am able to boot the installation kernel. This message posted from opensolaris.org From rolnif at mac.com Mon Jun 4 06:53:11 2007 From: rolnif at mac.com (John Martinez) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 06:53:11 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [sysadmin-discuss] Why we should have an OpenSolaris Hosted binary set. [OSH-thread] In-Reply-To: <5b5090780706010811g7bce1cd5w15080f745593c957@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b5090780706010811g7bce1cd5w15080f745593c957@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7C951603-F6E3-41B5-BF82-9DCBCF7C10A3@mac.com> On Jun 1, 2007, at 8:11 AM, Brian Gupta wrote: > ... > Various drivers behind an effort to produce OSH. > > 1) There is a desire for a minimal/core OpenSolaris distro, that other > distro packagers can leverage to create their own distros. Building a > distro from this core *may*, in the future, allow other distros to > also be hosted at OpenSolaris.org. This OS core must, for the sake of > practicality, allow layers to be added on top to get to Nevada.... /me raised hand Doesn't this sound an awful lot like what Sun is going to be working on? -john From brian.gupta at gmail.com Mon Jun 4 13:04:47 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 16:04:47 -0400 Subject: [ug-discuss] Fwd: June Google NY Speaker Series Event - Vint Cerf, Google Chief Internet Evangelist In-Reply-To: <4b2391100706012059v26f30892id7e1e325850f1416@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b2391100706012059v26f30892id7e1e325850f1416@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b5090780706041304o3dc32c3fh57252298d7f76b40@mail.gmail.com> I figured this might be interesting to other New Yorkers. (I am going, if you want to try and meet up) brian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: nyspeakerseries at google.com Date: Jun 1, 2007 11:59 PM Subject: June Google NY Speaker Series Event - Vint Cerf, Google Chief Internet Evangelist To: Thank you for your previous interest in the 2007 Google NY Speaker Series. We kicked this event off earlier this year with the goal of creating a collegial atmosphere where members of the technical community can learn from and get to know one another. We are pleased you've chosen to be a part of this series, and hope you have found it compelling and engaging. For our June event Vint Cerf, Google Chief Internet Evangelist, will talk about "Tracking the Internet into the 21st Century". Please join us next Thursday, June 7, at 6:30 PM for a beer and wine reception, followed by an enlightening presentation from Vint. For more information and to register, go to: http://services.google.com/events/nyspeaker_series07 Registration is limited so get your name in now! In order to support the free and open exchange of information at our speaker series events we ask that attendees refrain from recording or reporting on these meetings, their content or Google. Please contact our communications team at press at google.com if you have any questions regarding this policy. General questions - email nyspeakerseries at google.com Best regards, Your Friends at Google NY _______________________________________________ Nyss mailing list Nyss at google.com https://mailman.corp.google.com/mailman/listinfo/nyss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian.gupta at gmail.com Mon Jun 4 13:09:13 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 16:09:13 -0400 Subject: [ug-discuss] Fwd: June Google NY Speaker Series Event - Vint Cerf, Google Chief Internet Evangelist In-Reply-To: <5b5090780706041304o3dc32c3fh57252298d7f76b40@mail.gmail.com> References: <4b2391100706012059v26f30892id7e1e325850f1416@mail.gmail.com> <5b5090780706041304o3dc32c3fh57252298d7f76b40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b5090780706041309y1a7e3ce7mcf5e190835c545a2@mail.gmail.com> I figured this might be interesting to other New Yorkers. (I am going, if you want to try and meet up) brian p.s. - Sorry for the retransmission, I had a typo in one of the addresses. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: nyspeakerseries at google.com Date: Jun 1, 2007 11:59 PM Subject: June Google NY Speaker Series Event - Vint Cerf, Google Chief Internet Evangelist To: Thank you for your previous interest in the 2007 Google NY Speaker Series. We kicked this event off earlier this year with the goal of creating a collegial atmosphere where members of the technical community can learn from and get to know one another. We are pleased you've chosen to be a part of this series, and hope you have found it compelling and engaging. For our June event Vint Cerf, Google Chief Internet Evangelist, will talk about "Tracking the Internet into the 21st Century". Please join us next Thursday, June 7, at 6:30 PM for a beer and wine reception, followed by an enlightening presentation from Vint. For more information and to register, go to: http://services.google.com/events/nyspeaker_series07 Registration is limited so get your name in now! In order to support the free and open exchange of information at our speaker series events we ask that attendees refrain from recording or reporting on these meetings, their content or Google. Please contact our communications team at press at google.com if you have any questions regarding this policy. General questions - email nyspeakerseries at google.com Best regards, Your Friends at Google NY _______________________________________________ Nyss mailing list Nyss at google.com https://mailman.corp.google.com/mailman/listinfo/nyss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Tue Jun 5 18:51:37 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:51:37 +0900 Subject: [ug-discuss] Sponsor Project Indiana Message-ID: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and User Group communities/ hey ... I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html Agree? Disagree? Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris -- From brian.gupta at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 19:24:29 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (brian.gupta at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 22:24:29 -0400 Subject: [ug-discuss] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <5b5090780706051924y543d6b93i3548d306fa6550c3@mail.gmail.com> Agree From Joe.G at Sun.COM Tue Jun 5 20:02:27 2007 From: Joe.G at Sun.COM (Joe G (Joseph George)) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:32:27 +0530 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <6E530B71-2897-4364-89D4-23EBF39ECDFE@Sun.COM> Agree. ~Joe On 06-Jun-07, at 7:21 AM, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing > and User Group communities/ > > > hey ... > > I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User > Group Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail > list can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved > in this project since we stand to benefit from its potential > success. I've suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/ > 000819.html > > Agree? Disagree? > > Jim > -- > Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris > -- > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org -------------------------------- Joe G (Joseph George) Joe.G at Sun.COM http://www.blogs.sun.com/josephgeorge http://www.belenix.org From Terri.Molini at Sun.COM Tue Jun 5 20:21:47 2007 From: Terri.Molini at Sun.COM (Terri Molini) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:21:47 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4666284B.7080903@sun.com> Agree. -Terri Molini Jim Grisanzio wrote: > /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and > User Group communities/ > > > hey ... > > I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group > Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list > can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this > project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've > suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html > > Agree? Disagree? > > Jim -- Terri Molini Sun Microsystems, Inc. Global Communications 408/404-4976 office/fax; x6-9968 408/406-9021 mobile IM: tmolini -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stevel at sun.com Tue Jun 5 21:19:34 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 21:19:34 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> I'm not a core contributor to either community, so my vote is meaningless - but as long as the distribution doesn't call itself "OpenSolaris" as has been tossed around, I agree in principle. The goals and objectives of the project are worthy and good (for whatever my opinion is worth), I'm just wary of something that will attempt to overload and redefine what "OpenSolaris" is. cheers, steve On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 10:51:37AM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and > User Group communities/ > > > hey ... > > I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group > Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list > can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this > project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've > suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html > > Agree? Disagree? > > Jim > -- > Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris > -- > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Tue Jun 5 21:54:54 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 23:54:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and User > Group communities/ > > > hey ... > > I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group > Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list can be > set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this project since > we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've suggested this to Glynn > on the OGB list: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html > > Agree? Disagree? Agree. I do want to note here that I'm definitely in the camp with those concerned about the project wanting to use the designation OpenSolaris Distro. (Should that designation even be claimable by a project? If yes, does the Indiana project get to claim it?) But working out tricky issues like that is one of the big reasons the Indiana project urgently needs its own website space and mailing list. So an enthusiastic thumbs up from me. Eric From venkytv at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 22:04:45 2007 From: venkytv at gmail.com (Venky) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:34:45 +0530 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20070606050445.GI4377@spikesource.com> Just in case we haven't had enough votes already - I agree too. Venky. On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 11:54:54PM -0500, Eric Boutilier wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >/sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and > >User Group communities/ > > > > > >hey ... > > > >I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group > >Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > > >http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > > >The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list can > >be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this project > >since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've suggested this > >to Glynn on the OGB list: > > > >http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html > > > >Agree? Disagree? > > Agree. > > I do want to note here that I'm definitely in the camp with those concerned > about the project wanting to use the designation OpenSolaris Distro. > (Should that designation even be claimable by a project? If yes, does the > Indiana project get to claim it?) But working out tricky issues like that > is one of the big reasons the Indiana project urgently needs its own > website space and mailing list. So an enthusiastic thumbs up from me. > > Eric > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 01:11:57 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:11:57 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> I agree on sponsoring. Concerning nomenclature: if I understand concerns about using the name "OpenSolaris" as part / all of the name of a disto, they are 2-fold: i. Deprecates (unfairly) other OpenSolaris distros, and the excellent work which has gone into creating them ii. Redefines what OpenSolaris is, from a code base and community to code base, community and a bootable OS, to the point where the name "OpenSolaris" is loaded with too much meaning. From my point of view, if we are talking about attracting users, the second is not a concern. While we may have consistently said that OpenSolaris is not a bootable operating system, but a code base and a community, that does not mean that this could not or should not change. Further, the expectation remains that there be a concise answer to the question, "how do I boot OpenSolaris?". For that reason I am more concerned about the status of other distros. Patrick Stephen Lau wrote: > I'm not a core contributor to either community, so my vote is > meaningless - but as long as the distribution doesn't call itself > "OpenSolaris" as has been tossed around, I agree in principle. > > The goals and objectives of the project are worthy and good (for > whatever my opinion is worth), I'm just wary of something that will > attempt to overload and redefine what "OpenSolaris" is. > > cheers, > steve > > On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 10:51:37AM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: >> /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and >> User Group communities/ >> >> >> hey ... >> >> I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group >> Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: >> >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html >> >> The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list >> can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this >> project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've >> suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: >> >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html >> >> Agree? Disagree? >> >> Jim >> -- >> Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > From dgalan at aulaunix.org Wed Jun 6 01:59:19 2007 From: dgalan at aulaunix.org (David Galan Ortiz) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:59:19 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4c0d8ae2a07ba67678f20f4ace506294@mail.aulaunix.org> Helo Jim, agree David SPOSUG On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:51:37 +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and > User Group communities/ > > > hey ... > > I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group > Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list > can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this > project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've > suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html > > Agree? Disagree? > > Jim > -- > Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris > -- > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org -- *********************** David Gal?n Ortiz dgalan at aulaunix.org www.aulaunix.org blogs.aulaunix.org *********************** From webmink at sun.com Wed Jun 6 03:55:58 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:55:58 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. That is not here. Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it something else. S. On Jun 6, 2007, at 05:19, Stephen Lau wrote: > I'm not a core contributor to either community, so my vote is > meaningless - but as long as the distribution doesn't call itself > "OpenSolaris" as has been tossed around, I agree in principle. > > The goals and objectives of the project are worthy and good (for > whatever my opinion is worth), I'm just wary of something that will > attempt to overload and redefine what "OpenSolaris" is. > > cheers, > steve > > On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 10:51:37AM +0900, Jim Grisanzio wrote: >> /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing >> and >> User Group communities/ >> >> >> hey ... >> >> I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User >> Group >> Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: >> >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/ >> 000555.html >> >> The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail >> list >> can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this >> project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've >> suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: >> >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/ >> 000819.html >> >> Agree? Disagree? >> >> Jim >> -- >> Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > > -- > stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net > opensolaris // solaris kernel development > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From Casper.Dik at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 04:14:40 2007 From: Casper.Dik at Sun.COM (Casper.Dik at Sun.COM) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:14:40 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> >I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. > >This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >That is not here. > >Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed >within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris >distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it >something else. You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution mechanisms? Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions went elsewhere? Casper From laurent at elanor.org Wed Jun 6 04:18:01 2007 From: laurent at elanor.org (Laurent Blume) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:18:01 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <466697E9.5020900@elanor.org> Simon Phipps a ?crit : > I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. > > This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It > should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. > That is not here. Agreed with that. > Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed > within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris > distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it something > else. What is the OpenSolaris community in that case? Does that mean that the current distros are being done by people somehow outside it? Honestly, I've noted that there is already quie a confusion about what ?OpenSolaris? is. Many people I know, who are not (yet) Sun users, do believe it's an actual OS similar to Solaris, but, well, ?Open?, more Linux-like, maybe. Some also seem to think that SX <=> OpenSolaris. Or that Nexenta <=> OpenSolaris. I've seen threads on the OS.o lists about ?running things on OpenSolaris? (which meant ?running things on all distros based on OpenSolaris?). Anyway, unless a very, very strong communication effort is made to clarify that, there's no way us contributors can influence what the rest of the world will call us. Remember that today, Linux <=> Red Hat for many people. And this is not something that I would like to happen in our community, one distro becoming the beacon of all attention from the outside. Laurent -- / Leader de Projet & Communaut? | I'm working, but not speaking for \ I18N/L10N http://opensolaris.org | Bull Services http://www.bull.com / FOSUG http://guses.org | From Alexey.Ushakov at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 04:31:07 2007 From: Alexey.Ushakov at Sun.COM (Alexey Ushakov) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:31:07 +0400 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: <46669AFB.9070602@sun.com> Hello, I'm novice in ug-discuss and opensolaris-mktg, so would like to ask if someone could clarify what does sponsorship of the opensource project mean. Actually, I'm working in J2SE and we are also have a bunch of requests for sponsorship but so far we didn't get clear explanation of the meaning of this term. So, probably because OpenSolaris started long time ago there is some terminology that we should know when dealing with the community. Best Regards, Alexey Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: >> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >> >> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >> That is not here. >> >> Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed >> within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris >> distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it >> something else. >> > > You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions > are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this > by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution > mechanisms? > > Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download > and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions > went elsewhere? > > Casper > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org > From webmink at sun.com Wed Jun 6 04:47:55 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:47:55 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: <6A655F9B-DDF8-4572-8B7D-F97715730B1F@sun.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:14, Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: > You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions > are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this > by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution > mechanisms? Yes, and most importantly their own discussion mechanisms (if any). The actual tasks of defining and constructing the distributions (a combination of editorial decision and engineering activity) are conducted elsewhere than opensolaris.org by people who are indeed members of the OpenSolaris community. The main novelty of the various proposals for an OpenSolaris distribution including the Indiana proposal is to have at least one distribution constructed collaboratively inside the community. I believe the key factor here is transparent decision-making. > Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download > and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions > went elsewhere? I believe that the resources necessary for building a distribution are available on opensolaris.org, although the resources needed to sustain it (mainly a repository for hosting the package system I think) are not. It's perfectly possible some tuning and refactoring will be necessary as whatever system we all create gains momentum. S. From Tim.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 05:30:21 2007 From: Tim.Foster at Sun.COM (Tim Foster) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:30:21 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> Hi all, On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 11:55 +0100, Simon Phipps wrote: > This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It > should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. > That is not here. So this is a tough one. Imho - there are multiple communities on opensolaris.org that could make a claim to host Indiana, but it's hard to see any one engineering community where it would live. http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/#portal So given that no engineering-focused community fits the bill, I think that Marketing/User-groups/Advocacy is probably the *best* place to host the project - one of Indiana's goals is to get more people using OpenSolaris, and that sure as heck sounds like Advocacy to me! Otherwise, if folks disagree with that sentiment, could we please quickly get a "Distributions Community" formed and get this show on the road ? cheers, tim -- Tim Foster, Sun Microsystems Inc, Solaris Engineering Ops http://blogs.sun.com/timf From webmink at sun.com Wed Jun 6 05:43:18 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:43:18 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> Message-ID: <53181A46-4F60-461F-8DFD-9F770D0911B3@sun.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 13:30, Tim Foster wrote: > Otherwise, if folks disagree with that sentiment, could we please > quickly get a "Distributions Community" formed and get this show on > the > road ? Would be a fine thing, unless the Advocacy community is going to be designated the time-limited "holding area" for all new ideas. S. From venky.tv at sun.com Wed Jun 6 05:46:10 2007 From: venky.tv at sun.com (Venky) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:16:10 +0530 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <6A655F9B-DDF8-4572-8B7D-F97715730B1F@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <6A655F9B-DDF8-4572-8B7D-F97715730B1F@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070606124610.GK4377@spikesource.com> > >You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions > >are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this > >by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution > >mechanisms? > > Yes, and most importantly their own discussion mechanisms (if any). > The actual tasks of defining and constructing the distributions (a > combination of editorial decision and engineering activity) are > conducted elsewhere than opensolaris.org by people who are indeed > members of the OpenSolaris community. > > The main novelty of the various proposals for an OpenSolaris > distribution including the Indiana proposal is to have at least one > distribution constructed collaboratively inside the community. I > believe the key factor here is transparent decision-making. All or most of the current distributions have transparent decision-making. They just don't happen to have dedicated lists on opensolaris.org. Most of the decisions for BeleniX happen on the ug-bosug at opensolaris.org list, for instance. If all it takes to become an official OpenSolaris distribution is to have a dedicated mailing list, maybe the BeleniX team should ask one. Come to think of it, it might be a good idea anyway to have distro-specific mailing lists on opensolaris.org. > >Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download > >and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions > >went elsewhere? > > I believe that the resources necessary for building a distribution > are available on opensolaris.org, although the resources needed to > sustain it (mainly a repository for hosting the package system I > think) are not. It's perfectly possible some tuning and refactoring > will be necessary as whatever system we all create gains momentum. Most of the distributions (SchilliX, BeleniX and probably even Nexenta) started before the OpenSolaris website was capable of supporting them. That shouldn't make them any less worthy of being called OpenSolaris distributions. Venky. From Tim.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 06:03:28 2007 From: Tim.Foster at Sun.COM (Tim Foster) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 14:03:28 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <53181A46-4F60-461F-8DFD-9F770D0911B3@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> <53181A46-4F60-461F-8DFD-9F770D0911B3@sun.com> Message-ID: <1181135008.13542.45.camel@haiiro> On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 13:43 +0100, Simon Phipps wrote: > On Jun 6, 2007, at 13:30, Tim Foster wrote: > > Otherwise, if folks disagree with that sentiment, could we please > > quickly get a "Distributions Community" formed and get this show on > > the road ? > > Would be a fine thing, unless the Advocacy community is going to be > designated the time-limited "holding area" for all new ideas. Works for me. - actually digging into the constitution (I know, sorry) I see mention of an "At-large Community" in section 7.3[1] - does that have the ability to create a project space on opensolaris.org ? Regardless, giving the guys somewhere, anywhere, to go work on Indiana in public view, would be a good thing, whoever ends up sponsoring them eventually (cf. my previous "Get a room!" comment). cheers, tim [1] http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/ogb/governance/#ARTICLE_VII.__Community_Groups -- Tim Foster, Sun Microsystems Inc, Solaris Engineering Ops http://blogs.sun.com/timf From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 07:01:25 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:01:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: > >> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >> >> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >> That is not here. >> >> Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed >> within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris >> distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it >> something else. > > You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions > are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this > by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution > mechanisms? > > Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download > and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions > went elsewhere? Casper's right. Nexenta, BeleniX and other existing distros are, by all rights and intentions, projects of and by the OpenSolaris community. The Nexenta project leadership sees it that way too: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2007-March/026547.html Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 07:08:42 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:08:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Tim Foster wrote: > > ... > Otherwise, if folks disagree with that sentiment, could we please > quickly get a "Distributions Community" formed and get this show on the > road ? +1000 From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 07:08:53 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:08:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <20070606124610.GK4377@spikesource.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <6A655F9B-DDF8-4572-8B7D-F97715730B1F@sun.com> <20070606124610.GK4377@spikesource.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Venky wrote: >>> You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions >>> are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this >>> by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution >>> mechanisms? >> >> Yes, and most importantly their own discussion mechanisms (if any). >> The actual tasks of defining and constructing the distributions (a >> combination of editorial decision and engineering activity) are >> conducted elsewhere than opensolaris.org by people who are indeed >> members of the OpenSolaris community. >> >> The main novelty of the various proposals for an OpenSolaris >> distribution including the Indiana proposal is to have at least one >> distribution constructed collaboratively inside the community. I >> believe the key factor here is transparent decision-making. > > All or most of the current distributions have transparent > decision-making. They just don't happen to have dedicated lists > on opensolaris.org. Most of the decisions for BeleniX happen on > the ug-bosug at opensolaris.org list, for instance. If all it takes > to become an official OpenSolaris distribution is to have a > dedicated mailing list, maybe the BeleniX team should ask one. > > Come to think of it, it might be a good idea anyway to have > distro-specific mailing lists on opensolaris.org. > >>> Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download >>> and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions >>> went elsewhere? >> >> I believe that the resources necessary for building a distribution >> are available on opensolaris.org, although the resources needed to >> sustain it (mainly a repository for hosting the package system I >> think) are not. It's perfectly possible some tuning and refactoring >> will be necessary as whatever system we all create gains momentum. > > Most of the distributions (SchilliX, BeleniX and probably even > Nexenta) started before the OpenSolaris website was capable of > supporting them. That shouldn't make them any less worthy of > being called OpenSolaris distributions. +1000 (on all counts). Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 07:10:54 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:10:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> Message-ID: NB: Installation and Packaging Community also said they'd be happy to sponsor Indiana: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=32261&tstart=0 --Eric On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Tim Foster wrote: > Hi all, > > On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 11:55 +0100, Simon Phipps wrote: >> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >> That is not here. > > So this is a tough one. Imho - there are multiple communities on > opensolaris.org that could make a claim to host Indiana, but it's hard > to see any one engineering community where it would live. > http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/#portal > > > So given that no engineering-focused community fits the bill, I think > that Marketing/User-groups/Advocacy is probably the *best* place to host > the project - one of Indiana's goals is to get more people using > OpenSolaris, and that sure as heck sounds like Advocacy to me! > > Otherwise, if folks disagree with that sentiment, could we please > quickly get a "Distributions Community" formed and get this show on the > road ? > > cheers, > tim > > -- > Tim Foster, Sun Microsystems Inc, Solaris Engineering Ops > http://blogs.sun.com/timf > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > > From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Wed Jun 6 07:20:46 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 07:20:46 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> Patrick Finch wrote: > I agree on sponsoring. > > Concerning nomenclature: if I understand concerns about using the name > "OpenSolaris" as part / all of the name of a disto, they are 2-fold: > > i. Deprecates (unfairly) other OpenSolaris distros, and the excellent > work which has gone into creating them > > ii. Redefines what OpenSolaris is, from a code base and community to > code base, community and a bootable OS, to the point where the name > "OpenSolaris" is loaded with too much meaning. iii. Makes it clear that this distro is specially blessed by Sun, and not a pure community-driven project, since only Sun has the ability to grant use of the OpenSolaris trademark this way. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 07:39:08 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:39:08 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by Sun" mutually exclusive? Patrick Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Patrick Finch wrote: >> I agree on sponsoring. >> >> Concerning nomenclature: if I understand concerns about using the name >> "OpenSolaris" as part / all of the name of a disto, they are 2-fold: >> >> i. Deprecates (unfairly) other OpenSolaris distros, and the excellent >> work which has gone into creating them >> >> ii. Redefines what OpenSolaris is, from a code base and community to >> code base, community and a bootable OS, to the point where the name >> "OpenSolaris" is loaded with too much meaning. > > iii. Makes it clear that this distro is specially blessed by Sun, and > not a pure community-driven project, since only Sun has the ability to > grant use of the OpenSolaris trademark this way. > From laurent at elanor.org Wed Jun 6 07:58:09 2007 From: laurent at elanor.org (Laurent Blume) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:58:09 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666CB81.9040608@elanor.org> Patrick Finch a ?crit : > Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by > Sun" mutually exclusive? Some rewriting would be needed there: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/ ?We are independent. Decisions within the project are made independently from those concerning Sun's business. Sun's management controls the business aspects of the Solaris product, but will not exert undue influence within the OpenSolaris community.? ?The main difference between the OpenSolaris project and the Solaris Operating System is that the OpenSolaris project does not provide an end-user product or complete distribution.? I'm not against translating it again. But since this is quite the definition of what OpenSolaris *is*, some thinking is needed there before starting such a distro. Laurent -- / Leader de Projet & Communaut? | I'm working, but not speaking for \ I18N/L10N http://opensolaris.org | Bull Services http://www.bull.com / FOSUG http://guses.org | From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:12:47 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:12:47 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666CEEF.2000208@sun.com> Not completely, but they are somewhat in the sense that no other "pure community driven project" (e.g.: Belenix, Nexenta, Schillix, Martux, etc.) can call themselves "OpenSolaris" the same way Indiana can. So in that respect, Indiana would have been 'specially blessed' (not necessarily 'especially blessed') cheers, steve Patrick Finch wrote: > Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by > Sun" mutually exclusive? > > Patrick > > > Alan Coopersmith wrote: >> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> I agree on sponsoring. >>> >>> Concerning nomenclature: if I understand concerns about using the >>> name "OpenSolaris" as part / all of the name of a disto, they are >>> 2-fold: >>> >>> i. Deprecates (unfairly) other OpenSolaris distros, and the excellent >>> work which has gone into creating them >>> >>> ii. Redefines what OpenSolaris is, from a code base and community to >>> code base, community and a bootable OS, to the point where the name >>> "OpenSolaris" is loaded with too much meaning. >> >> iii. Makes it clear that this distro is specially blessed by Sun, and >> not a pure community-driven project, since only Sun has the ability to >> grant use of the OpenSolaris trademark this way. >> -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:14:45 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:14:45 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. > > This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It > should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. > That is not here. But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? > Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed > within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris > distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it something > else. But there isn't exactly one distribution... we have 5 that I count (not including Indiana). Indiana will only be called "the OpenSolaris distribution" if people insist on it. That's what I'm opposed to. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 08:18:56 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:18:56 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Patrick Finch wrote: > Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by Sun" > mutually exclusive? My take is that Alan's simply saying that in _this_ case (which is to say, the direction the Indiana project appears to be headed) they are both true[1]. So no, definitely not, they don't have to be mututally exclusive. Eric 1. And FWIW, I agree: http://blogs.sun.com/eric_boutilier/entry/dear_ian#comments From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:25:17 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:25:17 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <6A655F9B-DDF8-4572-8B7D-F97715730B1F@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <200706061114.l56BEerW004283@sr1-eaft06-01.holland.sun.com> <6A655F9B-DDF8-4572-8B7D-F97715730B1F@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666D1DD.70801@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 12:14, Casper.Dik at Sun.COM wrote: > >> You are saying that the other OpenSolaris based distributions >> are created outside the OpenSolaris community? Is this >> by virtue of them having their own websites and distribution >> mechanisms? > > Yes, and most importantly their own discussion mechanisms (if any). The > actual tasks of defining and constructing the distributions (a > combination of editorial decision and engineering activity) are > conducted elsewhere than opensolaris.org by people who are indeed > members of the OpenSolaris community. > > The main novelty of the various proposals for an OpenSolaris > distribution including the Indiana proposal is to have at least one > distribution constructed collaboratively inside the community. I believe > the key factor here is transparent decision-making. I don't agree that just because they coordinate their work on other sites they aren't considered part of the community. Talks on all the various distributions were given at the OpenSolaris Developers Conference last year. All the various distribution contributors and creators participate via opensolaris.org mailing lists. Speaking as one of the tonic team members, we simply didn't (don't?) have the infrastructure needs distributions require. We didn't have SCM until recently. We still don't have project bug tracking. We don't provide a way for projects/communities to setup their own mailing lists without bugging Eric. If I were any of the other distributions, I would have done the same thing. Given the state of the current infrastructure, I don't feel Indiana would fare any better. How will Indiana do distribution wide bug tracking? >> Was the OpenSolaris website even equiped to handle such a download >> and was that perhaps the reason that those other distributions >> went elsewhere? > > I believe that the resources necessary for building a distribution are > available on opensolaris.org, although the resources needed to sustain > it (mainly a repository for hosting the package system I think) are not. > It's perfectly possible some tuning and refactoring will be necessary as > whatever system we all create gains momentum. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:26:33 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:26:33 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <53181A46-4F60-461F-8DFD-9F770D0911B3@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <1181133021.13542.29.camel@haiiro> <53181A46-4F60-461F-8DFD-9F770D0911B3@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666D229.3080707@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 13:30, Tim Foster wrote: > >> Otherwise, if folks disagree with that sentiment, could we please >> quickly get a "Distributions Community" formed and get this show on the >> road ? > > Would be a fine thing, unless the Advocacy community is going to be > designated the time-limited "holding area" for all new ideas. All someone needs to do is propose the Distributions Community.... as of yet, none has been officially proposed to the OGB. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From webmink at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:27:11 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:27:11 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> Message-ID: <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: >> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. >> It should be in a place where co-development engineers will >> participate. That is not here. > > But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of > non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd suggest though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate venue. > >> Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed >> within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the >> OpenSolaris distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to >> name it something else. > > But there isn't exactly one distribution... we have 5 that I count > (not including Indiana). Indiana will only be called "the > OpenSolaris distribution" if people insist on it. That's what I'm > opposed to. Right now there exactly zero distributions developed withing the community - that's not my words, that (as Laurent points out elsewhere) is how we describe ourselves on http://www.opensolaris.org/ os/about/ : > The main difference between the OpenSolaris project and the Solaris > Operating System is that the OpenSolaris project does not provide > an end-user product or complete distribution. What multiple people have suggested is it's time to change that as it is confusing for newcomers. I completely support that change. S. From alan.coopersmith at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:29:33 2007 From: alan.coopersmith at sun.com (Alan Coopersmith) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:29:33 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> Patrick Finch wrote: > Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by > Sun" mutually exclusive? They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have been denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive is pushing for this project. Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that people think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:38:40 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:38:40 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: > >> Simon Phipps wrote: >>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >>> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >>> That is not here. >> >> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? > > In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd suggest > though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate venue. Agreed. Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community doesn't exist - I think it's reasonable for Mktg/Ug/Advocacy to sponsor it instead. But again, that should be up to the core contributors of said community. >>> Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed >>> within the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris >>> distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it >>> something else. >> >> But there isn't exactly one distribution... we have 5 that I count >> (not including Indiana). Indiana will only be called "the OpenSolaris >> distribution" if people insist on it. That's what I'm opposed to. > > Right now there exactly zero distributions developed withing the > community - that's not my words, that (as Laurent points out elsewhere) > is how we describe ourselves on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/ : >> The main difference between the OpenSolaris project and the Solaris >> Operating System is that the OpenSolaris project does not provide an >> end-user product or complete distribution. > > What multiple people have suggested is it's time to change that as it is > confusing for newcomers. I completely support that change. Incorrect. You are misreading "OpenSolaris project" as "OpenSolaris community". That text states that "the OpenSolaris project" doesn't provide a distribution, not the OpenSolaris community. I agree the text is confusing; but the point it's trying to make is what our initial message of OpenSolaris has always stated: OpenSolaris is a set of source code from which others base distributions. This has always been 100% true and correct. Others within the community (including Sun) have derived binary distributions based on OpenSolaris source code. So I disagree that there are exactly zero distributions developed within the community. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 08:43:26 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:43:26 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666D61E.5060501@sun.com> Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Patrick Finch wrote: >> Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by >> Sun" mutually exclusive? > > They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had > asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have been > denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive is > pushing for this project. > > Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that > people > think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". > Understood - you're right that there is an obvious asymmetry in the relationship. My point was just that naming a distro "OpenSolaris" wouldn't prevent it from being driven purely within the community. From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 08:44:53 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:44:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: > >> Simon Phipps wrote: >>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It should >>> be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. That is not >>> here. >> >> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? > > In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd suggest > though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate venue. > >> >>> Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed within >>> the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris >>> distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it something >>> else. >> >> But there isn't exactly one distribution... we have 5 that I count (not >> including Indiana). Indiana will only be called "the OpenSolaris >> distribution" if people insist on it. That's what I'm opposed to. > > Right now there exactly zero distributions developed withing the community - As I said, that's wrong. Nexenta, BeleniX and other existing distros are, by all rights and intentions, projects of and by the OpenSolaris community. The Nexenta project leadership sees it that way too: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2007-March/026 547.html Eric > that's not my words, that (as Laurent points out elsewhere) is how we > describe ourselves on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/ : >> The main difference between the OpenSolaris project and the Solaris >> Operating System is that the OpenSolaris project does not provide an >> end-user product or complete distribution. > > What multiple people have suggested is it's time to change that as it is > confusing for newcomers. I completely support that change. > > S. > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 08:50:27 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:50:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: >> >> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >> >>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >>>> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >>>> That is not here. >>> >>> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >>> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? >> >> In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd suggest >> though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate venue. > > Agreed. Me too. > Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community > doesn't exist I'd be very willing to help start one. Here are the key requirements per the main Community page: ... Proposals need to list at least 3 current Core Contributors who are nominating the community, at least 3 participants who will become the initial Core Contributors of the new community, and one person who will serve as the community's Facilitator... I'm a Core Contributor, and we probably have several others on this discussion who are as well... Eric > - I think it's reasonable for Mktg/Ug/Advocacy to sponsor it > instead. But again, that should be up to the core contributors of said > community. > >>>> Secondly, the name. If there is exactly one distribution developed within >>>> the OpenSolaris community, it will be called "the OpenSolaris >>>> distribution" whatever artificial attempts are made to name it something >>>> else. >>> >>> But there isn't exactly one distribution... we have 5 that I count (not >>> including Indiana). Indiana will only be called "the OpenSolaris >>> distribution" if people insist on it. That's what I'm opposed to. >> >> Right now there exactly zero distributions developed withing the community >> - that's not my words, that (as Laurent points out elsewhere) is how we >> describe ourselves on http://www.opensolaris.org/os/about/ : >>> The main difference between the OpenSolaris project and the Solaris >>> Operating System is that the OpenSolaris project does not provide an >>> end-user product or complete distribution. >> >> What multiple people have suggested is it's time to change that as it is >> confusing for newcomers. I completely support that change. > > Incorrect. You are misreading "OpenSolaris project" as "OpenSolaris > community". That text states that "the OpenSolaris project" doesn't provide > a distribution, not the OpenSolaris community. I agree the text is > confusing; but the point it's trying to make is what our initial message of > OpenSolaris has always stated: > > OpenSolaris is a set of source code from which others base > distributions. > > This has always been 100% true and correct. Others within the community > (including Sun) have derived binary distributions based on OpenSolaris source > code. > > So I disagree that there are exactly zero distributions developed within the > community. > > cheers, > steve > -- > stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net > opensolaris // solaris kernel development > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > From Michal.Pryc at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 08:51:44 2007 From: Michal.Pryc at Sun.COM (Michal Pryc) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:51:44 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4666D810.5050104@Sun.Com> Jim Grisanzio wrote: > /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and > User Group communities/ > > > hey ... > > I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group > Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html > > The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list > can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this > project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've > suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: > > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html > > Agree? Disagree? Hello, For the last few weeks there was probably 1000+ e-mails about project Indiana. That is brilliant, since it tells that this conversation was really needed, and this kind of project is also needed. I was trying to follow the threads, some people were pointing very important things and some just complaining without being creative. I think that they just do like to complain :) First people received a lot of messages on the opensolaris-discuss, than the conversation was spreading in the light speed to the other mailing lists. (I will try to complain a little. I hope with some creative thought). Maybe this is a time to create indiana-discuss mailing list, and just point to alias on the other mailing-lists, so the discussion will move up there. Why? - people that are returning after 3 days off will not have 200+ messages in the mailbox (most of them will not even try to touch the thread) - everything will be in one place, so there will be no cross mailing - people that are not interested, will not resign from subscribing to the mailing lists, just because they get to much messages - much more reasons :) -- best Michal Pryc Member of Irish OpenSolaris Users Group http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/ie-osug/ http://blogs.sun.com/migi From webmink at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:54:25 2007 From: webmink at sun.com (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:54:25 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> Message-ID: <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:50, Eric Boutilier wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >> Simon Phipps wrote: >>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>>>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or >>>>> Advocacy. It should be in a place where co-development >>>>> engineers will participate. That is not here. >>>> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs >>>> of non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? >>> In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd >>> suggest though that a "Distributions" community is a more >>> appropriate venue. >> >> Agreed. > > Me too. > >> Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community >> doesn't exist > > I'd be very willing to help start one. > > Here are the key requirements per the main Community page: > > ... Proposals need to list at least 3 current Core Contributors > who are > nominating the community, at least 3 participants who will > become the > initial Core Contributors of the new community, and one person > who will > serve as the community's Facilitator... > > I'm a Core Contributor, and we probably have several others on > this discussion who are as well... I would support that proposal (I am a core contributor). S. From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:55:56 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:55:56 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666D810.5050104@Sun.Com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666D810.5050104@Sun.Com> Message-ID: <4666D90C.2080302@sun.com> Michal Pryc wrote: > Jim Grisanzio wrote: >> /sending to both lists due to the possible merger of the Marketing and >> User Group communities/ >> >> >> hey ... >> >> I'd like to suggest that the Marketing Community and/or the User Group >> Community endorse Glynn's Project Indiana proposal: >> >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000555.html >> >> The team needs a sponsoring community so a project space and mail list >> can be set up, and I think our communities should be involved in this >> project since we stand to benefit from its potential success. I've >> suggested this to Glynn on the OGB list: >> >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000819.html >> >> Agree? Disagree? > > Hello, > For the last few weeks there was probably 1000+ e-mails about project > Indiana. That is brilliant, since it tells that this conversation was > really needed, and this kind of project is also needed. > > I was trying to follow the threads, some people were pointing very > important things and some just complaining without being creative. I > think that they just do like to complain :) > > First people received a lot of messages on the opensolaris-discuss, than > the conversation was spreading in the light speed to the other mailing > lists. > > (I will try to complain a little. I hope with some creative thought). > > Maybe this is a time to create indiana-discuss mailing list, and just > point to alias on the other mailing-lists, so the discussion will move > up there. Why? > > - people that are returning after 3 days off will not have 200+ messages > in the mailbox (most of them will not even try to touch the thread) > - everything will be in one place, so there will be no cross mailing > - people that are not interested, will not resign from subscribing to > the mailing lists, just because they get to much messages > - much more reasons :) > This whole thread has been about getting the marketing community to sponsor Project Indiana so that it can get project space, and thus a mailing list. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 08:56:26 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:56:26 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:50, Eric Boutilier wrote: > >> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>>>>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. >>>>>> It should be in a place where co-development engineers will >>>>>> participate. That is not here. >>>>> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >>>>> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? >>>> In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd >>>> suggest though that a "Distributions" community is a more >>>> appropriate venue. >>> >>> Agreed. >> >> Me too. >> >>> Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community >>> doesn't exist >> >> I'd be very willing to help start one. >> >> Here are the key requirements per the main Community page: >> >> ... Proposals need to list at least 3 current Core Contributors >> who are >> nominating the community, at least 3 participants who will become the >> initial Core Contributors of the new community, and one person who >> will >> serve as the community's Facilitator... >> >> I'm a Core Contributor, and we probably have several others on >> this discussion who are as well... > > I would support that proposal (I am a core contributor). I'll nominate as well. -steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Keith.Bierman at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 08:58:31 2007 From: Keith.Bierman at Sun.COM (Keith Bierman) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:58:31 -0600 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> Message-ID: <853614B3-850B-4CD7-95ED-0747713DF29F@sun.com> On Jun 6, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Eric Boutilier wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Simon Phipps wrote: >> >> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >> >> Right now there exactly zero distributions developed withing the >> community - > > As I said, that's wrong. Nexenta, BeleniX and other existing > distros are, > by all rights and intentions, projects of and by the OpenSolaris > community. Others have already pointed out the text in the OpenSolaris charter which seems at variance with this position. Rather than arguing about how we can interpret the words to allow this reality, let's just adjust the words which are causing confusion. It seems to me that there's an obviously useful set of moves to make things clear: 1) Create the Distro group. Invite all of the existing distros based on OpenSolaris to join and use it for interDistro discussion. a) Encourage intraDistro discussions to migrate to this hosting area as well b) Discourage leveraging this infrastructure for the download hosting of the distros themselves ;> 2) Work with the Marketing groups and/or Execs to appropriately license the use of the term "OpenSolaris" as a brand for all distros which meet some set of constraints. 3) The spark of this discussion was Project Indiana which probably should have a special place. Just as Debian is the UrDistribution for a whole raft of Linux distros, so it is probable that will happen to a successful Solaris UrDistro. Hopefully we won't have to fission as much as they have (viz. make and continue to evolve the Solaris UrDistro fast enough to satisfy the bulk of needs) but if architected well, those with special needs should be able to derive from it, rather than going back to the original sources. The proposal that this UrDistro uniquely be called OpenSolaris is probably a BadProposal. I don't have a good name (DebIan suggests names like JonIan; but there really are too many potential three letters to represent either Execs or Engineers whose blood sweat and tears should be commemorated). I doubt people would like to cannonize a name like UrDistro ;> Keith H. Bierman keith.bierman at Sun.COM | khbkhb at gmail.com Sun Microsystems Microelectronics Group | sun IM: khb AIM: kbiermank 5430 Nassau Circle East | 650-352-4432 voice+fax Cherry Hills Village, CO 80113 | sun internal 68207 http://blogs.sun.com/khb | 303-997-2749 Copyright 2007 From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 09:01:53 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:01:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666D61E.5060501@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4666D61E.5060501@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Patrick Finch wrote: > > > Alan Coopersmith wrote: >> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by >>> Sun" mutually exclusive? >> >> They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had >> asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have been >> denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive is >> pushing for this project. >> >> Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that >> people >> think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". >> > > Understood - you're right that there is an obvious asymmetry in the > relationship. My point was just that naming a distro "OpenSolaris" wouldn't > prevent it from being driven purely within the community. Excellent point (misconceptions abound in that regard). Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 10:24:16 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:24:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: >> >> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:50, Eric Boutilier wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>>>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>>>>>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >>>>>>> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >>>>>>> That is not here. >>>>>> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >>>>>> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? >>>>> In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd suggest >>>>> though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate venue. >>>> >>>> Agreed. >>> >>> Me too. >>> >>>> Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community doesn't >>>> exist >>> >>> I'd be very willing to help start one. >>> >>> Here are the key requirements per the main Community page: >>> >>> ... Proposals need to list at least 3 current Core Contributors who >>> are >>> nominating the community, at least 3 participants who will become the >>> initial Core Contributors of the new community, and one person who >>> will >>> serve as the community's Facilitator... >>> >>> I'm a Core Contributor, and we probably have several others on >>> this discussion who are as well... >> >> I would support that proposal (I am a core contributor). > > I'll nominate as well. OK, that's three[1]. So when it comes to creating a new Community Group, the biggest delay is a required 14-day discussion period[2]. So in the interest of starting that timer as soon as possible, I hope to pull together and post/review a 1st draft of the proposal here as soon as possible. And with that in mind, I'll get there even faster if I have a tailwind. Which is to say, if anyone can contribute bullets or paragraphs, especially wording around goals and technical scope, any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Here are the guidelines they provide for proposal writers: ".. Community members can propose new Community Groups by writing to the ogb-discuss list outlining items such as goals, technical scope, potential participants, leaders, and activities..." --Eric 1. Keep those nominations coming though -- three is just the required minimum. 2. Please direct any comments about excessive beuracracy to opensolaris-discuss :) From pedro.gomez at sun.com Wed Jun 6 10:26:16 2007 From: pedro.gomez at sun.com (Pedro Gomez) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:26:16 PDT Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <10073048.1181150806594.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> Hi. Agree on sponsoring. I have similar doubts with regards to the name of the distro. I don't believe the intention is to call it OpenSolaris right?. It could create confusion since distros are supposed to spawn from OpenSolaris. So after setting up camp (site, mailing lists, etc) the name of the distro and its relationships should probably follow. The problem is, that this has been a blurred line for some people, the fact that OpenSolaris started with kernel code, followed by drivers, networking, install gui, etc.. hinted the idea that eventually it was going to be an OpenSolaris distribution... If it not the case, and I understand is not, then it should have the same treatment that the other distros have ( belenix, shillix,nexenta.. etc.) I actually like Indiana a lot... Pedro This message posted from opensolaris.org From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 10:33:31 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:33:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: Should we maybe send an heads-up message to the leadership of the five distros? (Six including Indiana.) I suspect some of them would not otherwise know about this effort. Eric On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Eric Boutilier wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >> Simon Phipps wrote: >>> >>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:50, Eric Boutilier wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>>>>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>>>>>>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >>>>>>>> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >>>>>>>> That is not here. >>>>>>> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >>>>>>> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? >>>>>> In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd >>>>>> suggest though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate >>>>>> venue. >>>>> >>>>> Agreed. >>>> >>>> Me too. >>>> >>>>> Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community doesn't >>>>> exist >>>> >>>> I'd be very willing to help start one. >>>> >>>> Here are the key requirements per the main Community page: >>>> >>>> ... Proposals need to list at least 3 current Core Contributors who >>>> are >>>> nominating the community, at least 3 participants who will become the >>>> initial Core Contributors of the new community, and one person who >>>> will >>>> serve as the community's Facilitator... >>>> >>>> I'm a Core Contributor, and we probably have several others on >>>> this discussion who are as well... >>> >>> I would support that proposal (I am a core contributor). >> >> I'll nominate as well. > > OK, that's three[1]. > > So when it comes to creating a new Community Group, the biggest delay is a > required 14-day discussion period[2]. So in the interest of starting that > timer as soon as possible, I hope to pull together and post/review a 1st > draft of the proposal here as soon as possible. And with that in mind, I'll > get there even faster if I have a tailwind. Which is to say, if anyone can > contribute bullets or paragraphs, especially wording around goals and > technical scope, any and all help would be greatly appreciated. > > Here are the guidelines they provide for proposal writers: > > ".. Community members can propose new Community Groups by > writing to the ogb-discuss list outlining items such as > goals, technical scope, potential participants, leaders, > and activities..." > > --Eric > > 1. Keep those nominations coming though -- three is just the > required minimum. > > 2. Please direct any comments about excessive beuracracy to > opensolaris-discuss :) > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 6 10:35:43 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:35:43 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: <4666F06F.2060408@sun.com> Yes, good idea. Eric Boutilier wrote: > Should we maybe send an heads-up message to the leadership of > the five distros? (Six including Indiana.) I suspect some of > them would not otherwise know about this effort. > > Eric > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Eric Boutilier wrote: >> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>> >>>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:50, Eric Boutilier wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: >>>>>>>> Simon Phipps wrote: >>>>>>>>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>>>>>>>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or >>>>>>>>> Advocacy. It should be in a place where co-development >>>>>>>>> engineers will participate. That is not here. >>>>>>>> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs >>>>>>>> of non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? >>>>>>> In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd >>>>>>> suggest though that a "Distributions" community is a more >>>>>>> appropriate venue. >>>>>> >>>>>> Agreed. >>>>> >>>>> Me too. >>>>> >>>>>> Though, for the time being, since the "Distributions" community >>>>>> doesn't exist >>>>> >>>>> I'd be very willing to help start one. >>>>> >>>>> Here are the key requirements per the main Community page: >>>>> >>>>> ... Proposals need to list at least 3 current Core Contributors >>>>> who are >>>>> nominating the community, at least 3 participants who will >>>>> become the >>>>> initial Core Contributors of the new community, and one person >>>>> who will >>>>> serve as the community's Facilitator... >>>>> >>>>> I'm a Core Contributor, and we probably have several others on >>>>> this discussion who are as well... >>>> >>>> I would support that proposal (I am a core contributor). >>> >>> I'll nominate as well. >> >> OK, that's three[1]. >> >> So when it comes to creating a new Community Group, the biggest delay >> is a >> required 14-day discussion period[2]. So in the interest of starting that >> timer as soon as possible, I hope to pull together and post/review a 1st >> draft of the proposal here as soon as possible. And with that in mind, >> I'll >> get there even faster if I have a tailwind. Which is to say, if anyone >> can >> contribute bullets or paragraphs, especially wording around goals and >> technical scope, any and all help would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Here are the guidelines they provide for proposal writers: >> >> ".. Community members can propose new Community Groups by >> writing to the ogb-discuss list outlining items such as >> goals, technical scope, potential participants, leaders, >> and activities..." >> >> --Eric >> >> 1. Keep those nominations coming though -- three is just the >> required minimum. >> >> 2. Please direct any comments about excessive beuracracy to >> opensolaris-discuss :) >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org >> -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 10:38:48 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:38:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: > ... > > 2. Please direct any comments about excessive beuracracy to > opensolaris-discuss. ... and poor spelling to /dev/null. :-/ From peter.tribble at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 10:47:00 2007 From: peter.tribble at gmail.com (Peter Tribble) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:47:00 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: On 6/6/07, Eric Boutilier wrote: > Should we maybe send an heads-up message to the leadership of > the five distros? (Six including Indiana.) I suspect some of > them would not otherwise know about this effort. Having a ditribution community proposal come from elsewhere without their involvement and agreement would seem undesirable. In fact, they should be leading such an effort - one might rightly ask why they did not come up with the proposal themselves? I have some problems with a distributions community. One is that the immediate objective seems to be to find Indiana a home, which seems backward (especially given that the Install community is a pretty good fit, and while not all the core contributors have chimed in yet, we have the required 3 +1 votes and no -1 yet). The other is that, constitutionally, a community exists to initiate and manage projects, so that if it were to do what it's supposed to then the distributions would either (a) choose to not be a part of the distributions community, or (b) no longer be independent agents free to do their own thing. Neither option seems desirable, so why create a formal management structure? -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 11:06:13 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:06:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Peter Tribble wrote: > On 6/6/07, Eric Boutilier wrote: >> Should we maybe send an heads-up message to the leadership of >> the five distros? (Six including Indiana.) I suspect some of >> them would not otherwise know about this effort. > > Having a ditribution community proposal come from elsewhere > without their involvement and agreement would seem undesirable. > In fact, they should be leading such an effort - one might rightly > ask why they did not come up with the proposal themselves? > > I have some problems with a distributions community. One is that > the immediate objective seems to be to find Indiana a home, Uh oh. Hopefully you're mostly alone in that perception. That's pretty scary otherwise. For my part, as most (hopefully) know by now, it's unthinkable (beyond unthinkable) for that to have been my objective. Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 11:24:25 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:24:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Peter Tribble wrote: > On 6/6/07, Eric Boutilier wrote: >> Should we maybe send an heads-up message to the leadership of >> the five distros? (Six including Indiana.) I suspect some of >> them would not otherwise know about this effort. > > Having a ditribution community proposal come from elsewhere > without their involvement and agreement would seem undesirable. > In fact, they should be leading such an effort - one might rightly > ask why they did not come up with the proposal themselves? > > I have some problems with a distributions community. One is that > the immediate objective seems to be to find Indiana a home, which > seems backward (especially given that the Install community is a > pretty good fit, and while not all the core contributors have chimed > in yet, we have the required 3 +1 votes and no -1 yet). The other is > that, constitutionally, a community exists to initiate and manage > projects, so that if it were to do what it's supposed to then the > distributions would either (a) choose to not be a part of the > distributions community, or (b) no longer be independent agents > free to do their own thing. Neither option seems desirable, so why > create a formal management structure? Good point. Code talks. So I agree that the degree and diversity of interest that comes from the distros (or not) will strengthen (or weaken) this proposal proportionally, and that it should probably be aborted if the distros mostly explicitely object to the creation of a distros community group. Eric From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 11:41:50 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:41:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: > ... > (especially given that the Install community is a > pretty good fit, and while not all the core contributors have chimed > in yet, we have the required 3 +1 votes and no -1 yet). Putting on my "Project Herald" hat[1] ... It actually doesn't matter how many Community Groups (CGs) a project belongs to. So in this situation, the Indiana project creation request can happen immediately (e.g via the Installation CG, or via the Advocacy CG, which also now supports it). Indiana will then have 2 endorsing CGs at the outset and a 3rd if the Distro CG becomes a reality. Eric 1. Cool designation huh? Anyone want it? :-) From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 12:43:07 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 14:43:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Distro Community Group proposal initiative Message-ID: Dear leaders of OpenSolaris based distros, The purpose of this message is to seek your input/involvement in an effort to create a "Distro Community Group" on opensolaris.org. Please feel free to forward, post, or otherwise redistribute this message in any way you see fit. The initiative, which started today, aims to create a new OpenSolaris Community Group for supporting distro Projects and distro-related Projects. As you may know, Community Groups are the official entities under which OpenSolaris Projects fall, and therefore have substantial influence in the OpenSolaris Community. We would value your comments in this effort to create a Distros Community Group, as well as the comments of your users, developers, and other advocates. And of course if you wish to become directly involved, that would be even more valuable. The discussion is taking place ("cross-posted") on two mailing-lists: ug-discuss at opensolaris.org (the main User Groups list) and opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org (the OpenSolaris Marketing list). I think the following post will provide you with a quick overview of the current state of the initiative. But I also encourage you to read the entire thread. http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ug-discuss/2007-June/001987.html Eric Boutilier OpenSolaris Core Contributor, User Group Community From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 14:20:02 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 09:20:02 +1200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> Message-ID: <46672502.5030506@sun.com> Hey, Stephen Lau wrote: > Simon Phipps wrote: >> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >> >> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It >> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. >> That is not here. > > But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of > non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? At the end of the day I suspect it won't matter - we'll have a project page, and some community groups will endorse that or not through the web infrastructure [1]. I agree with the intent of wanting to get a community group to sponsor any project request, but think it's somewhat redundant when the project starts. Glynn [1] I'll certainly make sure the Desktop endorses, as it would if Belenix, Nexenta or otherwise was a community proposal - there's a lot of overlap there, and would expect the desktop dudes to be involved From lasarux at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 14:33:56 2007 From: lasarux at gmail.com (Pedro Gracia) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 23:33:56 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46672502.5030506@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <46672502.5030506@sun.com> Message-ID: To finish this day, a bit of humor with this tribute to "Indiana" Murdock "Jones" and The Last Crusade. ;-) http://lasarux.blogspot.com/2007/06/indiana-indy-la-ltima-cruzada.html (in Spanish). Cheers, Pedro 2007/6/6, Glynn Foster : > > Hey, > > Stephen Lau wrote: > > Simon Phipps wrote: > >> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. > >> > >> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It > >> should be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. > >> That is not here. > > > > But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of > > non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? > > At the end of the day I suspect it won't matter - we'll have a project > page, and > some community groups will endorse that or not through the web > infrastructure > [1]. I agree with the intent of wanting to get a community group to > sponsor any > project request, but think it's somewhat redundant when the project > starts. > > > Glynn > > [1] I'll certainly make sure the Desktop endorses, as it would if Belenix, > Nexenta or otherwise was a community proposal - there's a lot of > overlap > there, and would expect the desktop dudes to be involved > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org > -- Pedro A. Gracia Fajardo http://lasarux.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 16:51:42 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:51:42 +1200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Distro Community Group proposal initiative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4667488E.2050008@sun.com> Hey, Eric Boutilier wrote: > Dear leaders of OpenSolaris based distros, > > The purpose of this message is to seek your input/involvement in an > effort to create a "Distro Community Group" on opensolaris.org. I know I can't speak for Ian, but I think this is an *excellent* idea and would love to be part of a distribution community. Rock on! Glynn From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 17:00:14 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:00:14 -0500 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Distro Community Group proposal initiative In-Reply-To: <4667488E.2050008@sun.com> References: <4667488E.2050008@sun.com> Message-ID: <46674A8E.9060009@sun.com> This sounds like the most appropriate solution. Count me in. Sara Glynn Foster wrote: > Hey, > > Eric Boutilier wrote: > >> Dear leaders of OpenSolaris based distros, >> >> The purpose of this message is to seek your input/involvement in an >> effort to create a "Distro Community Group" on opensolaris.org. >> > > I know I can't speak for Ian, but I think this is an *excellent* idea and would > love to be part of a distribution community. > > > Rock on! > > Glynn > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM Wed Jun 6 17:13:10 2007 From: Glynn.Foster at Sun.COM (Glynn Foster) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:13:10 +1200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <46672502.5030506@sun.com> Message-ID: <46674D96.9030704@sun.com> Pedro Gracia wrote: > To finish this day, a bit of humor with this tribute to "Indiana" > Murdock "Jones" and The Last Crusade. ;-) > > http://lasarux.blogspot.com/2007/06/indiana-indy-la-ltima-cruzada.html > > (in Spanish). Hahaha - awesome! That's totally worth an OpenSolaris swag pack! Send me your address off list, and I'll figure something out. Perfect hackergotchi too :) Glynn From venkytv at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 21:26:11 2007 From: venkytv at gmail.com (Venky) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 09:56:11 +0530 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <4666D500.1070508@sun.com> <1259DCE7-360B-4BF0-8FDF-BD35D86B984D@sun.com> <4666D92A.1010601@sun.com> Message-ID: <20070607042611.GB4371@spikesource.com> > 1. Keep those nominations coming though -- three is just the > required minimum. Another vote, from a core contributor. Venky. From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Thu Jun 7 07:35:34 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 09:35:34 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> Message-ID: [Revisiting this sub-thread between Simon and Steve]... On Wed, 6 Jun 2007, Simon Phipps wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2007, at 16:14, Stephen Lau wrote: > >> Simon Phipps wrote: >>> I'm afraid I don't agree on either count. >>> This is an engineering project. It is not Marketing or Advocacy. It should >>> be in a place where co-development engineers will participate. That is not >>> here. I agree with Simon. >> >> But isn't part of Indiana about addressing the perceived needs of >> non-Solaris users? Doesn't that involve marketing and advocacy? > > In which case many other aspects of OpenSolaris belong here. I'd suggest > though that a "Distributions" community is a more appropriate venue. Although a Distributions community would indeed be an appropriate venue -- /if/ it existed. There isn't a Distributions Community Group today, and for good reason (I now realize)... Quoting Peter Tribble: "... Why create a formal management structure" Full post: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-mktg/2007-June/003854.html Eric From brian.gupta at gmail.com Thu Jun 7 08:18:55 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:18:55 -0400 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> Message-ID: <5b5090780706070818h4344ca95p790b4ae486a94a68@mail.gmail.com> How difficult is it to move a mailing list? I ask, cause might it not make sense to setup indiana-discuss now, and then move it to the appropriate community once you all have figured out where to put it? Does it really matter whether it is "technical" or "engineering"? I say that because I suspect if Indiana catches on, it will eventually be promoted to it's own community. Let's just creat the project and mailing list, and tie it to either the marketing, install, or approachability communities. (Marketing and install have seconded lets just make the list.) (I think the people who are proposing the project should make a quick executive decision which community it goes in. I personally prefer approachability, but that is probably just me). brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Thu Jun 7 08:38:23 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:38:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <5b5090780706070818h4344ca95p790b4ae486a94a68@mail.gmail.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <4666CF65.9050001@sun.com> <35353738-43AB-4B6B-BBA6-8D17B89F4D0A@sun.com> <5b5090780706070818h4344ca95p790b4ae486a94a68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2007, Brian Gupta wrote: > How difficult is it to move a mailing list? I ask, cause might it not make > sense to setup indiana-discuss now, and then move it to the appropriate > community once you all have figured out where to put it? > > Does it really matter whether it is "technical" or "engineering"? I think only in one minor way, and only at the outset (i.e. now): One of the Community Groups that has endorsed the Indiana project proposal (two so far AFAIK) needs to submit the new-project request. Other than that, a project can belong to any number of Community Groups. > I say that > because I suspect if Indiana catches on, it will eventually be promoted to > it's own community. Agree. > Let's just creat the project and mailing list, and tie it to either the > marketing, install, or approachability communities. (Marketing and install > have seconded lets just make the list.) > ... Hang in there, Glynn's working on it. Eric From stevel at sun.com Thu Jun 7 17:19:29 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 17:19:29 -0700 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Advocates (Advocacy) Community Group In-Reply-To: <46513B2D.4030405@Sun.COM> References: <463056AA.50108@Sun.COM> <46513B2D.4030405@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4668A091.4020609@sun.com> We voted on this yesterday and it was approved unanimously. I believe you will need the help of Derek to do the merger (who is on vacation at the moment), but this has cleared the OGB. It's all merely technical details from here on out ... ;-) (and I imagine this is rather complex for Derek to do, so please be patient - this won't happen overnight) cheers, steve Jim Grisanzio wrote: > FYI: > > The OGB will vote on this formally when they have a full meeting (one > member is out of town). Two members have said that the proposal looks > fine, so we should be in good shape. > > Also, Ben Rockwood has proposed that the Immigrants Community be part of > the merger: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/immigrants/ > > Ben's proposal on the OGB list: > http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000520.html > > I think it's fine, but I wanted everyone to see in case anyone had an > opinion either way. > > Jim -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Jun 7 23:20:49 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:20:49 +0900 Subject: [osol-mktg] Re: [ug-discuss] Advocates (Advocacy) Community Group In-Reply-To: <4668A091.4020609@sun.com> References: <463056AA.50108@Sun.COM> <46513B2D.4030405@Sun.COM> <4668A091.4020609@sun.com> Message-ID: <4668F541.5020902@Sun.COM> Stephen Lau wrote: > We voted on this yesterday and it was approved unanimously. I believe > you will need the help of Derek to do the merger (who is on vacation at > the moment), but this has cleared the OGB. It's all merely technical > details from here on out ... ;-) > > (and I imagine this is rather complex for Derek to do, so please be > patient - this won't happen overnight) > > cheers, > steve Cool. Thanks, Steve. Jim > Jim Grisanzio wrote: > >> FYI: >> >> The OGB will vote on this formally when they have a full meeting (one >> member is out of town). Two members have said that the proposal looks >> fine, so we should be in good shape. >> >> Also, Ben Rockwood has proposed that the Immigrants Community be part >> of the merger: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/immigrants/ >> >> Ben's proposal on the OGB list: >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-May/000520.html >> >> I think it's fine, but I wanted everyone to see in case anyone had an >> opinion either way. >> >> Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris From james.walker at sun.com Tue Jun 12 10:54:24 2007 From: james.walker at sun.com (Jim Walker) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:54:24 PDT Subject: [ug-discuss] FROSUG June Meeting Announcement (6/28/2007) Message-ID: <23338113.1181670894926.JavaMail.Twebapp@oss-app1> This month's FROSUG (Front Range OpenSolaris User Group) meeting is on Thursday, June 28, 2007. Bonnie Corwin will give an OpenSolaris Engineering Update. In addition, we will be celebrating the 2-year OpenSolaris anniversary! !! FREE OpenSolaris Starter Kits and Solaris Express Developer Edition DVDs. !! About the presentation: The OpenSolaris Engineering Team Update will include information on the following areas: - New Open Code/Communities/Projects/Contributions - New Country Portals - New OGB Processes - Source Code Management: moving to Mercurial - Website: operational infrastructure and open sourcing application code The presentation will be posted on http://frosug.org prior to the meeting. About our presenter: Bonnie Corwin is a Senior Engineering Manager at Sun Microsystems and the OpenSolaris Engineering Team manager. She has worked at Sun for 15 years in various software engineering and management roles. The OpenSolaris Engineering Team investigated the feasibility of opening the Solaris source code, ran the pre-launch OpenSolaris Pilot program and executed the launch of OpenSolaris. It currently manages the OpenSolaris site infrastructure including site hosting operations and website applications and supports key community activities including the OpenSolaris governance process and elections, OpenSolaris code contributions, bug tracking, source code management, country portals, the OpenSolaris Starter Kit and conferences. ----- Meeting Details: When: Thursday, June 28, 2007 Times: 6:00pm - 6:30pm Doors open and Pizza 6:30pm - 6:45pm OpenSolaris 2-year Anniversary Celebration 6:45pm - 8:30pm OpenSolaris Engineering Update Where: Sun Broomfield Campus Building 1 - Conference Center 500 Eldorado Blvd. Broomfield, CO 80021 Dialin: 866-545-5220 Access Code: 9303067 The meeting is free and open to the public. Pizza and soft drinks will be served at the beginning of the meeting. Please RSVP to rsvp(AT)frosug.org in order to help us plan for food and setup access to the Sun campus. We hope to see you there! Thanks, FROSUG ----- Future Meeting Plans: If you have ideas for topics or have a topic you would like to present, send them to: ug-frosug(AT)opensolaris(DOT)org This message posted from opensolaris.org From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Tue Jun 12 18:07:35 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:07:35 +0900 Subject: [ug-discuss] Japan Community Events Message-ID: <466F4357.8000901@Sun.COM> Hi ... I've been to a few events in Tokyo recently, and since OpenSolaris has been a part of all of them I figured I'd pass around some photo links: * http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris/entry/developers_lounge * http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris/entry/ruby_kaigi_2007 * http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris/entry/some_josh_shots Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris -- From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 08:26:19 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:26:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2007, Joerg Schilling wrote: > Alan Coopersmith wrote: > >> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by >>> Sun" mutually exclusive? >> >> They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had >> asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have been >> denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive is >> pushing for this project. >> >> Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that people >> think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". > > If Sun would name a distro "opensolaris" this would cause a big confusion > for many people. I totally agree, however, IMO, if the OpenSolaris Community were to name a distro OpenSolaris, it would not cause much confusion. My personal interpretation[1] of that kind of scenario is that we (the OpenSolaris Community) could do the following: - Follow the group voting procedures documented in the constitution. - Subsequently, if there is a positive result from the vote, collaborate with Sun (the Software Marketing group would be my guess) on terms. That is, for the specific use of the word OpenSolaris that was voted on. Thoughts anyone? Eric 1. Which is to say, not Sun's interpretation nor anyone else's. From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 11:59:14 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:59:14 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of confusing people should disqualify the idea. Patrick Joerg Schilling wrote: > Alan Coopersmith wrote: > >> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by >>> Sun" mutually exclusive? >> They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had >> asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have been >> denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive is >> pushing for this project. >> >> Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that people >> think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". > > If Sun would name a distro "opensolaris" this would cause a big confusion > for many people. > > J?rg > From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 13:21:15 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:21:15 -0500 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> Joerg Schilling wrote: > Patrick Finch wrote: > > >> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the >> confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >> >> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >> > > Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for > diesel oil product? > I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common practice and expected. > There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" > is not a product name but the name for a software base. > > J?rg > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 13 13:31:32 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:31:32 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> Message-ID: <46705424.2030705@sun.com> Patrick Finch wrote: > Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to > communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the > confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. > > I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro > "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of > confusing people should disqualify the idea. Well it depends. There seems to be a disconnect across the Sun corporation as to *what* OpenSolaris is... which is partially what has led to the current confusion as to what OpenSolaris is. Ignoring the trademark issue aside for now, if you changed what OpenSolaris is (i.e.: now it's a whizzy distribution), but you don't change the messaging: then it *WILL* still be confusing to people. If you change what OpenSolaris is, but you unify the messaging coming out of Sun as to what OpenSolaris is so that we're all behind it 100%, then I think we'll be fine (once we get over the initial confusion of switching) Sorry did that make sense? cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 13 13:32:21 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:32:21 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <46705455.5030107@sun.com> Joerg Schilling wrote: > Patrick Finch wrote: > >> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the >> confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >> >> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >> confusing people should disqualify the idea. > > Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for > diesel oil product? > > There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" > is not a product name but the name for a software base. ... but people *haven't* learned that OpenSolaris is not a product name. Look how many messages continue to come into opensolaris-discuss that say things like "I just installed OpenSolaris V10". cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 13 13:33:53 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:33:53 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> Message-ID: <467054B1.5000109@sun.com> Sara Dornsife wrote: > Joerg Schilling wrote: >> Patrick Finch wrote: >> >> >>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the >>> confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>> >>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >>> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>> >> >> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >> diesel oil product? >> > > I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or > Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM > (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common > practice and expected. And when you go to Sun's Solaris Express page and download Solaris Express, you get Solaris Express. And when you go to Belenix's page and download Belenix, you get Belenix. ... the better analogy (for our current situation) is you go to http://www.linux.org Do you get Linux? No, you get information about Linux with pointers to various distributions of Linux. ... not unlike what you get at opensolaris.org. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From michelle.olson at sun.com Wed Jun 13 13:44:10 2007 From: michelle.olson at sun.com (michelle olson) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:44:10 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> Message-ID: <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> Hi Sara, Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go to fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines and read about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. This is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to 'stay tuned'. Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How about a mailing list for questions? These details and information about how any of these rules are going to change in support of the new effort is the critical information that we need to provide. Thanks, Michelle Sara Dornsife wrote: > Joerg Schilling wrote: >> Patrick Finch wrote: >> >> >>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the >>> confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>> >>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >>> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>> >> >> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >> diesel oil product? >> > > I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or > Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM > (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common > practice and expected. > >> There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" >> is not a product name but the name for a software base. >> >> J?rg >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > opensolaris-mktg mailing list > opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 13:57:46 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:57:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> Message-ID: Patrick Finch wrote: > .. > ... For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the confusion that > "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS... Is there anybody here who hasn't been? In my opinion, this represents a huge, self-inflicted disconnect that exists between us (The OpenSolaris Community) and the broader UNIX/Linux community that needs to be fixed... somehow. So I hope we make so -- "by hook or by crook!" as my mother would say. Oh, and applause to Ian and Glynn for shining a big spotlight on this problem too. -Eric "The audience is never wrong. Never." - William Friedkin From Simon.Phipps at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 14:08:16 2007 From: Simon.Phipps at Sun.COM (Simon Phipps) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:08:16 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> Message-ID: On Jun 13, 2007, at 21:44, michelle olson wrote: > Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I > go to fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/ > TrademarkGuidelines and read about the trademark usage, I get > information that makes sense. This is not the case when I go to > http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I get information that is out > of date, promises not kept and a message to 'stay tuned'. The content of the page appears to my eyes to be correct and to be in- sync with the Constitution, and the last-updated date in March is old but not ancient. I believe you are being too harsh. We certainly do need answers from Sun. In the current context of change we may need some questions /to/ Sun first, though. > Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the > trademark? Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How > about a mailing list for questions? These details and information > about how any of these rules are going to change in support of the > new effort is the critical information that we need to provide. Great questions. But since the "new effort" is too new to have any plans yet, it's premature to expect this page to be decided in advance of it. I can't get over the way folk keep assuming Sun is orchestrating a behind-the scenes game and then by turns criticise Sun for either doing so or for failing to do so. S. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2494 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Wed Jun 13 08:04:12 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:04:12 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> Message-ID: <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Patrick Finch wrote: > > Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by > > Sun" mutually exclusive? > > They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had > asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have been > denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive is > pushing for this project. > > Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that people > think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". If Sun would name a distro "opensolaris" this would cause a big confusion for many people. J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Wed Jun 13 13:07:14 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:07:14 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> Message-ID: <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Patrick Finch wrote: > Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to > communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with the > confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. > > I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro > "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of > confusing people should disqualify the idea. Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for diesel oil product? There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" is not a product name but the name for a software base. J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From dirk.wetter at drwetter.org Wed Jun 13 14:17:13 2007 From: dirk.wetter at drwetter.org (Dirk Wetter) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:17:13 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> Message-ID: <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> Hi Sara, Michelle, Am 13.06.07 22:44, michelle olson schrieb: > Hi Sara, > > Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go to > fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines > and read about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. > This is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I > get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to > 'stay tuned'. > > Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? > Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How about a mailing > list for questions? These details and information about how any of these > rules are going to change in support of the new effort is the critical > information that we need to provide. It's kind of off topic but since you and Sara seems to be reading this: if you install SXDE/SXCR you get all over the place Solaris, not OpenSolaris logos. That is also inconsistent and it is probably confusing everybody outside Sun. If you install the community distribution OpenSuse you will see logos/coporate look and feel of the community distribution Opensuse, but not of Novell's commercial counter part SLED/SLES. Same with Fedora/RHEL. Isn't this the way it should be? Cheers, Dirk PS: RHEL= Red Hat Enterprise Linux SLES/D= Suse Enterprise Server/Desktop > Thanks, > Michelle > > Sara Dornsife wrote: >> Joerg Schilling wrote: >>> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with >>>> the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>>> >>>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >>>> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>>> >>> >>> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >>> diesel oil product? >>> >> >> I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or >> Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM >> (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common >> practice and expected. >> >>> There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" >>> is not a product name but the name for a software base. >>> >>> J?rg >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org -- Dirk Wetter @ Dr. Wetter IT-Consulting http://drwetter.org Beratung IT-Sicherheit + Open Source Key fingerprint = 2AD6 BE0F 9863 C82D 21B3 64E5 C967 34D8 11B7 C62F - Found core file older than 7 days: /usr/share/man/man5/core.5.gz From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 14:18:58 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:18:58 -0500 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> Message-ID: <46705F42.8020600@sun.com> michelle olson wrote: > Hi Sara, > > Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go > to fedora web site > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines and read about > the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. This is not > the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I get > information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to > 'stay tuned'. > > Will we be fixing that? Yes > Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? To a point. The TM will always be protected. Not only because it belongs to Sun, but because it is the right thing to do. > Under what conditions? Let's open that up. I can act as an intermediary with Sun on this. What are we looking for? > Will there be guidelines? Definitely. I will reread the Fedora ones for a baseline. If there are any other sources anyone thinks are good, I'd be happy to reference them as well. > How about a mailing list for questions? That's a great idea. The marketing community can sponsor. Trademarks at opensolaris.org? > These details and information about how any of these rules are going > to change in support of the new effort is the critical information > that we need to provide. Agreed > > Thanks, > Michelle > > Sara Dornsife wrote: >> Joerg Schilling wrote: >>> Patrick Finch wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing >>>> with the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>>> >>>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk >>>> of confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>>> >>> >>> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >>> diesel oil product? >>> >> >> I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or >> Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM >> (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common >> practice and expected. >> >>> There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" >>> is not a product name but the name for a software base. >>> >>> J?rg >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org > From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 13 14:39:26 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:39:26 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> Message-ID: <4670640E.2070301@sun.com> Dirk Wetter wrote: > Hi Sara, Michelle, > > Am 13.06.07 22:44, michelle olson schrieb: >> Hi Sara, >> >> Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go to >> fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines >> and read about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. >> This is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I >> get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to >> 'stay tuned'. >> >> Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? >> Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How about a mailing >> list for questions? These details and information about how any of these >> rules are going to change in support of the new effort is the critical >> information that we need to provide. > > It's kind of off topic but since you and Sara seems to be reading this: if > you install SXDE/SXCR you get all over the place Solaris, not OpenSolaris > logos. That is also inconsistent and it is probably confusing everybody > outside Sun. That's perfectly reasonable. Solaris is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris. Sun does not (currently) ship a binary distribution called OpenSolaris. > If you install the community distribution OpenSuse you will see > logos/coporate look and feel of the community distribution Opensuse, but > not of Novell's commercial counter part SLED/SLES. Same with Fedora/RHEL. > > Isn't this the way it should be? 10 PRINT "OpenSolaris is not a distribution." 20 GOTO 10 :) cheers, steve (woohoo... I haven't written BASIC in years) -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 14:43:21 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:43:21 -0500 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> Message-ID: <467064F9.3030808@sun.com> > It's kind of off topic but since you and Sara seems to be reading this: if > you install SXDE/SXCR you get all over the place Solaris, not OpenSolaris > logos. That is also inconsistent and it is probably confusing everybody > outside Sun. > > If you install the community distribution OpenSuse you will see > logos/coporate look and feel of the community distribution Opensuse, but > not of Novell's commercial counter part SLED/SLES. Same with Fedora/RHEL. > > Isn't this the way it should be? > Not off topic actually as it speaks to the branding of the Sun distribution. This goes to the TM questions that Michelle was asking. I don't think we have answers yet, but where the OpenSolaris TM can and should be used are questions that we should all be asking. You are illustrating one of the places TMs are used. > > Cheers, > Dirk > > PS: RHEL= Red Hat Enterprise Linux > SLES/D= Suse Enterprise Server/Desktop > > >> Thanks, >> Michelle >> >> Sara Dornsife wrote: >> >>> Joerg Schilling wrote: >>> >>>> Patrick Finch wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>>>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing with >>>>> the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>>>> >>>>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>>>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk of >>>>> confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >>>> diesel oil product? >>>> >>>> >>> I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or >>> Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM >>> (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common >>> practice and expected. >>> >>> >>>> There are other similar cases. People just did learn that "OpenSolaris" >>>> is not a product name but the name for a software base. >>>> >>>> J?rg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >>> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ug-discuss mailing list >> ug-discuss at opensolaris.org >> > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 14:46:48 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:46:48 -0500 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> Message-ID: <467065C8.1060401@sun.com> > No, since at this point, Solaris Express is still a Sun product. And > in the case of SXDE, one you can buy support from Sun for. > > Fedora, in contrast, is not something you can buy support for from > RedHat, and is purposefully distanced from it. > > The only way what you suggest will work is if we actually have an > OpenSolaris distribution. But he is pointing out the full scope of the TM dilemma we need to resolve. I was thinking about where (if anywhere at all) the OpenSolaris TM would appear in any distro. If we are going to go ask Sun for broader usage rights to have the name for a distribution, we should outline every use possible. From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 15:06:10 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:06:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46705F42.8020600@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705F42.8020600@sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Jun 2007, Sara Dornsife wrote: > michelle olson wrote: > > > > Under what conditions? > > > > Let's open that up. I can act as an intermediary with Sun on this. What are > we looking for? .. Thanks Sara. In addition to exploring general usage guidelines, I'd like to suggest we speculate on the following (from a post made earlier today). This scenario, by contrast, would involve a specific-use kind of clearance. --Eric _______________________________________________ Subject: Re: Sponsor Project Indiana From: Eric Boutilier On Wed, 13 Jun 2007, Joerg Schilling wrote: > Alan Coopersmith wrote: > > > Patrick Finch wrote: > > > Are being a "pure community driven project" and "especially blessed by > > > Sun" mutually exclusive? > > > > They have been in the past - if Schillix, Belenix, Martux or Nexenta had > > asked to be able to use the OpenSolaris name, they would likely have > > been > > denied. That it's an option now seems to be because a Sun executive > > is > > pushing for this project. > > > > Is that good or bad? I don't know - but it's one of the issues that > > people > > think about when naming a distro "OpenSolaris". > > If Sun would name a distro "opensolaris" this would cause a big confusion > for many people. I totally agree, however, IMO, if the OpenSolaris Community were to name a distro OpenSolaris, it would not cause much confusion. My personal interpretation[1] of that kind of scenario is that we (the OpenSolaris Community) could do the following: - Follow the group voting procedures documented in the constitution. - Subsequently, if there is a positive result from the vote, collaborate with Sun (the Software Marketing group would be my guess) on terms. That is, for the specific use of the word OpenSolaris that was voted on. ... Eric 1. Which is to say, not Sun's interpretation nor anyone else's. _______________________________________________ From dirk.wetter at drwetter.org Wed Jun 13 15:52:30 2007 From: dirk.wetter at drwetter.org (Dirk Wetter) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:52:30 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: <4670640E.2070301@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> <4670640E.2070301@sun.com> Message-ID: <4670752E.40209@drwetter.org> Am 13.06.07 23:39, Stephen Lau schrieb: > Dirk Wetter wrote: >> Hi Sara, Michelle, >> >> Am 13.06.07 22:44, michelle olson schrieb: >>> Hi Sara, >>> >>> Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go to >>> fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines >>> and read about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. >>> This is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I >>> get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to >>> 'stay tuned'. >>> >>> Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? >>> Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How about a mailing >>> list for questions? These details and information about how any of these >>> rules are going to change in support of the new effort is the critical >>> information that we need to provide. >> >> It's kind of off topic but since you and Sara seems to be reading >> this: if >> you install SXDE/SXCR you get all over the place Solaris, not OpenSolaris >> logos. That is also inconsistent and it is probably confusing everybody >> outside Sun. > > That's perfectly reasonable. Solaris is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris. Sorry Stephen, but RHEL is also Red Hat's distribution of Fedora Core. That was my point you just underlined. Your argument should have been "SX?E is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris". > Sun does not (currently) ship a binary distribution called OpenSolaris. If there is a COMMUNITY distribution there should IMHO be no logos of Sun in there unless want to insinuate "hey, we open sourced our code, but it's still ours and may be it'll be in the future". Or just don't name it "community" and don't host discussions on that on opensolaris.org. This all independent of what happens with Indiana. It kind of reminded me on the 'The Register' article Ian quoted in his blog. Sun is confusing everybody. :-) You should get the naming and apperance better and may be a little bit more consistent in what steak comes from which cow and stands on which pasture ground. Hopefully recent discussions bring this also a leap forward. Cheers, Dirk >> If you install the community distribution OpenSuse you will see >> logos/coporate look and feel of the community distribution Opensuse, but >> not of Novell's commercial counter part SLED/SLES. Same with Fedora/RHEL. >> >> Isn't this the way it should be? > > 10 PRINT "OpenSolaris is not a distribution." > 20 GOTO 10 > > :) Hopefully there's no serious code you've written like this anywhere ;-) [SCNR, that was just a too good invitation :-) ] > > cheers, > steve > (woohoo... I haven't written BASIC in years) -- Dirk Wetter @ Dr. Wetter IT Consulting http://drwetter.org Beratung IT-Sicherheit + Open Source Key fingerprint = 2AD6 BE0F 9863 C82D 21B3 64E5 C967 34D8 11B7 C62F - "We're Germans and we use Unix. That's a combination of two demographic groups known to have no sense of humour whatsoever." From michelle.olson at sun.com Wed Jun 13 16:01:25 2007 From: michelle.olson at sun.com (michelle olson) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:01:25 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46705F42.8020600@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705F42.8020600@sun.com> Message-ID: <46707745.9080202@sun.com> Hi, Sara Dornsife wrote: > michelle olson wrote: >> Hi Sara, >> >> Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go >> to fedora web site >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines and read >> about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. This >> is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I >> get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message >> to 'stay tuned'. >> >> Will we be fixing that? > > Yes Cool, I know we have fan buttons, we could at least update that with a live link now, I think. > >> Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? > > To a point. The TM will always be protected. Not only because it > belongs to Sun, but because it is the right thing to do. Can you be any more specific about 'to a point'? If you can't elaborate today, that is fine, I think it is important to just let folks know that there will be some new opportunity to use the trademark if that is coming. > >> Under what conditions? > > Let's open that up. I can act as an intermediary with Sun on this. > What are we looking for? Awesome, I really appreciate your help to do this. For my part, I think folks today who write documents in support of OpenSolaris can title them 'XYZ Debugging Guide for the OpenSolaris Project'. It would be nice if they could put the actual, colorful, wordmark on the document. This is just an example, tons of folks have asked me for branded templates for content they write to support the project, but I haven't provided that because of the trademark issue. For another case, I think it would be nice incentive for folks to contribute to the OpenSolaris distribution if they knew that they themselves could use the trademark to promote their own work. Maybe that is crazy-talk, but that is really what I've been thinking about. So, maybe core contributors get rights to use?...back to the dang contributor list! :) > >> Will there be guidelines? > > Definitely. I will reread the Fedora ones for a baseline. If there are > any other sources anyone thinks are good, I'd be happy to reference > them as well. Great, thanks. Guidelines for the kinds of cases above (writing a document, passing out distro copies) that were global for opensolaris would be great. I'm happy to help out with reviews of the document. > >> How about a mailing list for questions? > > That's a great idea. The marketing community can sponsor. > Trademarks at opensolaris.org? Sounds good to me. I think we just need to request this from website discuss nowadays. > >> These details and information about how any of these rules are going >> to change in support of the new effort is the critical information >> that we need to provide. > > Agreed Cool. -Michelle > >> >> Thanks, >> Michelle >> >> Sara Dornsife wrote: >>> Joerg Schilling wrote: >>>> Patrick Finch wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Some confusion for some people perhaps, but it is possible to >>>>> communicate a change. For the last 2 years I have been dealing >>>>> with the confusion that "OpenSolaris" is not a bootable OS. >>>>> >>>>> I can understand that there might be objections to naming a distro >>>>> "OpenSolaris" for other reasons, but I don't accept that the risk >>>>> of confusing people should disqualify the idea. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >>>> diesel oil product? >>>> >>> >>> I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or >>> Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or >>> SugarCRM (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It >>> is common practice and expected. >>> >>>> There are other similar cases. People just did learn that >>>> "OpenSolaris" >>>> is not a product name but the name for a software base. >>>> >>>> J?rg >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> opensolaris-mktg mailing list >>> opensolaris-mktg at opensolaris.org >> From stevel at sun.com Wed Jun 13 16:13:42 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:13:42 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: <4670752E.40209@drwetter.org> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> <4670640E.2070301@sun.com> <4670752E.40209@drwetter.org> Message-ID: <46707A26.4090002@sun.com> Dirk Wetter wrote: > Am 13.06.07 23:39, Stephen Lau schrieb: >> Dirk Wetter wrote: >>> Hi Sara, Michelle, >>> >>> Am 13.06.07 22:44, michelle olson schrieb: >>>> Hi Sara, >>>> >>>> Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go to >>>> fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines >>>> and read about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. >>>> This is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I >>>> get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to >>>> 'stay tuned'. >>>> >>>> Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? >>>> Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How about a mailing >>>> list for questions? These details and information about how any of these >>>> rules are going to change in support of the new effort is the critical >>>> information that we need to provide. >>> It's kind of off topic but since you and Sara seems to be reading >>> this: if >>> you install SXDE/SXCR you get all over the place Solaris, not OpenSolaris >>> logos. That is also inconsistent and it is probably confusing everybody >>> outside Sun. >> That's perfectly reasonable. Solaris is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris. > > Sorry Stephen, but RHEL is also Red Hat's distribution of Fedora Core. That > was my point you just underlined. So why do you expect OpenSolaris logos in Solaris? I don't recall seeing Fedora logos in RHEL (maybe I'm wrong though?) > Your argument should have been "SX?E is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris". SXDE/SXCE are merely marketing labels for the product named Solaris, which is Sun's distribution of OpenSolaris. >> Sun does not (currently) ship a binary distribution called OpenSolaris. > > If there is a COMMUNITY distribution there should IMHO be no logos of Sun > in there unless want to insinuate "hey, we open sourced our code, but it's > still ours and may be it'll be in the future". Or just don't name it > "community" and don't host discussions on that on opensolaris.org. This all > independent of what happens with Indiana. Agreed. But SX?E is not that community distribution. > It kind of reminded me on the 'The Register' article Ian quoted in his > blog. Sun is confusing everybody. :-) You should get the naming and > apperance better and may be a little bit more consistent in what steak > comes from which cow and stands on which pasture ground. I completely agree. The messaging is confusing - but the actual original message we all agreed on is perfectly clear. In this case, shoot the messenger. > Hopefully recent discussions bring this also a leap forward. I hope for that too. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From binarycrusader at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 14:40:24 2007 From: binarycrusader at gmail.com (Shawn Walker) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:40:24 -0500 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana / OT In-Reply-To: <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <4670571A.1010005@sun.com> <46705ED9.1010802@drwetter.org> Message-ID: On 13/06/07, Dirk Wetter wrote: > Hi Sara, Michelle, > > Am 13.06.07 22:44, michelle olson schrieb: > > Hi Sara, > > > > Your common practice is fine, let's take it a step further. When I go to > > fedora web site http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines > > and read about the trademark usage, I get information that makes sense. > > This is not the case when I go to http://opensolaris.org/os/trademark/ I > > get information that is out of date, promises not kept and a message to > > 'stay tuned'. > > > > Will we be fixing that? Will parties be authorized to use the trademark? > > Under what conditions? Will there be guidelines? How about a mailing > > list for questions? These details and information about how any of these > > rules are going to change in support of the new effort is the critical > > information that we need to provide. > > It's kind of off topic but since you and Sara seems to be reading this: if > you install SXDE/SXCR you get all over the place Solaris, not OpenSolaris > logos. That is also inconsistent and it is probably confusing everybody > outside Sun. > > If you install the community distribution OpenSuse you will see > logos/coporate look and feel of the community distribution Opensuse, but > not of Novell's commercial counter part SLED/SLES. Same with Fedora/RHEL. > > Isn't this the way it should be? No, since at this point, Solaris Express is still a Sun product. And in the case of SXDE, one you can buy support from Sun for. Fedora, in contrast, is not something you can buy support for from RedHat, and is purposefully distanced from it. The only way what you suggest will work is if we actually have an OpenSolaris distribution. -- "Less is only more where more is no good." --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst binarycrusader at gmail.com - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Wed Jun 13 23:43:47 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:43:47 +0900 Subject: [ug-discuss] [Fwd: [program-team] Links from OGB discussion at today's meeting] Message-ID: <4670E3A3.1090504@Sun.COM> fyi: see below: Alan gave a really nice summary this morning in p-team about some new documents from the OGB that we ought to be aware of. I'll check in next week with an updated merger plan for our community and also about the proposal I'm sending to Sun for some User Group resources. Jim --- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [program-team] Links from OGB discussion at today's meeting Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:59:53 -0700 From: Alan Coopersmith To: program-team at opensolaris.org Here's some of the things I mentioned today: - The OGB Community, including the Constitution & Policies: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/ogb/ - the new Project Creation Policy: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/ogb/policies/project-instantiation.txt - the current draft of the Community Guidelines for running communities: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000918.html (and for those who were late or not there, what I talked about was pretty much from the outline at: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-June/000915.html From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 01:11:31 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:11:31 +0900 Subject: [ug-discuss] Advocacy Merger -- Step One: List Message-ID: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> Hi ... As we begin to merge the User Group Community, the Marketing Community, and the Immigrants Community into the new Advocacy Community Group, I think a good way to start is to merge the three main discuss lists first so we don't have to keep cc'ing three lists while we work on all this. So, we'd be merging immigrants-discuss, opensolaris-mktg, and ug-discuss into advocacy-discuss. The new Advocacy Community Group will be able to open new lists for new purposes over time, of course, but we need one general discuss list for community-wide issues. We could potentially be the largest community on the site, so a central list is needed. After the list merger, we'd probably give a short period of time and then archive the three old lists and move on from there to setting up the community space, moving documents, writing new stuff, doing the re-directs, etc. Everyone ok with merging the lists as a first step? Jim -- Jim Grisanzio http://blogs.sun.com/jimgris -- From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 01:23:12 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:23:12 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Advocacy Merger -- Step One: List In-Reply-To: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> References: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4670FAF0.5060706@sun.com> I think it's a very good idea. Patrick Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Hi ... > > As we begin to merge the User Group Community, the Marketing Community, > and the Immigrants Community into the new Advocacy Community Group, I > think a good way to start is to merge the three main discuss lists first > so we don't have to keep cc'ing three lists while we work on all this. > > So, we'd be merging immigrants-discuss, opensolaris-mktg, and ug-discuss > into advocacy-discuss. The new Advocacy Community Group will be able to > open new lists for new purposes over time, of course, but we need one > general discuss list for community-wide issues. We could potentially be > the largest community on the site, so a central list is needed. After > the list merger, we'd probably give a short period of time and then > archive the three old lists and move on from there to setting up the > community space, moving documents, writing new stuff, doing the > re-directs, etc. > > Everyone ok with merging the lists as a first step? > > Jim From Simon.Phipps at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 02:53:05 2007 From: Simon.Phipps at Sun.COM (Simon Phipps) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:53:05 +0100 Subject: [ug-discuss] Advocacy Merger -- Step One: List In-Reply-To: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> References: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <687F4533-1DC0-4B01-9AB2-24758BF03E1F@Sun.COM> On Jun 14, 2007, at 09:11, Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Hi ... > > As we begin to merge the User Group Community, the Marketing > Community, and the Immigrants Community into the new Advocacy > Community Group, I think a good way to start is to merge the three > main discuss lists first so we don't have to keep cc'ing three > lists while we work on all this. > > So, we'd be merging immigrants-discuss, opensolaris-mktg, and ug- > discuss into advocacy-discuss. The new Advocacy Community Group > will be able to open new lists for new purposes over time, of > course, but we need one general discuss list for community-wide > issues. We could potentially be the largest community on the site, > so a central list is needed. After the list merger, we'd probably > give a short period of time and then archive the three old lists > and move on from there to setting up the community space, moving > documents, writing new stuff, doing the re-directs, etc. > > Everyone ok with merging the lists as a first step? Assuming that the archives will be preserved, that seems a great move. We can then establish whatever additional lists the new Community Group needs as it becomes obvious they are needed. S. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2494 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 02:56:01 2007 From: Patrick.Finch at Sun.COM (Patrick Finch) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:56:01 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <46710bd9.v0+nfgP6ruIpufIx%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> <46710bd9.v0+nfgP6ruIpufIx%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <467110B1.6050507@sun.com> Joerg Schilling wrote: > Sara Dornsife wrote: > >>> Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for >>> diesel oil product? >>> >> I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or >> Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM >> (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common >> practice and expected. > > If there is only one single product from a specific source, this is no problem. > If the differences are very small or if only a single variant exists for > a distro (as e.g. with OpenOffice) things are easy. OpenSolaris is different. > > J?rg > That's incorrect about OpenOffice.org OpenOffice.org has guidelines for different distributions, (some, but not all of which are ports or localisations) at http://distribution.openoffice.org/ So OpenOffice.org is the community, the code base, its own distribution and has many other distributions, including OxygenOffice Professional, NeoOffice, 602Office, Jambo OpenOffice, RomanianOffice, RedOffice etc. Patrick From venkytv at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 03:18:11 2007 From: venkytv at gmail.com (Venky) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:48:11 +0530 Subject: [ug-discuss] Proposal: belenix-discuss mailing list Message-ID: <20070614101811.GD4346@spikesource.com> I would like to propose the creation of a belenix-discuss mailing list which would serve as the main list for general user questions and discussions regarding the BeleniX distribution. Right now, most of the BeleniX discussions happen on the Bangalore OSUG mailing list, which makes it inconvenient for people outside the Bangalore OpenSolaris community to participate. As per the new guidelines, a request for a mailing list would need to be endorsed by one or more communities. The Advocacy community (which this community will be merged into shortly) would seem the one best suited for this proposal. Venky. From shivakumar.gn at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 03:41:22 2007 From: shivakumar.gn at gmail.com (G N S) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:11:22 +0530 Subject: [ug-discuss] Proposal: belenix-discuss mailing list In-Reply-To: <20070614101811.GD4346@spikesource.com> References: <20070614101811.GD4346@spikesource.com> Message-ID: <319ee2b10706140341q322e45dapea3884a2cc1e8eca@mail.gmail.com> On 6/14/07, Venky wrote: > I would like to propose the creation of a belenix-discuss mailing > list which would serve as the main list for general user > questions and discussions regarding the BeleniX distribution. > A dedicated list for belenix related discussion is required. > As per the new guidelines, a request for a mailing list would > need to be endorsed by one or more communities. The Advocacy > community (which this community will be merged into shortly) > would seem the one best suited for this proposal. > But if it is just a mailing list that is required, think it over if it has to be on opensolaris.org or outside ! regards Shiv From venkytv at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 04:10:32 2007 From: venkytv at gmail.com (Venky) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:40:32 +0530 Subject: [ug-discuss] Proposal: belenix-discuss mailing list In-Reply-To: <319ee2b10706140341q322e45dapea3884a2cc1e8eca@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070614101811.GD4346@spikesource.com> <319ee2b10706140341q322e45dapea3884a2cc1e8eca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20070614111032.GP30074@spikesource.com> > >As per the new guidelines, a request for a mailing list would > >need to be endorsed by one or more communities. The Advocacy > >community (which this community will be merged into shortly) > >would seem the one best suited for this proposal. > > But if it is just a mailing list that is required, think it over if it > has to be on opensolaris.org or outside ! The first place a new user would look for a BeleniX discussion list would be on opensolaris.org. It would also emphasize the point that the BeleniX community is part of the larger OpenSolaris community. I actually think it makes a lot of sense for each of the OpenSolaris distros to have a xxxx-discuss mailing list hosted on opensolaris.org. Venky. From Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 07:11:52 2007 From: Sara.Dornsife at Sun.COM (Sara Dornsife) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:11:52 -0500 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Advocacy Merger -- Step One: List In-Reply-To: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> References: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <46714CA8.2000700@sun.com> Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Sara Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Hi ... > > As we begin to merge the User Group Community, the Marketing > Community, and the Immigrants Community into the new Advocacy > Community Group, I think a good way to start is to merge the three > main discuss lists first so we don't have to keep cc'ing three lists > while we work on all this. > > So, we'd be merging immigrants-discuss, opensolaris-mktg, and > ug-discuss into advocacy-discuss. The new Advocacy Community Group > will be able to open new lists for new purposes over time, of course, > but we need one general discuss list for community-wide issues. We > could potentially be the largest community on the site, so a central > list is needed. After the list merger, we'd probably give a short > period of time and then archive the three old lists and move on from > there to setting up the community space, moving documents, writing new > stuff, doing the re-directs, etc. > > Everyone ok with merging the lists as a first step? > > Jim From stevel at sun.com Thu Jun 14 08:43:27 2007 From: stevel at sun.com (Stephen Lau) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:43:27 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Advocacy Merger -- Step One: List In-Reply-To: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> References: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4671621F.6010709@sun.com> Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Hi ... > > As we begin to merge the User Group Community, the Marketing Community, > and the Immigrants Community into the new Advocacy Community Group, I > think a good way to start is to merge the three main discuss lists first > so we don't have to keep cc'ing three lists while we work on all this. > > So, we'd be merging immigrants-discuss, opensolaris-mktg, and ug-discuss > into advocacy-discuss. The new Advocacy Community Group will be able to > open new lists for new purposes over time, of course, but we need one > general discuss list for community-wide issues. We could potentially be > the largest community on the site, so a central list is needed. After > the list merger, we'd probably give a short period of time and then > archive the three old lists and move on from there to setting up the > community space, moving documents, writing new stuff, doing the > re-directs, etc. > > Everyone ok with merging the lists as a first step? > > Jim Makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for starting this step Jim. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // stevel at sun.com | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development From brian.gupta at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 12:16:00 2007 From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:16:00 -0400 Subject: [ug-discuss] Proposal: belenix-discuss mailing list In-Reply-To: <20070614111032.GP30074@spikesource.com> References: <20070614101811.GD4346@spikesource.com> <319ee2b10706140341q322e45dapea3884a2cc1e8eca@mail.gmail.com> <20070614111032.GP30074@spikesource.com> Message-ID: <5b5090780706141216g72c581f6ra97ffaad34c7dfa6@mail.gmail.com> > > I actually think it makes a lot of sense for each of the > OpenSolaris distros to have a xxxx-discuss mailing list hosted on > opensolaris.org. I wholeheartly agree. Check with Eric B. as I think he is thinking along the same lines. Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Thu Jun 14 12:49:19 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:49:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Proposal: belenix-discuss mailing list In-Reply-To: <319ee2b10706140341q322e45dapea3884a2cc1e8eca@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070614101811.GD4346@spikesource.com> <319ee2b10706140341q322e45dapea3884a2cc1e8eca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2007, G N S wrote: > On 6/14/07, Venky wrote: >> I would like to propose the creation of a belenix-discuss mailing >> list which would serve as the main list for general user >> questions and discussions regarding the BeleniX distribution. Venky, +1 to this, and, as you said, any other distro that wants the Advocacy Community to sponsor an opensolaris.org mailing list. > > A dedicated list for belenix related discussion is required. > >> As per the new guidelines, a request for a mailing list would >> need to be endorsed by one or more communities. The Advocacy >> community (which this community will be merged into shortly) >> would seem the one best suited for this proposal. >> > > But if it is just a mailing list that is required, think it over if it > has to be on opensolaris.org or outside ! > > regards > Shiv Shiv -- You didn't say what you are concerned about. I'm guessing that you're afraid that OpenSolaris isn't a "real" opensource community? Eric From Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de Thu Jun 14 02:35:21 2007 From: Joerg.Schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:35:21 +0200 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Sponsor Project Indiana In-Reply-To: <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> References: <46661329.5090306@Sun.COM> <20070606041934.GC567016@jurassic-x4600.Eng.Sun.COM> <46666C4D.10400@sun.com> <4666C2BE.2060009@sun.com> <4666C70C.9020006@sun.com> <4666D2DD.3090909@sun.com> <4670076c.M1q1FFZbzxBrl3aX%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <46703E82.5040603@sun.com> <46704e72.KWNtKggnh9CehZxl%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> <467051BB.3040904@sun.com> Message-ID: <46710bd9.v0+nfgP6ruIpufIx%Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> Sara Dornsife wrote: > > Do you like to recommend to use the name "diesel" as brand name for > > diesel oil product? > > > > I don't know about that, but I do know that when I go to Fedora or > Ubuntu or OpenOffice or Netbeans or Eclipse or PostgreSQL or SugarCRM > (and so on), I do download something by the same name. It is common > practice and expected. If there is only one single product from a specific source, this is no problem. If the differences are very small or if only a single variant exists for a distro (as e.g. with OpenOffice) things are easy. OpenSolaris is different. J?rg -- EMail:joerg at schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J?rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js at cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) schilling at fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily From shivakumar.gn at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 22:24:58 2007 From: shivakumar.gn at gmail.com (G N S) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:54:58 +0530 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: Proposal: belenix-discuss mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <20070614101811.GD4346@spikesource.com> <319ee2b10706140341q322e45dapea3884a2cc1e8eca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <319ee2b10706142224n7899d853j2609b18e5f21cf22@mail.gmail.com> On 6/15/07, Eric Boutilier wrote: > Shiv -- You didn't say what you are concerned about. I'm guessing that > you're afraid that OpenSolaris isn't a "real" opensource community? > Not at all. I do not have any doubts on those lines. Just a little weary of the bureaucracy that is seen due to lengthy discussions on governance, policies, who should recommend, voting, etc. These are very important for the kind of scale and multiple stake-holders that opensolaris.org has. But I sometimes see lengthy discussions and slow decision making on *relatively inconsequent issues* (IMHO) as well. Using an independent mailing list helps cut all this and remain focussed on the required tasks. I am not *against* the idea. No doubt it has its advantages. Ease of community members to seamlessly get in is a huge plus. Just wanted to through this point for consideration. warm regards Shiv From Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM Fri Jun 15 06:50:19 2007 From: Eric.Boutilier at Sun.COM (Eric Boutilier) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 08:50:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [ug-discuss] Proposal: belenix-discuss mailing list In-Reply-To: <319ee2b10706142224n7899d853j2609b18e5f21cf22@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070614101811.GD4346@spikesource.com> <319ee2b10706140341q322e45dapea3884a2cc1e8eca@mail.gmail.com> <319ee2b10706142224n7899d853j2609b18e5f21cf22@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jun 2007, G N S wrote: > On 6/15/07, Eric Boutilier wrote: >> Shiv -- You didn't say what you are concerned about. I'm guessing that >> you're afraid that OpenSolaris isn't a "real" opensource community? >> > > Not at all. I do not have any doubts on those lines. > > Just a little weary of the bureaucracy that is seen due to lengthy > discussions on governance, policies, who should recommend, voting, > etc. > These are very important for the kind of scale and multiple > stake-holders that opensolaris.org has. But I sometimes see lengthy > discussions and slow decision making on *relatively inconsequent > issues* (IMHO) as well. > > Using an independent mailing list helps cut all this and remain > focussed on the required tasks. > I am not *against* the idea. No doubt it has its advantages. Ease of > community members to seamlessly get in is a huge plus. > > Just wanted to through this point for consideration. > Ah, I see, and agree mostly. Just one comment regarding your (IMO) overgeneralization of decision making slowness though. Going forward now, agile decision making will prevail (or not) on a CG (Community Group) by CG basis, not on an OpenSolaris-wide basis (and definitely not on an OGB basis). Reason being, there's pervasive freedom and independence built into the constitution in that regard, allowing each Community Group to independently self-govern in almost any way they see fit. Eric From Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM Fri Jun 15 07:25:05 2007 From: Jim.Grisanzio at Sun.COM (Jim Grisanzio) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:25:05 +0900 Subject: [ug-discuss] Proposal: belenix-discuss mailing list In-Reply-To: <20070614101811.GD4346@spikesource.com> References: <20070614101811.GD4346@spikesource.com> Message-ID: <4672A141.8090809@sun.com> +1 Venky wrote: > I would like to propose the creation of a belenix-discuss mailing > list which would serve as the main list for general user > questions and discussions regarding the BeleniX distribution. > > Right now, most of the BeleniX discussions happen on the > Bangalore OSUG mailing list, which makes it inconvenient for > people outside the Bangalore OpenSolaris community to > participate. > > As per the new guidelines, a request for a mailing list would > need to be endorsed by one or more communities. The Advocacy > community (which this community will be merged into shortly) > would seem the one best suited for this proposal. > > Venky. > _______________________________________________ > ug-discuss mailing list > ug-discuss at opensolaris.org From Teresa.Giacomini at Sun.COM Fri Jun 15 12:03:35 2007 From: Teresa.Giacomini at Sun.COM (Teresa.Giacomini at Sun.COM) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:03:35 -0700 Subject: [ug-discuss] Re: [osol-mktg] Advocacy Merger -- Step One: List In-Reply-To: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> References: <4670F833.30505@Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4672E287.1010501@Sun.COM> Sounds good to me. Jim Grisanzio wrote: > Hi ... > > As we begin to merge the User Group Community, the Marketing > Community, and the Immigrants Community into the new Advocacy > Community Group, I think a good way to start is to merge the three > main discuss lists first so we don't have to keep cc'ing three lists > while we work on all this. > > So, we'd be merging immigrants-discuss, opensolaris-mktg, and > ug-discuss into advocacy-discuss. The new Advocacy Community Group > will be able to open new lists for new purposes over time, of course, > but we need one general discuss list for community-wide issues. We > could potentially be the largest community on the site, so a central > list is needed. After the list merger, we'd probably give a short > period of time and then archive the three old lists and move on from > there to setting up the community space, moving documents, writing new > stuff, doing the re-directs, etc. > > Everyone ok with merging the lists as a first step? > > Jim From isaac at sun.com Sun Jun 17 15:00:32 2007 From: isaac at sun.com (Isaac R.) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:00:32 -0400 Subject: [ug-discuss] The 1st New York's {Open}Solaris Community User Group meeting Message-ID: <4675AF00.4010103@sun.com> Announcing - The 1st New York's {Open}Solaris Community User Group meeting. It is finally here! The New York OpenSolaris User's Group (NYCOSUG) will be holding it's first meeting on Wednesday, June 27 at the Sun offices in midtown, New York City. You are cordially invited to take part in this event. The featured topic will be "What is OpenSolaris", and yet, since this is our first meeting we will also talk about future plans and other organizational matters. Meeting will start at 6pm. We will also be giving out media DVDs so that participants could install an OpenSolaris-based distro. If you bring a laptop, we'll help you along the way. BACKGROUND: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/nycosug/purpose_/ DETAILS: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/os_user_groups/nycosug/1meeting/ The New York {Open}Solaris User Group has been established to connect members of the community interested in OpenSolaris and Solaris, and to grow the OpenSolaris community in the New York area. All are welcome - developers, open-source contributors, system administrators, architects, and any other interested IT/technology professionals. WHEN: 1st (inaugural) meeting, Wednesday, June 27, 6pm - 8pm WHERE: Sun Microsystems, Inc 101 Park Avenue, 4th Floor - GRAMMERCY CONFERENCE ROOM New York, NY 10178 MAP: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&om=1&msid=105589691337386242503.000001133ae715ae9ab4a&ll=40.753775,-73.978457&spn=0.006681,0.014012&z=16 FEE: $0 REGISTRATION/QUESTIONS: Simply send an email to nyosug-registration-ext at sun.com Please include: - your name - your role/what you do - (optional) employer - (optional) whether you would like to present on a topic at an upcoming/future meeting Food/beverages will be provided